Thanks for the explanation. I wish TS would say what he means instead of just posting vague contradictions.
For the record, I wasn't trying to be disingenuous or misleading. The impression I get from articles and comments on this forum are that the rMBP was not nearly as well received as Apple expected, and that there was more to it than just a shrinking of the PC market overall. It is my understanding that the Air has managed to weather the slowdown quite respectably, whereas the rMBP has not done as well. Apple doesn't typically respond to global slowdowns with price reductions, do they? Was the price of any other product reduced?
Does anyone know how many they've sold? How do we know it's super-popular?
Anyway, I have no basis for a qualified opinion either way so I'll stop speculating. I'm sure it's a great computer.
Thanks for articulating your view!
You're very welcome!
The Retina MBP is definitely positioned in the "elite" range.. price and feature-wise. It certainly is pricey. I think that people measure if they really need that higher res display, and if they don't they opt for a perfectly good "standard" MBP. I'm guessing the rMBP doesn't sell nearly as well as the rest of their laptops due to price.
The Air is a great device all around. I've kept an eye on that line for some time, but never felt compelled to seriously consider it. The previous generation got more of my attention (the overall specs and feature set finally started to gel for me, and my uses for a laptop), and with this release they've finally got me. I'm planning to buy one (13" MBA) near the end of this month.
I wouldn't be surprised if this model is having that effect on a lot of people. This also means I'm not buying a full MBP anytime soon though. I'll replace my iMac with a newer model, as well as my iPad, but I don't need the interim device the MBP represents...
(Caveat: If I was still doing a lot of mobile production (audio+video) though, I'd still opt for the MBP. At today's prices, probably not the Retina though. I still haven't yet had need for that.)
I've had my current crop of Apple devices (iMac, iPad, iPhone - I already sold my MBP early last year) since early 2010. I'm planning to upgrade all three this year, and add a MacBook Air.
It could be that my own behavior reflects a general trend, that more people are waiting longer to upgrade (and seeing less relevance for a laptop due to the iPad). I used to cycle out every two to three years, now it's every three to four. Apple products are just made that well.
News FLASH. I just went on iCloud (non-developer) and i got iWork Beta on it.
I was using a Windows XP that's slower than a first gen PC running at 8 Hz. But that's because it isn't mine and no one really administers it to clear the cache, etc. Plus it's got all kinds of weird crap on it. It's some POS that many people use, but no one takes care of it.
I read posts like this and truly marvel. You claim to have a family who all "left Apple" while you held on loyally, "waiting for Apple to deliver what you want and need (but haven't yet)…" You put it into the context of Apple being "Expensive" - presumably relative to the rest of the market, but since feature for feature, Apple isn't any more expensive spec for spec - then perhaps what you're really saying is you wished Apple produced cheaper 'junk' machines that were more 'affordable'?
Considering that Apple pretty much exist at, and often define, the leading edge of this market (and its hardware), what is it that THEY are not delivering for you (other than "cheaper hardware")?
Is it all about "lower prices"? They've lowered prices a few times over the past year, while increasing performance and specs at the same time. The MacBook Air is a fine example of this. Look at the base 13" model that sells for $1,299. That's an amazing package (performance, storage, you name it) for that price. No-one else really comes close.
Additional features? No less than the competition, that's for sure.
What is it exactly that the rest of your family needed that Apple doesn't provide?
I find this post of yours fairly disingenuous, I'm afraid.
I would gladly purchase a headless Mac with the internals of the iMac for $1500 so that I can choose my monitor. That would be a premium over the price of an iMac considering it wouldn't have a screen. So it isn't about the dollar amount. It is about the compromises that come with the dollar amount. Features for me and my family mean having things INSIDE the computer.
My oldest daughter just bought a Macbook Pro instead of waiting for Haswell so she could get one with an internal DVD drive because for her having it internal with the amount she uses it makes the MOST sense. For her.
Same for me. For the amount I use it, and the fact that I am looking for a DESKTOP computer (something that isn't moved around) it makes the most sense to have it internally. Once the new Mac Pro is out there will not be ONE desktop Mac that even offers the option of having an optical drive internally.
It is all these compromises that get to Mac users like me. I'd gladly pay MORE money to have what I want. Yet Apple continues to exclude select groups of users.
Apple does things that give the appearance that common sense and usefulness aren't high on the list anymore.
I want Apple to design a house. The bathroom would be detached and outside like a frontier home. Apple would say, how often do you use it anyway?
I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that. Apple simply overestimated demand for their desktops and laptops. That's why they had fire sales to move a lot of inventory. But I guess since they managed (it appears) to clear the excess inventory by slashing prices and killing their margins, then that's managing it "effectively."
Agreed. Anyone can misjudge demand, even a pretty tight supply/delivery chain company like Apple.
My problem was with the hyperbolic, tabloid headlines - "Caught & gambles" - that imply Apple is flailing around with no market sense of what is needed by consumers. Dare I say it - like MS tends to do?
Whatever: in extremis - "clear your inventory by slashing prices and killing margins" - learn & move on.
Anyone on this forum know of another tech company in the consumer market that manages their demand/supply chain better than Apple does at the moment?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
Thanks for the explanation. I wish TS would say what he means instead of just posting vague contradictions.
For the record, I wasn't trying to be disingenuous or misleading. The impression I get from articles and comments on this forum are that the rMBP was not nearly as well received as Apple expected, and that there was more to it than just a shrinking of the PC market overall. It is my understanding that the Air has managed to weather the slowdown quite respectably, whereas the rMBP has not done as well. Apple doesn't typically respond to global slowdowns with price reductions, do they? Was the price of any other product reduced?
Does anyone know how many they've sold? How do we know it's super-popular?
Anyway, I have no basis for a qualified opinion either way so I'll stop speculating. I'm sure it's a great computer.
Thanks for articulating your view!
You're very welcome!
The Retina MBP is definitely positioned in the "elite" range.. price and feature-wise. It certainly is pricey. I think that people measure if they really need that higher res display, and if they don't they opt for a perfectly good "standard" MBP. I'm guessing the rMBP doesn't sell nearly as well as the rest of their laptops due to price.
The Air is a great device all around. I've kept an eye on that line for some time, but never felt compelled to seriously consider it. The previous generation got more of my attention (the overall specs and feature set finally started to gel for me, and my uses for a laptop), and with this release they've finally got me. I'm planning to buy one (13" MBA) near the end of this month.
I wouldn't be surprised if this model is having that effect on a lot of people. This also means I'm not buying a full MBP anytime soon though. I'll replace my iMac with a newer model, as well as my iPad, but I don't need the interim device the MBP represents...
(Caveat: If I was still doing a lot of mobile production (audio+video) though, I'd still opt for the MBP. At today's prices, probably not the Retina though. I still haven't yet had need for that.)
I've had my current crop of Apple devices (iMac, iPad, iPhone - I already sold my MBP early last year) since early 2010. I'm planning to upgrade all three this year, and add a MacBook Air.
It could be that my own behavior reflects a general trend, that more people are waiting longer to upgrade (and seeing less relevance for a laptop due to the iPad). I used to cycle out every two to three years, now it's every three to four. Apple products are just made that well.
News FLASH. I just went on iCloud (non-developer) and i got iWork Beta on it.
I was using a Windows XP that's slower than a first gen PC running at 8 Hz. But that's because it isn't mine and no one really administers it to clear the cache, etc. Plus it's got all kinds of weird crap on it. It's some POS that many people use, but no one takes care of it.
I have a name for Android fanboys that are a pain in the rear and all they do is troll. Hemorrhoids..
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
I read posts like this and truly marvel. You claim to have a family who all "left Apple" while you held on loyally, "waiting for Apple to deliver what you want and need (but haven't yet)…" You put it into the context of Apple being "Expensive" - presumably relative to the rest of the market, but since feature for feature, Apple isn't any more expensive spec for spec - then perhaps what you're really saying is you wished Apple produced cheaper 'junk' machines that were more 'affordable'?
Considering that Apple pretty much exist at, and often define, the leading edge of this market (and its hardware), what is it that THEY are not delivering for you (other than "cheaper hardware")?
Is it all about "lower prices"? They've lowered prices a few times over the past year, while increasing performance and specs at the same time. The MacBook Air is a fine example of this. Look at the base 13" model that sells for $1,299. That's an amazing package (performance, storage, you name it) for that price. No-one else really comes close.
Additional features? No less than the competition, that's for sure.
What is it exactly that the rest of your family needed that Apple doesn't provide?
I find this post of yours fairly disingenuous, I'm afraid.
I would gladly purchase a headless Mac with the internals of the iMac for $1500 so that I can choose my monitor. That would be a premium over the price of an iMac considering it wouldn't have a screen. So it isn't about the dollar amount. It is about the compromises that come with the dollar amount. Features for me and my family mean having things INSIDE the computer.
My oldest daughter just bought a Macbook Pro instead of waiting for Haswell so she could get one with an internal DVD drive because for her having it internal with the amount she uses it makes the MOST sense. For her.
Same for me. For the amount I use it, and the fact that I am looking for a DESKTOP computer (something that isn't moved around) it makes the most sense to have it internally. Once the new Mac Pro is out there will not be ONE desktop Mac that even offers the option of having an optical drive internally.
It is all these compromises that get to Mac users like me. I'd gladly pay MORE money to have what I want. Yet Apple continues to exclude select groups of users.
Apple does things that give the appearance that common sense and usefulness aren't high on the list anymore.
I want Apple to design a house. The bathroom would be detached and outside like a frontier home. Apple would say, how often do you use it anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker
I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that. Apple simply overestimated demand for their desktops and laptops. That's why they had fire sales to move a lot of inventory. But I guess since they managed (it appears) to clear the excess inventory by slashing prices and killing their margins, then that's managing it "effectively."Agreed. Anyone can misjudge demand, even a pretty tight supply/delivery chain company like Apple.
My problem was with the hyperbolic, tabloid headlines - "Caught & gambles" - that imply Apple is flailing around with no market sense of what is needed by consumers. Dare I say it - like MS tends to do?
Whatever: in extremis - "clear your inventory by slashing prices and killing margins" - learn & move on.
Anyone on this forum know of another tech company in the consumer market that manages their demand/supply chain better than Apple does at the moment?