I'm glad Apple is making it easier to report map errors. That's been Google's strength. A few years back I asked Google Maps to give me a bike route from my place to the University of Washington. The route they gave would have been great except that they had me traveling CW around a lake where only CCW bike traffic is permitted. I reported that and, a couple of weeks later, got a thank you email from Google.
Bringing Maps to Macs brings up a question that's mystified me for several years. GPS chips designed for cell phones are cheap. Why doesn't Apple add them to their laptops? It'd put them one up on their competition and make those Location-aware features more useful. Or perhaps simpler, Apple might create a Bluetooth link that'd allow an iPhone to share its GPS data with iPads and Macs.
Personally I'm not that concerned that Apple's Maps app doesn't do transit services well. That's better handled by dedicated apps for each city. Those apps can use real-time data to tell when a bus will actually arrive not just when it's scheduled to arrive. It's a bit much to expect Apple to stay abreast of the quirks of every local bus system on the planet. Much better to leave that to third-party developers who know their cities and can work closely with transit officials.
I disagree. By that logic iCloud or iOS would look bad because they are free. Apple can market this a feature and use it as one more way to make fun of Microsoft. "This other company gets its partners to make your computer and then tries to rip you off with new OS install fees." "At Apple we make great computers, we charge for them, and then we take care of you." It's a great selling point.
iDevices are high margin items that many people upgrade every two years and many own two. Therefore iOS and iCloud can be supported with those revenues. Macs on the other hand last most people much longer than that and most people have only one (if any).
The new versions of OSX already have faster adoption rates than any desktop os in the history of computing. Further apple already has a reputation for good customer service.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have free upgrades. I am saying that I just don't see very much incentive to do this from apples point of view, and as a Mac owner, I don't see myself as being in a position to complain.
I'm pretty sure we already have this function since the 1st version on iOS.
First version of what on iOS? You can't edit a route by dragging in Apple's Maps iOS app or in Google's iOS Maps app. The question was whether one can edit a route by dragging in the OSX Maps app.
What I would like Apple do with maps is take advantage of there faster method of scanning data (plane VS google street view) The plus on that tech is then can show 3D rendering of everything in a scan region while street view, while more detail, is limited to what you can see... from the street.
So why not scan the entire world and make a 3D view of it? I was expecting to have a lot more 3D coverage in Apple maps. Granted Google has a huge head start with street view, but it should be faster to scan with planes.
imo, beside map accuracy and metadata inputs, 3D coverage is key here. Can Apple maps accept user pictures like google does?
for now people are more or less still being prepared pay for the products and they expect to do so. however, services market is destroyed by google and apple itself tried to charge for MobileMe. Didn't work, so now iCloud is for free. As a user, of course: I'd live OS X for free as well!
I would pay for a big icloud drive. They should offer this imo.
I would also pay to have unlimited photo stream, not just 1000 pics. I lost hundreds of pics when my imac drive fail, the pics where just out of the photo stream and I didnt had time to process, sort and backup my pics. So I lost them.
I now a time capsuled backup of the entire imac, but its too late.
Perhaps in North America it is improving, but here in the UK its location database is so poor as to make it unusable (Yelp is also a vestigial service here). Occasionally I still fire it up, but locations known to Google are either absent, mistaken or shown as multiple results. A personal bug-bear is that Apple Maps fails to show railway stations until zoomed-in nearly all the way - which is no use at all when trying to locate public transport facilities in an alien environment.
I'll keep looking in on Apple Maps from time-to-time, but in the months since its inception it has improved not one jot in my hands, so I don't expect much improvement for an extended time.
In the meantime I hope Apple might accept its failings and allows users, via a preference setting, to default to Google (or other) Maps, so that tapping on an address in the Contacts app doesn't blindly point to Apple Maps.
I already pushed the "report a problem" button on my Iphone 4-5 times in the last 9 months to inform that the telephon number of my business here in Luxembourg is wrong.
Nothing changed
1. They verify every report to make sure no one is pranking
2. If you are reporting a telephone number issue then you prosbby need to report that to Yelp directly (the button in question is likely for map errors only).
In conclusion: of the people I know locally who have Macs, none of them have Mountain Lion installed.
Not going to happen.
I don't know what that says about the people you know, but the actual adoption rate of Mountain Lion is currently about 35%, and as new Macs are sold that number of course keeps rising. For the 65% who aren't using ML there are likely many reasons. Some have older Macs that don't lend themselves to the current OS; many non-technical users probably don't even know what OS version they have, or that there are newer ones, or have no idea why one might want to upgrade. I'm sure we all know plenty of people like that.
But here's one thing I'd bet on: there's no more than a tiny percentage of Mac owners who decline to update because they're not willing to drop $20.
When a user reports a map issue, how long after does the fix show up in the maps? 6 months?
Took around 4 months for the first one I reported, and 5 months for the second (they were actually reported at about the same time).
These weren't small errors either, the railway station in Darlington (town of 100,000, annual passengers 2.5 million), wasn't shown at all, but a tiny station 4 miles away, called Croft Station (village of 470, annual passenges 0 since the station closed in 1969 and was demolished in the 1970s) was.
Reporting the problem on the phone was a piece of cake. I'm not sure why DED needed to go out of his way to suggest it's too difficult or complicated. I stopped reporting issues because the slow response from Apple made me decide that if they can't be bothered to accept my help in a timely manner, I'm not going to offer it anymore.
I actually decided to finally give up on Apple Maps on Monday. I really like it as an application, I like how clear the maps are to read, how quickly it loads data, how well it zooms etc., but on Monday having just arrived at an unfamiliar airport on a business trip and asked it to direct me to the nearest CVS, it took me to a location that didn't exist.
I'm not a huge fan of Google generally, but their maps have never taken me to somewhere that just isn't there.
Don't think Mavericks needs to be free, just need to explain to users compelling reasons to upgrade. Honestly that was missing from Mountain Lion... along with the fact that it broke a few apps.
Apple maps needs to have transit directions as well as cycling, and if they want to push things a bit go for NEV directions as well. Neighborhood Electric Vehicles aren't allowed on streets with speed limits over 25mph and there are a number of spots that causes a need for very convoluted routings.
For cycling, you need to know routes where bikes are unadvisable as well as various bike route levels.
It would be cool to have a user-input facade photo mechanism, but I can imagine that would be hard to screen...
"A personal bug-bear is that Apple Maps fails to show railway stations until zoomed-in nearly all the way - which is no use at all when trying to locate public transport facilities in an alien environment."
I think that's even a more generalized problem. Lots of features, including street names that one needs in order to navigate properly, don't appear until the zoom level is high enough that the big picture is lost.
I'd like to see a simple slider control to set the threshold for when map details are displayed.
Apple Maps seems just fine to me... except for 1 glaring exception integrated public transit information. I believe Apple would be smart to add an extension architecture to Maps, that way added functionality or services can be added to the users 1 Maps app.
Integrated transit info means that it will almost always be wrong. Which is why I agree with the notion of extensions/plug ins, even in iOS. It's an idea my blogging cousin first mentioned to me and I think it makes a lot of sense. Not just for maps but fonts, themes (iOS and in apps) etc
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.1875px;">If any of the problems I have submitted ever get fixed, I'll let you know.</span>
I can say the same thing about mapquest and google maps. Been reporting errors with them for years and most of them have never been fixed
First version of what on iOS? You can't edit a route by dragging in Apple's Maps iOS app or in Google's iOS Maps app. The question was whether one can edit a route by dragging in the OSX Maps app.
I remember I tested it when the Map app came out by dragging to change to another route. Not sure why you can't do that.
I have submitted a problem like 10 times on a stupid ice cream stand that they forgot the 'North' part of the address is "123 somestreet North" so its in somebody's house. Its right on yelp and google.
This was when ios 6 first came out, and its yet to be fixed.
iDevices are high margin items that many people upgrade every two years and many own two. Therefore iOS and iCloud can be supported with those revenues. Macs on the other hand last most people much longer than that and most people have only one (if any).
I don't buy that argument. It's like those who argue that Apple will never produce an integrated TV because people don't renew them every two years. It doesn't make sense. They'd be lucky if they make $30 profit on the current Apple TV, and people don't buy a new one of those every two years either.
No. I think making Mavericks free just makes too much sense for Apple not to be seriously considering it. And this is the first time in living memory where they didn't announce a price. Besides, by giving it away for it free it makes the Mac far more appealing; it will sell more Macs, makes Mac users happier, makes Mac developers' lives a lot easier; by making their potential sales pool much larger, would make the platform FAR stronger. There are just too many good points.
"You mean now the Mac works just like the iPhone? You get free major updates every year? Wow!"
That's very appealing.
And it'd be very excising. And it allows Apple to push new software directions and associate services a lot more easily.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm not sure if Apple is even allowed to make Mavericks free if the wanted to. Something about accounting laws in the US, or Sarbane-Oakley thingy-law?
I personally have half of my clients upgraded, whereas the other half actually can't upgrade on many of their production machines due to outdated software still in use. Also, some of that software, like FreeHand, will never be updated because it's EOLed by Adobe and Adobe has taken away the ability in CS6 or CC to open FH files in Illustrator. Those clients just can't afford to throw away 20+ years worth of files and easy access to them.
Those clients and machines that aren't in the above situation have all been updated to ML (skipped Lion).... and they all enjoy it.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm not sure if Apple is even allowed to make Mavericks free if the wanted to. Something about accounting laws in the US, or Sarbane-Oakley thingy-law?
This argument was made for iOS too at the beginning. It's nonsense. There's always ways around these things.
Comments
Bringing Maps to Macs brings up a question that's mystified me for several years. GPS chips designed for cell phones are cheap. Why doesn't Apple add them to their laptops? It'd put them one up on their competition and make those Location-aware features more useful. Or perhaps simpler, Apple might create a Bluetooth link that'd allow an iPhone to share its GPS data with iPads and Macs.
Personally I'm not that concerned that Apple's Maps app doesn't do transit services well. That's better handled by dedicated apps for each city. Those apps can use real-time data to tell when a bus will actually arrive not just when it's scheduled to arrive. It's a bit much to expect Apple to stay abreast of the quirks of every local bus system on the planet. Much better to leave that to third-party developers who know their cities and can work closely with transit officials.
iDevices are high margin items that many people upgrade every two years and many own two. Therefore iOS and iCloud can be supported with those revenues. Macs on the other hand last most people much longer than that and most people have only one (if any).
The new versions of OSX already have faster adoption rates than any desktop os in the history of computing. Further apple already has a reputation for good customer service.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have free upgrades. I am saying that I just don't see very much incentive to do this from apples point of view, and as a Mac owner, I don't see myself as being in a position to complain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07
I'm pretty sure we already have this function since the 1st version on iOS.
First version of what on iOS? You can't edit a route by dragging in Apple's Maps iOS app or in Google's iOS Maps app. The question was whether one can edit a route by dragging in the OSX Maps app.
It is a nice, clean app but ridiculously hit-or-miss. I have essentially stopped using it because its content is useless.
What I would like Apple do with maps is take advantage of there faster method of scanning data (plane VS google street view) The plus on that tech is then can show 3D rendering of everything in a scan region while street view, while more detail, is limited to what you can see... from the street.
So why not scan the entire world and make a 3D view of it? I was expecting to have a lot more 3D coverage in Apple maps. Granted Google has a huge head start with street view, but it should be faster to scan with planes.
imo, beside map accuracy and metadata inputs, 3D coverage is key here. Can Apple maps accept user pictures like google does?
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi
for now people are more or less still being prepared pay for the products and they expect to do so. however, services market is destroyed by google and apple itself tried to charge for MobileMe. Didn't work, so now iCloud is for free. As a user, of course: I'd live OS X for free as well!
I would pay for a big icloud drive. They should offer this imo.
I would also pay to have unlimited photo stream, not just 1000 pics. I lost hundreds of pics when my imac drive fail, the pics where just out of the photo stream and I didnt had time to process, sort and backup my pics. So I lost them.
I now a time capsuled backup of the entire imac, but its too late.
Perhaps in North America it is improving, but here in the UK its location database is so poor as to make it unusable (Yelp is also a vestigial service here). Occasionally I still fire it up, but locations known to Google are either absent, mistaken or shown as multiple results. A personal bug-bear is that Apple Maps fails to show railway stations until zoomed-in nearly all the way - which is no use at all when trying to locate public transport facilities in an alien environment.
I'll keep looking in on Apple Maps from time-to-time, but in the months since its inception it has improved not one jot in my hands, so I don't expect much improvement for an extended time.
In the meantime I hope Apple might accept its failings and allows users, via a preference setting, to default to Google (or other) Maps, so that tapping on an address in the Contacts app doesn't blindly point to Apple Maps.
1. They verify every report to make sure no one is pranking
2. If you are reporting a telephone number issue then you prosbby need to report that to Yelp directly (the button in question is likely for map errors only).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Make Mavericks a free download. Check?
In conclusion: of the people I know locally who have Macs, none of them have Mountain Lion installed.
Not going to happen.
I don't know what that says about the people you know, but the actual adoption rate of Mountain Lion is currently about 35%, and as new Macs are sold that number of course keeps rising. For the 65% who aren't using ML there are likely many reasons. Some have older Macs that don't lend themselves to the current OS; many non-technical users probably don't even know what OS version they have, or that there are newer ones, or have no idea why one might want to upgrade. I'm sure we all know plenty of people like that.
But here's one thing I'd bet on: there's no more than a tiny percentage of Mac owners who decline to update because they're not willing to drop $20.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat@me
When a user reports a map issue, how long after does the fix show up in the maps? 6 months?
Took around 4 months for the first one I reported, and 5 months for the second (they were actually reported at about the same time).
These weren't small errors either, the railway station in Darlington (town of 100,000, annual passengers 2.5 million), wasn't shown at all, but a tiny station 4 miles away, called Croft Station (village of 470, annual passenges 0 since the station closed in 1969 and was demolished in the 1970s) was.
Reporting the problem on the phone was a piece of cake. I'm not sure why DED needed to go out of his way to suggest it's too difficult or complicated. I stopped reporting issues because the slow response from Apple made me decide that if they can't be bothered to accept my help in a timely manner, I'm not going to offer it anymore.
I actually decided to finally give up on Apple Maps on Monday. I really like it as an application, I like how clear the maps are to read, how quickly it loads data, how well it zooms etc., but on Monday having just arrived at an unfamiliar airport on a business trip and asked it to direct me to the nearest CVS, it took me to a location that didn't exist.
I'm not a huge fan of Google generally, but their maps have never taken me to somewhere that just isn't there.
Apple maps needs to have transit directions as well as cycling, and if they want to push things a bit go for NEV directions as well. Neighborhood Electric Vehicles aren't allowed on streets with speed limits over 25mph and there are a number of spots that causes a need for very convoluted routings.
For cycling, you need to know routes where bikes are unadvisable as well as various bike route levels.
It would be cool to have a user-input facade photo mechanism, but I can imagine that would be hard to screen...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyperson
"A personal bug-bear is that Apple Maps fails to show railway stations until zoomed-in nearly all the way - which is no use at all when trying to locate public transport facilities in an alien environment."
I think that's even a more generalized problem. Lots of features, including street names that one needs in order to navigate properly, don't appear until the zoom level is high enough that the big picture is lost.
I'd like to see a simple slider control to set the threshold for when map details are displayed.
Integrated transit info means that it will almost always be wrong. Which is why I agree with the notion of extensions/plug ins, even in iOS. It's an idea my blogging cousin first mentioned to me and I think it makes a lot of sense. Not just for maps but fonts, themes (iOS and in apps) etc
I can say the same thing about mapquest and google maps. Been reporting errors with them for years and most of them have never been fixed
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonyfork
First version of what on iOS? You can't edit a route by dragging in Apple's Maps iOS app or in Google's iOS Maps app. The question was whether one can edit a route by dragging in the OSX Maps app.
I remember I tested it when the Map app came out by dragging to change to another route. Not sure why you can't do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugbug
Here here.
Agreed. But it's hear hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugbug
Here here.
I have submitted a problem like 10 times on a stupid ice cream stand that they forgot the 'North' part of the address is "123 somestreet North" so its in somebody's house. Its right on yelp and google.
This was when ios 6 first came out, and its yet to be fixed.
That's inexcusable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen
iDevices are high margin items that many people upgrade every two years and many own two. Therefore iOS and iCloud can be supported with those revenues. Macs on the other hand last most people much longer than that and most people have only one (if any).
I don't buy that argument. It's like those who argue that Apple will never produce an integrated TV because people don't renew them every two years. It doesn't make sense. They'd be lucky if they make $30 profit on the current Apple TV, and people don't buy a new one of those every two years either.
No. I think making Mavericks free just makes too much sense for Apple not to be seriously considering it. And this is the first time in living memory where they didn't announce a price. Besides, by giving it away for it free it makes the Mac far more appealing; it will sell more Macs, makes Mac users happier, makes Mac developers' lives a lot easier; by making their potential sales pool much larger, would make the platform FAR stronger. There are just too many good points.
"You mean now the Mac works just like the iPhone? You get free major updates every year? Wow!"
That's very appealing.
And it'd be very excising. And it allows Apple to push new software directions and associate services a lot more easily.
I personally have half of my clients upgraded, whereas the other half actually can't upgrade on many of their production machines due to outdated software still in use. Also, some of that software, like FreeHand, will never be updated because it's EOLed by Adobe and Adobe has taken away the ability in CS6 or CC to open FH files in Illustrator. Those clients just can't afford to throw away 20+ years worth of files and easy access to them.
Those clients and machines that aren't in the above situation have all been updated to ML (skipped Lion).... and they all enjoy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm not sure if Apple is even allowed to make Mavericks free if the wanted to. Something about accounting laws in the US, or Sarbane-Oakley thingy-law?
This argument was made for iOS too at the beginning. It's nonsense. There's always ways around these things.