Agreed! And change to simply satisfy idiot pundits and give them warm fuzzies would be even worse. Why do people keep trying to poke holes in the business model of the world's most profitable company?! It's almost as if the analysts think Apple is listening to them...
Hmmm... Apple just made a change to its business model. Go figure.
Hmmm... Apple just made a change to its business model. Go figure.
They made a change to their mid-tier phone model, not their business model. They replaced the 5 with the 5c for a multitude of reasons that don't need to be discussed again. But the price points haven't changed at all, which I believe was Tallest's point.
If Apple were to decide they needed to make an adjustment to the three-tiered price system then they could certainly do that since, as you've pointed out, change is ok. But they would do it because it was a business imperative, not because the WSJ said they would.
They made a change to their mid-tier phone model, not their business model. They replaced the 5 with the 5c for a multitude of reasons that don't need to be discussed again. But the price points haven't changed at all, which I believe was Tallest's point.
If Apple were to decide they needed to make an adjustment to the three-tiered price system then they could certainly do that since, as you've pointed out, change is ok. But they would do it because it was a business imperative, not because the WSJ said they would.
You don't know the reason why Apple changed from the 5 to the 5C. I never heard Tim Cook or any other Apple executive tell us the exact reason.
Pricing structure alone is not the business model but making a different "new" phone to replace the 5 is absolutely a change to that business model. Apple had a given structure to the way they did business. They have gone to a new model of phone which makes it an unknown in the business model. Apple cannot look at past years and say, "if this then that". Even Apple doesn't know what will happen with the 5C. Apple's business model was based upon last year's phone in the mid-tier area and that changed.
[here's an example of how the business model changed: Some people were depending on the 5 going to the mid-tier level and were going to purchase it. Apple deletes the 5 and introduces the 5C. Now some of the people who were going to buy the 5 are in a quandary because they don't like the 5C. Some of those people buy the 5S instead. Now Apple has people who normally would have bought the 5 buying the 5S. Apple's 5S projections are thrown out the window. / and, yes, you could change that around all you want but the underlying theme is that the business model changed and any projections from previous years get thrown out the window.]
You don't know the reason why Apple changed from the 5 to the 5C. I never heard Tim Cook or any other Apple executive tell us the exact reason.
Pricing structure alone is not the business model but making a different "new" phone to replace the 5 is absolutely a change to that business model. Apple had a given structure to the way they did business. They have gone to a new model of phone which makes it an unknown in the business model. Apple cannot look at past years and say, "if this then that". Even Apple doesn't know what will happen with the 5C. Apple's business model was based upon last year's phone in the mid-tier area and that changed.
Alright I see your point to an extent. Redesigning their mid-tier offering represented a departure, yes. It's also possibly I'm misusing the term "business model."
But I believe shaking things up with regard to their product lineup is not as significant as deciding to erode the monetary value of customers owning an iPhone by lowering the middle price point. That would, in my opinion, be a much more significant change than the 5/5c redesign and slightly devalue the brand.
Some posters here are even refusing to consider the 5c a new phone (just a 5 in sheep's clothing). I could postulate that the choice came from a margin standpoint and a desire to diversify the iPhone image, add carriers and appeal to different users. But as you said we don't know what all the reasons were...and I still think lowering the price on the middle tier would constitute a more substantial change to the model than what they've done, which is to continue their tradition of offering three high-quality devices at subsidized prices of $0, $99, and $199.
Perhaps if this launch is a disaster TC will decide to make more changes, but for now it would seem Apple has less reason to panic than its ill-informed investors and analysts like to suggest.
Some posters here are even refusing to consider the 5c a new phone (just a 5 in sheep's clothing). I could postulate that the choice came from a margin standpoint and a desire to diversify the iPhone image, add carriers and appeal to different users. But as you said we don't know what all the reasons were...and I still think lowering the price on the middle tier would constitute a more substantial change to the model than what they've done, which is to continue their tradition of offering three high-quality devices at subsidized prices of $0, $99, and $199.
Maybe next year Apple will introduce a 4.3" phone as its top model, shoving the 5S to the middle and then the 5C to the bottom (possibly where it should be now).
Some of us believe that going from the metal 5 to the plastic 5C devalues the brand.
Yeah I've noticed that.
But surely the brand would only truly be devalued by a move to plastic if that's all they were offering, right? As it is, they are now offering both, thereby appealing to a broader range of customers, like apparently everyone's daughter here on AI and all the *happy cool people* in that lengthy "For the colorful" ad. This would seem to increase the value where it counts the most...market share. So we can agree to disagree on this - you feel the move to plastic devalues the brand and I feel that lowering the price to $0 would instead. Luckily we can vote with our wallets for the direction we'd like Apple to pursue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Maybe next year Apple will introduce a 4.3" phone as its top model, shoving the 5S to the middle and then the 5C to the bottom (possibly where it should be now).
I think that would make a great line-up.
Yes it would. This place is feeling more and more like a fantasy football site.
Maybe next year Apple will introduce a 4.3" phone as its top model, shoving the 5S to the middle and then the 5C to the bottom (possibly where it should be now).
I think that would make a great line-up.
If Apple does release a larger iPhone, I hope it would be a complement to a new 4" iPhone.
Saying that moving the price down devalues the brand is like saying that people didn't like the 4 last year... but it was highly valued and Apple moved a ton of them.
Maybe the 5 should be in the mid-tier and the 5C at the bottom. (the manufacturer probably told Apple it would be impossible to make enough shells for both the 5S and the 5 together)
Like you say... let's see what sells. (oh... by the way... don't mention that the 5C's largest consumer group is young females. There's a ton of crap coming your way if you say that. )
Saying that moving the price down devalues the brand is like saying that people didn't like the 4 last year... but it was highly valued and Apple moved a ton of them.
Maybe the 5 should be in the mid-tier and the 5C at the bottom. (the manufacturer probably told Apple it would be impossible to make enough shells for both the 5S and the 5 together)
Like you say... let's see what sells. (oh... by the way... don't mention that the 5C's largest consumer group is young females. There's a ton of crap coming your way if you say that. )
I'm not sure I understand your point. Precisely which tier each product inhabits is not what concerns me...I feel it's the three price points that have to stay static for people to feel the iPhone is holding its place of esteem in the industry. So if the iPhone 4 goes down in price that is ok so long as the 4S assumes its previous place at the top (which it did). Apple historically has priced the top tier device for no less than $199 on a contract in the US, the mid-tier device for no less than $99, and the bottom for free. Of course each model will lose value year over year...but the overall brand "iPhone" does not. Prices have remained static. Maybe they will come down along with margin one day...
PS - I'm not worried about the demographic comment since I myself plan on buying the 5c, not the 5s. It was just an amused commentary on how many people have mentioned their daughters wanting one. I must not be a real man.
In order to break through in China Apple would have had to priced this mid tier. Remember that in China the product is going to cost more and that there is no option to put the cost of the device into the contract. They have to pay for it up front. And, people tend to have less money in China than the US.
Will it sell in China? Yes. Will it sell well? Yes. Will it have a breakthrough? No. It will be a niche product.
You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is 1.35 billion not ~300 million like the US. That's a full billion people more than the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power.
Don't get me started on India!
Do you read? I mean, other than the Internet and Entertainment Weekly? And then do you believe everything you read or do you think critically about it? Don't answer. I know the truth because I know your type.
You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is 1.35 billion not ~300 million like the US. That's a full billion people more than the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power.
Don't get me started on India!
Do you read? I mean, other than the Internet and Entertainment Weekly? And then do you believe everything you read or do you think critically about it? Don't answer. I know the truth because I know your type.
Okay, lets look at the unedited version of your comment: "You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is in the billions not hundreds of millions like the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power."
So you tell someone they dont know anything about China and then claim it has "billions" of people, many are wealthy, and only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power. All ironically wrong. To your credit you realized it and edited your comment, but still got the population of the US wrong.
You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is 1.35 billion not ~300 million like the US. That's a full billion people more than the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power.
Don't get me started on India!
Do you read? I mean, other than the Internet and Entertainment Weekly? And then do you believe everything you read or do you think critically about it? Don't answer. I know the truth because I know your type.
Way to keep it classy with the personal attack. I don't care if you attack my reasoning and back it up but don't be a jerk.
With that said, you're right on what you said about China.
Comments
Agreed! And change to simply satisfy idiot pundits and give them warm fuzzies would be even worse. Why do people keep trying to poke holes in the business model of the world's most profitable company?! It's almost as if the analysts think Apple is listening to them...
Hmmm... Apple just made a change to its business model. Go figure.
They made a change to their mid-tier phone model, not their business model. They replaced the 5 with the 5c for a multitude of reasons that don't need to be discussed again. But the price points haven't changed at all, which I believe was Tallest's point.
If Apple were to decide they needed to make an adjustment to the three-tiered price system then they could certainly do that since, as you've pointed out, change is ok. But they would do it because it was a business imperative, not because the WSJ said they would.
They made a change to their mid-tier phone model, not their business model. They replaced the 5 with the 5c for a multitude of reasons that don't need to be discussed again. But the price points haven't changed at all, which I believe was Tallest's point.
If Apple were to decide they needed to make an adjustment to the three-tiered price system then they could certainly do that since, as you've pointed out, change is ok. But they would do it because it was a business imperative, not because the WSJ said they would.
You don't know the reason why Apple changed from the 5 to the 5C. I never heard Tim Cook or any other Apple executive tell us the exact reason.
[here's an example of how the business model changed: Some people were depending on the 5 going to the mid-tier level and were going to purchase it. Apple deletes the 5 and introduces the 5C. Now some of the people who were going to buy the 5 are in a quandary because they don't like the 5C. Some of those people buy the 5S instead. Now Apple has people who normally would have bought the 5 buying the 5S. Apple's 5S projections are thrown out the window. / and, yes, you could change that around all you want but the underlying theme is that the business model changed and any projections from previous years get thrown out the window.]
So nothing should ever change at Apple?
You could not possibly have come to that conclusion from what I posted.
I explicitly stated he didn’t change anything.
Originally Posted by island hermit
So nothing should ever change at Apple?
Quote:
You could not possibly have come to that conclusion from what I posted.
I explicitly stated he didn’t change anything.
You're not making sense.
Alright I see your point to an extent. Redesigning their mid-tier offering represented a departure, yes. It's also possibly I'm misusing the term "business model."
But I believe shaking things up with regard to their product lineup is not as significant as deciding to erode the monetary value of customers owning an iPhone by lowering the middle price point. That would, in my opinion, be a much more significant change than the 5/5c redesign and slightly devalue the brand.
Some posters here are even refusing to consider the 5c a new phone (just a 5 in sheep's clothing). I could postulate that the choice came from a margin standpoint and a desire to diversify the iPhone image, add carriers and appeal to different users. But as you said we don't know what all the reasons were...and I still think lowering the price on the middle tier would constitute a more substantial change to the model than what they've done, which is to continue their tradition of offering three high-quality devices at subsidized prices of $0, $99, and $199.
Perhaps if this launch is a disaster TC will decide to make more changes, but for now it would seem Apple has less reason to panic than its ill-informed investors and analysts like to suggest.
Some posters here are even refusing to consider the 5c a new phone (just a 5 in sheep's clothing). I could postulate that the choice came from a margin standpoint and a desire to diversify the iPhone image, add carriers and appeal to different users. But as you said we don't know what all the reasons were...and I still think lowering the price on the middle tier would constitute a more substantial change to the model than what they've done, which is to continue their tradition of offering three high-quality devices at subsidized prices of $0, $99, and $199.
Maybe next year Apple will introduce a 4.3" phone as its top model, shoving the 5S to the middle and then the 5C to the bottom (possibly where it should be now).
I think that would make a great line-up.
Yeah I've noticed that.
But surely the brand would only truly be devalued by a move to plastic if that's all they were offering, right? As it is, they are now offering both, thereby appealing to a broader range of customers, like apparently everyone's daughter here on AI and all the *happy cool people* in that lengthy "For the colorful" ad. This would seem to increase the value where it counts the most...market share. So we can agree to disagree on this - you feel the move to plastic devalues the brand and I feel that lowering the price to $0 would instead. Luckily we can vote with our wallets for the direction we'd like Apple to pursue.
Maybe next year Apple will introduce a 4.3" phone as its top model, shoving the 5S to the middle and then the 5C to the bottom (possibly where it should be now).
I think that would make a great line-up.
Yes it would. This place is feeling more and more like a fantasy football site.
If Apple does release a larger iPhone, I hope it would be a complement to a new 4" iPhone.
Saying that moving the price down devalues the brand is like saying that people didn't like the 4 last year... but it was highly valued and Apple moved a ton of them.
Maybe the 5 should be in the mid-tier and the 5C at the bottom. (the manufacturer probably told Apple it would be impossible to make enough shells for both the 5S and the 5 together)
Like you say... let's see what sells. (oh... by the way... don't mention that the 5C's largest consumer group is young females. There's a ton of crap coming your way if you say that.
)
Saying that moving the price down devalues the brand is like saying that people didn't like the 4 last year... but it was highly valued and Apple moved a ton of them.
Maybe the 5 should be in the mid-tier and the 5C at the bottom. (the manufacturer probably told Apple it would be impossible to make enough shells for both the 5S and the 5 together)
Like you say... let's see what sells. (oh... by the way... don't mention that the 5C's largest consumer group is young females. There's a ton of crap coming your way if you say that.
)
I'm not sure I understand your point. Precisely which tier each product inhabits is not what concerns me...I feel it's the three price points that have to stay static for people to feel the iPhone is holding its place of esteem in the industry. So if the iPhone 4 goes down in price that is ok so long as the 4S assumes its previous place at the top (which it did). Apple historically has priced the top tier device for no less than $199 on a contract in the US, the mid-tier device for no less than $99, and the bottom for free. Of course each model will lose value year over year...but the overall brand "iPhone" does not. Prices have remained static. Maybe they will come down along with margin one day...
PS - I'm not worried about the demographic comment since I myself plan on buying the 5c, not the 5s. It was just an amused commentary on how many people have mentioned their daughters wanting one. I must not be a real man.
You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is 1.35 billion not ~300 million like the US. That's a full billion people more than the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power.
Don't get me started on India!
Do you read? I mean, other than the Internet and Entertainment Weekly? And then do you believe everything you read or do you think critically about it? Don't answer. I know the truth because I know your type.
C
You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is 1.35 billion not ~300 million like the US. That's a full billion people more than the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power.
Don't get me started on India!
Do you read? I mean, other than the Internet and Entertainment Weekly? And then do you believe everything you read or do you think critically about it? Don't answer. I know the truth because I know your type.
Okay, lets look at the unedited version of your comment: "You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is in the billions not hundreds of millions like the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power."
So you tell someone they dont know anything about China and then claim it has "billions" of people, many are wealthy, and only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power. All ironically wrong. To your credit you realized it and edited your comment, but still got the population of the US wrong.
C
You don't know much about China. China is full of wealthy people and plenty of people that are willing to pay for the iPhone 5c and 5s. China's population is 1.35 billion not ~300 million like the US. That's a full billion people more than the US. Only a small percentage needs to have enough money to match the US buying power.
Don't get me started on India!
Do you read? I mean, other than the Internet and Entertainment Weekly? And then do you believe everything you read or do you think critically about it? Don't answer. I know the truth because I know your type.
Way to keep it classy with the personal attack. I don't care if you attack my reasoning and back it up but don't be a jerk.
I meant you were mostly right but not completely.