The ONE thing I really loved about Apple was NO F-ING ADS.
Apple was the one company that didn't bombard their users with useless ads 24/7.
No they seem to plan ads everywhere (iRadio as well), this sucks so bad.
1. Apple patents a lot of stuff that they never use just license
2. Sounds like they have included a lot of non traditional ad uses. Like virtual gift cards.
I'd actually prefer it if they became their own Bitcoin exchange. The thing Bitcoin still lacks is the backing of a major bank or credit card company to simplify the dollars for BTC exchange process and Apple would be the perfect company to help herald in a new era of digital money. An iPhone or some other "i" device would be more trustworthy than all of the other hardware wallets that are currently being developed.
People could use their phones as easily and anonymously as paying cash and even get paid in cash for things like mowing lawns or cleaning the house (allowances).
C'mon, Apple help put the central banking system out of commission and we're golden!
Sadly...
Only half in jest... consider the homeless guy who dumps the Square Card Reader on his iPad -- instead, to process all his currency transactions with "iTunes Dollars" specie
But more than just a currency management system, it becomes a currency itself.
Consider Today:
You go to BestBuy or their online site and buy 3 iTunes gift cards for the kids -- paying with cash, credit or debit card.
You give or send the cards to the kids -- and they individually scratch and enter the code into their iTunes account.
Next month you pay the original credit card bill for the 3 gift cards with another set of transactions -- transfer money from savings to checking and online bill pay.
Consider Tomorrow:
You go online as above, and purchase "iTunes Dollars" for the total of the 3 original gift cards -- paying automatically with a charge (due in 30 days) to your iTunes account.
Separately, or as part of the original transaction, you distribute the gifts of "iTunes Dollars" directly to the kids individual iTunes accounts -- or through a combination of texts, emails, bumps, WiFi -- possibly scheduled through a calendar app. It's painless -- there is no exchange of physical cards, scratching and entering codes...
In 30 days, the original charge is due for payment in your iTunes account -- it can be paid by any iTunes Store credit you have in your account -- or charged to the credit card backing the account.
This example was just for buying and giving iTunes gift cards in the form of "iTunes Dollars"...
What if you could use these virtual dollars to buy other things... any things... food, clothing, gasoline, Disneyland passes...
For those who do not have a credit card backing their individual iTunes account, the account could be used as a virtual savings/checking/debit account -- possibly earning interest. It could be used to build credit history and establish a credit rating.
And the recipient of any of these "iTunes Dollars" could, in turn, regift them to friends and family…
As to collection and payment of taxes -- that is the responsibility of the seller of the goods -- not for the currency service.
Sent from my iPad
That was my point that the transfer of tokens, etc will become a currency. No credit card or bank is required. Basically, it becomes a bartering system.
The responsibility for taxes can be handled in some cases by the currency service. Tokens need to have a legal tender value for the transaction to be allowed and a percent is charged by the service based on that value. There is no reason why a VAT cannot be applied at that point, and the currency services pays it.
But more than just a currency management system, it becomes a currency itself.
Consider Today:
You go to BestBuy or their online site and buy 3 iTunes gift cards for the kids -- paying with cash, credit or debit card.
You give or send the cards to the kids -- and they individually scratch and enter the code into their iTunes account.
Next month you pay the original credit card bill for the 3 gift cards with another set of transactions -- transfer money from savings to checking and online bill pay.
Consider Tomorrow:
You go online as above, and purchase "iTunes Dollars" for the total of the 3 original gift cards -- paying automatically with a charge (due in 30 days) to your iTunes account.
Separately, or as part of the original transaction, you distribute the gifts of "iTunes Dollars" directly to the kids individual iTunes accounts -- or through a combination of texts, emails, bumps, WiFi -- possibly scheduled through a calendar app. It's painless -- there is no exchange of physical cards, scratching and entering codes...
In 30 days, the original charge is due for payment in your iTunes account -- it can be paid by any iTunes Store credit you have in your account -- or charged to the credit card backing the account.
This example was just for buying and giving iTunes gift cards in the form of "iTunes Dollars"...
What if you could use these virtual dollars to buy other things... any things... food, clothing, gasoline, Disneyland passes...
For those who do not have a credit card backing their individual iTunes account, the account could be used as a virtual savings/checking/debit account -- possibly earning interest. It could be used to build credit history and establish a credit rating.
And the recipient of any of these "iTunes Dollars" could, in turn, regift them to friends and family…
As to collection and payment of taxes -- that is the responsibility of the seller of the goods -- not for the currency service.
Sent from my iPad
That was my point that the transfer of tokens, etc will become a currency. No credit card or bank is required. Basically, it becomes a bartering system.
The responsibility for taxes can be handled in some cases by the currency service. Tokens need to have a legal tender value for the transaction to be allowed and a percent is charged by the service based on that value. There is no reason why a VAT cannot be applied at that point, and the currency services pays it.
Again, I agree with most of this...
But I don't see why the currency service would want to get involved in all the legal and regulatory [government] hassle of collecting, accounting for and paying taxes to a multitude of overlapping taxing agencies.
Recently, I bought two $100 iTunes Gift Cards from BestBuy Online -- the cards were on special for $80 -- a 20% discount. I paid for the cards with my Discover card which gives me an additional discount (CashBack Bonus) of 2 of the $160 charge and -- 1 month float, recourse, etc. Later we entered the cards into 2 iTunes accounts, then purchase apps, games, media etc. from the iTunes Store. My purchasing power was $200, I spent $156.80... a 21.6% discount.
Nowhere in any of these transactions was any tax charged!
I believe that the taxes are built into the price of the content sold on the iTunes Store -- and the party responsible for paying those taxes is the one who owns/publishes the app. In most cases this is not Apple (only for Apple-owned content).
Therefore, Apple could conduct a similar service with "iTunes Dollars" specie and avoid the tax hassle on all but Apple owned/published content.
But I don't see why the currency service would want to get involved in all the legal and regulatory [government] hassle of collecting, accounting for and paying taxes to a multitude of overlapping taxing agencies.
Recently, I bought two $100 iTunes Gift Cards from BestBuy Online -- the cards were on special for $80 -- a 20% discount. I paid for the cards with my Discover card which gives me an additional discount (CashBack Bonus) of 2 of the $160 charge and -- 1 month float, recourse, etc. Later we entered the cards into 2 iTunes accounts, then purchase apps, games, media etc. from the iTunes Store. My purchasing power was $200, I spent $156.80... a 21.6% discount.
Nowhere in any of these transactions was any tax charged!
I believe that the taxes are built into the price of the content sold on the iTunes Store -- and the party responsible for paying those taxes is the one who owns/publishes the app. In most cases this is not Apple (only for Apple-owned content).
Therefore, Apple could conduct a similar service with "iTunes Dollars" specie and avoid the tax hassle on all but Apple owned/published content.
I don't know why you think that "But I don't see why ...." is relevant? If governments decide to decrease the complexity of the current tax system and replace it in part by VAT or something akin, then paying the VAT by the currency providers is what they will have to do. The hassle issue is a trivial implementation problem easily solvable by technology. The real complexity is in policy, valuation of tokens, contracts, UCC, and international law -- not that the thoroughly incompetent western democracies have the ability or desire to actually do the policy work.
I don't know why you think that "But I don't see why ...." is relevant? If governments decide to decrease the complexity of the current tax system and replace it in part by VAT or something akin, then paying the VAT by the currency providers is what they will have to do. The hassle issue is a trivial implementation problem easily solvable by technology. The real complexity is in policy, valuation of tokens, contracts, UCC, and international law -- not that the thoroughly incompetent western democracies have the ability or desire to actually do the policy work.
It's because of taxation without representation and currency manipulation that happens under central banking systems that Bitcoin was developed. Friction-free digital currency.
That was my point that the transfer of tokens, etc will become a currency. No credit card or bank is required. Basically, it becomes a bartering system.
The responsibility for taxes can be handled in some cases by the currency service. Tokens need to have a legal tender value for the transaction to be allowed and a percent is charged by the service based on that value. There is no reason why a VAT cannot be applied at that point, and the currency services pays it.
A little more thought on this...
In 1968-1971 I worked and lived in ChicagoLand (work Des Plaines, Live Fox River Grove). They had no branch banking so we had an account in Des Plaines -- there was only the one bank location for that banking institution. Almost every civil and most personal transactions were conducted through Currency Exchanges... and for every transaction you paid a fee... pay your taxes, cash a check, pay a bill... you paid a fee. There were Currency Exchanges everywhere -- many just a small one-man office. It was very inconvenient and a bit expensive. But it was rumored to be a political reward granted in exchange for whatever... That was in the days before ATMs and eCommerrce, so I suspect that has changed.
Another similar form of the same thing is the "Foreign Exchange" services that you find in airports, train stations, etc. involved in International travel... Kind of a necessary evil!
I used to travel quite a bit and would use credit cards for most larger transactions. Our local bank in Saratoga, CA was the British Barkley's Bank. As a free service. they would provide foreign currencies for travel at the current exchange rate -- and accept any foreign currency upon return. This was fantastic -- I got convenience, fair value and avoided all the hassle experienced by my fellow travelers.
I think that something like iTunes specie could become the fair-value, always-accessable, convenient, hassle-free equivalent of an International Currency -- at least one accepted in places where anyone would want to go!
If my information is being used to target me ads, I'll complain about it. I'd prefer nothing of that sort occurring.
In fact, the easiest thing to do is to NOT touch users' information, serve up ALL kinds of ads, and let the user manually decide whether they want to see said type of ads anymore by touching/clicking/whatever the ad itself (longer view time…) and selecting "No, I don't want to see tampon ads anymore" or "Yes, I'd like to see exclusively tampon ads" or "Nah, but show me health product stuff." or whatever. Build the "targeting" from willful, not stolen, information.
It's not easier for anyone especially, not the advertiser, who is paying to get the ads placed and knows they don't benefit from wanton placement. Kids' cereal makers sure don't want to spend money on ad use that shows up in homes without children. Placing the ads specifically makes the space more valuable to the service, same as TV ads have always been. Cheap airtime is when no one is watching, more expensive is when your target is watching. Same thing. There is hardly such a thing as non-targeted advertising any more.
It's not easier for anyone especially, not the advertiser, who is paying to get the ads placed and knows they don't benefit from wanton placement. Kids' cereal makers sure don't want to spend money on ad use that shows up in homes without children. Placing the ads specifically makes the space more valuable to the service, same as TV ads have always been. Cheap airtime is when no one is watching, more expensive is when your target is watching. Same thing. There is hardly such a thing as non-targeted advertising any more.
Screw 'em. I'm the customer, and an individual citizen. I have rights, and they're not to be infringed. I'm not being unreasonable; that's why I said users should be able to manually decide what kind of ads they like to see. The advertisers will get their targeting without illegal or invasive procedures.
Screw 'em. I'm the customer, and an individual citizen. I have rights, and they're not to be infringed. I'm not being unreasonable; that's why I said users should be able to manually decide what kind of ads they like to see. The advertisers will get their targeting without illegal or invasive procedures.
But the whole point of ads is that you aren't choosing them like the rest of your content. An advertiser will spend money of a targeted ad that you have to sit through, which gives them their money's worth. If the user could deny the ad it would lower the value the service could charge for the space, which the service won't choose so that the consumer can feel more in control. For ALL of these services, from iRadio to youtube to Facebook, the end user is not where they're making their money. The end user only represents a value figure for what they're offering to the advertiser. The end user's desires as far as putting up with ads? Not on Apple's radar I'm sure, being the focused money making machine they are.
But the whole point of ads is that you aren't choosing them like the rest of your content.
That's why consumers shouldn't have to deal with this crap.
An advertiser will spend money of a targeted ad that you have to sit through, which gives them their money's worth. If the user could deny the ad it would lower the value the service could charge for the space, which the service won't choose so that the consumer can feel more in control.
I'm not sure I get that, nor that I buy it. If nearly everyone doesn't want to see your ad, either stop making that ad, stop making that product, or go out of business. It's sort of how the system works, yeah?
For ALL of these services, from iRadio to youtube to Facebook, the end user is not where they're making their money.
That's why Apple tends not to be evil in that way.
The end user's desires as far as putting up with ads? Not on Apple's radar I'm sure, being the focused money making machine they are.
You do realize that Apple explicitly doesn't do ads in their products because they explicitly don't want people to have to see ads, right? You do realize that Apple isn't Google or Facebook and doesn't whore out users in this way, right?
Comments
1. Apple patents a lot of stuff that they never use just license
2. Sounds like they have included a lot of non traditional ad uses. Like virtual gift cards.
You go to iTunes and gift money to anyone you want and it's paid for by the credit card on file.
Only difference is that they are proposing a way to use it for outside things.
Sadly...
Only half in jest... consider the homeless guy who dumps the Square Card Reader on his iPad -- instead, to process all his currency transactions with "iTunes Dollars" specie
Food Stamps? There's an app for that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I agree with most of the above.
But more than just a currency management system, it becomes a currency itself.
Consider Today:
You go to BestBuy or their online site and buy 3 iTunes gift cards for the kids -- paying with cash, credit or debit card.
You give or send the cards to the kids -- and they individually scratch and enter the code into their iTunes account.
Next month you pay the original credit card bill for the 3 gift cards with another set of transactions -- transfer money from savings to checking and online bill pay.
Consider Tomorrow:
You go online as above, and purchase "iTunes Dollars" for the total of the 3 original gift cards -- paying automatically with a charge (due in 30 days) to your iTunes account.
Separately, or as part of the original transaction, you distribute the gifts of "iTunes Dollars" directly to the kids individual iTunes accounts -- or through a combination of texts, emails, bumps, WiFi -- possibly scheduled through a calendar app. It's painless -- there is no exchange of physical cards, scratching and entering codes...
In 30 days, the original charge is due for payment in your iTunes account -- it can be paid by any iTunes Store credit you have in your account -- or charged to the credit card backing the account.
This example was just for buying and giving iTunes gift cards in the form of "iTunes Dollars"...
What if you could use these virtual dollars to buy other things... any things... food, clothing, gasoline, Disneyland passes...
For those who do not have a credit card backing their individual iTunes account, the account could be used as a virtual savings/checking/debit account -- possibly earning interest. It could be used to build credit history and establish a credit rating.
And the recipient of any of these "iTunes Dollars" could, in turn, regift them to friends and family…
As to collection and payment of taxes -- that is the responsibility of the seller of the goods -- not for the currency service.
Sent from my iPad
That was my point that the transfer of tokens, etc will become a currency. No credit card or bank is required. Basically, it becomes a bartering system.
The responsibility for taxes can be handled in some cases by the currency service. Tokens need to have a legal tender value for the transaction to be allowed and a percent is charged by the service based on that value. There is no reason why a VAT cannot be applied at that point, and the currency services pays it.
Again, I agree with most of this...
But I don't see why the currency service would want to get involved in all the legal and regulatory [government] hassle of collecting, accounting for and paying taxes to a multitude of overlapping taxing agencies.
Recently, I bought two $100 iTunes Gift Cards from BestBuy Online -- the cards were on special for $80 -- a 20% discount. I paid for the cards with my Discover card which gives me an additional discount (CashBack Bonus) of 2 of the $160 charge and -- 1 month float, recourse, etc. Later we entered the cards into 2 iTunes accounts, then purchase apps, games, media etc. from the iTunes Store. My purchasing power was $200, I spent $156.80... a 21.6% discount.
Nowhere in any of these transactions was any tax charged!
I believe that the taxes are built into the price of the content sold on the iTunes Store -- and the party responsible for paying those taxes is the one who owns/publishes the app. In most cases this is not Apple (only for Apple-owned content).
Therefore, Apple could conduct a similar service with "iTunes Dollars" specie and avoid the tax hassle on all but Apple owned/published content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Again, I agree with most of this...
But I don't see why the currency service would want to get involved in all the legal and regulatory [government] hassle of collecting, accounting for and paying taxes to a multitude of overlapping taxing agencies.
Recently, I bought two $100 iTunes Gift Cards from BestBuy Online -- the cards were on special for $80 -- a 20% discount. I paid for the cards with my Discover card which gives me an additional discount (CashBack Bonus) of 2 of the $160 charge and -- 1 month float, recourse, etc. Later we entered the cards into 2 iTunes accounts, then purchase apps, games, media etc. from the iTunes Store. My purchasing power was $200, I spent $156.80... a 21.6% discount.
Nowhere in any of these transactions was any tax charged!
I believe that the taxes are built into the price of the content sold on the iTunes Store -- and the party responsible for paying those taxes is the one who owns/publishes the app. In most cases this is not Apple (only for Apple-owned content).
Therefore, Apple could conduct a similar service with "iTunes Dollars" specie and avoid the tax hassle on all but Apple owned/published content.
I don't know why you think that "But I don't see why ...." is relevant? If governments decide to decrease the complexity of the current tax system and replace it in part by VAT or something akin, then paying the VAT by the currency providers is what they will have to do. The hassle issue is a trivial implementation problem easily solvable by technology. The real complexity is in policy, valuation of tokens, contracts, UCC, and international law -- not that the thoroughly incompetent western democracies have the ability or desire to actually do the policy work.
It's because of taxation without representation and currency manipulation that happens under central banking systems that Bitcoin was developed. Friction-free digital currency.
A little more thought on this...
In 1968-1971 I worked and lived in ChicagoLand (work Des Plaines, Live Fox River Grove). They had no branch banking so we had an account in Des Plaines -- there was only the one bank location for that banking institution. Almost every civil and most personal transactions were conducted through Currency Exchanges... and for every transaction you paid a fee... pay your taxes, cash a check, pay a bill... you paid a fee. There were Currency Exchanges everywhere -- many just a small one-man office. It was very inconvenient and a bit expensive. But it was rumored to be a political reward granted in exchange for whatever... That was in the days before ATMs and eCommerrce, so I suspect that has changed.
Another similar form of the same thing is the "Foreign Exchange" services that you find in airports, train stations, etc. involved in International travel... Kind of a necessary evil!
I used to travel quite a bit and would use credit cards for most larger transactions. Our local bank in Saratoga, CA was the British Barkley's Bank. As a free service. they would provide foreign currencies for travel at the current exchange rate -- and accept any foreign currency upon return. This was fantastic -- I got convenience, fair value and avoided all the hassle experienced by my fellow travelers.
I think that something like iTunes specie could become the fair-value, always-accessable, convenient, hassle-free equivalent of an International Currency -- at least one accepted in places where anyone would want to go!
I'm not a laboratory mouse.
I don't want to get a treat for going through the labyrinth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
If my information is being used to target me ads, I'll complain about it. I'd prefer nothing of that sort occurring.
In fact, the easiest thing to do is to NOT touch users' information, serve up ALL kinds of ads, and let the user manually decide whether they want to see said type of ads anymore by touching/clicking/whatever the ad itself (longer view time…) and selecting "No, I don't want to see tampon ads anymore" or "Yes, I'd like to see exclusively tampon ads" or "Nah, but show me health product stuff." or whatever. Build the "targeting" from willful, not stolen, information.
It's not easier for anyone especially, not the advertiser, who is paying to get the ads placed and knows they don't benefit from wanton placement. Kids' cereal makers sure don't want to spend money on ad use that shows up in homes without children. Placing the ads specifically makes the space more valuable to the service, same as TV ads have always been. Cheap airtime is when no one is watching, more expensive is when your target is watching. Same thing. There is hardly such a thing as non-targeted advertising any more.
Originally Posted by jlandd
It's not easier for anyone especially, not the advertiser, who is paying to get the ads placed and knows they don't benefit from wanton placement. Kids' cereal makers sure don't want to spend money on ad use that shows up in homes without children. Placing the ads specifically makes the space more valuable to the service, same as TV ads have always been. Cheap airtime is when no one is watching, more expensive is when your target is watching. Same thing. There is hardly such a thing as non-targeted advertising any more.
Screw 'em. I'm the customer, and an individual citizen. I have rights, and they're not to be infringed. I'm not being unreasonable; that's why I said users should be able to manually decide what kind of ads they like to see. The advertisers will get their targeting without illegal or invasive procedures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Screw 'em. I'm the customer, and an individual citizen. I have rights, and they're not to be infringed. I'm not being unreasonable; that's why I said users should be able to manually decide what kind of ads they like to see. The advertisers will get their targeting without illegal or invasive procedures.
But the whole point of ads is that you aren't choosing them like the rest of your content. An advertiser will spend money of a targeted ad that you have to sit through, which gives them their money's worth. If the user could deny the ad it would lower the value the service could charge for the space, which the service won't choose so that the consumer can feel more in control. For ALL of these services, from iRadio to youtube to Facebook, the end user is not where they're making their money. The end user only represents a value figure for what they're offering to the advertiser. The end user's desires as far as putting up with ads? Not on Apple's radar I'm sure, being the focused money making machine they are.
Originally Posted by jlandd
But the whole point of ads is that you aren't choosing them like the rest of your content.
That's why consumers shouldn't have to deal with this crap.
An advertiser will spend money of a targeted ad that you have to sit through, which gives them their money's worth. If the user could deny the ad it would lower the value the service could charge for the space, which the service won't choose so that the consumer can feel more in control.
I'm not sure I get that, nor that I buy it. If nearly everyone doesn't want to see your ad, either stop making that ad, stop making that product, or go out of business. It's sort of how the system works, yeah?
For ALL of these services, from iRadio to youtube to Facebook, the end user is not where they're making their money.
That's why Apple tends not to be evil in that way.
The end user's desires as far as putting up with ads? Not on Apple's radar I'm sure, being the focused money making machine they are.
You do realize that Apple explicitly doesn't do ads in their products because they explicitly don't want people to have to see ads, right? You do realize that Apple isn't Google or Facebook and doesn't whore out users in this way, right?