US officials call on Apple, Google, others to help stop smartphone theft

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 68
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    One measure I'd still like to see is a need to require a passcode to turn off the device and make holding down the Home and Sleep buttons only result in a hard reboot. As well as a passcode to access Settings or to alter certain settings, like Find My iPhone, AirPlane Mode, or WiFi. This way a thief can't easily disable the device's ability to be located. They could simply stick it in a lead lined bag or faraday cage but it would help stop some of the less though out crimes of opportunity.

    Actually such measures would do nothing in the states mentioned. Why? because the cops in many jurisdictions don't even bother pursuing criminals. The problem is simply one that the state and local governments have created theme selves by turing a blind eye to criminal organizations and the freelance criminal. In the case of NYC it very well appears to be intentional as a way to instill fear into the local population. Let the criminal element run free and you create a climate that allows for authoritarian control of the local population.

    In the end all the state is doing here is make a media play so it looks like they are doing something. The people promoting this know damn well it will have zero impact on crime.
  • Reply 22 of 68
    ifij775ifij775 Posts: 470member
    I suspect there are legal ramifications and protocols for this process, but I wonder how advantageous setting up a system to do this would be for Apple. I suspect it is more trouble than its worth.
  • Reply 23 of 68
    geekdadgeekdad Posts: 1,131member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post





    I can't imagine the telcos being to jazzed with keeping track of a blacklist when activating or a customer moves a SIM from one phone into a freshly commandeered device. The secondhand market for phones is so big, anyone could sell a phone and then claim it stolen shortly after. Would be a dick move but they are everywhere.


    The stolen IMEI database would be so easy to do and almost instantaneous. So many things happen during activation that this would almost be invisible and take milliseconds to accomplish. The carriers already have this information so it should be easier to put into place.


     


    http://imei-number.com/why-is-imei-number-important/

  • Reply 24 of 68


    Half the time the cops won't respond to a "find my phone" anyway... What more do they want?

  • Reply 25 of 68
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

    and activate it how? The carrier has a list of IMEI numbers and what device it belongs to....


    1. Phone reported stolen...by phone or online in carriers website account settings


    2. The IMEI number is then listed as stolen and not allowed to be authenticated on to the carriers network.


    3. All carries have to be onboard with not activating stolen IMEI numbers. Can't just flash it to another carrier.



     


    Isn't that the idea? First, they're not onboard with that, second, it's activated because the IMEI no longer reports as the one that was stolen.





    Originally Posted by RichL View Post

    Jailbreaking doesn't allow you to change the IMEI of a phone. The IMEI isn't stored in a location that's writable from iOS.


     


    Funny. Apple did it themselves in 1.1.1.

  • Reply 26 of 68
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Actually such measures would do nothing in the states mentioned. Why? because the cops in many jurisdictions don't even bother pursuing criminals. The problem is simply one that the state and local governments have created theme selves by turing a blind eye to criminal organizations and the freelance criminal. In the case of NYC it very well appears to be intentional as a way to instill fear into the local population. Let the criminal element run free and you create a climate that allows for authoritarian control of the local population.



    In the end all the state is doing here is make a media play so it looks like they are doing something. The people promoting this know damn well it will have zero impact on crime.


     


    It's lawmakers responding to their constituents in a way that shifts the blame away from them. Naturally, the blame really belongs with both the criminals and the "victims" who are often unaware of their surroundings. Now let's talk about open carry and an armed citizenry.

  • Reply 27 of 68
    wisdomseedwisdomseed Posts: 141member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Did you notice how these are the most liberal and crime riddled states in the union. They have policies in both states that directly promote or lead to crime so it is no surprise that they are blaming somebody else for a problem they created.



    One of the most effective and proven methods of crime control is to simply kill the criminals. Try and hang em. Why this is so difficult for liberals to accept is beyond me. Certainly in a state like NY that could lead to hanging half the population of a city like New York City but it would in fact solve a lot of problems.



    Even is hanging isn't good enough for them turning a blind eye to criminal activity has never resulted in a situation getting better. What the states are proposing here does nothing to get the criminal element off the street and as such doesn't help the honest population one bit. Allowing such intimidation to go forward while the state turns a blind eye to the problems they have caused is pretty disgusting actually.


    It is not nearly as simple as you would suggest, nor is the colloration of liberalism and crime. If anything it is poverty and crime. So you may as well say, if you give people enough money, they will not commit crime. While that is true, it isn't feasable. Just like it is not feasble to simply kill criminals. I would attempt to explain it to you, but having been on the internet for a minute, I know that anyone who would take such an olympic sized long jump to the wrong conclusion is not someone who can be convinced by facts, reality or the many nuances they involve. 

  • Reply 28 of 68
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,482member
    geekdad wrote: »
    The stolen IMEI database would be so easy to do and almost instantaneous. So many things happen during activation that this would almost be invisible and take milliseconds to accomplish.

    http://imei-number.com/why-is-imei-number-important/

    Lists would have to be maintained across carriers, no? How would a carrier know the difference between someone who loses a phone and someone who just says they lost the phone? I wouldn't want to get in the middle of that.

    I'm not opposed to the idea but first I'd like to see what the cost per device and plan and municipality would be. Bricking a stolen or lost/stolen phone won't get it returned to me. I suppose those doing the finding would be more apt to return it to the owner IF they knew it would be bricked or not able to be activated.

    How bouts carriers make it a paid for protection service and see how the market and law enforcement responds before wholesale implementation.

    Edit: Sheesh, this thread is about to jump its rails.
  • Reply 29 of 68
    geekdadgeekdad Posts: 1,131member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Isn't that the idea? First, they're not onboard with that, second, it's activated because the IMEI no longer reports as the one that was stolen.


     


    Funny. Apple did it themselves in 1.1.1.



    No you are missing the point. Do you think the phone makers agree?


    If the phone is reported stolen then the IMEI number becomes inactive on all carriers. You cannot activate the phone. You cannot change the IMEI number so it is perfect for this purpose. The carriers already have this capability now. If you suspend service on one of your lines on your account....


    So they are going about this the wrong way. Instead of making this a phone manufacturers issue it should be a carrier issue....they have all the info needed to get the job done.


    More info on IMEI


    http://www.knowyourmobile.com/glossary/imei-number

  • Reply 30 of 68
    thebuddathebudda Posts: 29member


    How about for this, and other minor crimes for that matter, have some serious consequences for the actions to the offenders to deter future behavior. The burden shouldn't be on the manufacturers or the victims, it should be on the rears of the criminals. Unlike feel-good rehabilitation programs or public service or various BS programs, public bamboo lashings work & would save tax payers tons of money.

  • Reply 31 of 68
    geekdadgeekdad Posts: 1,131member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post





    Lists would have to be maintained across carriers, no? How would a carrier know the difference between someone who loses a phone and someone who just says they lost the phone? I wouldn't want to get in the middle of that.



    I'm not opposed to the idea but first I'd like to see what the cost per device and plan and municipality would be. Bricking a stolen or lost/stolen phone won't get it returned to me. I suppose those doing the finding would be more apt to return it to the owner IF they knew it would be bricked or not able to be activated.



    How bouts carriers make it a paid for protection service and see how the market and law enforcement responds before wholesale implementation.



    Edit: Sheesh, this thread is about to jump its rails.


    there are some kinks to work out as you point out. People report their phones stolen all the time to get insurance replacements. Don't know how to stop that.....


    But if you knew you could not activate a stolen phone then it might deter it from being stolen......


    I don't know how to get it recovered once it is stolen....


    But if the legislators really want to legislate something for stolen phones then why not make carriers do this for free?

  • Reply 32 of 68
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

    If the phone is reported stolen then the IMEI number becomes inactive on all carriers. You cannot activate the phone. 


     


    If the carrier in question agrees to ban IMEIs put onto some list somewhere. Yes. Otherwise it would obviously be possible.






    You cannot change the IMEI number



     


    So… liars, then?

  • Reply 33 of 68
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    You know what else would prevent thefts. Cops. In many cities there are few to know street cops anymore.
  • Reply 34 of 68
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Did you notice how these are the most liberal and crime riddled states in the union.


    ...One of the most effective and proven methods of crime control is to simply kill the criminals.


    While you were preoccupied with advocating death for stealing a phone, perhaps you failed to notice that both states are among the few who pay more into the federal coffers than they take, in stark contrast to a majority of Red states who frequently complain about them.  So in essence, NY and CA pay for Red states who can't pull their own weight, effectively welfare cases living off the successes of these two.


     


    Did you have a point in there somewhere, or do you just enjoy thoughts of seeing people die?

  • Reply 35 of 68
    ziadjkziadjk Posts: 55member
    I think the whole effort is a lost cause. If the government manages to pull something off with Apple, Google, etc. people will then whine and complain about their privacy.

    Besides, what happens if a person steals a phone and gives it to a friend or relative? Do the friends and relatives get in trouble?
    If not, what happens if I myself steal a phone and say it was given to me by someone else?

    Waste of time, in my opinion.
  • Reply 36 of 68
    geekdadgeekdad Posts: 1,131member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    If the carrier in question agrees to ban IMEIs put onto some list somewhere. Yes. Otherwise it would obviously be possible.


     


    So… liars, then?



    not sure...have you tried it? Does it work? IMEI numbers are tied to your phones serial model and description. Great point though...the IMEI numbers need to be more closely regulated or controlled. So this can be taken care of during the activation process. If your iphone (IMEI) is activated on a carrier. It cannot be activated on any other carrier unless it is released by the original carrier through your authorization. If you go to activate a stolen phone how does the IMEI number get created? How does it get the exact match to your serial number and phone number make model and so forth? Then when you try to activate it on a carrier that should be a red flag that this serial number model make and description does not match the IMEI. You should have some explaining to do.....

  • Reply 37 of 68
    fz750fz750 Posts: 14member
    I can't see why it's so difficult, just maintain a central DB of IMEI and block any to any operator that are reported as stolen..

    Can't be that difficult...

    Kevin

  • Reply 38 of 68
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ziadjk View Post



    I think the whole effort is a lost cause. If the government manages to pull something off with Apple, Google, etc. people will then whine and complain about their privacy.



    Besides, what happens if a person steals a phone and gives it to a friend or relative? Do the friends and relatives get in trouble?

    If not, what happens if I myself steal a phone and say it was given to me by someone else?



    Waste of time, in my opinion.


     


    Exactly. Let people demand it of product makers or competitiors if there are changes that can be made that may help. We are talking about theft, after all. People need to protect themselves before a theft is committed.

  • Reply 39 of 68
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by fz750 View Post

    I can't see why it's so difficult, just maintain a central DB of IMEI and block any to any operator that are reported as stolen..



    Can't be that difficult...


     


    You're talking about getting the telecoms to agree to something that isn't price collusion.


     


    Difficult doesn't even begin to describe it. image

  • Reply 40 of 68
    droidftwdroidftw Posts: 1,009member


    Doesn't the kill switch technology already exist?  If someone steals my android phone I have an app that can remotely turn on GPS to locate the phone, can take pictures with the cameras, and can wipe my phone to protect my data.  I'd assume iOS and Windows Phone also has these same basic features.


     


    What more do they want from Apple, Google, Microsoft, and Samsung?

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