Maybe just maybe developers should realize what takes place when a web site goes through a major overhaul. It is one thing for Joe Blow not to understand the technology but developers really have no excuse and should be able to give Apple a reasonable allotment of time here.
Quite the contrary.
Experienced enterprise website developers fully understand the need to have instant rollover to a new version, and quick rollback to a previous working version if necessary. And, of course, geographic redundancy.
There is no absolutely excuse for a company as big as Apple... especially with its own giant server farm(s)... to have websites that are down for normal maintenance or changes. Zero. None. It's like watching amateurs when they bring down their online store just to update it.
(My group has been doing major corporate web server based apps for a decade and a half. You could measure our server down time -- to our customers -- in just a handful of minutes per year. It's the doctrine of the five nines... 99.999% uptime.)
Now, if there was some really unforeseeable mass failure of parts across multiple sites, then we can cut some slack.
Yet, even so, remember how so many here knocked Microsoft (rightfully so) for the Sidekick server failure debacle? Or whenever RIM's servers blow up?
There is no absolutely excuse for a company as big as Apple... especially with its own giant server farm(s)... to have websites that are down for normal maintenance or changes. Zero. None. It's like watching amateurs when they bring down their online store just to update it.
Amateurs???
Trust me, it is not the end of the world, and there IS an excuse for it!
Think about this for a moment... When you move from one house to another, or say from one city to another, there is a small period of time in between when you are at neither the new location or the old location. That is what is happening here.
I've been doing such updates for many years.
It's not even close to being like being between houses. Computer programs are not like individual pieces of furniture.
Programs can be in two places at once. Done right, both old and new are in the same fully prepared state, and all you're doing is invisibly directing visitors to the new place.
If something goes wrong, you invisibly direct them back to the working version while you figure things out.
It's like having two radio stations... a primary and a backup.
It's not even close to being like being between houses. Computer programs are not like individual pieces of furniture.
Programs can be in two places at once. Done right, both old and new are in the same fully prepared state, and all you're doing is invisibly directing visitors to the new place.
If something goes wrong, you invisibly direct them back to the working version while you figure things out.
It's like having two radio stations... a primary and a backup.
You are pretty much wasting your breath. As a developer, I agree - it is pretty much mind blowing that a vital asset of one of the biggest tech companies on earth has been offline for this long. But there are plenty of people here who are unable to be objective, and arguing the point with them is simply not productive.
It's not even close to being like being between houses. Computer programs are not like individual pieces of furniture.
Programs can be in two places at once. Done right, both old and new are in the same fully prepared state, and all you're doing is invisibly directing visitors to the new place.
If something goes wrong, you invisibly direct them back to the working version while you figure things out.
It's like having two radio stations... a primary and a backup.
I have a feeling that the issue is quite a bit more complicated than simply switching between a primary and a backup.
You are pretty much wasting your breath. As a developer, I agree - it is pretty much mind blowing that a vital asset of one of the biggest tech companies on earth has been offline for this long.
I know for a fact that there is a new version of the bug reporting tool. It was online for a day or two before WWDC and then reverted to the old version. I would imagine they are bringing that online for an official release, and maybe upgrading some of the other tools for managing iOS and Mac App Store submissions.
You mean to say that it's not going to look like something from the 90s anymore?
This should be Cook's #1 priority...fixing Apple's cloud problems. They're not even close to being in the same league as Amazon, Google or Microsoft when it comes to the cloud. :no:
This should be Cook's #1 priority...fixing Apple's cloud problems. They're not even close to being in the same league as Amazon, Google or Microsoft when it comes to the cloud.
Is it even possible to have a company that is best as hardware, software and cloud? Do the different things require a different corporate culture? Is there just a limited number of people who are good at each, and Apple has the hardware people, Microsoft has the software people, and Google has the cloud people?
I completely agree with your point but Apple's cloud services have been so unforgivably bad for so long I am starting to wonder if what we want is even possible.
Is it even possible to have a company that is best as hardware, software and cloud? Do the different things require a different corporate culture? Is there just a limited number of people who are good at each, and Apple has the hardware people, Microsoft has the software people, and Google has the cloud people?
I completely agree with your point but Apple's cloud services have been so unforgivably bad for so long I am starting to wonder if what we want is even possible.
Apple's OS team can easily shift people from iOS to OS X and to different projects since - some specialisations apart - its mostly objective C.
Is it even possible to have a company that is best as hardware, software and cloud? Do the different things require a different corporate culture? Is there just a limited number of people who are good at each, and Apple has the hardware people, Microsoft has the software people, and Google has the cloud people?
I completely agree with your point but Apple's cloud services have been so unforgivably bad for so long I am starting to wonder if what we want is even possible.
Quite honestly I don't think Steve Jobs gave a crap about the cloud. And if he didn't care about something it probably didn't get the attention it deserved. I hope Tim Cook puts more effort around it.
Is it even possible to have a company that is best as hardware, software and cloud? Do the different things require a different corporate culture? Is there just a limited number of people who are good at each, and Apple has the hardware people, Microsoft has the software people, and Google has the cloud people?
I completely agree with your point but Apple's cloud services have been so unforgivably bad for so long I am starting to wonder if what we want is even possible.
I am amazed, can people really say this. Maybe there is something you don't like about the way Apple's cloud serves you. But Apples cloud service is used by 10s (maybe 100s) of millions of people all the time and they don't even know it. It is used to back up complicated computer software (on the iPhone and iPad) serve billions of apps and their updates, provide device location services, iTunes Match (which just works), maps services (which despite the media broo ha ha is a fairly amazing service to just roll out as they did), etc. etc. Check out the latest iWorks beta in the cloud. They provide the most ubiquitous and functional consumer cloud implementation out there, and to suggest otherwise says more about you.
That being said, I wish the damn developer site was back up
It seems that Apple does not work on the weekends. That's too bad because app developers do work on the weekends and this weekend many of us are stuck on issues in iOS 7 that we cannot solve without access to the dev center.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Maybe just maybe developers should realize what takes place when a web site goes through a major overhaul. It is one thing for Joe Blow not to understand the technology but developers really have no excuse and should be able to give Apple a reasonable allotment of time here.
Quite the contrary.
Experienced enterprise website developers fully understand the need to have instant rollover to a new version, and quick rollback to a previous working version if necessary. And, of course, geographic redundancy.
There is no absolutely excuse for a company as big as Apple... especially with its own giant server farm(s)... to have websites that are down for normal maintenance or changes. Zero. None. It's like watching amateurs when they bring down their online store just to update it.
(My group has been doing major corporate web server based apps for a decade and a half. You could measure our server down time -- to our customers -- in just a handful of minutes per year. It's the doctrine of the five nines... 99.999% uptime.)
Now, if there was some really unforeseeable mass failure of parts across multiple sites, then we can cut some slack.
Yet, even so, remember how so many here knocked Microsoft (rightfully so) for the Sidekick server failure debacle? Or whenever RIM's servers blow up?
I was going to google what you meant by $h!t happens! but the google site was down. I suppose these things happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
There is no absolutely excuse for a company as big as Apple... especially with its own giant server farm(s)... to have websites that are down for normal maintenance or changes. Zero. None. It's like watching amateurs when they bring down their online store just to update it.
Amateurs???
Trust me, it is not the end of the world, and there IS an excuse for it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
I was going to google what you meant by $h!t happens! but the google site was down. I suppose these things happen.
I just googled it and the results aren't even close to what I was implying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic
Think about this for a moment... When you move from one house to another, or say from one city to another, there is a small period of time in between when you are at neither the new location or the old location. That is what is happening here.
I've been doing such updates for many years.
It's not even close to being like being between houses. Computer programs are not like individual pieces of furniture.
Programs can be in two places at once. Done right, both old and new are in the same fully prepared state, and all you're doing is invisibly directing visitors to the new place.
If something goes wrong, you invisibly direct them back to the working version while you figure things out.
It's like having two radio stations... a primary and a backup.
It seemed a weird feeling that it was down random time, wonder what's happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
I've been doing such updates for many years.
It's not even close to being like being between houses. Computer programs are not like individual pieces of furniture.
Programs can be in two places at once. Done right, both old and new are in the same fully prepared state, and all you're doing is invisibly directing visitors to the new place.
If something goes wrong, you invisibly direct them back to the working version while you figure things out.
It's like having two radio stations... a primary and a backup.
You are pretty much wasting your breath. As a developer, I agree - it is pretty much mind blowing that a vital asset of one of the biggest tech companies on earth has been offline for this long. But there are plenty of people here who are unable to be objective, and arguing the point with them is simply not productive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
I've been doing such updates for many years.
It's not even close to being like being between houses. Computer programs are not like individual pieces of furniture.
Programs can be in two places at once. Done right, both old and new are in the same fully prepared state, and all you're doing is invisibly directing visitors to the new place.
If something goes wrong, you invisibly direct them back to the working version while you figure things out.
It's like having two radio stations... a primary and a backup.
I have a feeling that the issue is quite a bit more complicated than simply switching between a primary and a backup.
It happened, welcome to reality!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic
I have a feeling that the issue is quite a bit more complicated than simply switching between a primary and a backup.
Well.. having a backup is one thing, being able to restore the backup is another thing.
You mean to say that it's not going to look like something from the 90s anymore?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
This should be Cook's #1 priority...fixing Apple's cloud problems. They're not even close to being in the same league as Amazon, Google or Microsoft when it comes to the cloud.
Is it even possible to have a company that is best as hardware, software and cloud? Do the different things require a different corporate culture? Is there just a limited number of people who are good at each, and Apple has the hardware people, Microsoft has the software people, and Google has the cloud people?
I completely agree with your point but Apple's cloud services have been so unforgivably bad for so long I am starting to wonder if what we want is even possible.
that system is designed to reduce complexity and failures.
Apple's OS team can easily shift people from iOS to OS X and to different projects since - some specialisations apart - its mostly objective C.
Cloud skills are something else entirely.
/s
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
Is it even possible to have a company that is best as hardware, software and cloud? Do the different things require a different corporate culture? Is there just a limited number of people who are good at each, and Apple has the hardware people, Microsoft has the software people, and Google has the cloud people?
I completely agree with your point but Apple's cloud services have been so unforgivably bad for so long I am starting to wonder if what we want is even possible.
I am amazed, can people really say this. Maybe there is something you don't like about the way Apple's cloud serves you. But Apples cloud service is used by 10s (maybe 100s) of millions of people all the time and they don't even know it. It is used to back up complicated computer software (on the iPhone and iPad) serve billions of apps and their updates, provide device location services, iTunes Match (which just works), maps services (which despite the media broo ha ha is a fairly amazing service to just roll out as they did), etc. etc. Check out the latest iWorks beta in the cloud. They provide the most ubiquitous and functional consumer cloud implementation out there, and to suggest otherwise says more about you.
That being said, I wish the damn developer site was back up
It seems that Apple does not work on the weekends. That's too bad because app developers do work on the weekends and this weekend many of us are stuck on issues in iOS 7 that we cannot solve without access to the dev center.
Yep¡
Nope¡