Being completly out of the stock helps getting over it indeed. They can go and paint themselves into a niche market all they want.
Thus explaining your rabid (and highly visible) hatred, alternating with fanboyism that rivaled Dilger. Your posts were mentally marked as a big "AVOID" for some time for me.
Are you better now? Are you capable of posting rationally?
The best thing about the past several days has been the haircut the stock is getting is good for longs to pick up more at a discount. The stock market is a game of nerves and obviously nobody has any.
I am now convinced that Apple's refusal to make a bigger screen iPhone was a mistake. It is following almost the same strategy as BlackBerry did a few years ago, of ignoring market trends. Even if they do damage control within the next few months, the momentum they have now lost to compete with the likes of Samsung, Sony and LG will affect Apple in the long run. The short sellers are going to have a field day for the next couple of months.
It's amazing how wrong Wall Street was with the 5C. They were expecting a plastic phone with 4 or 4S internals and sold for cheap. Lets not forget there were some analysts predicting the 5C might not have LTE or Siri or the camera would be crappier. Maybe that's what Apple should have done. But if Apple had kept the 5 and knocked $100 off it would people be complaining that the 5 is too expensive? Are the complaints based more on what people's idea of the product was vs what the product actually is? Or do people think because the case is plastic Apple should have shaved off more than $100 of the iPhone 5 price?
I am now convinced that Apple's refusal to make a bigger screen iPhone was a mistake. It is following almost the same strategy as BlackBerry did a few years ago, of ignoring market trends. Even if they do damage control within the next few months, the momentum they have now lost to compete with the likes of Samsung, Sony and LG will affect Apple in the long run. The short sellers are going to have a field day for the next couple of months.
It doesn't look to be "embargoed" at all if Ars has one for review and openly publishes what it sees. Here's another hands-on review, meaning they also have one to evaluate and there was (almost certainly) no restriction on commenting about it now. http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/iphone-5s-1179315/review
Perhaps you're waiting on an Anandtech type highly-detailed review? Those take a while to do properly.
No, all these are just hands on observations after the event. Not someone getting several days with the phone to do a proper review. Maybe those are coming out next week.
imo $450 for a 8g 3.5" phone is insulting. The 4.7" Nexus 4 at $200 beats the 4s on almost all metric. That being said, Apple could still do good on the tablet side, the stock could be a buy around $400
Then don't get it. Apple is not stupid. If there was no market for this, they wouldn't keep the 4S around.
To garner market share. Apple has been downgraded by 3 banks today despite the china mobile deal. The stock market wants apple to surrender margin for share, it is a platform war after all. Android is fast becoming the developer first option here in Europe. America may be an iOS bubble. The world isn't. And why wouldn't apple compete?
And yet Wall Street dings the stock when profits and margins are lower than prior quarter/year. Give me the name of one analysts that says they want Apple to sacrifice margins and profits.
It follows the pattern Apple has had for years - Good, better, best. They simply used the 5C instead of the 5 for 'better'.
Apple is not going to sell a cheap phone. Get over it.
In what capacity do you consider the 5C 'better' than the 5? For Apple's bottom line yes, but I consider it a different option not a better one for consumers.
It doesn't look to be "embargoed" at all if Ars has one for review and openly publishes what it sees. Here's another hands-on review, meaning they also have one to evaluate and there was (almost certainly) no restriction on commenting about it now.
Perhaps you're waiting on an Anandtech type highly-detailed review? Those take a while to do properly.
No, all these are just hands on observations after the event. Not someone getting several days with the phone to do a proper review. Maybe those are coming out next week.
Embargoes only apply when a product hasn't been revealed to the public yet. There is no reason for an embargo here.
I guess the message to take out of this is there is only so much money you can squeeze out of the smartphone market and Apple is topped out. If they cant come up with a profitable lower end phone that wont cannibalize high end sales then this pricing makes sense, but it sends a clear message Apple stock only has one way to go, down.
Under Cook's tenure the only thing they've done is make a small iPad. Is Apple ever going to release a new product under Cook? Apple is floundering (once again, in comparison to the last 6 years) and unless they can make money off the operating system it's hard to see the trend reversing itself.
No, Apple' never going to release a new product again. In fact Tim Cook's plan all along has been to run Apple into the ground.
Then don't get it. Apple is not stupid. If there was no market for this, they wouldn't keep the 4S around.
They are keeping it to have a free phone on contract. Nobody is going to buy that thing in markets where you have to pay full price up front. The 4s internals with the 5c exterior at $350-$400 would have done a lot better. This phone would have lower margins, but would have fill the needs of a lot of people that wants the apple ecosystem.
What I'm waiting for pundit-wise is for the shoe to drop on market saturation, market share and "mid-range" products.
Before the announcement there were no shortage of articles, many from very learned sources that talked about how the high-end of the smartphone market was either reaching saturation or already saturated. They were saying that Apple was making a smart play by going for a more mid-range, or possibly even lower range product so as to keep momentum and sales going.
There were also many articles from these same learned sources that opined that even though Apple traditionally didn't care about market share, that this time they should, and they would because to do otherwise would leave them stuck at the top of a mountain in a predominantly Android dominated landscape. That people would develop for Android first, and that Android would become the standard no matter what Apple's financial success, unless they tried to increase their market share. It was these same mid-range products that were supposed to do this.
Now ... Apple *hasn't* actually made any new mid-range product, and it certainly hasn't made any lower end one. It's still positioned exactly where it was at the top end of this supposedly saturated smartphone market, that just last week we were told was experiencing "slowing sales".
Sure they are going to get a boost out of opening up China and Japan, and another boost from all the upper-middle-class parents across the world that are going to add a $99 dollar coloured iPhone to their family plan for little Sally and Johnny, but were these agreed upon "facts" just wrong? If they weren't, then the drop in Apple's stock is well deserved. It seems to me that the only sales boost here is from marketing and sales positioning, not from a change in product strategy or product design.
Personally, I think they still need an affordable product for the masses eventually if they really do desire their platform to become the standard. IMO today's Apple is too wrapped up in business with it's head firmly up it's arse, and has lost all sense of how it could really be changing the world. They honestly seem to care more about making money than putting wonderful product in as many peoples hands as they can, despite their slick marketing materials saying the exact opposite.
And yet Wall Street dings the stock when profits and margins are lower than prior quarter/year. Give me the name of one analysts that says they want Apple to sacrifice margins and profits.
Apple did a good move on margins. The 5C at $550 as better margins than selling the 5 at $550. The problem is its still a high end phone on the price side. Despite adding new carriers, I dont think Apple will be able to sell more phones than last year in the long run. It should do better than last year in the first weeks, but volume will quickly died down after just a few months. Apple will need to do a phone launch in early 2014. Maybe this is what they have planned to offer a bigger screen.
Hmmm...so did iPhone 5 reviews come out the day after it was announced? I can't remember.
It was 6 days later before the first reviews from journalists who got iPhone5 review unit's were allowed to post.
EDIT: With the 5C available for pre-order beginning this Friday I wouldn't be surprised to see the first "official" reviews going up then but certainly no later than the 20th when they're scheduled to begin shipping to the public.
In what capacity do you consider the 5C 'better' than the 5? For Apple's bottom line yes, but I consider it a different option not a better one for consumers.
Apple's product line is 4S, 5C and 5S - good, better, best. But I'm basing that off the technology in the phone, not whether the case is plastic or aluminum. No plastic is not my cup of tea, and I do think aluminum gives a more premium look/feel, but obviously not everyone feels that way. And the hands on initial impressions I've seen indicate the 5C doesn't feel cheap in any way. I'm not aware of people calling Nokia Lumia's cheap because they're casing is plastic. Sure people do with Samsung, Acer, etc. but that's because their products do feel cheap.
Perfect? Maybe 5% of the people on China Mobile will buy a phone in that price range. Of that 5% how many will pick an iPhone? 1 or 2 percent?
The reason the stock is tanking is the 5c isn't going to gain Apple any substantial penetration increase (ie revenue increase) and with nothing else announced no reason to expect the EPS to increase.
The reality is EPS could be $30 this time next year. That's a big number, but not big enough to sustain the sock price. Next quarter should look good with both phones being available everywhere for part of September, and then there is the holiday quarter, but hard to see either beating the numbers year over year.
Utter nonsense. You have no clue what you are talking about. There is tremendous value built into these phones and they will fly off the shelves.
Comments
Thus explaining your rabid (and highly visible) hatred, alternating with fanboyism that rivaled Dilger. Your posts were mentally marked as a big "AVOID" for some time for me.
Are you better now? Are you capable of posting rationally?
The best thing about the past several days has been the haircut the stock is getting is good for longs to pick up more at a discount. The stock market is a game of nerves and obviously nobody has any.
I am now convinced that Apple's refusal to make a bigger screen iPhone was a mistake. It is following almost the same strategy as BlackBerry did a few years ago, of ignoring market trends. Even if they do damage control within the next few months, the momentum they have now lost to compete with the likes of Samsung, Sony and LG will affect Apple in the long run. The short sellers are going to have a field day for the next couple of months.
You're new to Apple, aren't you?
Yeah. Get over it customers who want a cheaper phone for themselves or presents,
Should Apple try to meet the wants of every customer?
investors who wanted to see market share increase,
Surely you are not suggesting that Apple let investors dictate product development strategy?
existing customers who would like to see Apple maintain market share so the platform is viable for developers
Please show the data indicating that the platform is no longer viable for developers.
Android users who would like to switch, pre-paid customers who want an iPhone
What's stopping Android users from switching? They can't afford the iPhone? So what? For those who want to pre-pay, there is NOTHING stopping them.
investors who would like to invest in a growth company.
Seriously? Anyone who expected an iPhone launch to turn Apple into a growth company knows nothing about investing, and should NOT invest.
Just because the iPhone has a chip that supports China Mobile's network, doesn't mean China Mobile will sell or support it.
I agree
Isn't the 4S $450 now?
imo $450 for a 8g 3.5" phone is insulting. The 4.7" Nexus 4 at $200 beats the 4s on almost all metric. That being said, Apple could still do good on the tablet side, the stock could be a buy around $400
Then don't get it. Apple is not stupid. If there was no market for this, they wouldn't keep the 4S around.
In what capacity do you consider the 5C 'better' than the 5? For Apple's bottom line yes, but I consider it a different option not a better one for consumers.
It doesn't look to be "embargoed" at all if Ars has one for review and openly publishes what it sees. Here's another hands-on review, meaning they also have one to evaluate and there was (almost certainly) no restriction on commenting about it now.
http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/iphone-5s-1179315/review
Perhaps you're waiting on an Anandtech type highly-detailed review? Those take a while to do properly.
No, all these are just hands on observations after the event. Not someone getting several days with the phone to do a proper review. Maybe those are coming out next week.
Embargoes only apply when a product hasn't been revealed to the public yet. There is no reason for an embargo here.
Then don't get it. Apple is not stupid. If there was no market for this, they wouldn't keep the 4S around.
They are keeping it to have a free phone on contract. Nobody is going to buy that thing in markets where you have to pay full price up front. The 4s internals with the 5c exterior at $350-$400 would have done a lot better. This phone would have lower margins, but would have fill the needs of a lot of people that wants the apple ecosystem.
Here's another intersting observation from the Verge forums: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4718150/between-the-lines-what-apple-told-us-today
Indeed. They cut through a lot of the crap.
What I'm waiting for pundit-wise is for the shoe to drop on market saturation, market share and "mid-range" products.
Before the announcement there were no shortage of articles, many from very learned sources that talked about how the high-end of the smartphone market was either reaching saturation or already saturated. They were saying that Apple was making a smart play by going for a more mid-range, or possibly even lower range product so as to keep momentum and sales going.
There were also many articles from these same learned sources that opined that even though Apple traditionally didn't care about market share, that this time they should, and they would because to do otherwise would leave them stuck at the top of a mountain in a predominantly Android dominated landscape. That people would develop for Android first, and that Android would become the standard no matter what Apple's financial success, unless they tried to increase their market share. It was these same mid-range products that were supposed to do this.
Now ... Apple *hasn't* actually made any new mid-range product, and it certainly hasn't made any lower end one. It's still positioned exactly where it was at the top end of this supposedly saturated smartphone market, that just last week we were told was experiencing "slowing sales".
Sure they are going to get a boost out of opening up China and Japan, and another boost from all the upper-middle-class parents across the world that are going to add a $99 dollar coloured iPhone to their family plan for little Sally and Johnny, but were these agreed upon "facts" just wrong? If they weren't, then the drop in Apple's stock is well deserved. It seems to me that the only sales boost here is from marketing and sales positioning, not from a change in product strategy or product design.
Personally, I think they still need an affordable product for the masses eventually if they really do desire their platform to become the standard. IMO today's Apple is too wrapped up in business with it's head firmly up it's arse, and has lost all sense of how it could really be changing the world. They honestly seem to care more about making money than putting wonderful product in as many peoples hands as they can, despite their slick marketing materials saying the exact opposite.
And yet Wall Street dings the stock when profits and margins are lower than prior quarter/year. Give me the name of one analysts that says they want Apple to sacrifice margins and profits.
Apple did a good move on margins. The 5C at $550 as better margins than selling the 5 at $550. The problem is its still a high end phone on the price side. Despite adding new carriers, I dont think Apple will be able to sell more phones than last year in the long run. It should do better than last year in the first weeks, but volume will quickly died down after just a few months. Apple will need to do a phone launch in early 2014. Maybe this is what they have planned to offer a bigger screen.
It was 6 days later before the first reviews from journalists who got iPhone5 review unit's were allowed to post.
EDIT: With the 5C available for pre-order beginning this Friday I wouldn't be surprised to see the first "official" reviews going up then but certainly no later than the 20th when they're scheduled to begin shipping to the public.
The only hope analysts have for a cheap phone are an ipod with cellular and Facetime voice. It might happen, but I'm not holding my breath.