20% seems low for the i4 given that they are given away for 'free' Does the data count the iPhone 5's given away as a free upgrade as a sale? My guess is yes since Apple still gets their subsidy and that would obviously skew things in the 5's direction. 'Free' is pretty powerful in the US.
Its only Free to the customer, remember. Apple still gets full price from the carrier.
What matters is the international mix, not the US mix. The US numbers are about what I was hoping for globally, which might not speak well for everyone.
I wonder what percentage of people selected the 4S because of the dock connector.
How murky do things get with these new upgrade options from all the major US carriers?
Until now it has been pretty simple with Flagship = $199, Last Year = $99, 2 Years Prior = $0. in terms of up front cost for upgrade eligible and new customers....
But now, everyone is going to have the 'option' of getting the iPhone 5S for $0 up front. Yes, you end up paying more over time with the monthly addition, but I'm not debating whether or not it is a good idea. Just that, its a reality, that lots of people will bite at. Personally I think it is a brilliant move by the carriers as they found a way to take even more money from customers, while giving people what they 'want' which is the ability to upgrade when new phones are released, without shelling out over $400 up front.
What matters is the international mix, not the US mix. The US numbers are about what I was hoping for globally, which might not speak well for everyone.
I wonder what percentage of people selected the 4S because of the dock connector.
How murky do things get with these new upgrade options from all the major US carriers?
Until now it has been pretty simple with Flagship = $199, Last Year = $99, 2 Years Prior = $0. in terms of up front cost for upgrade eligible and new customers....
But now, everyone is going to have the 'option' of getting the iPhone 5S for $0 up front. Yes, you end up paying more over time with the monthly addition, but I'm not debating whether or not it is a good idea. Just that, its a reality, that lots of people will bite at. Personally I think it is a brilliant move by the carriers as they found a way to take even more money from customers, while giving people what they 'want' which is the ability to upgrade when new phones are released, without shelling out over $400 up front.
I don't think that it's $0 upfront with any of the new plans.
1. We hear reports all the time of how incredibly successful the venture has been to continue selling New iPhones of the previous and previous 2 generations, as lower price points.
THIS is why Apple is being smart this year, and finally building a NEW phone...[in place of the old ones]
Not Yet Fact, but obviously going to be:
I don't believe you understand how fact works.
1. Apple has decided that they can capitalize on an already successful market segment: the people that buy previous generations would be even more inclined to buy a current generation if they were priced the same and, well, were the only 'New' option in that category.
So sell fewer of the actually new, actually good phone model because idiots are buying the cheap one, costing Apple profits, and then whining about how it doesn't work as well as the other model, but that it should because it's "new".
Is that a good plan?
-they won't have to maintain out of date manufacturing processes and assembly lines.
Counterpoint: the return on their investment into said manufacturing processes and assembly lines is cut by a large amount. I'd say a third, but I'm sure jragosta or others who've experience in the drop-off of old product in the manufacturing industry could give you a more accurate number.
-they can have one cohesive and evolvable manufacturing process.
Counterpoint: you mean the one they already do?
-they can have one design that fits the market segment even better.
Counterpoint: If all the whining and idiocy is about having different models, how is having one design able to fit the market better? Additionally, since everything we've seen doesn't have anywhere near the same design, why would you think this is the case anyway?
-they can charge a little bit less (not much) for the device when off contract is considered (probably around $399).
Counterpoint: Causing the idiots who want a cheap iPhone to not be happy in the first place and to continue whining, solving no problems but creating many new ones.
Counterpoint: Causing the idiots who want a cheap iPhone to not be happy in the first place and to continue whining, solving no problems but creating many new ones.
The problem it will solve is declining share outside the US. The problems it will cause will be none.
I don't think that it's $0 upfront with any of the new plans.
Then you haven't looked at it all. That is basally 50% of the entire incentive/purpose. The other 50% being every 12 months (or 6 months for some) eligibility.
Then you haven't looked at it all. That is basally 50% of the entire incentive/purpose. The other 50% being every 12 months (or 6 months for some) eligibility.
I have been looking at all of the major plans as I may leave VZ this fall. I haven't seen any iPhone 5's for $0 down. Cheapest has been $20.
There is just no end to people's lack of understanding.
Is it really that hard to understand? Do you honestly need it spelled out?
P.R.I.C.E.
The reason 30% of Apple's iPhone sales last month were a 2011 phone is because it was HALF the up front cost of the iPhone 5. There are a lot of people that simply don't care. There are a lot of people that are not going to make a buying decision based on much else other than PRICE....
50% iPhone 5
30% iPhone 4S..
That leaves the remaining 20%....which was the iPhone 4. Again, major price influenced decision here. This has been the case almost every year since Apple started offering last year's phone, and the one before that as Free.
THIS is why Apple is being smart this year, and finally building a NEW phone to introduce into the $0 w/ contract and $99 w/ contract price point. These points are HUGE< MASSIVE < UNBELIVABLE. And account for HALF, 50% of all of Apple's iPhone sales at any given time.
You're trying too hard to make price a winning factor here. If price were a major factor then the iPhone 4 would be higher in unit sales than the iPhone 4S. Your conclusion that an even cheaper iPhone would outsell the iPhone 4 isn't supported by the current data.
"But but but but but the iPhone 5 isn't selling! It's just the same thing Apple has always made! People don't want rehashes anymore! They're on to your tricks, Apple!"
Ah, remember that in the first quarter it was available? You'd think people that stupid would learn to shut up.
Stats do show the 5S is sellling less than the 4s was. In OCT 2011, the high end 4s iphone had 90% of the sales while in oct 2012, the 5s had 68% of the sales. It looks like the high end phone is selling less than before. Would be interesting to see what will happen this year.
Q1, 2012 - 37 millions iphones sale with 90% 4s = 33.3 millions 4s sold.
Q1, 2013 - 47 millions iphones sale with 68% 5s = 31.9 millions 5s sold.
Biggest quarter for the iphone 4 was 18 millions in Q3 2011. So:
NOW: Apple sells past year phones, which are cheaper to manufacture now that they're older technology at lower price points to fill out the product line:
FUTURE: (Hopefully) Apple has two iPhone products, both of which are updated each year. One of which is the continuation of the current model. The second being a new model using generally cheaper to manufacture methods, and slightly older components to hit lower price points in the pre-paid markets.
Apple's current strategy is working ok, but making a second phone line designed to address the medium of the pre-pay market will probably turbo-charge things.
And with the volumes they're doing now, it makes economics sense to carry two distinct designs and update them each year.
I don't believe you understand how fact works.
So sell fewer of the actually new, actually good phone model because idiots are buying the cheap one, costing Apple profits, and then whining about how it doesn't work as well as the other model, but that it should because it's "new".
Is that a good plan?
Counterpoint: the return on their investment into said manufacturing processes and assembly lines is cut by a large amount. I'd say a third, but I'm sure jragosta or others who've experience in the drop-off of old product in the manufacturing industry could give you a more accurate number.
Counterpoint: you mean the one they already do?
Counterpoint: If all the whining and idiocy is about having different models, how is having one design able to fit the market better? Additionally, since everything we've seen doesn't have anywhere near the same design, why would you think this is the case anyway?
Counterpoint: Causing the idiots who want a cheap iPhone to not be happy in the first place and to continue whining, solving no problems but creating many new ones.
You're waaay over thinking it.
First of all, I don't think selling old phones is stupid. You misinterpreted that. It has been brilliantly successful for Apple. But you have to establish WHY it has been so successful for Apple before passing judgment on their next move.
IMO, the data provides a clear story: Selling old phones is successful because even though some people prefer to have the latest and greatest and don't mind paying $200 or more for it, there are just as many people who would prefer to spend less, and still get an iPhone. Its called choice.
Apple is preparing to offer the same choice, but better. By having "new" devices that they believe appeal best to this market segment.
NOW: Apple sells past year phones, which are cheaper to manufacture now that they're older technology at lower price points to fill out the product line:
FUTURE: (Hopefully) Apple has two iPhone products, both of which are updated each year. One of which is the continuation of the current model. The second being a new model using generally cheaper to manufacture methods, and slightly older components to hit lower price points in the pre-paid markets.
Apple's current strategy is working ok, but making a second phone line designed to address the medium of the pre-pay market will probably turbo-charge things.
And with the volumes they're doing now, it makes economics sense to carry two distinct designs and update them each year.
This is what I'm saying. Somehow, this is impossible for others to comprehend. Although, certain people like to argue just for the sake of arguing.
You're trying too hard to make price a winning factor here. If price were a major factor then the iPhone 4 would be higher in unit sales than the iPhone 4S. Your conclusion that an even cheaper iPhone would outsell the iPhone 4 isn't supported by the current data.
Its not that black and white. If price were the only factor no iPhone 5 would have ever sold, would it? Same logic extends to 4 vs. 4S.
Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say price being the only factor.
My point remains-- you have no data to support a cheaper iPhone being more popular in terms of units sold. Your argument is pure speculation.
Both the 4S and the 4 are competing with the secondary market. My nephew got an iPhone 4 for Christmas and when i asked my brother was it "new" - that is from Apple he laughed. He got it cheaper on eBay. With 2-3 models per year he would probably have gotten the cheapest of this years model, which would in any case have better software support. The market for the mini is now bigger than the iPad 4 by some margin, but the 3 outsold the 2.
Both the 4S and the 4 are competing with the secondary market. My nephew got an iPhone 4 for Christmas and when i asked my brother was it "new" - that is from Apple he laughed. He got it cheaper on eBay. With 2-3 models per year he would probably have gotten the cheapest of this years model, which would in any case have better software support. The market for the mini is now bigger than the iPad 4 by some margin, but the 3 outsold the 2.
A single data point does not make a trend. That's what surveys and sales numbers are for.
Comments
But the fandroids have personal anecdotes to back up their claims!
Its only Free to the customer, remember. Apple still gets full price from the carrier.
I wonder what percentage of people selected the 4S because of the dock connector.
How murky do things get with these new upgrade options from all the major US carriers?
Until now it has been pretty simple with Flagship = $199, Last Year = $99, 2 Years Prior = $0. in terms of up front cost for upgrade eligible and new customers....
But now, everyone is going to have the 'option' of getting the iPhone 5S for $0 up front. Yes, you end up paying more over time with the monthly addition, but I'm not debating whether or not it is a good idea. Just that, its a reality, that lots of people will bite at. Personally I think it is a brilliant move by the carriers as they found a way to take even more money from customers, while giving people what they 'want' which is the ability to upgrade when new phones are released, without shelling out over $400 up front.
Zero. I don't need data to make that statement.
I don't think that it's $0 upfront with any of the new plans.
Right. And you think that's stupid:
I don't believe you understand how fact works.
So sell fewer of the actually new, actually good phone model because idiots are buying the cheap one, costing Apple profits, and then whining about how it doesn't work as well as the other model, but that it should because it's "new".
Is that a good plan?
Counterpoint: the return on their investment into said manufacturing processes and assembly lines is cut by a large amount. I'd say a third, but I'm sure jragosta or others who've experience in the drop-off of old product in the manufacturing industry could give you a more accurate number.
Counterpoint: you mean the one they already do?
Counterpoint: If all the whining and idiocy is about having different models, how is having one design able to fit the market better? Additionally, since everything we've seen doesn't have anywhere near the same design, why would you think this is the case anyway?
Counterpoint: Causing the idiots who want a cheap iPhone to not be happy in the first place and to continue whining, solving no problems but creating many new ones.
The problem it will solve is declining share outside the US. The problems it will cause will be none.
Then you haven't looked at it all. That is basally 50% of the entire incentive/purpose. The other 50% being every 12 months (or 6 months for some) eligibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
But to me, verbosity without substance is poof.
...except apparently when it comes from yourself, obviously. /s
I have been looking at all of the major plans as I may leave VZ this fall. I haven't seen any iPhone 5's for $0 down. Cheapest has been $20.
And on that subject, Vz's "edge" plan is a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
There is just no end to people's lack of understanding.
Is it really that hard to understand? Do you honestly need it spelled out?
P.R.I.C.E.
The reason 30% of Apple's iPhone sales last month were a 2011 phone is because it was HALF the up front cost of the iPhone 5. There are a lot of people that simply don't care. There are a lot of people that are not going to make a buying decision based on much else other than PRICE....
50% iPhone 5
30% iPhone 4S..
That leaves the remaining 20%....which was the iPhone 4. Again, major price influenced decision here. This has been the case almost every year since Apple started offering last year's phone, and the one before that as Free.
THIS is why Apple is being smart this year, and finally building a NEW phone to introduce into the $0 w/ contract and $99 w/ contract price point. These points are HUGE< MASSIVE < UNBELIVABLE. And account for HALF, 50% of all of Apple's iPhone sales at any given time.
You're trying too hard to make price a winning factor here. If price were a major factor then the iPhone 4 would be higher in unit sales than the iPhone 4S. Your conclusion that an even cheaper iPhone would outsell the iPhone 4 isn't supported by the current data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
"But but but but but the iPhone 5 isn't selling! It's just the same thing Apple has always made! People don't want rehashes anymore! They're on to your tricks, Apple!"
Ah, remember that in the first quarter it was available? You'd think people that stupid would learn to shut up.
Stats do show the 5S is sellling less than the 4s was. In OCT 2011, the high end 4s iphone had 90% of the sales while in oct 2012, the 5s had 68% of the sales. It looks like the high end phone is selling less than before. Would be interesting to see what will happen this year.
Q1, 2012 - 37 millions iphones sale with 90% 4s = 33.3 millions 4s sold.
Q1, 2013 - 47 millions iphones sale with 68% 5s = 31.9 millions 5s sold.
Biggest quarter for the iphone 4 was 18 millions in Q3 2011. So:
iphone 4 VS iphone 4s growth : 45% growth
iphone 4s VS iphone 5 growth: - 4% decline
and people wonder why the stock went down...
NOW: Apple sells past year phones, which are cheaper to manufacture now that they're older technology at lower price points to fill out the product line:
FUTURE: (Hopefully) Apple has two iPhone products, both of which are updated each year. One of which is the continuation of the current model. The second being a new model using generally cheaper to manufacture methods, and slightly older components to hit lower price points in the pre-paid markets.
Apple's current strategy is working ok, but making a second phone line designed to address the medium of the pre-pay market will probably turbo-charge things.
And with the volumes they're doing now, it makes economics sense to carry two distinct designs and update them each year.
You're waaay over thinking it.
First of all, I don't think selling old phones is stupid. You misinterpreted that. It has been brilliantly successful for Apple. But you have to establish WHY it has been so successful for Apple before passing judgment on their next move.
IMO, the data provides a clear story: Selling old phones is successful because even though some people prefer to have the latest and greatest and don't mind paying $200 or more for it, there are just as many people who would prefer to spend less, and still get an iPhone. Its called choice.
Apple is preparing to offer the same choice, but better. By having "new" devices that they believe appeal best to this market segment.
This is what I'm saying. Somehow, this is impossible for others to comprehend. Although, certain people like to argue just for the sake of arguing.
Its not that black and white. If price were the only factor no iPhone 5 would have ever sold, would it? Same logic extends to 4 vs. 4S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
Its not that black and white. If price were the only factor no iPhone 5 would have ever sold, would it? Same logic extends to 4 vs. 4S.
Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say price being the only factor.
My point remains-- you have no data to support a cheaper iPhone being more popular in terms of units sold. Your argument is pure speculation.
Both the 4S and the 4 are competing with the secondary market. My nephew got an iPhone 4 for Christmas and when i asked my brother was it "new" - that is from Apple he laughed. He got it cheaper on eBay. With 2-3 models per year he would probably have gotten the cheapest of this years model, which would in any case have better software support. The market for the mini is now bigger than the iPad 4 by some margin, but the 3 outsold the 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Both the 4S and the 4 are competing with the secondary market. My nephew got an iPhone 4 for Christmas and when i asked my brother was it "new" - that is from Apple he laughed. He got it cheaper on eBay. With 2-3 models per year he would probably have gotten the cheapest of this years model, which would in any case have better software support. The market for the mini is now bigger than the iPad 4 by some margin, but the 3 outsold the 2.
A single data point does not make a trend. That's what surveys and sales numbers are for.