Apple's French headquarters raided by government competition authority

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 94
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,680member


    Are you trying to teach English speaking people the meaning of raid? Because this qualifies as a raid, and the definitions which you posted backs that up.


     


    Seriously : how many people injured , killed, in this "raid" ?


     


    Nobody has to be injured or killed in a raid, for something to qualify as a raid.


     


    a sudden assault or attack, as upon something to be seized or suppressed: a police raid on a gamblingring.


     


    Yep, that's what happened. Replace gamblingring with Apple, and there's your raid.


  • Reply 42 of 94
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    stephane36 wrote: »
    Apple wants to do business in EU. They have to conform to EU laws. That's it. If EU citizens money is good enough for Apple, they should stop fucking with our laws

    And you have already decided, without producing citation of law or proof they are doing anything that they are guilty. Of this, of avoiding taxes (when the EU laws might actually allow them to do what they are doing which makes it the EU at fault for not changing the laws)
  • Reply 43 of 94
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Remember a little while back how some Frenchy minister was bashing Apple, because Apple had dared to remove some French app from the app store that was violating the rules? Do rules not apply to Frenchies?


     


    And now we have the French "competition authority" raiding Apple's headquarters! "Competition authority", haha, that is hilarious. A bunch of Frenchies going around protecting losers and those who fail. What a brilliant concept.


     


    What a joke of a country! A socialist hellhole that despises success, demonizes the rich and taxes the hell out of everybody. No wonder France is a mess, and things will only get worse! Now at least that is some good news!


     


    I've been to most places in Europe, but I refuse to step foot in that ridiculous country. 



     


    Hellhole image


     


    Oh you crazies are funny.  Healthier, happier, living longer, (while drinking and smoking more!) and yet their country is a hellhole because they don't worship at the Apple temple.  image

  • Reply 44 of 94
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    Well, Apple could always close up shop and you could take a train to a neighboring EU country for your Apple needs.

    Including those remaining resellers. I'm sure there's a law even in France that will allow them to decide not to renew a contract because they just don't want to.
  • Reply 45 of 94
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,269member
    stephane36 wrote: »
    It is about Apple coercing its partners to conform to costly specifications (size of the showfloor, type of furnitures, shelving layout etc.) in order to get the "Apple premium reseller" tag, then fucking with them by supplying only its own Stores with the latests products.
    Thanks for a specific rebuttal to at least attempt to move this thread to the level of ideas rather than insults. I am ashamed of my countrymen's gratuitous bashing. (Though your use of the term "bastards" was sort of asking for it.)

    But I must say that if Apple's sin is to have insisted upon clean, well-maintained displays that adhere to a corporate standard, then you do not appreciate two things. Apple had a history of being ill-served by resellers who relegated its products to dusty shelves in the back of the store displaying often broken or malfunctioning products. A situation that brought it to its knees. In its new incarnation it is understandably sensitive about such things. Second, it does exactly the same thing in its own country. BestBuy and other partners are required to adhere to stringent standards in their display of Apple products. This is not some odious anticompetitive behavior reserved for the French.
  • Reply 46 of 94
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    brutus009 wrote: »
    If a store claims that Apple isn't giving them enough product, and therefore Apple is favoring their own stores, then I think it boils down to two things:
    1. Has the store provided sufficient evidence to Apple proving what kind of demand they have, thereby establishing the shipment quantities they need?
    2. Assuming Apple has this information from all such stores, have they responded appropriately and to the best of their ability?

    The way reseller deals tend to work is that you buy the product at a discount and are permitted to 'resell' it at up to the company pricing. You generally can't go over the company pricing and you may have limited on how far you can discount as well as other rules like you can't put beta software on the gear, can't advertise them with other company software pre installed (but you could offer a set up service that might include installing software they just bought from you). Often there are minimum unit requirements to orders, rules that you can't return unsold product and yes even clauses that if the company puts in their own store in the area you may not be able to receive newer product because internal stores have first pick.

    So the deal here could be that Apple won't change their rules or their pricing and the resellers feel this isn't right because now with a 'real' Apple store they aren't making the money needed to order the product and they feel that Apple, who might be completely legal in their rules and complying with signed contracts, so be made to change because it's not 'morally right'. Ie inferring they have a duty to help these companies succeed even at a business loss to themselves. Not unlike the US Senate, when called out that it is the laws they passed that allow Apple to have overseas subsidiaries for overseas profits, basically said 'well yeah that's the law but we don't think you should be using it.'
  • Reply 47 of 94
    solomansoloman Posts: 228member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foljs View Post


    2) Only watches American movies and reads (if anything) mostly American and/or British books.



    Hey, I watched Amelie

  • Reply 48 of 94
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    rednival wrote: »
    Unless a major shift occurs, the EU will almost certainly implement restrictions on Apple.

    So long as the restrictions are done without bias, ie because its Apple but other companies are ignored, Apple will make any legally required changes and move on. But if they feel there is bias or local laws are trying to supersede authority or other prevailing laws, they will take it to court. As any company would. But you can get the press will paint it all as Apple was being evil, is being evil etc
  • Reply 49 of 94


    1-Men from the financial department of police entered Apple french headquarters with a warrant. It's like a investigation by the french equivalent of DoJ. It wasn't an armed police raid.


     


    2-eBizcuss has been the main Mac reseller for 10 years or so. They claim they suffered from Apple anticompetitive practices. A judge will have to determine if this claim hold or not. I don't see anything different than what would happen in USA. For all I know, ebizcuss had other problems (too fast a growth with heavy debt).


     


    3- This kind of investigation happens on a regular basis and is not exclusive to US firms, thanks god. The fact Apple is playing cat and mouse with EU financial legislation to avoid paying due taxes (in UK lastly) may be an aggravating factor, though.


     


    Still, facts remain: when availability of iPad 2 and iPhone 4 were scarce in France, no Apple store was lacking stock while Apple partners were waiting to get fresh supplies. This situation lasted months, effectively giving Apple stores an edge in attracting new or returning customers. 


     


    As for laws, France can't have laws contradicting EU directives… If Apple is found guilty in France, chances are other EU countries will follow on the same basis.


     


    I know french bashing is a favorite for some people but those should get their facts straight instead of resorting to worn stereotypes… and avoid to make a fool of themselves.

  • Reply 50 of 94
    teejay2012teejay2012 Posts: 275member

    Quote:





    @jungmark 2013/07/01 08:56am

    "This is the same country where it's illegal to work more than 35 hrs a week."



    it's false. or a lie.



    35h is the legal work time. it means it's the basic period for negotiations in enterprise and state workers.



    please, STOP spreading LIES.



    France is mostly like one of your American states. The main differences is you will see a LOT of croissant in bakery.


    What are you talking about.? Even the rest of the Eurozone mocks French work ethics, because of its 35-hour work week, bloated pension plans and early retirement age. Crosissants? Please stop this BS commenting. There is very little in similarities between France and the US.




     

  • Reply 51 of 94
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,772member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Remember a little while back how some Frenchy minister was bashing Apple, because Apple had dared to remove some French app from the app store that was violating the rules? Do rules not apply to Frenchies?


     


    And now we have the French "competition authority" raiding Apple's headquarters! "Competition authority", haha, that is hilarious. A bunch of Frenchies going around protecting losers and those who fail. What a brilliant concept.


     


    What a joke of a country! A socialist hellhole that despises success, demonizes the rich and taxes the hell out of everybody. No wonder France is a mess, and things will only get worse! Now at least that is some good news!


     


    I've been to most places in Europe, but I refuse to step foot in that ridiculous country. 



    I'm a liberal and I wouldn't even go to France.... I don't like their laws. How does stuff like this even get to court in France? I mean really? It's anti competitive to have Apple Stores getting Apple products first. What? Really? What did the retailers expect? They should offer all of the options maybe rather than being exclusive to Apple. It's putting all of your eggs into one basket.

  • Reply 52 of 94
    Most of the comments above show very poor knowledge of the French society and the French culture, which is not the same as the US culture and the US way of living. That's just it.
    - It's not illegal to work more than 35hrs a week, I do it almost all the weeks. To my knowledge, I haven't been arrested or fined for it.
    - in terms of the so called "socialist attitude", the actual government guys are the most right wing socialists we ever had. By the way there is a misunderstanding about what is defined in French as socialist : it is NOT communism. French Socialism is a derivative political thinking aiming at mixing extensive private business with public ownership of some key sectors that are, according to us, incompatible with profit, like health, education or culture. It is simply seen as obscene by French citizens to make profit in those sectors. And I strongly believe that is our right.
    And just to be clear, I love america, I've been there 5 times already, I do speak, read and obviously write English. And I love my country and its ways, it's my home.
  • Reply 53 of 94
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,772member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foljs View Post


    You gotta love Americans (and I'm not even French).


     


    1) It's not a RAID as in "policemen and SWAT teams screaming and knocking doors down". It was a quiet office search, under a warrant, and with the presence of an attorney to ensure all is going ok. The same kind of thing happens ALL the time in the US, when FBI investigates some company.


     


    I blame the article title first, the quick to jump to idiotic conclusions readers second.


     


    2) @cfugle """Socialist attitudes, socialist gov't, non-competitive attitudes prevail"""


     


    Did you even UNDERSTOOD the reason for this incident? If anything it's the fucking opposite. It was made to ENSURE competiveness (that is, against alleged anti-competitive practices by Apple).


     


    It's not like a typical American, that is characterised by 3 things:


     


    1) Only speaks English


    2) Only watches American movies and reads (if anything) mostly American and/or British books.


    3) Only has any direct experience with a 2 party system that alternates in power for more than half a century.


    4) Rarely follows World News, and when he does is only related to the interests of his country (e.g media


    covering some regime the US doesn't like or are about to invade, a few human interest stories from the Third


    World, etc).


     


    even understands European politics or what "socialism" is.


     


    Some even consider ...the Democrats as socialists. Others conflate the ex-communist countries of Eastern Europe with western europe's welfare states and socialist


    parties, unaware of a 80+ year split. Some even believe "social-democrat" parties are doubly ...socialist (in fact, it's a name give to right-of-centre parties akin to the Republican party in the US).


     


    It's like talking politics with a 12 year old.



    Heaven forbid people read and watch things in languages they understand. You don't see Americans complaining that people in France read and watch French things. They couldn't care less if France is reading and watching the stuff the US has produced. That would never even be a bone of contention with Americans. It sounds like you are doing just as bad a generalization of the US as many here in the US do of France.


     


    Also just because someone says something is anti-competitive doesn't make it so. Perhaps, people of the US have a healthy distrust of the government and France not a healthy enough distrust of the government....


     


    Right of center in Europe VS right of center in US are very different....but even a 12 year old knows that. 

  • Reply 54 of 94

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post





    Thanks for a specific rebuttal to at least attempt to move this thread to the level of ideas rather than insults. I am ashamed of my countrymen's gratuitous bashing. (Though your use of the term "bastards" was sort of asking for it.)



    But I must say that if Apple's sin is to have insisted upon clean, well-maintained displays that adhere to a corporate standard, then you do not appreciate two things. Apple had a history of being ill-served by resellers who relegated its products to dusty shelves in the back of the store displaying often broken or malfunctioning products. A situation that brought it to its knees. In its new incarnation it is understandably sensitive about such things. Second, it does exactly the same thing in its own country. BestBuy and other partners are required to adhere to stringent standards in their display of Apple products. This is not some odious anticompetitive behavior reserved for the French.


     


    Honestly, I am not sure court will follow ebizcuss argument. This reseller had other problems which go beyond Apple bad will.


     


    But, as for complying with Apple guidelines to get the Premium Reseller status, being the main reseller in France, I can testify they always had premium stores with clean layouts and skilled staff, long before Apple Premium Reseller status was set up. I don't know the specifics of Apple inventory channel and if commercial contracts were hard to comply with or not for a reseller. But several other european big resellers went belly up, following Apple stores growth. 


     


    And it wasn't about bad customer experience: we are speaking about big players and Apple-only resellers there. 


     


    Investigation is probably justified. Not sure if a trial will follow.

  • Reply 55 of 94
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,212member
    "...the company ward ordered to pay $6.5 million..."

    Ward??
  • Reply 56 of 94
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    apple ][ wrote: »

    I've been to most places in Europe, but I refuse to step foot in that ridiculous country. 

    Good! I hate to think of you visiting any country anywhere. Remember that book form the 50s called The Ugly American? No, of course you don't, or you wouldn't be the way you are. Or pretend to be.
  • Reply 57 of 94
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    adonissmu wrote: »
    Perhaps, people of the US have a healthy distrust of the government and France not a healthy enough distrust of the government....
    Given recent revelations it seems perfectly prudent for the people of France to be equally distrustful of the US government. There is no French PRISM, monitoring non-French people for unspecific reasons.

    Perhaps the people of the US should concentrate on distrusting and holding their own government to account, rather than sticking their oar in with other people's.
  • Reply 58 of 94
    jollypauljollypaul Posts: 328member


    This is probably retaliation for recent rejections of mimolette imports. Free the cheese mites.

  • Reply 59 of 94
    stevehsteveh Posts: 480member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foljs View Post


    It's not like a typical American, that is characterised by 3 things:


     


    1) Only speaks English


    2) Only watches American movies and reads (if anything) mostly American and/or British books.


    3) Only has any direct experience with a 2 party system that alternates in power for more than half a century.


    4) Rarely follows World News, and when he does is only related to the interests of his country (e.g media


    covering some regime the US doesn't like or are about to invade, a few human interest stories from the Third


    World, etc).


     


    even understands European politics or what "socialism" is.



     


    This one (and not very atypical one at at that):


     


    1) Speaks/reads/writes English and Spanish, reads Italian, German, some French, struggles with Dutch, has forgotten most of his written Russian (hey, it was 40 years ago in elementary school), learning Korean. Doing all of them for fun, since, except for the Spanish, there's not much call for daily use of the rest. Driving out to visit our oldest daughter is the rough equivalent of driving from Paris to Moscow, Ankara, Beirut or Cairo. No passport needed, one language required (others optional and sometimes fun). Most europeans have no idea of the scale of the size of the US and Canada (especially of the western regions).


     


    2) Seldom watches American/British movies or tv. Does watch Korean, Chinese and Japanese cinema.


     


    3) What 2-party system are you talking about? The US has a bunch of political parties. Granted, only 1.5 of them are prominent at the federal level, but you see more of the others as you drift down into more local politics.


     


    4) Pays as much attention to non-US news sources as not; it's not like it's hard to access other sources, even if you limit yourself to english-language reporting. Been doing that since BBC/Radio Moscow/Deutsche Welle/etc were only accessible here on shortwave.


     


    5) Understands european politics well enough, certainly as well or better than most europeans understand US internal politics, which is a pretty low bar. Doesn't mean I have to like much of it.

  • Reply 60 of 94
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post



    Good! I hate to think of you visiting any country anywhere. Remember that book form the 50s called The Ugly American? No, of course you don't, or you wouldn't be the way you are. Or pretend to be.


    I mentioned on this forum a few weeks ago that I would be going on vacation soon.


     


    I'm actually leaving towards the end of this week. And I'll be going to Europe for more than six weeks, but France is obviously not included in my travel itinerary. The thought never even crossed my mind.

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