Developer secretly tested new Mac Pro for weeks inside Apple's 'Evil Lab'

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  • Reply 61 of 180

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by allenbf View Post





    But assembled in the US. So that negates any savings in your examples.



    Amazing machine from the look/sound of it. I have no need for it but it makes me drool.


     


    Tim Cook stated clearly in NBC's Rock Center interview that bringing manufacturing back to the US is not a cost issue, it's a manpower qualification issue. He said that manufacturing in the US would not materially raise costs. He said the reason companies like Apple no longer manufacture in the US is due to a lack of qualified workforce. So your argument is not valid here, assembling the Mac Pro in the US - given the small quantities that are needed to fulfill orders - is not going to cost much more than it does currently.


     


    Did you know that past Mac Pros were assembled in Ireland? Do you think wages and worker benefits are higher or lower in Ireland than in the US?

  • Reply 62 of 180
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,372member
    edred wrote: »
    Right and many pro users will probably not settle for the prebuilt configurations. Plus they might have to buy the 4K monitor(s) and other expensive peripherals.But I still think that $2.5K-$3.5K will be the price range of the "basic" prebuilt configurations that I'm also guessing will be 3.

    I think you are correct for the base models however a BTO will probably go up 'to infinity and beyond ... ' (sorry got carried away there) and we don't even know about what add ons Apple have, perhaps a similar looking expansion box, maybe an Apple 4K cinema display? /wipes more drool away ...
  • Reply 63 of 180

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mr O View Post


    "Can't innovate anymore my ass. Like a boss! 1smoking.gif"


     


    I wish he wouldn't have said that. He is not far off from Balmer. Really the bragging is a bit juvenile, very PC like and unlike the poetry of the mac. I did not at all enjoy the product presentations despite the products being jaw droppingly beautiful. Phil just blew it. Shame. Ive really need to stand up and present the products himself. We need someone with genuine passion.



     


    Or maybe you are just a little bit too obsessed with Mr. Phil Schiller? I found his comment to be spot on! You probably don't follow what the media and Wall Street have been saying about Apple in the last year. This comment was not only warranted, it was welcomed and applauded. Apple has been the punching bag for media d-bags and Wall Street so-called "analysts" for not being innovative, and if I were a senior VP at Apple I probably would have made a similar statement. If Apple were more like your vision, they would be like everybody else. I don't think that's what we want from Apple.

  • Reply 64 of 180
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,372member
    Hold down the Option key and drag up/down to change angle (if you are not over a 3D area, you get only a minor change in angle). Drag right to pivot around the cursor location. Option Double Click zooms out...

    You can also use the compass icon in the lower right corner as a joystick.


    The Mavericks Maps app appears more robust than the iOS version -- zoom way out to the globe and it shows darkness and lights form the earth (no cloud layer yet). When in 3D you can tilt and zoom so that you can see the mountains and horizon in the background. And you can display a scale legend!

    Have a 3D Flyover look at Jungfraujoch, Luna Park, Sidney, Rose Bowl, Griffith Observatory, Tivoli Gardens...

    I love the ability to send via 'share' a map to an iPhone or iPad to load straight into maps and it's working with OS 6 at the other end just fine now. By the way, have you found a way to modify a driving route (as opposed to selecting from various optional pre set routes)? I like the ability on Google Maps (washes out mouth) to be able to drag a portion of the planned route to a slightly different road and see the data update.
  • Reply 65 of 180

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post



    @rob55 This isn't a machine that I would except to get basement discount deals on. If you're in need of this machine, a low price is nowhere on your spec list.



    I can already see the chorus of boos from the peanut gallery complaining about the impending MSRP. And I'm sure 99% of those will be broke-ass college students wishing they could own one of these, not industry pros.


     


    I agree totally!  Just one AMD/ATI Fire Pro GPU that meets the specs on Apple's Mac Pro web page cost $2000 to 3000 itself!  And guess what, there are 2 of those standard in the new Mac Pro!


     


    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195116


     


    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814105004

  • Reply 66 of 180
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,372member
    I think Apple is very correct to offer this in a single CPU configuration. If I remember my history, most Mac Pro users have been clamoring for better and faster GPU options rather than more CPUs. I will speculate that the majority of Mac Pro sales have been of the single CPU variety, and with the monster power of these dual GPUs (7 teraflops of compute power?) they can surely be utilized to assist the CPU when needed.

    Apple's pro market is primarily animators, photographers, artists and designers. Their pro market is not data centers that need to rack mount, they are not broadcast networks that need tons of CPU or GPU cores for transcoding video on the fly. The customer who is going to buy this machine doesn't need a ton of expansion options, but does need a lot of storage and video options - which this Mac Pro has in droves.

    Apple has hit a home run with the new Mac Pro, judging by the number of non-creative "pros" who are crying about the new design. As a photographer I've wanted a powerful Mac that would let me edit my photos at the highest resolution and with the smoothest experience. I don't need PCI slots or dual CPUs. 

    Yep I am in same boat, HD Video from my DSLRs will be smoother ... I am thinking like NTSC is now on a Mac Pro and Photoshop and Aperture will smoke .... :) I do a lot of HDR with a plug in and three large RAW images take way too long merge and mod on my MBP i7. I had 150 sets to work on yesterday and time is money. I want one soooo bad ... :D
  • Reply 67 of 180
    @chandra
    heavy metal rock music.... that was "Supremacy" by Muse, opening track of their latest album "The 2nd law"
  • Reply 68 of 180
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,174member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by curveddesign.com View Post


     


    I agree totally!  Just one AMD/ATI Fire Pro GPU that meets the specs on Apple's Mac Pro web page cost $2000 to 3000 itself!  And guess what, there are 2 of those standard in the new Mac Pro!


     


    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195116


     


    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814105004



    As was stated before in the other current threads about the new Mac Pro; Apple has more than likely worked a very sweet deal with ATI for low, low pricing on the GPUs they will use. This new machine will probably make Apple the largest single customer for these GPUs from ATI, and cutting the price per unit to move a substantial number of units is not a bad thing. X units for X $$$ per unit is always better than ZERO units for ZERO $$$ per unit…


     


    Apple - "Hello, ATI…? Yeah, this is Apple. Look, we want to buy some of your FirePro GPUs, yeah, the really fast ones… But we want to pay no more than X for them…"


     


    ATI - "What are you smoking over there, crack…!?! That price per unit is ludicrous…!"


     


    Apple - "Well, we want 100,000 units before the end of 2013…"


     


    ATI - "Where did you want these shipped to…?"

  • Reply 69 of 180
    phone-ui-guyphone-ui-guy Posts: 1,018member
    macronin wrote: »
    I agree totally!  Just one AMD/ATI Fire Pro GPU that meets the specs on Apple's Mac Pro web page cost $2000 to 3000 itself!  And guess what, there are 2 of those standard in the new Mac Pro!

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195116

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814105004
    As was stated before in the other current threads about the new Mac Pro; Apple has more than likely worked a very sweet deal with ATI for low, low pricing on the GPUs they will use. This new machine will probably make Apple the largest single customer for these GPUs from ATI, and cutting the price per unit to move a substantial number of units is not a bad thing. X units for X $$$ per unit is always better than ZERO units for ZERO $$$ per unit…

    Apple - "Hello, ATI…? Yeah, this is Apple. Look, we want to buy some of your FirePro GPUs, yeah, the really fast ones… But we want to pay no more than X for them…"

    ATI - "What are you smoking over there, crack…!?! That price per unit is ludicrous…!"

    Apple - "Well, we want 100,000 units before the end of 2013…"

    ATI - "Where did you want these shipped to…?"

    I'm sure they are getting a sweet deal on the chips, but there is going to be some more savings with these being integrated. Single heat sync (CPU and 2 GPUs), plus a single fan. The design looks pretty straight forward. My old MacPro was a freaking monster (dual G5) as far as the case, heat syncs, fans, and it didn't even have the liquid cooling. It was all top quality design, machined aluminum, steel, high grade plastics, etc. Even the thunderbolt 2 controllers are going to be had for a better discount since there is three per system. The GPUs are two per system. Twice the memory for the GPUs, etc. having PCIE flash disks that are shared with MacBook Air and likely the new MacBook Pros. Apple is doing this right.
  • Reply 70 of 180
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,462member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    This could very well become "THE" machine for a number of uses. I'd love to see a few in the Apple store myself but have this feeling that it will be hidden away just like previous Mac Pros.

    MP's are hidden away in US Apple Stores? They're on display over here...
    You have to experience pan/zoom in 3D Flyover with a map filling the entire 27" display -- nothing compares!

    Will my 30" ACD compare¿
    I will buy a new iMac when next upgraded...

    But, I want to see the Mac Pro pricing and

    ...and contemplating on a MP instead of an iMac?
    ... what's available from Apple in Retina or 4K displays (maybe the next iMac?). It's rather a PITA to scale down video from the Retina iPad to display on a non-retina desktop display,

    I move from my iPad3 with 3M pixels to my 30" ACD with 4M pixels easily. And your iMac has close to 3.7M pixels. I guess I'm missing your point.
  • Reply 71 of 180
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    Tim Cook stated clearly in NBC's Rock Center interview that bringing manufacturing back to the US is not a cost issue, it's a manpower qualification issue. He said that manufacturing in the US would not materially raise costs. He said the reason companies like Apple no longer manufacture in the US is due to a lack of qualified workforce. So your argument is not valid here, assembling the Mac Pro in the US - given the small quantities that are needed to fulfill orders - is not going to cost much more than it does currently.

    Did you know that past Mac Pros were assembled in Ireland? Do you think wages and worker benefits are higher or lower in Ireland than in the US?

    Off topic from this thread so my apologies.
    IMO - I know he said that but I just don't buy that it is that simple. And even if it is true, IMO it's incumbent on Apple to clearly 'demand' what they need. School systems can't guess/predict what Apple needs when Apple should clearly know the type of employees needed. The original Mac was built in California. This leads me back to my original opinion... Very simply economics drives where they do their work. That's a complex statement because regional politics/marketing can play into that economic analysis as well. However, listening to various CEOs (ie jeff Imelt(sp) on Charlie Rose), lower wages, cheap land for facilities, and robotics are the primary drivers to bring 'final assembly' work back to the US. NOT work force skills. They train what they need. And a good many of these assembly plants are not huge employers... many exceptions like Honda of course. My 2 cents.

    Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
  • Reply 72 of 180
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,524member
    Hold down the Option key and drag up/down to change angle (if you are not over a 3D area, you get only a minor change in angle). Drag right to pivot around the cursor location. Option Double Click zooms out...

    You can also use the compass icon in the lower right corner as a joystick.


    The Mavericks Maps app appears more robust than the iOS version -- zoom way out to the globe and it shows darkness and lights form the earth (no cloud layer yet). When in 3D you can tilt and zoom so that you can see the mountains and horizon in the background. And you can display a scale legend!

    Have a 3D Flyover look at Jungfraujoch, Luna Park, Sidney, Rose Bowl, Griffith Observatory, Tivoli Gardens...

    I love the ability to send via 'share' a map to an iPhone or iPad to load straight into maps and it's working with OS 6 at the other end just fine now. By the way, have you found a way to modify a driving route (as opposed to selecting from various optional pre set routes)? I like the ability on Google Maps (washes out mouth) to be able to drag a portion of the planned route to a slightly different road and see the data update.

    It doesn't look like the "drag route" feature is implemented in Mavericks Maps -- yet. I like the feature, but you can make Google Maps barf all over itself if you drag too fast -- it gets confused and shows routes within routes -- with no apparent way to drag yourself out of the mess.

    I am trying to get up to speed programming a Mac Maps app -- there are no examples...

    Also I haven't written any Mac apps since Xcode 3 -- and everything has changed on the Mac side -- and much of it different than the iOS side...

    So far, I modified a recent Mac app from a tutorial (pre Mavericks) and have a standard map displaying & working fine -- but I can't do anything with it yet It is just different enough from iOS to make it frustrating.

    I burrowing through the new docs -- but that is slow.

    Also, I found some code snippet examples from Google Maps apps that may provide some guidance...


    But, what I'd really like is a working example of Mavericks Maps app that I could examine and enhance!
  • Reply 73 of 180
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member


    I wouldn't be surprised if Apple prices the MacPro aggressively, surprisingly low.  As others have pointed out, they can get great pricing and over the years Apple has has a number of computers that were priced well under spec-for-spec comparable PCs.  That is, I expect there will be an entry level model that will be reasonable as an uber-desktop.  And the real pros will have plenty of options to spec it out into the 5-figure range.


     


    You'll notice that the Mac Pro page says: "With configurations offering up to 12 cores of processing power."  That doesn't sound like "there is only one CPU option" to me.

  • Reply 74 of 180
    I don't know about anyone else..... but.... this new MacPro is wonderful but ..... looks to me like R2D2 in Darth drag. I could see the wheels come down, it already spins, aka the keynote. and then the thing opening up to see the inner guts. How Star Warsy is this ultimate machine?
  • Reply 75 of 180
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,524member
    philboogie wrote: »
    wizard69 wrote: »
    This could very well become "THE" machine for a number of uses. I'd love to see a few in the Apple store myself but have this feeling that it will be hidden away just like previous Mac Pros.

    MP's are hidden away in US Apple Stores? They're on display over here...
    You have to experience pan/zoom in 3D Flyover with a map filling the entire 27" display -- nothing compares!

    Will my 30" ACD compare¿
    I will buy a new iMac when next upgraded...

    But, I want to see the Mac Pro pricing and

    ...and contemplating on a MP instead of an iMac?
    ... what's available from Apple in Retina or 4K displays (maybe the next iMac?). It's rather a PITA to scale down video from the Retina iPad to display on a non-retina desktop display,

    I move from my iPad3 with 3M pixels to my 30" ACD with 4M pixels easily. And your iMac has close to 3.7M pixels. I guess I'm missing your point.

    I meant that no other 3D mapping app compares.

    My iMac 27" display is 2560 x 1440, the iPad is 2048 x 1536.

    What's the resolution on your 30" ACD, 2560 x 1600 ?
  • Reply 76 of 180
    gazoobee wrote: »
    When those came out there was an actual line-up at my campus computer store of people waiting to get their hands on them.  That was the very first time I heard of or saw anyone actually line up for a computer of any kind, let alone an Apple computer.  

    Pro or otherwise, the Bondi Blue iMac was such a hit for Apple that it put the company back in the black, and gave Apple a fighting chance to create the future. It was also very copied, heralding a short time when some PC makers and peripheral device makers started using translucent colored plastic.
  • Reply 77 of 180
    woochiferwoochifer Posts: 365member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post


     


    Tim Cook stated clearly in NBC's Rock Center interview that bringing manufacturing back to the US is not a cost issue, it's a manpower qualification issue. He said that manufacturing in the US would not materially raise costs. He said the reason companies like Apple no longer manufacture in the US is due to a lack of qualified workforce. So your argument is not valid here, assembling the Mac Pro in the US - given the small quantities that are needed to fulfill orders - is not going to cost much more than it does currently.


     


    Did you know that past Mac Pros were assembled in Ireland? Do you think wages and worker benefits are higher or lower in Ireland than in the US?



     


    But, there is still a cost component to repatriating manufacturing, and part of the reasoning is rising costs elsewhere.  Costs are on an upward trajectory in China, due to rising labor costs, looming environmental regs, and rising transportation costs.  Much of the manufacturing in the U.S. is now highly specialized and automated; and while it requires skilled workers, it does not require a lot of them.  Lenovo recently shifted some of their notebook manufacturing to North Carolina, and the highly automated plant employs about 115 workers and they assemble "several hundred thousand" units a year.  I suspect that the cost equation for Apple would be comparable, since Mac Pro volume would likely be more in the "several hundred thousand" rather than "several million" units range.


     


    Manufacturing lines in China like those for the iPhone and iPad largely rely on old fashioned hand assembly and plants that can aggregate tens of thousands of workers together into a single site.  This kind of rapid mass mobilization of workers is what companies in China have perfected. It's a brute force approach that would be near impossible to achieve on that massive a scale in the U.S. for many reasons. Bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. would require less reliance on labor, and more reliance on automation technology.  I see the Mac Pro as Apple's test case for scaling this kind of activity up in the future for other product lines. 

  • Reply 78 of 180
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,462member
    I meant that no other 3D mapping app compares.

    My iMac 27" display is 2560 x 1440, the iPad is 2048 x 1536.

    What's the resolution on your 30" ACD, 2560 x 1600 ?

    Yep, 2560 x 1600. Useful for looking at the stock drop without scrolling, these 160 extra vertical pixels ¡

    ---
    Thanks for posting the Mavericks experience of Maps. Can't wait to see it myself, when it's released. Actually, can wait, otherwise I would sign up as a dev myself. Still, sometimes waiting for something good can be a turn-on as well.
  • Reply 79 of 180

    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


     


    When you have most of the same crowd of knuckle draggers that didn't understand and who mocked the iPhone and the same crowd of clowns that declared the iPad to be a huge flop, slamming this new Mac Pro, that is a sure fire sign of guaranteed success. These people are terrified, because they know that Apple's influence extends far beyond just Apple's borders.



    Don't forget the iPod - It is just an mp3 player with a hard drive and the battery will need to be replaced after a view years.  

  • Reply 80 of 180
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member


    Instead of having multiple external drives, PCI Express boxes, fans and power bricks, someone should make a single Thunderbolt expansion unit with multiple drive bays and PCI Express slots.  It should also have an internal power supply, quiet cooling, and match the aesthetic of the new Macs so they look nice when placed next to each other.  Instead of a single Thunderbolt connection, it should use multiple connections for better speed like one connection for the drive bays and separate connections for the PCI Express slots.


     


    Another important advantage of internal drive bays and slots is that when you shut down or sleep the computer, all the internal components and fans turn off at the same time.  Can this be done for external units also?

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