Apple reportedly taps Samsung to build A9 SoCs for 2015 iPhones, iPads

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    ksecksec Posts: 1,569member
    [QUOTE]Doesn't sound weird to me. NVidia and AMD got burned several times by bad yields on TSMC processes[/QUOTE]

    The world, Media, and even Nvidia and AMD like the world to think it was all TSMC's fault. In reality it was not their fault.
  • Reply 22 of 38
    kdarlingkdarling Posts: 1,640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post



    I don't believe this sensational report one bit.



    There's more evidence Apple plans to produce their own chips, than there is for this.


     


    It makes total sense.  Samsung is well known for their leading fab tech and quality.  Those are features that Apple likes to include in their devices.


     


    As for Apple's plans, every experienced fab poster so far has said that it's unlikely that Apple plans to produce their own chips in a factory they will own and run themselves.


     


    It's far more likely (and in Apple's history) that they're heavily investing in someone else making the chips.

  • Reply 23 of 38
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by virtua View Post



    Maybe samsung needs apple more than apple needs samsung - could lead to special development for apple. And they do produce great chips and screens.




    I would say you have it backwards, Apple needs Samsung more than vice versa.  Samsung is a vertically integrated company.  If they need a display, they can make it.  If they need a processor, they can make it.  If they need a mobile OS, they can make it.  Samsung can make almost everything that comprises a leading edge mobile phone, in-house.


     


    It certainly helps Samsung's bottom line to have Apple as a customer as it contributes to economies of scale in their manufacturing activities, but their survival is not dependent on Apple's business.  As AI delights in pointing out, Apple have seemingly been distancing themselves from Samsung as a supplier, yet Samsung electronics' has been showing spectacular financial performance, with revenues and profits soaring, even as presumably, Apple's business with them declines.

  • Reply 24 of 38
    I think its because Apple has lost its most recents lawsuits so now they are bitterly returning back, hoping to find a new case to file against Samsung.
  • Reply 25 of 38
    poksipoksi Posts: 482member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post




    I would say you have it backwards, Apple needs Samsung more than vice versa.  Samsung is a vertically integrated company.  If they need a display, they can make it.  If they need a processor, they can make it.  If they need a mobile OS, they can make it.  Samsung can make almost everything that comprises a leading edge mobile phone, in-house.


     


    It certainly helps Samsung's bottom line to have Apple as a customer as it contributes to economies of scale in their manufacturing activities, but their survival is not dependent on Apple's business.  As AI delights in pointing out, Apple have seemingly been distancing themselves from Samsung as a supplier, yet Samsung electronics' has been showing spectacular financial performance, with revenues and profits soaring, even as presumably, Apple's business with them declines.



     


    Being vertically integrated company may not always be a good thing. AT the moment this seems like a Samsung's advantage, but only one false technological decision may trash it like a house of cards. It also cuts the competitive edge in a long turn.


    I also don't believe for a second Apple is investing anything in any chip fab company. This would be a worst choice: on one hand they make themselves as commodity to such supplier and on the other hand they still don't control whole process ant take whole profits.


     


    Apple has simply chosen to get the best price by prepaying for silicon and they are also spreading supplier count, so they can be less dependent on sole and make them more competitive. 


     


    However, they won't select any new supplier in the future that makes end products. I'm sure 110% Samsung has learned from their specs.

  • Reply 26 of 38
    poksipoksi Posts: 482member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by felisberto View Post



    I think its because Apple has lost its most recents lawsuits so now they are bitterly returning back, hoping to find a new case to file against Samsung.


     


    we needed a laugh today as any, but make a real joke, a moron can't laugh to this one.

  • Reply 27 of 38
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member
    Apple and Samsung seem to be like a quarrelling couple that keep on breaking up and getting back together again all the time - if there is any truth to this rumour.
  • Reply 28 of 38
    This could be part of some yet to be announced settlement in the Apple vs. Samsung case. Maybe Apple will get the chips for a song.
  • Reply 29 of 38
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    timbit wrote: »
    A9 in 2015!?!? Are they going right to A7 in September? No 6X I guess. A7 with iOS 7 :)

    Uh... 6X has been in use for months now.
    felisberto wrote: »
    I think its because Apple has lost its most recents lawsuits so now they are bitterly returning back, hoping to find a new case to file against Samsung.

    Were you dropped on your motion sensor as a child?
  • Reply 30 of 38
    virtuavirtua Posts: 209member
    I was thinking from the galaxy's sliding profit perspective, but maybe I did get it the wrong way round. The Samsung screens seem to be the best time and time again and they make great chips, ram and memory too.
  • Reply 31 of 38
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member
    Sounds like Samsung trying to manipulate their stock price up for once instead of making bullshit rumours to drive Apple shares down.
  • Reply 32 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by davidgoscinny View Post


    The A6X is already in use on the 4th generation iPad since last year as was the A5X for the 3rd generation. They're never used for iPhones as they're quite a bit more power hungry than their non-X counterparts.



     


    You're right on. The other reason the "X" chips are not used in the iPhone is that the smaller screens don't have a ton of pixels to push around like the iPads.

  • Reply 33 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by virtua View Post



    I was thinking from the galaxy's sliding profit perspective, but maybe I did get it the wrong way round. The Samsung screens seem to be the best time and time again and they make great chips, ram and memory too.


     


    Not sure what you're meaning...? Samsung CAN make Apple-quality screens, but they don't use them in their own products. 

  • Reply 34 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by felisberto View Post



    I think its because Apple has lost its most recents lawsuits so now they are bitterly returning back, hoping to find a new case to file against Samsung.


     


    Your post FAILS on every level. Apple will buy from Samsung if they offer what Apple wants at the best price on the market and in the incredible volumes Apple needs. Apple is very practical and not a petulant child.

  • Reply 35 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    WSJ rumors tend to be pretty reliable, so I don't think the original TSMC rumor was wrong. They probably signed contracts with both, i.e. all the TSMC action hasn't been about escaping Samsung entirely but just creating some competition.



    I totally agree. And for all we know TSMC might be second sourcing chips for the iPod Touch or a new product Apple will emerge with. Tim has said that watching Apple's vendors is no good way to predict what Apple is doing.

  • Reply 36 of 38
    kdarlingkdarling Posts: 1,640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poksi View Post


    Being vertically integrated company may not always be a good thing. AT the moment this seems like a Samsung's advantage, but only one false technological decision may trash it like a house of cards. It also cuts the competitive edge in a long turn.



     


    Samsung's been making both semiconductors and phones for a very long time now.


     


    Quote:


    I also don't believe for a second Apple is investing anything in any chip fab company. This would be a worst choice: on one hand they make themselves as commodity to such supplier and on the other hand they still don't control whole process ant take whole profits.



     


    Apple supposedly invested billions in one or more display makers, in order to help boost their production and R&D capabilities.

  • Reply 37 of 38
    qamfqamf Posts: 87member


    "summary:" It is possible that Apple could go to Samsung for 14nm, but IBM and Global Foundries share research with Samsung, meaning they would have the same tech.  And I believe Apple doesn't hate them as much as they hate Samsung.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rjc999 View Post


     


    Doesn't sound weird to me. NVidia and AMD got burned several times by bad yields on TSMC processes. Semiconductors require long lead times. The first processes at the 14nm node according to the ITRS is slated for sometime in 2014, which means it'll be ready for actual shipping products sometime in 2015. It takes 1-2 years to get to tape-out/first silicon, so if Apple is targeting the 14nm node for 2015, it needs to start designing for it now.


     


    Then it simply depends on which companies will have all of the tools, libraries, and fabs ready to go by 2015. If Apple doesn't trust TSMC and trusts Samsung more to deliver, they will go with Samsung.


     


    In reality, they will probably hedge their bets up to a certain "point of no return" where they have to design to go with a certain fab.


     


    Apple could just decide to go with a larger node, like 22nm, but since battery life, performance per watt, die size, heat, weight, etc are so critically tied to semiconductor node, Apple would be sacrifice lots of design advantages and cede leadership to their competitors. We're not talking "specs" as in Ghz, we're talking "how it works" designy stuff, like a device that is hotter, heavier, thicker, than competitors on a smaller node.


     


    The idea of Apple building their own fab in this time frame is ludicrous. They don't have any expertise building fabs, and even if they did, it takes even Intel or TSMC years to build them.



     


    AMD might have gotten burned, but they have not said anything publicly.  The only company that I know of that has publicly decried TSMC has been Nvidia.



    Who says they are going with TSMC for sub 20 nm?

    Samsung's R&D also goes into the "Common Platform" with the "leading edge" partners being: Samsung, IBM and Global Foundries.  If Samsung has 20nm tech, then Global Foundries will have it.  If the issues of tools comes up, I am sure Apple would be happy to buy tools in order to ensure they spite Samsung.  At least, that is my view.



    Apple is not building a fab anytime soon according to anyone that has any credible reputation.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jack99 View Post


    I don't think this has been stressed enough. Everyone here seems to be sticking to this fantasy that Apple can never fail in any venture it focuses on, even if it's an unrealistic one. Fabbing expertise isn't gained overnight. The fact that they've signed a contract that goes into 2015 and beyond signals it's probably not likely Apple is going into in-house fabbing anytime soon. And by anytime soon, I mean not for another 5 years, perhaps even more. 


     


    A lot can happen in that time frame. It's best to keep our feet planted on the ground and our head out of the clouds.



    Huh?  Apple is most likely partnering with a fabrication company (TSMC, Intel, Global Foundries and Samsung are the large ones, IBM is high tech, but low volume in my understanding).  So, they get to work with a company towards making a process like Intel did for Silvermont.

     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KDarling View Post


    It makes total sense.  Samsung is well known for their leading fab tech and quality.  Those are features that Apple likes to include in their devices.


     


    As for Apple's plans, every experienced fab poster so far has said that it's unlikely that Apple plans to produce their own chips in a factory they will own and run themselves.


     


    It's far more likely (and in Apple's history) that they're heavily investing in someone else making the chips.



    Yes, but once more: "Common Platform" if Global Foundries and IBM have the same technology and basically the same process why would Apple go to Samsung, who Apple seems to be trying to get away from.



    note: I believe Global Foundry fabs in New York are supposed to be online (mass production) by start of 2014.



    -QAMF

  • Reply 38 of 38
    virtuavirtua Posts: 209member
    Not sure what you're meaning...? Samsung CAN make Apple-quality screens, but they don't use them in their own products. 

    I'm talking about Samsung screens Apple use in their products. I was relieved to have a Samsung screen in my rmbp and think the Samsung fairs better than the lg in the mac airs too. Sharper.
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