I have Mavericks DP1 installed on my Core2Duo hackintosh and there is a *huge* difference in performance between Safari 6 and 7 (I also have ML installed on another HD as my main release). This is not the usual "snappy" thing. The difference is very real. BTW, it is also true when comparing Mavericks to ML as a whole. Much faster, much more responsive and more productive (full screen apps multi monitor behaviour).
I have the impression that Mavericks is going to be a huge release, quality wise - reminiscent of Tiger.
)))))
I hope so.
I can't wait for it, if this is the case.
With all the features added in Lion/Mountain....I couldn't help but feel we needed to get back to some 'efficiency' and optimisation of the OS again. Sounds like it's going to be a hard core release. Refinement. But also under the hood as well.
I find these kind of comments ludicrous. The difference between the fastest browser and the slowest browser is always just a second or so, often it's just some portion of a second.
It's far more reasonable to choose one's browser based on features and ease of use, or because it's fit to some particular purpose than it is to pick it because you *must* have the fastest browser.
Like most tech workers, I use all the big three browsers (Safari, Chrome and Firefox), all day every day and usually have them running all at once because some tasks are better isolated in a separate browser. When I switch back and forth, the difference between one and the other in terms of speed is negligible. As long as you have a fairly up to date browser running on a fairly up to date computer, to say that one is better than the other because of a few microseconds of time is just silly.
Even when I have to use something awful on some old hunk-o-junk laptop that someone lends me, the "glacial" speed is mostly an illusion based on comparative experience. What seems like "forever" is really just a few seconds.
If it was that close AT ALL, I wouldn't bother switching. Chrome is significantly faster on my computer (2010 Macbook Pro) than Safari. Anywhere from 2-5 seconds faster for each page load. That's a pretty good amount of time when I sit down to read a few articles and catch up on my news around the web.
True that. Benchmarks are just one metric of many when assessing user impact. Chewing through javascript doesn't do much good if the UI thread suffers.
it's too bad I really rely on Chrome's bookmark syncing. I use Bookmarks on 10 or so devices, laptops, desktops, tablets, phone, set-tops and a few dual booting. The only thing that really gets my bookmarks everywhere is Chrome.
This is tested on 64bit, where Chrome and Firefox has spend less time on tuning. The Firefox results were based before their New Baseline and Tuned IonMonkey works. Which is scheduled on Version 22. The tested version was Version 21.
But it is good Safari finally makes big jump in performance. As they have been lacking in that department. Cant wait to see when it is finally shipped. Chrome has been on top for nearly 3 - 4 years. And It was only recently Firefox make a come back.
This is tested on 64bit, where Chrome and Firefox has spend less time on tuning.
The Firefox results were based before their New Baseline and Tuned IonMonkey works. Which is scheduled on Version 22. The tested version was Version 21.
But it is good Safari finally makes big jump in performance. As they have been lacking in that department. Cant wait to see when it is finally shipped. Chrome has been on top for nearly 3 - 4 years. And It was only recently Firefox make a come back.
I'm on Firefox 22.
So "peacekeeper" takes away points from Safari over WebGL and WebM and from Firefox over H.264.
As soon as an "unsupported" test comes up it indicates inherent bias.
I do not want Chrome even though they advertise it on Australian TV, I choose Google No!
Why are Google paying for TV ads for something that is "free"?
With all the features added in Lion/Mountain....I couldn't help but feel we needed to get back to some 'efficiency' and optimisation of the OS again. Sounds like it's going to be a hard core release. Refinement. But also under the hood as well.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I'm getting the impression this will be a huge release. I've been following WWDC when I can and frankly it is a major overhaul. For one it looks like the transition to LLVM/CLang is complete. XCode has went through a major refactoring with lots of new tools and capabilities. It looks like Apple has put these new tools to work optimizing much of Mac OS/X. As such Mac OS/X should be a huge advance for pro users as well as any user that works with laptops that are battery powered.
There are some concerns I have, especially with the power saving feature for background apps. I think Apple is off on the wrong foot here in that the default behavior seems to be to suspend background apps. This will suck for old software as often you want these apps running in background. To have to manually manage this feature seems to be very un Apple like.
As far as the current release I don't think it is the features per say that have made Mountain Lion sluggish but rather some poor coding. I run an old machine that needs more RAM and it often comes to a crawl running Safari when really it shouldn't. Lets face it Safari isn't rocket science, it is a web browser, it shouldn't grab GB of RAM for no reason. It really looks like Apple is addressing this issue in Mavericks along with several other issues that have made Safari a bit of a hog.
In any event I urge anyone that is interested in the coming technologies to gain access to the WWDC videos. Some are a bit technical but those can be ignored. You will get the sense though that contrary to popular myth, Apple isn't standing still. In fact it is rather the opposite, it really looks like Apple is actually improving its OS, making it even more competitive than the alternatives.
To put it bluntly this WWDC seems to be more impressive than the last couple for Mac users.
That looks like they've put a solid black line under the menu now. Way back, the shadow used to be very subtle and it was a faint grey line. I found it annoying when they darkened the line because it makes me think I haven't dragged the window up high enough. I wish they'd make the menu solid white too.
I think Memory Pressure is going to scare people - they'll be on to tech support saying their memory pressure is really high. Memory Capacity or Usage would have been fine.
As for Safari, they may have to redraw the screen when it gets resized, this is probably expensive for HTML/CSS.
Thanks for replying to the post, as always.
Yes. I keep hearing how 'fast' Safari is at all this Java stuff and it renders pages fast enough, sure. Yet, on the 'user thread' ie the interface window...when you try to resize a Safari window it's really, really choppy. Jerks. Stop...pauses then appears where I dragged it two. Corner re-sizing on the windows is jerrrrrkyyyy.
'Choppy.' Not 'teh snappy...'
It's frustrating. No other app behaves this way. Has to be a software optimisation problem in Safari.
As for Safari, they may have to redraw the screen when it gets resized, this is probably expensive for HTML/CSS.
Hmm.
Yes.
Though, these aren't the days of memory starved, low cpu non gpu machines. You'd think Apple would be on top of Window drawing in a web browser. At least Saf' 7 offers hope that it will get resolved.
Sounds like a 'teh snappy' is coming for Saf' and the entire system?
Just frustrating being on a top of the line system and windows chop...thought we left that kind of thing behind in 10.0 Beta...in fact...was it this bad in Snow Leopard?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube
It's true.
I have Mavericks DP1 installed on my Core2Duo hackintosh and there is a *huge* difference in performance between Safari 6 and 7 (I also have ML installed on another HD as my main release). This is not the usual "snappy" thing. The difference is very real. BTW, it is also true when comparing Mavericks to ML as a whole. Much faster, much more responsive and more productive (full screen apps multi monitor behaviour).
I have the impression that Mavericks is going to be a huge release, quality wise - reminiscent of Tiger.
I hope so.
I can't wait for it, if this is the case.
With all the features added in Lion/Mountain....I couldn't help but feel we needed to get back to some 'efficiency' and optimisation of the OS again. Sounds like it's going to be a hard core release. Refinement. But also under the hood as well.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I find these kind of comments ludicrous. The difference between the fastest browser and the slowest browser is always just a second or so, often it's just some portion of a second.
It's far more reasonable to choose one's browser based on features and ease of use, or because it's fit to some particular purpose than it is to pick it because you *must* have the fastest browser.
Like most tech workers, I use all the big three browsers (Safari, Chrome and Firefox), all day every day and usually have them running all at once because some tasks are better isolated in a separate browser. When I switch back and forth, the difference between one and the other in terms of speed is negligible. As long as you have a fairly up to date browser running on a fairly up to date computer, to say that one is better than the other because of a few microseconds of time is just silly.
Even when I have to use something awful on some old hunk-o-junk laptop that someone lends me, the "glacial" speed is mostly an illusion based on comparative experience. What seems like "forever" is really just a few seconds.
If it was that close AT ALL, I wouldn't bother switching. Chrome is significantly faster on my computer (2010 Macbook Pro) than Safari. Anywhere from 2-5 seconds faster for each page load. That's a pretty good amount of time when I sit down to read a few articles and catch up on my news around the web.
True that. Benchmarks are just one metric of many when assessing user impact. Chewing through javascript doesn't do much good if the UI thread suffers.
This is tested on 64bit, where Chrome and Firefox has spend less time on tuning.
The Firefox results were based before their New Baseline and Tuned IonMonkey works. Which is scheduled on Version 22. The tested version was Version 21.
But it is good Safari finally makes big jump in performance. As they have been lacking in that department. Cant wait to see when it is finally shipped. Chrome has been on top for nearly 3 - 4 years. And It was only recently Firefox make a come back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec
Just a few things about the performance.
This is tested on 64bit, where Chrome and Firefox has spend less time on tuning.
The Firefox results were based before their New Baseline and Tuned IonMonkey works. Which is scheduled on Version 22. The tested version was Version 21.
But it is good Safari finally makes big jump in performance. As they have been lacking in that department. Cant wait to see when it is finally shipped. Chrome has been on top for nearly 3 - 4 years. And It was only recently Firefox make a come back.
I'm on Firefox 22.
So "peacekeeper" takes away points from Safari over WebGL and WebM and from Firefox over H.264.
As soon as an "unsupported" test comes up it indicates inherent bias.
I do not want Chrome even though they advertise it on Australian TV, I choose Google No!
Why are Google paying for TV ads for something that is "free"?
The "real" price may be too high.
I'm getting the impression this will be a huge release. I've been following WWDC when I can and frankly it is a major overhaul. For one it looks like the transition to LLVM/CLang is complete. XCode has went through a major refactoring with lots of new tools and capabilities. It looks like Apple has put these new tools to work optimizing much of Mac OS/X. As such Mac OS/X should be a huge advance for pro users as well as any user that works with laptops that are battery powered.
There are some concerns I have, especially with the power saving feature for background apps. I think Apple is off on the wrong foot here in that the default behavior seems to be to suspend background apps. This will suck for old software as often you want these apps running in background. To have to manually manage this feature seems to be very un Apple like.
As far as the current release I don't think it is the features per say that have made Mountain Lion sluggish but rather some poor coding. I run an old machine that needs more RAM and it often comes to a crawl running Safari when really it shouldn't. Lets face it Safari isn't rocket science, it is a web browser, it shouldn't grab GB of RAM for no reason. It really looks like Apple is addressing this issue in Mavericks along with several other issues that have made Safari a bit of a hog.
In any event I urge anyone that is interested in the coming technologies to gain access to the WWDC videos. Some are a bit technical but those can be ignored. You will get the sense though that contrary to popular myth, Apple isn't standing still. In fact it is rather the opposite, it really looks like Apple is actually improving its OS, making it even more competitive than the alternatives.
To put it bluntly this WWDC seems to be more impressive than the last couple for Mac users.
What is judders?
As for Safari, they may have to redraw the screen when it gets resized, this is probably expensive for HTML/CSS.
That looks like they've put a solid black line under the menu now. Way back, the shadow used to be very subtle and it was a faint grey line. I found it annoying when they darkened the line because it makes me think I haven't dragged the window up high enough. I wish they'd make the menu solid white too.
I think Memory Pressure is going to scare people - they'll be on to tech support saying their memory pressure is really high. Memory Capacity or Usage would have been fine.
[IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/26876/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
:???:
Or do you mean just without a gradient on it?
Fully opaque and pure white with a faint grey (20% black) separator:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
What is judders?
As for Safari, they may have to redraw the screen when it gets resized, this is probably expensive for HTML/CSS.
Thanks for replying to the post, as always.
Yes. I keep hearing how 'fast' Safari is at all this Java stuff and it renders pages fast enough, sure. Yet, on the 'user thread' ie the interface window...when you try to resize a Safari window it's really, really choppy. Jerks. Stop...pauses then appears where I dragged it two. Corner re-sizing on the windows is jerrrrrkyyyy.
'Choppy.' Not 'teh snappy...'
It's frustrating. No other app behaves this way. Has to be a software optimisation problem in Safari.
So I hope to the Lord above Safari 7 solves that.
?
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
As for Safari, they may have to redraw the screen when it gets resized, this is probably expensive for HTML/CSS.
Hmm.
Yes.
Though, these aren't the days of memory starved, low cpu non gpu machines. You'd think Apple would be on top of Window drawing in a web browser. At least Saf' 7 offers hope that it will get resolved.
Sounds like a 'teh snappy' is coming for Saf' and the entire system?
Just frustrating being on a top of the line system and windows chop...thought we left that kind of thing behind in 10.0 Beta...in fact...was it this bad in Snow Leopard?
Lemon Bon Bon.
That menu bar is only consistent with the Macbook Air's silver screen border. For everything else, there's MenuBarFilter.
I see.
Shame it doesn't do submenus. I'd love my Menu Bar to blend into the frame of my Cinema Display, but the way this works is ugly and incomplete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
...but the way this works is ugly and incomplete.
Strange that, for a beta.
CTRL + Q to Enable/Disable GoPhoto.it
Thanks for taking the time to do this for me now I will upgrade when it comes out.
Michael
Is there any way to get the kind of visual bookmarks organization you can make in the Chrome extension "Speed Dial"?
This is my only ongoing big pet peeve with Safari.
brulltyme
Is there any way to get the kind of visual bookmarks organization you can make in the Chrome extension "Speed Dial"?
Assuming Top Sites doesn't suit your fancy, I would suggest setting your homepage to a local html file that you create, customized to that end.
I have A LOT of bookmarks, I can not manage them in a little sidebar.
That's insane.
I need a "full window" option, like a have now and always had.