Fact is consumers don't need Windows or Office. Microsoft still doesn't get that.
That could also apply to many businesses and non consumer users. Many have been brainwashed into believing they need Word or Excel for their business needs, many do of course but often there are better ways to attack today's business needs.
As for consumers there use to be this mind set that they needed the same tools at home as they have at work. Even here people are learning to do better.
Go watch the Surface event from last July. It was all Windows, Windows, Windows. Heck Microsoft's new logo is a Windows logo.
Marketing based on past success is always risky. This is one thing that Apple is careful about iOS devices can partner with Mac OS devices or stand alone. Apples marketing is far broader for iOS devices and they feel no reservations about implying that an iPad might be all you need.
The other thing Microsoft doesn't get is people are perfectly fine with tablets being mostly consumption devices.
Some may be but I'm still a bit frustrated with Apples attitude with respect to some functionality and access to that functionality. IPads would be fantastic for people interested in robotics for example except for the difficulty of connecting to more modest devices.
I think we're finding out that a large number of consumers were really using their PCs mostly for consumption purposes. Email, web surfing, watching movies, etc. Tablets now provide all those services in a much more convenient form factor.
I'm not convinced that form factor is the major contributor here. The always there and always connected nature of the operating system and the key apps has a huge influence on satisfaction. If Apple would provide an AIR or a MBP with built in cell support I might be tempted to consider replacing an iPad with a Mac. Right now though I just enjoy the split.
And since people are using PCs less frequently, the need to upgrade isn't really there. Google and Amazon don't help Microsoft's cause as they're pushing tablets as cheap consumption devices that they don't need to make any money on. Can Microsoft really afford to get in to a race to the bottom there?
In some ways I think MS is screwed. Surface highlights just how bad their OS development teams are. Being a product rushed to market is not an excuse here, a little discipline and focus would have allowed them to deliver a solid if constrained release. Instead they tried to throw in the kitchen sink and ended up with an OS that isn't even stable.
As a happy iPad users I do beleive that there are openings for a solid competitor. Unfortunately nobody has that right now. For some uses simple features such as unrestricted USB port access, with solid driver support, would be very attractive. In any event MS would have gathered far more interest with an Open Source operating system as the base layer of their device. BSD or Linux with for example could have provided for a base upon which to ship an MS proprietary SDK. I have to wonder if MS did any research at all when it comes to what people want or for that matter like about Apples solutions.
I understand you want technology to stand still. I suppose it makes sense on a psychological point of view.
I'd prefer that you looked at it through a different lens. Mine may have a bit more estrogen in it, but the more Microsoft spends on it's tablet the better the iPad will be in the future.
I think we should all cheer Microsoft on and encourage them to spend an absorbent amount of money researching what really does work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Absorbent ??? Perhaps you meant to say exorbitant, as in excessive ?
Absorbent might be correct if toilet paper was meant for wiping away the crap. I recommend Charmin as it is softer and MS is going to need and use a lot of it to clean up this whole mess that is Surface.
Well, I feel sorry for you if you can only feel good when you're looking down on others.
...
Why isn't it enough to feel good about the success of Apple? Why the need to (with great exaggerations) 'diss' their competitors?
...
By the way, being called names by certain people is no offense to me...
I think you are on to something here. Maybe Microsoft should follow your holier-than-thou attitude and abandon their attacks on the iPad in their commercials See what I did there? Re-read what you wrote from the point of view of Apple engineer's designs being attacked by Microsoft in their adds.
You know, this type of holier-than-thou rhetoric is best reserved for church and for people who are trying to find a way to cope with living their lives with liars, sinners, alcoholics, and drug addicts . I kicked out that good-for-nothing bumm "Microsoft" many years ago after many long attempts to fix him up. Wasted nights, weekends, crying myself to sleep at night and waiting for promises that it will all be better in the next release. Fool me once shame on him, fool me 10 times shame on me.
When Microsoft is at death's door and shows signs of coming out with something revolutionary, then I may talk to him again. Until then, I have disowned him.
For years, Microsoft's profits from its Windows division funded all these sideshow hardware products that ultimately failed. But now that PC sales are falling--causing sales of Windows licenses to fall--causing Microsoft's stock price to drop 11%, I wonder if Microsoft's hardware days are numbered. The board should have dumped Ballmer in 2007, but definitely in 2013.
Sometimes I wish I could take a leadership role at MS to develop a product derived from my vision of what is needed. I look at the energy wasted to produce surface, basically a piece of crap and have to think I could have done better probably with a smaller staff than MS employees. Mind you I have no experience developing hardware or software at this scale but I'm certain I could be giving Apple at least a little competition. Further i would not have released a product that barely runs.
As to Ballmer he will likely be around for a long while. For whatever reason MS always gets a pass when they screw up. As MS is currently structured I'm not sure they can even work their way out of the box they painted themselves into. Yes I know about the current restructuring but MS has a host of problem that are endemic with in the company that are not addressed by the shake up.
This is almost the epitome of the smarmy attitude that makes many people not want to use Apple products. Never mind that Apple makes great products, they just don't want be associated with, well... this.
Complete, utter poppycock. Total nonsense.The only people who "do not want to use Apple products" are the haters who post in Apple forums. The hubris, arrogance, condescension, and holier-than-thou ignorance of Windows and Android fanboys, and their sycophants, greatly exceeds any perceived superiority complex on the part of Apple fans.
As a happy iPad users I do beleive that there are openings for a solid competitor. Unfortunately nobody has that right now. For some uses simple features such as unrestricted USB port access, with solid driver support, would be very attractive. In any event MS would have gathered far more interest with an Open Source operating system as the base layer of their device. BSD or Linux with for example could have provided for a base upon which to ship an MS proprietary SDK. I have to wonder if MS did any research at all when it comes to what people want or for that matter like about Apples solutions.
Your last 3 sentences intrigue me...
Do you really think that MS has the time to build the necessary layers atop BSD or Linux? It has taken Apple quite a few years to extend OSX to iOS with touch, CoreData, CoreAnimation, etc...
Apparently Tizen is an attempt to do just that -- and I suspect that that effort is well behind iOS.
But, in some aspects I agree with you... The OS itself doesn't really matter -- as long as it gets out of the way and lets the user interact with his stuff...
Yet, that means the apps/content/ecosystem rules the day -- would a different OS resolve that?
Complete, utter poppycock. Total nonsense.The only people who "do not want to use Apple products" are the haters who post in Apple forums. The hubris, arrogance, condescension, and holier-than-thou ignorance of Windows and Android fanboys, and their sycophants, greatly exceeds any perceived superiority complex on the part of Apple fans.
Microsoft's biggest competitor is themselves. They drove me to Apple. I would not consider Apple's stuff so good, if I had never seen how bad it could be with Microsoft.
I want to buy the best product that benefits ME best. With Android, their business model does not work for me. I don't want to be the product, I want to buy one. I can exploit myself for free on Facebook. I don't need to pay for the privilege for an device that does that for me automatically. Its a no brainier to me.
Even after the PRISM scandal there are still some of you that think Apple doesn't collect your data just like Google, MS, FB, etc.?
They've done it in the past and then 'stopped' yet data still managed to get collected as evidenced by the PRISM leak. Trust me, Apple, MS, Google, and FB are all into "Big Data" and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
flopped? huh? Right now Sony is selling the most games. the most hardware. the most everything. Do you have a better source than VGChartz? Please share where you got your information. The only flop right now is Nintendo with the Wii U
lol your own VGChartz shows that almost every multiplatform game that gets released on Xbox 360 and PS3 sells more on Xbox 360
Every COD game has outsold on Xbox 360 over PS3
Almost EVERY IP for Xbox 360 has outsold PS3 IP
Skyrim Xbox 360 over PS3
Top Selling Xbox 360 game DWARFS the top selling PS3 Exclusive by 2:1 in global sales
It's also worth mentioning that Xbox 360 did PATHETIC in the Japanese market, and even doing so horrible, completely takes over PS3 in terms of game sales.
This along with the fact that Sony lost around $5 Billion on the PS3 while Microsoft lost around $3 Billion
So like I said, PS3 has NOT dominated the gaming market (most people that bought it probably got it for the Blu Ray) and sucks in profits. So yes, It's a FLOP!
I think you do DED a disservice. He has far more things he dislikes about Microsoft that what was written here .
Seriously though, I thought he was very reserved, selective and kept it to just what was appropriate. I promote his narrative too when and wherever I can. It's called the true history of micro computers since the late 70's to the present day.
I agree with the true history part. Maybe Dick was too close to the business part of the industry.
Microsoft nearly destroyed the personal computer with their incompetence, their unwillingness to say no, their willingness to say yes to bloat.
It's the same American trait that allowed GM and Ford to keep making urban battleships when the Japanese were flooding the market with nimble runabouts. Now Detroit is bankrupt.
I would hate to see Seattle go bankrupt. But we see it could happen
Typical DED rehash of what he disliked about MS over the years... with a few updates.
It is worth noting that the article contains 18 links -- 12 (or 2/3) of these are links to other DED articles.
Clearly he has a narrative to promote.
I think you do DED a disservice. He has far more things he dislikes about Microsoft that what was written here .
Seriously though, I thought he was very reserved, selective and kept it to just what was appropriate. I promote his narrative too when and wherever I can. It's called the true history of micro computers since the late 70's to the present day.
Hey, guys I dislike MS as much as the next guy... including DED!
I just try not to let my emotions confuse/color my logic.
MS Has done some good things and deserves credit for them -- early Word, Excel, Access -- not to mention investing in Apple ($ and Office Support) when Steve returned. Sure, these were driven by self interest,,, but who / what public company isn't?
IMO, the problem with DED's rants is they are usually a verbose over-the-top rehash of the same-old, same-old. They give the impression of recounting history -- but you have only DED's perspective and no conflicting facts or points of view are included. And, if you post any challenge to an AI article of his -- he often takes issue and demeans the challenge and poster using the pseudonym "Corrections". Why is that permitted?
Sometimes, though very seldom, I am pleasantly surprised by a a concise, unbiased DED article.
Even after the PRISM scandal there are still some of you that think Apple doesn't collect your data just like Google, MS, FB, etc.?
They've done it in the past and then 'stopped' yet data still managed to get collected as evidenced by the PRISM leak. Trust me, Apple, MS, Google, and FB are all into "Big Data" and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
Key phrase was "business model". That fact that you chose to take things out of context and overlook this key point tells me your response to what I am typing now is will be moot.
The Surface is an utter failure as a tablet because it's NOT a tablet. It's a Windows PC with a removable touch screen. Besides not being very good at building PC's (don't even get me started on Windows 8) Microsoft has violated the 'prime directive' by competing directly with their OEM partners especially Dell and HP. Then there's the issue of Pro vs. RT and having multiple versions of the same application making it extra challanging for developers. IMHO, Microsoft has messed up on multiple fronts and deserves to get spanked by the market. The best thing MS could do is sell off or kill their hardware divisions and develop versions of MS Office for iOS and Android...
Remember when IBM was the only company that mattered in what was then called Data Processing? Then along came Microsoft and stepped right over them to ride the PC revolution wave. Then it was MS's turn to get fat and lazy as Apple did the same to them with the hand-held revolution. Here's hoping Apple can avoid the fate of previous front-runners.
Not even Microsoft understands what's wrong. I'd say it's still a matter of taste.
I'm sure a lot of people at Microsoft knows what went wrong but keep their lips zipped to keep their job. Uncle Fester insists on "Windows everywhere" and doesn't understand that users in general hate dealing with Windows... especially Windows that doesn't look like Windows. Then, of course, Microsoft
Apple had the good sense to base iOS on core OSX, but not call it the same thing. Apple had the good sense to optimize the UI for the iDevice, and optimize the hardware internals for a snappy response and a long battery life. There are features being added in iOS7 that could have been included long ago ( like opening up multitasking to third-party developers), but to do so may have destabilized the platform experience or made it subject to exploits.
As for taste, as you say, it is so lacking at Microsoft that it just taints the already bad UI and the user experience until most users want to escape Windows all together. Meanwhile Uncle Fester is insisting that they need it thrust down their throats like his intent is to make a worldwide supply of pâté, foie gras.
Everyone is a member of the "consumer market" -- even business/enterprise/government etc.
Is that why Microsoft Windows tells you to "Contact your administrator" whenever an error occurred? Because that was really helpful for consumers... /s
Comments
That could also apply to many businesses and non consumer users. Many have been brainwashed into believing they need Word or Excel for their business needs, many do of course but often there are better ways to attack today's business needs.
As for consumers there use to be this mind set that they needed the same tools at home as they have at work. Even here people are learning to do better. Marketing based on past success is always risky. This is one thing that Apple is careful about iOS devices can partner with Mac OS devices or stand alone. Apples marketing is far broader for iOS devices and they feel no reservations about implying that an iPad might be all you need. Some may be but I'm still a bit frustrated with Apples attitude with respect to some functionality and access to that functionality. IPads would be fantastic for people interested in robotics for example except for the difficulty of connecting to more modest devices. I'm not convinced that form factor is the major contributor here. The always there and always connected nature of the operating system and the key apps has a huge influence on satisfaction. If Apple would provide an AIR or a MBP with built in cell support I might be tempted to consider replacing an iPad with a Mac. Right now though I just enjoy the split.
In some ways I think MS is screwed. Surface highlights just how bad their OS development teams are. Being a product rushed to market is not an excuse here, a little discipline and focus would have allowed them to deliver a solid if constrained release. Instead they tried to throw in the kitchen sink and ended up with an OS that isn't even stable.
As a happy iPad users I do beleive that there are openings for a solid competitor. Unfortunately nobody has that right now. For some uses simple features such as unrestricted USB port access, with solid driver support, would be very attractive. In any event MS would have gathered far more interest with an Open Source operating system as the base layer of their device. BSD or Linux with for example could have provided for a base upon which to ship an MS proprietary SDK. I have to wonder if MS did any research at all when it comes to what people want or for that matter like about Apples solutions.
Again i was trying to be helpful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania
I understand you want technology to stand still. I suppose it makes sense on a psychological point of view.
I'd prefer that you looked at it through a different lens. Mine may have a bit more estrogen in it, but the more Microsoft spends on it's tablet the better the iPad will be in the future.
I think we should all cheer Microsoft on and encourage them to spend an absorbent amount of money researching what really does work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Absorbent ??? Perhaps you meant to say exorbitant, as in excessive ?Absorbent might be correct if toilet paper was meant for wiping away the crap. I recommend Charmin as it is softer and MS is going to need and use a lot of it to clean up this whole mess that is Surface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdir
Well, I feel sorry for you if you can only feel good when you're looking down on others.
...
Why isn't it enough to feel good about the success of Apple? Why the need to (with great exaggerations) 'diss' their competitors?
...
By the way, being called names by certain people is no offense to me...
I think you are on to something here. Maybe Microsoft should follow your holier-than-thou attitude and abandon their attacks on the iPad in their commercials See what I did there? Re-read what you wrote from the point of view of Apple engineer's designs being attacked by Microsoft in their adds.
You know, this type of holier-than-thou rhetoric is best reserved for church and for people who are trying to find a way to cope with living their lives with liars, sinners, alcoholics, and drug addicts . I kicked out that good-for-nothing bumm "Microsoft" many years ago after many long attempts to fix him up. Wasted nights, weekends, crying myself to sleep at night and waiting for promises that it will all be better in the next release. Fool me once shame on him, fool me 10 times shame on me.
When Microsoft is at death's door and shows signs of coming out with something revolutionary, then I may talk to him again. Until then, I have disowned him.
Sometimes I wish I could take a leadership role at MS to develop a product derived from my vision of what is needed. I look at the energy wasted to produce surface, basically a piece of crap and have to think I could have done better probably with a smaller staff than MS employees. Mind you I have no experience developing hardware or software at this scale but I'm certain I could be giving Apple at least a little competition. Further i would not have released a product that barely runs.
As to Ballmer he will likely be around for a long while. For whatever reason MS always gets a pass when they screw up. As MS is currently structured I'm not sure they can even work their way out of the box they painted themselves into. Yes I know about the current restructuring but MS has a host of problem that are endemic with in the company that are not addressed by the shake up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood
This is almost the epitome of the smarmy attitude that makes many people not want to use Apple products. Never mind that Apple makes great products, they just don't want be associated with, well... this.
Complete, utter poppycock. Total nonsense.The only people who "do not want to use Apple products" are the haters who post in Apple forums. The hubris, arrogance, condescension, and holier-than-thou ignorance of Windows and Android fanboys, and their sycophants, greatly exceeds any perceived superiority complex on the part of Apple fans.
Your last 3 sentences intrigue me...
Do you really think that MS has the time to build the necessary layers atop BSD or Linux? It has taken Apple quite a few years to extend OSX to iOS with touch, CoreData, CoreAnimation, etc...
Apparently Tizen is an attempt to do just that -- and I suspect that that effort is well behind iOS.
But, in some aspects I agree with you... The OS itself doesn't really matter -- as long as it gets out of the way and lets the user interact with his stuff...
Yet, that means the apps/content/ecosystem rules the day -- would a different OS resolve that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Complete, utter poppycock. Total nonsense.The only people who "do not want to use Apple products" are the haters who post in Apple forums. The hubris, arrogance, condescension, and holier-than-thou ignorance of Windows and Android fanboys, and their sycophants, greatly exceeds any perceived superiority complex on the part of Apple fans.
Microsoft's biggest competitor is themselves. They drove me to Apple. I would not consider Apple's stuff so good, if I had never seen how bad it could be with Microsoft.
I want to buy the best product that benefits ME best. With Android, their business model does not work for me. I don't want to be the product, I want to buy one. I can exploit myself for free on Facebook. I don't need to pay for the privilege for an device that does that for me automatically. Its a no brainier to me.
Even after the PRISM scandal there are still some of you that think Apple doesn't collect your data just like Google, MS, FB, etc.?
They've done it in the past and then 'stopped' yet data still managed to get collected as evidenced by the PRISM leak. Trust me, Apple, MS, Google, and FB are all into "Big Data" and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
lol your own VGChartz shows that almost every multiplatform game that gets released on Xbox 360 and PS3 sells more on Xbox 360
Every COD game has outsold on Xbox 360 over PS3
Almost EVERY IP for Xbox 360 has outsold PS3 IP
Skyrim Xbox 360 over PS3
Top Selling Xbox 360 game DWARFS the top selling PS3 Exclusive by 2:1 in global sales
It's also worth mentioning that Xbox 360 did PATHETIC in the Japanese market, and even doing so horrible, completely takes over PS3 in terms of game sales.
This along with the fact that Sony lost around $5 Billion on the PS3 while Microsoft lost around $3 Billion
So like I said, PS3 has NOT dominated the gaming market (most people that bought it probably got it for the Blu Ray) and sucks in profits. So yes, It's a FLOP!
Hey, guys I dislike MS as much as the next guy... including DED!
I just try not to let my emotions confuse/color my logic.
MS Has done some good things and deserves credit for them -- early Word, Excel, Access -- not to mention investing in Apple ($ and Office Support) when Steve returned. Sure, these were driven by self interest,,, but who / what public company isn't?
IMO, the problem with DED's rants is they are usually a verbose over-the-top rehash of the same-old, same-old. They give the impression of recounting history -- but you have only DED's perspective and no conflicting facts or points of view are included. And, if you post any challenge to an AI article of his -- he often takes issue and demeans the challenge and poster using the pseudonym "Corrections". Why is that permitted?
Sometimes, though very seldom, I am pleasantly surprised by a a concise, unbiased DED article.
Nailed it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Mmm...
Typical DED rehash of what he disliked about MS over the years... with a few updates.
It is worth noting that the article contains 18 links -- 12 (or 2/3) of these are links to other DED articles.
Clearly he has a narrative to promote.
The links are to articles that provide context about what's being said. No conspiracy theory needed.
I've found that linking to outside sites frequently results in dead links because everyone radically changes their URL scheme every six months.
Key phrase was "business model". That fact that you chose to take things out of context and overlook this key point tells me your response to what I am typing now is will be moot.
How well has that worked out for Sega?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
Not even Microsoft understands what's wrong. I'd say it's still a matter of taste.
I'm sure a lot of people at Microsoft knows what went wrong but keep their lips zipped to keep their job. Uncle Fester insists on "Windows everywhere" and doesn't understand that users in general hate dealing with Windows... especially Windows that doesn't look like Windows. Then, of course, Microsoft
Apple had the good sense to base iOS on core OSX, but not call it the same thing. Apple had the good sense to optimize the UI for the iDevice, and optimize the hardware internals for a snappy response and a long battery life. There are features being added in iOS7 that could have been included long ago ( like opening up multitasking to third-party developers), but to do so may have destabilized the platform experience or made it subject to exploits.
As for taste, as you say, it is so lacking at Microsoft that it just taints the already bad UI and the user experience until most users want to escape Windows all together. Meanwhile Uncle Fester is insisting that they need it thrust down their throats like his intent is to make a worldwide supply of pâté, foie gras.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Everyone is a member of the "consumer market" -- even business/enterprise/government etc.
Is that why Microsoft Windows tells you to "Contact your administrator" whenever an error occurred? Because that was really helpful for consumers... /s