I suspect Moffett's analysis is simply faulty. We don't know what the Apple-Verizon agreement actually says, but I seriously doubt there's a scenario where VZ is writing a multi-billion dollar check to Apple for iPhones not ordered. There agreement almost certainly specifies what the effect of not meeting sales goals are that are less draconian (or Verizon would have been insane to agree to the deal).
Actually yes the agreement could be that 'draconian' as you put it. The fault would be in assuming that only apple could have set up such deals. It's possible this money is across several hardware sources despite what he thinks
<p id="user_yui_3_10_0_1_1373563968265_394" style="color:rgb(69,69,69);font-family:'HelveticaNeue-Light', 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'footer-logoHelvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Sans Serif';font-size:16px;line-height:22.390625px;">Actually, Verizon has said that they don't condone such behavior. </p>
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
That's what I was thinking too. This rumor seems unlikely, but if it is, maybe Verizon will have to start pushing iPhones the way they have traditionally pushed Android phones, which would be great for Apple. It shouldn't be that hard.
Maybe you can't blame people for pushing Android phones if they are getting better commissions, but if they pretend that they think Android phones are better when they actually don't, they're just being dishonest to make a quick buck, which in my eyes is tantamount to fraud unless you can safely assume that the customers know that the seller has ulterior motives (as is the case when a vendor claims that their own product is better when it actually isn't).
Fraud is a pretty strong word. If you have a family to feed and you know that by pushing Android devices hard you could gain an extra $1,000 a month what would you do? Salesman in every company push products and services they may not think is the best. This happens every day in every industry. Imagine if an insurance agent were able to sell car insurance from both State Farm and Geico. Let's say that State Farm has the best policy with higher customer satisfaction, lower deductibles, and just an overall better policy. If State Farm paid an agent $100 for signing up a new customer and Geico paid that agent $200 which company policy do you think he would be pushing? Paying your bills will always take priority and you cannot blame sales reps for trying to take care of their families.
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
you are right......but they are telling them too not sell iPhones then lose 14 Billion either.....
Would that make sense to you? Instruct their sales people to steer away from the iPhone then lose 14 Billion dollars?
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
They're only saying that if it's happening, it's because of the commissions that Apple's prices to Verizon allow, not because of some corporate policy.
Such a policy would make no sense, especially assuming they really have to sell so many iPhones. If anything, you'd expect a policy favoring iPhones in that case.
you are right......but they are telling them too not sell iPhones then lose 14 Billion either.....
Would that make sense to you? Instruct their sales people to steer away from the iPhone then lose 14 Billion dollars?
I highly doubt that they're instructed to sell more Android devices, but obviously a worker will do whatever is best for their pocket regardless of what they've been instructed to do. I could see VZW offering a equal commission to push iPhones in hopes it'll lessen it's liability with Apple.
Perhaps it's Verizon's fault? VZ has been advertising other phones and dissing Apple's iPhone 5, if I'm not mistaken. So VZ was making a business decision that may have backfired. Too bad.
Perhaps it's Verizon's fault? VZ has been advertising other phones and dissing Apple's iPhone 5, if I'm not mistaken. So VZ was making a business decision that may have backfired. Too bad.
I think the spiff's aka commission to sales rep comes from the manufactures not from Verizon or Best Buy. If that is the case Apple can always choose to match the spiff or at least increase it enough to incentivize them enough to try a little harder. I don't think Verizon or Best Buy can do anything to get their reps to push the iPhone if the bonus money is coming from Samsung, HTC, or Motorola directly other than ban spiff's completely which I doubt they would ever do since this is a like a free subsidy to their employees they don't have to pay.
I highly doubt that they're instructed to sell more Android devices, but obviously a worker will do whatever is best for their pocket regardless of what they've been instructed to do. I could see VZW offering a equal commission to push iPhones in hopes it'll lessen it's liability with Apple.
With the BILLIONS of dollars involved. I am sure VZW gets daily...weekly.....monthly...quarterly...reports on sales for all devices they sell. If anything you would expect them to mandate their sales staff to push the iphone.
Here's a thought. Offer debtors the option pay it off, at a discount for incentive, with shares of their company. Maybe Apple can get its own telecom slowly taking over from within.
I agree with others I doubt that Verizon signed on to sell the stated number of iPhones. I do however think that these telcos who have deals with Apple that state they must sell X number of iPhones in a given time frame should re-examine allowing sales people to receive spiffs (incentives) to sell Android phones. This seems to be in direct opposition to what is the best for the health of the overall company as well as distorting the market.
I doubt anything comes of this but ultimately, Apple may demand the end of these incentives paid to sales staff that give Android and advantage while creating a disincentive to selling iPhones.
I think the spiff's aka commission to sales rep comes from the manufactures not from Verizon or Best Buy. If that is the case Apple can always choose to match the spiff or at least increase it enough to incentivize them enough to try a little harder. I don't think Verizon or Best Buy can do anything to get their reps to push the iPhone if the bonus money is coming from Samsung, HTC, or Motorola directly other than ban spiff's completely which I doubt they would ever do since this is a like a free subsidy to their employees they don't have to pay.
This is exactly why Tim Cook wants potential customers to go to an Apple Retail Store.
Apple doesn't want to pay spiffs to BestBuy or Verizon employees.
Why do that when Apple specialists will do a better job for free(or at least close to it)!
A novel approach...if not already mentioned...would be to discount the services they provide in the hopes that would spur iPhone sales. I would switch to Verizon in a quick minute if they reduced plans by 30% or greater. If they are going to loose money for not meeting a contractual agreement, only Apple wins. If they drop mobile contract schemes monthly costs, resulting in more customers, Verizon and consumers win.
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
They're only saying that if it's happening, it's because of the commissions that Apple's prices to Verizon allow, not because of some corporate policy.
Such a policy would make no sense, especially assuming they really have to sell so many iPhones. If anything, you'd expect a policy favoring iPhones in that case.
However, I've also noticed that all the advertising material that they send out encouraging me to upgrade one of my phones (an IP4) is pushing Android devices. So far I haven't received a single communication that mentions iPhones.
I doubt anything comes of this but ultimately, Apple may demand the end of these incentives paid to sales staff that give Android and advantage while creating a disincentive to selling iPhones.
There is nothing Apple can do. They can't demand that other companies change their sales policies. As I said before I am sure Verizon and other carriers are fine that Samsung and others pay their sales reps perhaps several extra thousand a year in salary which means they have less need to raise their salary to keep them on staff. The only thing Apple can do if they are unhappy with this is to increase their own spiff. Unless you are independently wealthy and working as a sales rep as a hobby you would be crazy not to push a Galaxy S4 and make an extra $50 instead of pushing an iPhone 5 and making $10. I wish an actual Verizon or other rep could chime in with actual numbers on these spiffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicommrob
Hey Verizon...
I'll buy two new iPhone 5's if you let me keep my unlimited data plan.
They already will allow this. You just have to pay full price for them. Or buy them off of Ebay or other sites for cheaper.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzTerri
I often talk and use data at the same time so that is a deal killer for me with Verizon.
I often walk and use data at the same time--that's why I went with the original iPhone on AT&T.
Actually yes the agreement could be that 'draconian' as you put it. The fault would be in assuming that only apple could have set up such deals. It's possible this money is across several hardware sources despite what he thinks
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrogusto
That's what I was thinking too. This rumor seems unlikely, but if it is, maybe Verizon will have to start pushing iPhones the way they have traditionally pushed Android phones, which would be great for Apple. It shouldn't be that hard.
Maybe you can't blame people for pushing Android phones if they are getting better commissions, but if they pretend that they think Android phones are better when they actually don't, they're just being dishonest to make a quick buck, which in my eyes is tantamount to fraud unless you can safely assume that the customers know that the seller has ulterior motives (as is the case when a vendor claims that their own product is better when it actually isn't).
Fraud is a pretty strong word. If you have a family to feed and you know that by pushing Android devices hard you could gain an extra $1,000 a month what would you do? Salesman in every company push products and services they may not think is the best. This happens every day in every industry. Imagine if an insurance agent were able to sell car insurance from both State Farm and Geico. Let's say that State Farm has the best policy with higher customer satisfaction, lower deductibles, and just an overall better policy. If State Farm paid an agent $100 for signing up a new customer and Geico paid that agent $200 which company policy do you think he would be pushing? Paying your bills will always take priority and you cannot blame sales reps for trying to take care of their families.
I hope they've adjusted their expectations for the 5S, then, or Verizon is really in for a world of hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
you are right......but they are telling them too not sell iPhones then lose 14 Billion either.....
Would that make sense to you? Instruct their sales people to steer away from the iPhone then lose 14 Billion dollars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
They're only saying that if it's happening, it's because of the commissions that Apple's prices to Verizon allow, not because of some corporate policy.
Such a policy would make no sense, especially assuming they really have to sell so many iPhones. If anything, you'd expect a policy favoring iPhones in that case.
I highly doubt that they're instructed to sell more Android devices, but obviously a worker will do whatever is best for their pocket regardless of what they've been instructed to do. I could see VZW offering a equal commission to push iPhones in hopes it'll lessen it's liability with Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
Perhaps it's Verizon's fault? VZ has been advertising other phones and dissing Apple's iPhone 5, if I'm not mistaken.
Got a link to a negative iPhone ad that aired after they started carrying the iPhone?
Verizon overestimated iphone sales? How could that be? hope iphone 5s can make it up in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
Perhaps it's Verizon's fault? VZ has been advertising other phones and dissing Apple's iPhone 5, if I'm not mistaken. So VZ was making a business decision that may have backfired. Too bad.
I think the spiff's aka commission to sales rep comes from the manufactures not from Verizon or Best Buy. If that is the case Apple can always choose to match the spiff or at least increase it enough to incentivize them enough to try a little harder. I don't think Verizon or Best Buy can do anything to get their reps to push the iPhone if the bonus money is coming from Samsung, HTC, or Motorola directly other than ban spiff's completely which I doubt they would ever do since this is a like a free subsidy to their employees they don't have to pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman
I highly doubt that they're instructed to sell more Android devices, but obviously a worker will do whatever is best for their pocket regardless of what they've been instructed to do. I could see VZW offering a equal commission to push iPhones in hopes it'll lessen it's liability with Apple.
With the BILLIONS of dollars involved. I am sure VZW gets daily...weekly.....monthly...quarterly...reports on sales for all devices they sell. If anything you would expect them to mandate their sales staff to push the iphone.
I agree with others I doubt that Verizon signed on to sell the stated number of iPhones. I do however think that these telcos who have deals with Apple that state they must sell X number of iPhones in a given time frame should re-examine allowing sales people to receive spiffs (incentives) to sell Android phones. This seems to be in direct opposition to what is the best for the health of the overall company as well as distorting the market.
I doubt anything comes of this but ultimately, Apple may demand the end of these incentives paid to sales staff that give Android and advantage while creating a disincentive to selling iPhones.
I'll buy two new iPhone 5's if you let me keep my unlimited data plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
I think the spiff's aka commission to sales rep comes from the manufactures not from Verizon or Best Buy. If that is the case Apple can always choose to match the spiff or at least increase it enough to incentivize them enough to try a little harder. I don't think Verizon or Best Buy can do anything to get their reps to push the iPhone if the bonus money is coming from Samsung, HTC, or Motorola directly other than ban spiff's completely which I doubt they would ever do since this is a like a free subsidy to their employees they don't have to pay.
This is exactly why Tim Cook wants potential customers to go to an Apple Retail Store.
Apple doesn't want to pay spiffs to BestBuy or Verizon employees.
Why do that when Apple specialists will do a better job for free(or at least close to it)!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Not condoning doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anymore than the executives at Best Buy likely don't condone sales staff claiming to be out of stok on a high ticket item because the buyer refused to get the extended service package, but it could still be happening
They're only saying that if it's happening, it's because of the commissions that Apple's prices to Verizon allow, not because of some corporate policy.
Such a policy would make no sense, especially assuming they really have to sell so many iPhones. If anything, you'd expect a policy favoring iPhones in that case.
However, I've also noticed that all the advertising material that they send out encouraging me to upgrade one of my phones (an IP4) is pushing Android devices. So far I haven't received a single communication that mentions iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleTechSpot
I doubt anything comes of this but ultimately, Apple may demand the end of these incentives paid to sales staff that give Android and advantage while creating a disincentive to selling iPhones.
There is nothing Apple can do. They can't demand that other companies change their sales policies. As I said before I am sure Verizon and other carriers are fine that Samsung and others pay their sales reps perhaps several extra thousand a year in salary which means they have less need to raise their salary to keep them on staff. The only thing Apple can do if they are unhappy with this is to increase their own spiff. Unless you are independently wealthy and working as a sales rep as a hobby you would be crazy not to push a Galaxy S4 and make an extra $50 instead of pushing an iPhone 5 and making $10. I wish an actual Verizon or other rep could chime in with actual numbers on these spiffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicommrob
Hey Verizon...
I'll buy two new iPhone 5's if you let me keep my unlimited data plan.
They already will allow this. You just have to pay full price for them. Or buy them off of Ebay or other sites for cheaper.