Samsung doesn't report sales, they report shipments. ...
Samsung doesn't report either one. Analysts try to figure it out, using supplier and store info, and even by checking what's coming into a country through customs.
As for channels getting stuffed and sales dropping the next quarter, the exact same situation happens several times a year with Apple as well. It's just the way things go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
The difference, however, is that Apple also provides channel inventory data (so that we can infer actual sales), and relatedly, provides data on numbers sold. Samsung hides both those numbers. I am guessing they do that because they like their hyped-up market share estimates (put out by consulting firms that don't know the first thing about data analysis), and the ASP on their 'smart'phones is embarrassing.
For 4Q 2012, Samsung had about $26 billion in revenue on smartphones. Some analysts claim they sold as many as 70 million smartphones. That's a wholesale ASP over $370.
For 1Q 2013, they made about $23.6 billion with 65 million smartphones, or an ASP of $363.
The industry average selling price in early 2012 was about $258. (Apple is way higher than that, but they're unique.)
Of course, if we claim that the analysts' sales estimates are high, the ASP goes up. And if we note that around 1/3 of them were low end phones, then that raises the ASP of the mid and high end phones.
Like other east Asian companies, Samsung never used to report sales numbers. They only did so for a short while around 2010, then went quiet again after all the lawsuits started. That seems a likely reason. They do still report milestones, though.
My guess is that Google is the next to take a hit when Samsung moves their phones to Tizen in an effort to increase profits and differentiate itself from Google's own phone offerings. This will lead to an immediate mega-divide in the Android community and a lot of Android in-fighting battling Samsung's army of paid posters against Google's PR machine.
I want popcorn, a 32 oz coke, and a ring side seat to that cat fight!!!
For 4Q 2012, Samsung had about $26 billion in revenue on smartphones. Some analysts claim they sold as many as 70 million smartphones. That's a wholesale ASP over $370.
For 1Q 2013, they made about $23.6 billion with 65 million smartphones, or an ASP of $363.
The industry average selling price in early 2012 was about $258. (Apple is way higher than that, but they're unique.)
Of course, if we claim that the analysts' sales estimates are high, the ASP goes up. And if we note that around 1/3 of them were low end phones, then that raises the ASP of the mid and high end phones.
Like other east Asian companies, Samsung never used to report sales numbers. They only did so for a short while around 2010, then went quiet again after all the lawsuits started. That seems a likely reason. They do still report milestones, though.
Ah, here we go again, with your well-worn 'analyst' nonsense. (The term analysts, btw, usually refers to those who make buy/sell recommendations for stocks and bonds; you're referring to marketing research and consulting firms like Gartner and IDC). As you well know, their methodology is laughable: they conflate actuals (for Apple) with estimates (for everyone else). I am not sure in which statistical universe that passes muster.....
Btw, why is Apple "unique"?
As to your hinting that 'lawsuits' were the reason Samsung may have stopped reporting volume data, we've been through that before as well, and you've been repeatedly proved wrong. Cite the article that purports to show that (as you always do), and we'll again go through why the reporter there was actually saying no such thing.
The bottom line is simply this, and it is a factually correct one: Apple is the only one that reports channel inventory and volumes and therefore, Apple is the only one for whom we can really estimate 'sales'; Samsung's ASP is pretty low compared to Apple's since they produce a lot of low-end crap. End of story.
Maybe it's too early to tell if Samsung share will slide for as long or as deep as Apple. Apple lost 45% from its peak of $705 to its trough of $382 in 8 months. Samsung only dropped 6% for a day. I'm not a Samsung investor in anyway, but the pain in Apple has been management's dead silence during the slide. For Samsung it looks like someone may care if a prolonged downturn in stock price is played out.
But for some reason Apple is still the most valuable company in the world with a current market cap of 414 Billion with Exxon is second place at 406 Billion. What the Apple Haters/ Samsung lovers fail to mention that since no one else has come close to passing these two that the market as a whole has shifted downward. Even when all the stock manipulators left Apple and went to Google, Apple has still maintained 100 Billion plus ahead of Google in market value.
Maybe it's too early to tell if Samsung share will slide for as long or as deep as Apple. Apple lost 45% from its peak of $705 to its trough of $382 in 8 months. Samsung only dropped 6% for a day. I'm not a Samsung investor in anyway, but the pain in Apple has been management's dead silence during the slide. For Samsung it looks like someone may care if a prolonged downturn in stock price is played out.
What should Apple have said? "Stop selling off our stock."
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq2
Channel stuffed.
Samsung doesn't report sales, they report shipments. ...
Samsung doesn't report either one. Analysts try to figure it out, using supplier and store info, and even by checking what's coming into a country through customs.
As for channels getting stuffed and sales dropping the next quarter, the exact same situation happens several times a year with Apple as well. It's just the way things go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
The difference, however, is that Apple also provides channel inventory data (so that we can infer actual sales), and relatedly, provides data on numbers sold. Samsung hides both those numbers. I am guessing they do that because they like their hyped-up market share estimates (put out by consulting firms that don't know the first thing about data analysis), and the ASP on their 'smart'phones is embarrassing.
For 4Q 2012, Samsung had about $26 billion in revenue on smartphones. Some analysts claim they sold as many as 70 million smartphones. That's a wholesale ASP over $370.
For 1Q 2013, they made about $23.6 billion with 65 million smartphones, or an ASP of $363.
The industry average selling price in early 2012 was about $258. (Apple is way higher than that, but they're unique.)
Of course, if we claim that the analysts' sales estimates are high, the ASP goes up. And if we note that around 1/3 of them were low end phones, then that raises the ASP of the mid and high end phones.
Like other east Asian companies, Samsung never used to report sales numbers. They only did so for a short while around 2010, then went quiet again after all the lawsuits started. That seems a likely reason. They do still report milestones, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN
My guess is that Google is the next to take a hit when Samsung moves their phones to Tizen in an effort to increase profits and differentiate itself from Google's own phone offerings. This will lead to an immediate mega-divide in the Android community and a lot of Android in-fighting battling Samsung's army of paid posters against Google's PR machine.
I want popcorn, a 32 oz coke, and a ring side seat to that cat fight!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
For 4Q 2012, Samsung had about $26 billion in revenue on smartphones. Some analysts claim they sold as many as 70 million smartphones. That's a wholesale ASP over $370.
For 1Q 2013, they made about $23.6 billion with 65 million smartphones, or an ASP of $363.
The industry average selling price in early 2012 was about $258. (Apple is way higher than that, but they're unique.)
Of course, if we claim that the analysts' sales estimates are high, the ASP goes up. And if we note that around 1/3 of them were low end phones, then that raises the ASP of the mid and high end phones.
Like other east Asian companies, Samsung never used to report sales numbers. They only did so for a short while around 2010, then went quiet again after all the lawsuits started. That seems a likely reason. They do still report milestones, though.
Ah, here we go again, with your well-worn 'analyst' nonsense. (The term analysts, btw, usually refers to those who make buy/sell recommendations for stocks and bonds; you're referring to marketing research and consulting firms like Gartner and IDC). As you well know, their methodology is laughable: they conflate actuals (for Apple) with estimates (for everyone else). I am not sure in which statistical universe that passes muster.....
Btw, why is Apple "unique"?
As to your hinting that 'lawsuits' were the reason Samsung may have stopped reporting volume data, we've been through that before as well, and you've been repeatedly proved wrong. Cite the article that purports to show that (as you always do), and we'll again go through why the reporter there was actually saying no such thing.
The bottom line is simply this, and it is a factually correct one: Apple is the only one that reports channel inventory and volumes and therefore, Apple is the only one for whom we can really estimate 'sales'; Samsung's ASP is pretty low compared to Apple's since they produce a lot of low-end crap. End of story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino
Maybe it's too early to tell if Samsung share will slide for as long or as deep as Apple. Apple lost 45% from its peak of $705 to its trough of $382 in 8 months. Samsung only dropped 6% for a day. I'm not a Samsung investor in anyway, but the pain in Apple has been management's dead silence during the slide. For Samsung it looks like someone may care if a prolonged downturn in stock price is played out.
But for some reason Apple is still the most valuable company in the world with a current market cap of 414 Billion with Exxon is second place at 406 Billion. What the Apple Haters/ Samsung lovers fail to mention that since no one else has come close to passing these two that the market as a whole has shifted downward. Even when all the stock manipulators left Apple and went to Google, Apple has still maintained 100 Billion plus ahead of Google in market value.
Plain or peanuts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino
Maybe it's too early to tell if Samsung share will slide for as long or as deep as Apple. Apple lost 45% from its peak of $705 to its trough of $382 in 8 months. Samsung only dropped 6% for a day. I'm not a Samsung investor in anyway, but the pain in Apple has been management's dead silence during the slide. For Samsung it looks like someone may care if a prolonged downturn in stock price is played out.
What should Apple have said? "Stop selling off our stock."