You suggest that the numbers don't indicate jailbreakers are pirates by saying maybe they're not all bad and buying eventually.
No I didn't. I gave a whole host of reasons why the number you gave is heavily flawed. The two biggest reasons being that you're quoting the numbers from a disreputable site to begin with, and then ignoring the fact that you don't have to jailbreak to download cracked apps from that site.
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The act of downloading a file via these sites is theft and a significant portion of people who jailbreak are doing it.
You have no idea how many people who jailbroke have downloaded any app from that site.
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If that wasn't the case, Appcake, ipastore etc wouldn't be on Cydia and if jailbreakers were so against it, those apps would be banned from Cydia.
Appcake and IPAstore aren't on Cydia. No offense, but I think you're talking a lot about things that you don't know enough about to be making the conclusions that you're making. You apparently don't really understand how Cydia works. The developer of Cydia is strongly anti-piracy. No piracy apps are featured or promoted in Cydia. The developer of Cydia hosts no pirated apps. None of the default Cydia repositories host pirated apps. The apps that used to facilitate piracy on jailbroken devices, such as Installous, were hosted in non-default, 3rd party repositories. The way Cydia works, they could be no more banned from Cydia than Apple could've banned them from Safari.
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If jailbreakers are against piracy, why don't they ban piracy apps and sources from Cydia?
For the same reason Apple doesn't ban the piracy of apps. You're pointing the finger at the wrong people. I'll say it again because it's directly relevant to this question... you don't have to jailbreak to pirate apps. The Dev-Team, who have spoken out against piracy, can no more stop piracy on jailbroken devices than Apple can stop piracy on non-jailbroken devices. And again, Cydia has no sources of piracy any more than saying Safari has sources for piracy.
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If they choose to pirate rather than restore an Apple firmware then that just shows that jailbreakers tend more towards piracy than not.
No, not at all. If X% of non-jailbreakers pirate, and X% of jailbreakers pirate, where X=X, then it's foolish to add incentive to either one to benefit in functionality of the app if they pirate versus buy. In other words, the exact opposite would've been true. Had the developer restricted non-jailbroken devices on the purchased app, but the pirated app was not restricted, those with non-jailbroken devices would've had the same incentive to pirate. Whether either side would have to any degree is unknown.
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Ok but if you go to a piracy community you won't be. Look at the Appcake forum, it says 159,000 members - 4.5x more than Reddit and that's just one community.
Again, you're taking numbers from a disreputable site. Additionally, you're comparing members on one site where membership is required to participate to subscribers of another site where subscription has nothing to do with participation. I actively participate in many subreddits that I'm not subscribed to. But be that as it may what you're saying is that the largest piracy community you can point to is 4.5x larger than the largest jailbreak community. That sounds like there are a lot of non-jailbreakers that are pirating apps. The one thing it doesn't prove is that the jailbreaking community is a subset of the piracy community. Again though, the point remains, go to the jailbreak community and see what they're talking about... it's not piracy.
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That's assuming the 10% would be paying and they won't be.
That's not the point. If none of the jailbreakers paid, nobody would've even known about this. It's precisely because paying jailbreakers bought the game and complained that this is a story at all, and more so that they felt inclined to change things back.
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It doesn't matter if a few jailbreakers are leaving negative reviews.
Yes, it very much matters to them. They dropped an entire star rating. This lowers them in ranking and has a direct link to sales.
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I'm not against people jailbreaking their devices, I'm against people thinking they have a right to complain about consequences of the choices they make and think that other people should accommodate those choices.
I totally agree with you there. Note, I didn't leave a negative review for them. My point isn't that people had a right to complain, but rather that what the developers did was very foolish.
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All the developers have done here is state openly that they don't support jailbroken iOS.
No, there's a difference between not supporting something and intentionally disabling something. In this case, they didn't just find something didn't work, and instead of fixing it say that they weren't going to support it. They intentionally set about disabling functionality in the app for jailbreakers. Again, that's their right, and I'd support their right, but it was a very foolish thing to do.
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If they are implying that jailbreakers are pirates (which they didn't say explicitly), then it encourages the jailbreak community to either stand up against piracy or openly support piracy.
I'm not sure how the jailbreak community is supposed to prevent piracy on non-jailbroken devices. That's kind of up to Apple (not that I think it's totally possible). Furthermore, show me where the leaders in the jailbreak community... those that develop the jailbreaks, those that develop Cydia, the larger jailbreak online communities aren't taking a stand against piracy.
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There's no negative effect for the developers because nobody cares that jailbreakers are upset at paying for a game that doesn't work properly. That's a consequence of a choice they made. If I hacked an XBox to play unofficial copies of games and a new game didn't work on it, I have absolutely no right to complain about it.
That's the exact failure in logic that these developers made, and then corrected. The restriction they implemented was entirely non-effective. The people who were complaining weren't those that jailbroke and pirated, because the pirated version of the game played fine on jailbroken and non-jailbroken devices. The only people they annoyed were the jailbreakers who wanted to play the paid-for version of the game.
So you can say those people have no right to complain, and I agree with that, but there's still the negative impact on the developers because each and every person who was affected by this was a jailbreaker who was trying to play a legitimate paid-for copy of the game or buy the game.
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Originally Posted by Marvin
You suggest that the numbers don't indicate jailbreakers are pirates by saying maybe they're not all bad and buying eventually.
No I didn't. I gave a whole host of reasons why the number you gave is heavily flawed. The two biggest reasons being that you're quoting the numbers from a disreputable site to begin with, and then ignoring the fact that you don't have to jailbreak to download cracked apps from that site.
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The act of downloading a file via these sites is theft and a significant portion of people who jailbreak are doing it.
You have no idea how many people who jailbroke have downloaded any app from that site.
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If that wasn't the case, Appcake, ipastore etc wouldn't be on Cydia and if jailbreakers were so against it, those apps would be banned from Cydia.
Appcake and IPAstore aren't on Cydia. No offense, but I think you're talking a lot about things that you don't know enough about to be making the conclusions that you're making. You apparently don't really understand how Cydia works. The developer of Cydia is strongly anti-piracy. No piracy apps are featured or promoted in Cydia. The developer of Cydia hosts no pirated apps. None of the default Cydia repositories host pirated apps. The apps that used to facilitate piracy on jailbroken devices, such as Installous, were hosted in non-default, 3rd party repositories. The way Cydia works, they could be no more banned from Cydia than Apple could've banned them from Safari.
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If jailbreakers are against piracy, why don't they ban piracy apps and sources from Cydia?
For the same reason Apple doesn't ban the piracy of apps. You're pointing the finger at the wrong people. I'll say it again because it's directly relevant to this question... you don't have to jailbreak to pirate apps. The Dev-Team, who have spoken out against piracy, can no more stop piracy on jailbroken devices than Apple can stop piracy on non-jailbroken devices. And again, Cydia has no sources of piracy any more than saying Safari has sources for piracy.
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If they choose to pirate rather than restore an Apple firmware then that just shows that jailbreakers tend more towards piracy than not.
No, not at all. If X% of non-jailbreakers pirate, and X% of jailbreakers pirate, where X=X, then it's foolish to add incentive to either one to benefit in functionality of the app if they pirate versus buy. In other words, the exact opposite would've been true. Had the developer restricted non-jailbroken devices on the purchased app, but the pirated app was not restricted, those with non-jailbroken devices would've had the same incentive to pirate. Whether either side would have to any degree is unknown.
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Ok but if you go to a piracy community you won't be. Look at the Appcake forum, it says 159,000 members - 4.5x more than Reddit and that's just one community.
Again, you're taking numbers from a disreputable site. Additionally, you're comparing members on one site where membership is required to participate to subscribers of another site where subscription has nothing to do with participation. I actively participate in many subreddits that I'm not subscribed to. But be that as it may what you're saying is that the largest piracy community you can point to is 4.5x larger than the largest jailbreak community. That sounds like there are a lot of non-jailbreakers that are pirating apps. The one thing it doesn't prove is that the jailbreaking community is a subset of the piracy community. Again though, the point remains, go to the jailbreak community and see what they're talking about... it's not piracy.
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That's assuming the 10% would be paying and they won't be.
That's not the point. If none of the jailbreakers paid, nobody would've even known about this. It's precisely because paying jailbreakers bought the game and complained that this is a story at all, and more so that they felt inclined to change things back.
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It doesn't matter if a few jailbreakers are leaving negative reviews.
Yes, it very much matters to them. They dropped an entire star rating. This lowers them in ranking and has a direct link to sales.
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I'm not against people jailbreaking their devices, I'm against people thinking they have a right to complain about consequences of the choices they make and think that other people should accommodate those choices.
I totally agree with you there. Note, I didn't leave a negative review for them. My point isn't that people had a right to complain, but rather that what the developers did was very foolish.
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All the developers have done here is state openly that they don't support jailbroken iOS.
No, there's a difference between not supporting something and intentionally disabling something. In this case, they didn't just find something didn't work, and instead of fixing it say that they weren't going to support it. They intentionally set about disabling functionality in the app for jailbreakers. Again, that's their right, and I'd support their right, but it was a very foolish thing to do.
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If they are implying that jailbreakers are pirates (which they didn't say explicitly), then it encourages the jailbreak community to either stand up against piracy or openly support piracy.
I'm not sure how the jailbreak community is supposed to prevent piracy on non-jailbroken devices. That's kind of up to Apple (not that I think it's totally possible). Furthermore, show me where the leaders in the jailbreak community... those that develop the jailbreaks, those that develop Cydia, the larger jailbreak online communities aren't taking a stand against piracy.
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There's no negative effect for the developers because nobody cares that jailbreakers are upset at paying for a game that doesn't work properly. That's a consequence of a choice they made. If I hacked an XBox to play unofficial copies of games and a new game didn't work on it, I have absolutely no right to complain about it.
That's the exact failure in logic that these developers made, and then corrected. The restriction they implemented was entirely non-effective. The people who were complaining weren't those that jailbroke and pirated, because the pirated version of the game played fine on jailbroken and non-jailbroken devices. The only people they annoyed were the jailbreakers who wanted to play the paid-for version of the game.
So you can say those people have no right to complain, and I agree with that, but there's still the negative impact on the developers because each and every person who was affected by this was a jailbreaker who was trying to play a legitimate paid-for copy of the game or buy the game.