A7 in 2014's iPhone. Don't see it in 2013. iOS 7 had so many changes that I doubt they'd also do a toolchain upgrade at the same time.
Some of us running iOS 7 in beta can speak of a significant increase in overall speed of the software itself.. Running super smooth and very fast as it is...
Any performance numbers need to have power efficiency factored in when talking about iOS devices. Is it 31% faster with the same battery drain? It could just be an A6X produced on TSMC's 20nm fab processes instead of Samsung's 32nm. That would be a good way to get started with a new fab partner - give them an existing established design and focus on working out the kinks in production not rolling out a totally new design. A totally new design with 64-bit, more CPU cores and improved graphics would be better rolled out on the iPad.
Taking the current A6X and producing it at 20nm would probably give Apple enough gain in power efficiency that they could increase the clocks speed to get the 31% increase in processing power without impacting battery life.
Dude! This like Toe-tally contradicts the plausible rumor that th camera will use the same silicon and have a better lens. A separate chip for motion detectin', HOW COOL IS THAT!!!
Once again Fox News is just makin' it up! (My conclusion).
Some of us running iOS 7 in beta can speak of a significant increase in overall speed of the software itself.. Running super smooth and very fast as it is...
I don't buy it. From the A4-A5 and A5-A6 we saw increase in CPU of around 2X. For the GPU the A4-A5 was almost 5X (Apple stated up to 9X but averaged out it was around 5X) and the A5-A6 was again 2X.
The A6 is already very fast so the only way I could see the A7 being only 31% faster is if it came with some other benefit. Perhaps they'll have greatly reduced power consumption (not the suggested 20% but something significant like 50%). Or maybe the CPU is only 31% faster but the GPU is again 2X as fast. Or maybe they get 31% more CPU speed while reducing the clock back down to 1GHz.
I just don't see an A7 having such a small increase in capabilities based on Apples history. They usually knock it out of the park with each new processor.
more like A7 this year hitting 2/20 times power upgrade (if it 4 cores it can go 20)
A 31% increase in processor speed isn't really that much for a completely new SoC. They could achieve a similar performance boost by reducing dye-size to a 28nm process from a 32nm one,and bump up the clock speed slightly without increasing power consumption. As its supposed to be a brand new A7 rather than an A6 I was hoping for twice the processor speed. I still suspect that it might just end up being an upgraded A6 rather than a completely new SoC design - anyway we'll see, not long to go now.
If they release two new models of the 5, certainly the 5s will be A7 and the 5c will be A6. They need that for differentiation.
This is pretty straightforward. and 31% seems reasonable.
But no on Quad Cores for the phone and no on 64bit registers. One or both of those make sense for next year, and no sense in the iPhone. Maybe Quad Core in a "one more thing" on a new iPad, but given it's compute profile, more/better GPUs make more sense. 64 bit... makes no sense until you build an OS and a development set to take advantage of it, and retiring HW that doesn't support it*, and a reference application or 3 to amaze people to want the device. That's WWDC sort of announcement.**
Even with Motion Detection.... especially with Motion detection (a lot of calculations that need to recreate 3D activity to verify 'what you did'). Motion Detection HW will tell 'what you did', but the GPUs will need to determine 'What you _Meant_' (I see it moving... at this speed at this spin starting at this release point and at travelling along this vector[all motion detection]... is it a fastball or a curve?" sort of recognition (which for humans is a bit of calculation, and a lot of 'mental memory'... sort of a FFT then a hash lookup).
In the long term, keeping the 'c' at a dual core and the flagships at quad core is a nice differentiator. One could see the 'Mini' being the 'c' of the iPad series... fewer pixels (even at retina), and a smaller volume would drive a slightly lower performance profile.
* That makes more sense about reasoning to release a 5c and a 5s... and some sense about both having an A7 chip (see below**)
**Although I like the thought of an 'off cycle' announcement. Or a hidden set of paths in the A7 that can be 'activated' as pseudo 64bit by iOS8.
NOTE: this is pure fantasy in my mind. However, this is what old CISC chips did in the old days in preparation for future work (VAX/Alpha architectures)
I expect the CPU in the new A# chip to be at least TWICE as fast and the GPU to be about FIVE TIMES as fast. This is what people have come to expect from Apple...
31% faster will not impress. iPhone has already lost lots of market share to the bigger screens androids. I want to believe apple got to throw in something significant and ahead of time like 64 bit inside the 5S.
But then what about the ios7 ? Is it secretly ready for 64 bit hardware ?
If not, demo time is June2014, 64 bit October 2014. By then Android camp will do it almost the same time.
With Elon Musk tweeting this weekend about showing a video one day this week of rocket parts being designed and developed using similar technology, Apple would have great company to showcase it's innovative prowess!
I was surprised to read about Elon's new technology a few days after Apple's patent was published. The timing was incredible since Elon had not gotten more mileage from the Hyperloop technology he recently published.
Several commentors, including myself, referenced the Iron Man movie as an example of where Apple could go with this technology. Elon apparently has gotten there already.
It would be awesome if Elon is [B]using[/B] Apple's technology on the new Mac Pro. Thanks to Apple showcasing companies at this year's WWDC using the new Mac Pro to test the machine, it is possible Elon had access to the machines and software.
I am looking forward to seeing what Apple and Elon release to the public!!
I don't buy it. From the A4-A5 and A5-A6 we saw increase in CPU of around 2X. For the GPU the A4-A5 was almost 5X (Apple stated up to 9X but averaged out it was around 5X) and the A5-A6 was again 2X.
The A6 is already very fast so the only way I could see the A7 being only 31% faster is if it came with some other benefit. Perhaps they'll have greatly reduced power consumption (not the suggested 20% but something significant like 50%). Or maybe the CPU is only 31% faster but the GPU is again 2X as fast. Or maybe they get 31% more CPU speed while reducing the clock back down to 1GHz.
I just don't see an A7 having such a small increase in capabilities based on Apples history. They usually knock it out of the park with each new processor.
I agree. 31% is too little unless there's some other major benefit. However, the people expecting another 5-9X GPU gains and 2X CPU are probably going to be disappointed, as well. You can't maintain that kind of performance gains indefinitely and the A6X is already a mature processor.
I agree. 31% is too little unless there's some other major benefit. However, the people expecting another 5-9X GPU gains and 2X CPU are probably going to be disappointed, as well. You can't maintain that kind of performance gains indefinitely and the A6X is already a mature processor.
I honestly see no reason why Apple shouldn't include a Quad Core A7 SoC inside the next iPhone/iPad.
I sure didn't. What we knew back then is Apple had already been working on die-shrunk A5's (as found in the Apple TV and "new" iPad 2). A shrunk A5 could be clocked higher and give a boost to performance without killing battery life. The A6 was a shock not because Apple named their new chip "A6" (which we all expected) but because it was a completely custom-designed processor.
Anandtech had a great write-up on the A6 showing just how big of an update it was. A lot of it was even hand-laid which is very expensive, but offers some key benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I agree. 31% is too little unless there's some other major benefit. However, the people expecting another 5-9X GPU gains and 2X CPU are probably going to be disappointed, as well. You can't maintain that kind of performance gains indefinitely and the A6X is already a mature processor.
We won't see 5-9X GPU anymore - that was simply because the A4 had a terrible GPU compared to the A5. But another 2X is not unreasonable if they switch to the 600 Series PowerVR.
A 31% increase in processor speed isn't really that much for a completely new SoC. They could achieve a similar performance boost by reducing dye-size to a 28nm process from a 32nm one,and bump up the clock speed slightly without increasing power consumption. As its supposed to be a brand new A7 rather than an A6 I was hoping for twice the processor speed. I still suspect that it might just end up being an upgraded A6 rather than a completely new SoC design - anyway we'll see, not long to go now.
There are lots of reasons Apple might not include a quad core A7. Cost. Size. Energy Usage. Availability.
They might include one, but you have absolutely no way of knowing that, nor does your lack of imagination lend any credibility to your pontifications.
What does imagination have to do with anything? What makes you think I have none? Who here knows of what Apple will release next? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever...
Comments
Some of us running iOS 7 in beta can speak of a significant increase in overall speed of the software itself.. Running super smooth and very fast as it is...
Taking the current A6X and producing it at 20nm would probably give Apple enough gain in power efficiency that they could increase the clocks speed to get the 31% increase in processing power without impacting battery life.
Once again Fox News is just makin' it up! (My conclusion).
It is sure is and even on a 4s!
more like A7 this year hitting 2/20 times power upgrade (if it 4 cores it can go 20)
The people who did not expect we're the ones with the IPad did not get it, so why iPhone, then they weren't expecting the IPad to be upgrading twice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo
If they release two new models of the 5, certainly the 5s will be A7 and the 5c will be A6. They need that for differentiation.
This is pretty straightforward. and 31% seems reasonable.
But no on Quad Cores for the phone and no on 64bit registers. One or both of those make sense for next year, and no sense in the iPhone. Maybe Quad Core in a "one more thing" on a new iPad, but given it's compute profile, more/better GPUs make more sense. 64 bit... makes no sense until you build an OS and a development set to take advantage of it, and retiring HW that doesn't support it*, and a reference application or 3 to amaze people to want the device. That's WWDC sort of announcement.**
Even with Motion Detection.... especially with Motion detection (a lot of calculations that need to recreate 3D activity to verify 'what you did'). Motion Detection HW will tell 'what you did', but the GPUs will need to determine 'What you _Meant_' (I see it moving... at this speed at this spin starting at this release point and at travelling along this vector[all motion detection]... is it a fastball or a curve?" sort of recognition (which for humans is a bit of calculation, and a lot of 'mental memory'... sort of a FFT then a hash lookup).
In the long term, keeping the 'c' at a dual core and the flagships at quad core is a nice differentiator. One could see the 'Mini' being the 'c' of the iPad series... fewer pixels (even at retina), and a smaller volume would drive a slightly lower performance profile.
* That makes more sense about reasoning to release a 5c and a 5s... and some sense about both having an A7 chip (see below**)
**Although I like the thought of an 'off cycle' announcement. Or a hidden set of paths in the A7 that can be 'activated' as pseudo 64bit by iOS8.
NOTE: this is pure fantasy in my mind. However, this is what old CISC chips did in the old days in preparation for future work (VAX/Alpha architectures)
But then what about the ios7 ? Is it secretly ready for 64 bit hardware ?
If not, demo time is June2014, 64 bit October 2014. By then Android camp will do it almost the same time.
[URL]http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/20/apple-patents-3d-gesture-ui-for-ios-based-on-proximity-sensor-input[/URL].
With Elon Musk tweeting this weekend about showing a video one day this week of rocket parts being designed and developed using similar technology, Apple would have great company to showcase it's innovative prowess!
I was surprised to read about Elon's new technology a few days after Apple's patent was published. The timing was incredible since Elon had not gotten more mileage from the Hyperloop technology he recently published.
Several commentors, including myself, referenced the Iron Man movie as an example of where Apple could go with this technology. Elon apparently has gotten there already.
It would be awesome if Elon is [B]using[/B] Apple's technology on the new Mac Pro. Thanks to Apple showcasing companies at this year's WWDC using the new Mac Pro to test the machine, it is possible Elon had access to the machines and software.
I am looking forward to seeing what Apple and Elon release to the public!!
I agree. 31% is too little unless there's some other major benefit. However, the people expecting another 5-9X GPU gains and 2X CPU are probably going to be disappointed, as well. You can't maintain that kind of performance gains indefinitely and the A6X is already a mature processor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I agree. 31% is too little unless there's some other major benefit. However, the people expecting another 5-9X GPU gains and 2X CPU are probably going to be disappointed, as well. You can't maintain that kind of performance gains indefinitely and the A6X is already a mature processor.
I honestly see no reason why Apple shouldn't include a Quad Core A7 SoC inside the next iPhone/iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
If the S stands for speed they have to have faster chips.
Impart more wisdom on us, Nostradamus...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Who the heck didn't expect it?
I sure didn't. What we knew back then is Apple had already been working on die-shrunk A5's (as found in the Apple TV and "new" iPad 2). A shrunk A5 could be clocked higher and give a boost to performance without killing battery life. The A6 was a shock not because Apple named their new chip "A6" (which we all expected) but because it was a completely custom-designed processor.
Anandtech had a great write-up on the A6 showing just how big of an update it was. A lot of it was even hand-laid which is very expensive, but offers some key benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I agree. 31% is too little unless there's some other major benefit. However, the people expecting another 5-9X GPU gains and 2X CPU are probably going to be disappointed, as well. You can't maintain that kind of performance gains indefinitely and the A6X is already a mature processor.
We won't see 5-9X GPU anymore - that was simply because the A4 had a terrible GPU compared to the A5. But another 2X is not unreasonable if they switch to the 600 Series PowerVR.
I wonder what the competition is doing, its been a long time since we heard anything about Nvidia and they're overly hype Tegra processor.
Who cares how limited your imagination is?
There are lots of reasons Apple might not include a quad core A7. Cost. Size. Energy Usage. Availability.
They might include one, but you have absolutely no way of knowing that, nor does your lack of imagination lend any credibility to your pontifications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Who cares how limited your imagination is?
There are lots of reasons Apple might not include a quad core A7. Cost. Size. Energy Usage. Availability.
They might include one, but you have absolutely no way of knowing that, nor does your lack of imagination lend any credibility to your pontifications.
What does imagination have to do with anything? What makes you think I have none? Who here knows of what Apple will release next? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever...