Why don't you clowns actually do something called "WAIT" and see what Apple has planned in the big picture with the Mac Pro? Jeez... sounds like a bunch of whining, bratty kids having a hissy-fit in preschool.
Personally, I like this new concept. When they introduced Thunderbolt, and the timeline for it, I figured Apple was going to really use the modular capabilities that Thunderbolt provides. It essentially extends PCIe outside of the box so you can configure it any way you want it. The days of the big, bulky tower box is gone. It makes cooling a lot easier since the fan covers the necessities, where the old box, the fans had to cool down other cards that Apple may, or may not know will ever be added.
Also, with Thunderbolt now becoming available in optical fiber, the cpu unit can remain on the desk, quiet and all, while all the hardware (disk, RAM box, etc) can reside somewhere else. That's cool.
So Apple will esentially sell a CPU/GPU system and (hopefully) price it that way, and let the user expand it anyway they want it (via Thunderbolt). Sounds like a win-win for all.
As far as it being a "dust magnet", how is that different than the old box? If people stick anything with fans under their desk, how is that NOT going to attract dust?
As far as cables, every current Mac Pro user I know has a huge cable-nest behind their tower. So this argument is moot. I lost track of how many whiners said "My Mac Pro stays under my desk, I don't care how it looks". Now suddenly, some are changing their tune?
I was thinking of the next iMac, now I'm going to see what Apple has planned with this Mac Pro. It has enough of my attention to warrant further research.
You know who appreciated this design the most? Check out The Woz's eyes and jaw-drop in the audience.
Note to Pros: save up and invest in the future. This is once again the future of computing staring you in the face, and you just don't have the vision to see it. The traditional tower workstation is dead. As with the death of the floppy, the first to implement USB, networking out of the box, wifi, touch computing... Apple is showing the way towards the next decade in computing.
Oh yeah... and don't forget: this is an Apple-Intel universe now. Intel has a huge stake in pushing Thunderbolt, whether "The Other Guys" want to or not.... and Apple is their proven partner to do that with.
Well it might get smaller. The logic boards are certain to shrink even more over time.
Yeah, I'm disappointed that it isn't 6" tall.
I keep thinking that what happened was like in "Spinal Tap", when they wrote the Stonehenge specs on a napkin and the when it came down from the skies...... : )
Doesn't matter when there are known driver issues with the FirePro and some pro apps that AMD is aware of and haven't fixed (ArcGIS, Autodesk, even some issues in CS) but work perfectly fine on the Quadro. And anyone that does CUDA is also now screwed.
Anybody doing CUDA is lost in the past. In fact using CUDA is foolish when there are open options. As to drivers that will be interesting to say the least but the Mac OS reveal did indicate OpenGL 4 support finally. In any event I've never been sure about who is ultimately responsible for drivers for Apple hardware. Drivers are an issue and even exploiting Haswell is a challenge.
Actually... I bet SJ saw many portions of this new design before he died. Apple does NOT create new computers over night, or within a year, specifically one that they expect to sell for the next 5-10 years.
Other than the cylindrical part... which by all physical logic is brilliant... it's almost exactly what I was expecting. Speculating a couple of months back, I thought it would be about 3-4 stacked Mac Minis in height, with stackable TB chassis. Actually, I still think those may be coming from either Apple or 3rd parties.
Also.... one last note: nobody mentioned the logical design as it mirrors Apple's new campus.... can you say Power Hub?
Good point- Steve may have had input on this latest Mac Pro design. It's too bad he wasn't around to introduce this- I can only imagine his Steve-o excitement and enthusiasm, bringing out acrobats to roll across the stage on top of it as they balance a long pole off the tip of their noses
It looks like a fun and capable upscale consumer computer. Big upgrade from a mini or an iMac, for sure. HUGE downgrade from a Mac Pro though.
It's more powerful than the existing Mac Pro in every single possible way. And you still have the gall to think you can get away with calling it a downgrade?
Maybe he has thousands of dollars invested in specialized equipment that won't work with this device.
It is a fact of life! I've seen cases where instruments costing $70,000+ dollars had to be scraped because manufactures would no longer support the AT based expansion card. interestingly the replacement runs on a Mini with a supporting external card.
I can't stress this enough technology marches on, even PCI Express will become a thing of the past.
Thunderbolt adoption has been painfully slow already. TB2 will be even worse. Hopefully the haswell iMacs will have TB2 in order to expand it's possible target audience somewhat.
This complaint is tired and idiotic and isn't made true by constantly repeating it. TB has been very successful as it addresses a specific need which is high speed communications. TB isn't meant to replace USB3, honestly why do you thing Apple added USB3 to this machine.
Good point- Steve may have had input on this latest Mac Pro design. It's too bad he wasn't around to introduce this- I can only imagine his Steve-o excitement and enthusiasm, bringing out acrobats to roll across the stage on top of it as they balance a long pole off the tip of their noses
Huh? SJ was always enthusiastic, but he always had class. He would never EVER do anything like you described!
Leave those theatrics to Samsung and MS these days. They're the Masters of Meh at the School of Embarrassment.
Yes. The more I think about it... and considering the Spaceship HQ/Turbo engine design....SJ is smilin' ? I'll join in on that grin
Look at the new info on Apple's site. It answers a lot of your questions.
Thanks for the heads up! All the people crying over innovation ought to look at Apples web site as it does much to explain the design decisions. People - this is a very innovative high performance machine, i real think Apple has a huge winner here. They just need to make sure the price is right.
I probably won't be getting one of these new Mac Pros right now, simply because I'm pretty sure that the cost will be far more than I am willing to budget for a computer at the moment, but damn, this is one sweet machine!
Isn't it funny how people have been whining for ages about the Mac Pro? When is the new one coming out! Apple doesn't innovate anymore! Blah Blah, fucking Blah.
And now that Apple releases a truly innovative design that looks like no Mac before it, that's 1/8 the size of the previous machine, out come the whiners, with their endless whining! These people are truly old fashioned and they're better off building their own PC, so that they can get exactly the machine that is made for them. And hopefully they won't have to whine anymore, since Apple has apparently innovated too much and taken too much of a leap. A leap that is guaranteed to confuse certain people who are not forward thinking.
You must be joking. They called it scaled down becasue it is.
It is shipping with twice the performance of the old machines and I'm willing to bet in some cases it will be more than twice the performance. That isn't scaled down at all.
You think they magically designed a system that has all of the features of the current machine in a box a quarter the size?
They got rid of everything that wasn't required for a "pro" computing platform. Further they added things that the current model doesn't even support well.
Where are the PCI slots?
Where are the AT, PCI, AGP, NuBus and other slots from the last century. They are gone because they aren't needed anymore.
Where are the bays to install tons of storage inside the box? This box is more of a scaled up Mac Mini than a scaled down Mac pro....
[/'quote]
Which is an asinine statement if I've ever heard of one. The drive bays are gone because they don't belong inside a pro computational module. You are lost in the past and as such are having a hard time seeing that things can and should be done differently in the future.
it ignores all of the reasons that people wanted a Mac Pro in the first place.
ACtually it addresses the very reasons that people buy Mac Pros in the first place. That is performance. This machine has huge potential.
Based on what? Just because Apple decrees something doesn't make it right or the industry standard.
You need to bone up on computer hardware. It won't be long before the only discrete GPUs you can even get will be in machines like this new Mac Pro. The industry is rapidly moving from barely serviceable integrated GPUs to Integrated GPUs that are not only good enough but effectively replace most discrete GPUs. Even with discrete GPUs they need ot be tightly coupled to the hardware of the rest of the system in order to maximize performance.
Beyond that it doesn't look like these processors are soldered on to the motherboard so I could imagine an enterprising individual upgrading them. The problem is GPUs have matured along with CPU's By the time it makes sense to replace the GPU's it might make more sense to simply replace the entire machine.
When I look at this machine I see the future. The fact that it causes you to long for the past is really your problem not mine.
This is almost exactly what I've been saying for years that a Mac Pro should be. The days of needing a giant tower are gone. After a decade of buying the top of the line Mac tower, I switched to a mini in 2007 and haven't looked back - until now. This could easily be my dream Mac. I wonder what the prices will be.
The Thunderbolt could be 6 Firewire ports with adapters.
I am just laughing at how people thought Apple would kill the Mac Pro line...
Like Apple programmers and the people that work at Apple don't want the fastest thing money can buy! So they made it, and are going to sell it to us, to those that can afford it.
Sell it will! I can't fathom the negativity here myself. This is a design that could effectively pull the Mac pro out of its sales slide and set a new industry standard. I can see HP powering up its copiers right now to realize a similar design of their own, just like how they copy the MBPs.
I think apple is making a serious move with OpenCL and AMD/ATI. Apple is serious about utilizing resources and power in their systems at all times. I.E. putting the GPU to work at all times.
People don't realize how successful OpenCL has been and the following it has in the industry. This machine just offers up an even more impressive workstation to leverage that sort of usage.
I think they want all developers to move forward and create apps to always expect GPU and CPU sharing the load as equals, almost, but having specialized functions when the time arrises.
I am excited cause there's a future, not a bleak iOS everything world, and the thing that is great is that the "Mac" lives on...
Laters...
I find the machine very interesting myself as it is indeed innovative. That isn't to say it is perfect but it will move the industry forward.
The more I think about this bold move, the more I think it is so full of brilliance and genius... it's beyond comprehension at first glance.
The Mac Pro Power Hub. EVERYTHING is expandable with TB.... AND.... the business side? I believe someone above mentioned it first, but this beast is going to actually retain even MORE of it's value down the road than any Mac before it. For the very express reason that it DOESN'T have internals.
Look at those mouth-watering specs to begin with... now add your RAID stack, your powered PCIe externals, RAM disks... now AND in the future. This very well could be the computer you hang on to for 6, 7 or even 10 years... as crazy as that sounds... but possible. That's not to say that Apple won't do iteration upgrades to the internals, but the base... or Mothership 1... could very well hold 75% of it's resale value for a very long time.
Apple has just built the mother of all computer engines... something analogous to a Porsche Carrera. Change your brakes, tires/rims, suspension, exhaust, turbo-cooler, sound system, what have you... but the engine in general, stays the same.... and THAT's what you pay for when purchasing a Porsche. That beast of an engine.
Apple ][ has it right: the rest of the manufacturers out here are just dumbfounded, because now no matter what they do, it still won't equal the future potential of a Mac Pro, without copying it.
So you guys jumping ship and considering going backwards to tower computing, have fun. You'll be back... and seriously ticked that you threw 1-2k in the toilet for your little hissy fit revenge.
Me personally: I'm hoppin' on this galactic wave of freakin' fun! :smokey:
The animated view shows only one, maybe two, SSD slot although the space in front of the other CPU is blank and could have room for another SSD slot. That's pretty minimal if there's only one or two SSD blade slots and 1-2TB is really nothing in terms of space for pro machines.
The animated video shows ONE SSD slot. the other bay does not have a docking port for one.
At least it isn't soldered in.
Other World sells a PCIe card with a 960GB SSD (two 480GB sticks in a RAID) for $1299. 1TB for this will no doubt be a similar price.
If the can sell the base machine with a quad core Xeon at 2.66 or 2.8, 4GB RAM, and a 128GB SSD for $2499, they'll sell quite a few of these.
Comments
Why don't you clowns actually do something called "WAIT" and see what Apple has planned in the big picture with the Mac Pro? Jeez... sounds like a bunch of whining, bratty kids having a hissy-fit in preschool.
Personally, I like this new concept. When they introduced Thunderbolt, and the timeline for it, I figured Apple was going to really use the modular capabilities that Thunderbolt provides. It essentially extends PCIe outside of the box so you can configure it any way you want it. The days of the big, bulky tower box is gone. It makes cooling a lot easier since the fan covers the necessities, where the old box, the fans had to cool down other cards that Apple may, or may not know will ever be added.
Also, with Thunderbolt now becoming available in optical fiber, the cpu unit can remain on the desk, quiet and all, while all the hardware (disk, RAM box, etc) can reside somewhere else. That's cool.
So Apple will esentially sell a CPU/GPU system and (hopefully) price it that way, and let the user expand it anyway they want it (via Thunderbolt). Sounds like a win-win for all.
As far as it being a "dust magnet", how is that different than the old box? If people stick anything with fans under their desk, how is that NOT going to attract dust?
As far as cables, every current Mac Pro user I know has a huge cable-nest behind their tower. So this argument is moot. I lost track of how many whiners said "My Mac Pro stays under my desk, I don't care how it looks". Now suddenly, some are changing their tune?
I was thinking of the next iMac, now I'm going to see what Apple has planned with this Mac Pro. It has enough of my attention to warrant further research.
You know who appreciated this design the most? Check out The Woz's eyes and jaw-drop in the audience.
Note to Pros: save up and invest in the future. This is once again the future of computing staring you in the face, and you just don't have the vision to see it. The traditional tower workstation is dead. As with the death of the floppy, the first to implement USB, networking out of the box, wifi, touch computing... Apple is showing the way towards the next decade in computing.
Oh yeah... and don't forget: this is an Apple-Intel universe now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Well it might get smaller. The logic boards are certain to shrink even more over time.
Yeah, I'm disappointed that it isn't 6" tall.
I keep thinking that what happened was like in "Spinal Tap", when they wrote the Stonehenge specs on a napkin and the when it came down from the skies...... : )
Anybody doing CUDA is lost in the past. In fact using CUDA is foolish when there are open options. As to drivers that will be interesting to say the least but the Mac OS reveal did indicate OpenGL 4 support finally. In any event I've never been sure about who is ultimately responsible for drivers for Apple hardware. Drivers are an issue and even exploiting Haswell is a challenge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
Actually... I bet SJ saw many portions of this new design before he died. Apple does NOT create new computers over night, or within a year, specifically one that they expect to sell for the next 5-10 years.
Other than the cylindrical part... which by all physical logic is brilliant... it's almost exactly what I was expecting. Speculating a couple of months back, I thought it would be about 3-4 stacked Mac Minis in height, with stackable TB chassis. Actually, I still think those may be coming from either Apple or 3rd parties.
Also.... one last note: nobody mentioned the logical design as it mirrors Apple's new campus.... can you say Power Hub?
Good point- Steve may have had input on this latest Mac Pro design. It's too bad he wasn't around to introduce this- I can only imagine his Steve-o excitement and enthusiasm, bringing out acrobats to roll across the stage on top of it as they balance a long pole off the tip of their noses
Originally Posted by bsenka
It looks like a fun and capable upscale consumer computer. Big upgrade from a mini or an iMac, for sure. HUGE downgrade from a Mac Pro though.
It's more powerful than the existing Mac Pro in every single possible way. And you still have the gall to think you can get away with calling it a downgrade?
Damnit, I miss my old cube...
Finally, dual graphics chips in a Mac. Since it is AMD graphics, I'm assuming this is Crossfire?
The next revision should have a second internal SSD slot. There seems to be enough room for it.
I can't stress this enough technology marches on, even PCI Express will become a thing of the past. This complaint is tired and idiotic and isn't made true by constantly repeating it. TB has been very successful as it addresses a specific need which is high speed communications. TB isn't meant to replace USB3, honestly why do you thing Apple added USB3 to this machine.
Huh? SJ was always enthusiastic, but he always had class. He would never EVER do anything like you described!
Leave those theatrics to Samsung and MS these days. They're the Masters of Meh at the School of Embarrassment.
Yes. The more I think about it... and considering the Spaceship HQ/Turbo engine design....SJ is smilin' ? I'll join in on that grin
Thanks for the heads up! All the people crying over innovation ought to look at Apples web site as it does much to explain the design decisions. People - this is a very innovative high performance machine, i real think Apple has a huge winner here. They just need to make sure the price is right.
I probably won't be getting one of these new Mac Pros right now, simply because I'm pretty sure that the cost will be far more than I am willing to budget for a computer at the moment, but damn, this is one sweet machine!
Isn't it funny how people have been whining for ages about the Mac Pro? When is the new one coming out! Apple doesn't innovate anymore! Blah Blah, fucking Blah.
And now that Apple releases a truly innovative design that looks like no Mac before it, that's 1/8 the size of the previous machine, out come the whiners, with their endless whining! These people are truly old fashioned and they're better off building their own PC, so that they can get exactly the machine that is made for them. And hopefully they won't have to whine anymore, since Apple has apparently innovated too much and taken too much of a leap. A leap that is guaranteed to confuse certain people who are not forward thinking.
[IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/26419/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
[IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/26421/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
I find the machine very interesting myself as it is indeed innovative. That isn't to say it is perfect but it will move the industry forward.
The Mac Pro Power Hub. EVERYTHING is expandable with TB.... AND.... the business side? I believe someone above mentioned it first, but this beast is going to actually retain even MORE of it's value down the road than any Mac before it. For the very express reason that it DOESN'T have internals.
Look at those mouth-watering specs to begin with... now add your RAID stack, your powered PCIe externals, RAM disks... now AND in the future. This very well could be the computer you hang on to for 6, 7 or even 10 years... as crazy as that sounds... but possible. That's not to say that Apple won't do iteration upgrades to the internals, but the base... or Mothership 1... could very well hold 75% of it's resale value for a very long time.
Apple has just built the mother of all computer engines... something analogous to a Porsche Carrera. Change your brakes, tires/rims, suspension, exhaust, turbo-cooler, sound system, what have you... but the engine in general, stays the same.... and THAT's what you pay for when purchasing a Porsche. That beast of an engine.
Apple ][ has it right: the rest of the manufacturers out here are just dumbfounded, because now no matter what they do, it still won't equal the future potential of a Mac Pro, without copying it.
So you guys jumping ship and considering going backwards to tower computing, have fun. You'll be back... and seriously ticked that you threw 1-2k in the toilet for your little hissy fit revenge.
Me personally: I'm hoppin' on this galactic wave of freakin' fun! :smokey:
Only 4 DIMM slots is pathetic for a pro workstation and will make high capacity expansion unaffordable for all but oil tycoons.
Anything Thunderbolt is going to be more expensive.
Pulling air up from the floor is an approach best left to a Roomba.
My Early 2008 Mac Pro can already manage 2 GBps I/O via one PCIe 2.0 expansion slot.
I could have built a 16-core Xeon server 6 months ago, but no I was waiting for this.
Prediction: Kleenex brand tissues to fit the lid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
The animated view shows only one, maybe two, SSD slot although the space in front of the other CPU is blank and could have room for another SSD slot. That's pretty minimal if there's only one or two SSD blade slots and 1-2TB is really nothing in terms of space for pro machines.
The animated video shows ONE SSD slot. the other bay does not have a docking port for one.
At least it isn't soldered in.
Other World sells a PCIe card with a 960GB SSD (two 480GB sticks in a RAID) for $1299. 1TB for this will no doubt be a similar price.
If the can sell the base machine with a quad core Xeon at 2.66 or 2.8, 4GB RAM, and a 128GB SSD for $2499, they'll sell quite a few of these.