Sorry, best and easiest way is the pattern unlock that android uses. Apple should have put more money towards a better user experience, bigger and better screen, and better hardware overall. The fingerprint lock is useless in winter. What a hassle to keep taking off gloves to unlock my phone. I like what Nokia and Samsung did with the touchscreens that work with gloves. Get on it Apple. Stop these stupid gimmicks.
There's so many falsities in your moronic, mindless troll post, that one does not know where to start.
"Best and easiest"? Really? Easier than leaving my finger on the home button for a fraction of a second after clicking it? How the **** does that NOT improve user experience? Do you even know what that word means? Touch ID will be used hundreds of times a day by hundreds of millions of people. That does not qualify as a "gimmick".
Better quality screen? Scientific tests have shown that the iPhone 5/5s screen is literally the best in the industry, by a dozen or so metrics. Larger? Thats simply your personal preference.
The only gimmick is your post, which is asinine on so many levels. I have a Nexus 4. No, the pattern unlock is not the be-all-and-end-all of security. After getting used to touch ID, it seems like an obsolete, stone-age hassle.
That seems to be the interesting aspect. Seems the Apple implementation is not significantly more resistant to hacking than any of the previous implementations. Still useful as a convenience, but hardly an innovative breakthrough.
On really? Seems to me there's a lot of rush to judgement based on one YouTube video.
Believe what you want. You might want to remember that precisely this procedure was published in 2004 by the CCC and used effectively to demonstrate the absurd claim of the then German Interior Minister (Wolfgang Schäuble) that fingerprints were a secure means of idenification and authentication. They made Schäuble look like a complete idiot. For a while you could even buy Coffee Mugs with his "authentic fingerprint". So it's really trivial to fake fingerprints by this method which doesn't require any technology that's not available in millions of households round the world.
Let me first start out by bringing out the fact that this sensor DOES scan the sub epidermal layers of your skin(which means it scans multiple layers of your skin to ensure it's yours).
Keep that fact in mind..
Now, when watching the video, you can see the person obviously successfully registering his finger print(his index finger), and it works quite well and very fast.
Then look at the finger print he copied. Notice how he used the same print, from the same finger, on the same person? Interesting.. Let's see where this is going..
Now, the sensor works by detecting your finger touching the steel band, so it's capacitive. When he puts the paper on the sensor, it clearly does nothing, but when he puts the SAME finger that he used for the print.. It magically unlocks. Why?
The sensor is reading the print through multiple layers, it is merely treating the paper as another layer of skin, therefore, it unlocks.
Until I see this German folk do the same thing, with a different print copied, and use another different person who is using a different finger to "fake" this, I call BS.
I'm not as easily conned by them, and just for a side note, it seems all they're doing is scamming the people who are offering bounties for this. Being a computer club full of guys, imagine what they would buy $16k worth of..
Debunked, and I'll be using the sensor because so far, it has not been hacked/faked.
I posted a few minutes ago the same solution as you about the way the Germans probably faked it....Great minds think alike .....LOL
However, on looking again at the video, I saw that they used the index finger to teach the Touch ID, but then used the second finger to lift the transparent film they claim to have the fingerprint image and press it of the sensor.
However there was nothing to stop them previously have taught Touch ID off camera to recognise the fingerprint of the second finger.
You say "Until I see this German folk do the same thing, with a different print copied, and use another different person who is using a different finger to "fake" this, I call BS."
Even if they use a different person it still does not prove they have really defeated Touch ID - because they could have taught Touch ID the fingerprint of the other person before, off camera.
Don't forget Touch ID can learn to recognise 5 different fingerprints
The other key thing is that Touch ID cannot be fooled by a 2-D image - which is what they are basically using on that transparent film.
Also their video does not even show that they were successful in fooling Touch ID, becuase the video mysteriously stopped just before showing that they were successful - HOW CONVENIENT ....LOL
Anyone with a level head probably realized the TouchID system would be defeated in quick order. That said, it still may still prove to be an effective deterrent for crimes of opportunity (which I'd imagine most phone thefts are). Only time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98
And here we go, FingerGate begins
But seriously what's up with the SUBepidermal reading claims if this can be hacked with simple visual pattern scan?
Yes. Whatever the "misleading-ness" factor of the video, what about that (along with the claim that it had to be "a living finger")? Anyone have a learned reaction?
All locks can be "beaten." The only real value of any lock is to keep out honest people who might see an inroad to do something not so honest.
If someone is trying to simply get into a phone and there are five phones on a table, they're NOT going to go after one which requires you to 1) Leave your fingerprints on a piece of glass somewhere 2) Know that they are YOUR fingerprints and this is your phone 3) Use advanced techniques to copy the fingerprint and hope it has enough resolution to work 4) Have the knowledge of computer application such that they can take the image, scan it, and invert it without adding any errors (noise) and keeping a high level of resolution 5) Print it onto a transparent sheet without adding noise and keeping the same level of resolution 6) Know how to use just enough latex or white glue to cover the image without distortion or adding noise 7) Peal it carefully away from the transparency, again, without distorting it 8) Know exactly how much moisture to add to it to make it reactive to the device
So, really? Do you really think some crook is going to go to all that trouble to find out what's on your phone? If they're going to do all that work they may as well break into your office or home and get it off of your computer.
No lock is 100% safe. The Mac is not impervious to malware. Right now, your chance of getting malware on the Mac when compared to Windows machines is approximately one million to five. So if I saw five phones on a table%u2014three 5s iPhones, a Samsung running Android or a Nokia running Windows%u2014and I wanted to get into them, I'd go with the Samsung or Nokia. Why should I make my work difficult?
Uh.. How exactly is a finger print unlock the best?
I can trace the exact pattern from any android phone/tablet because of human oil, and I have an Android phone which I've used the pattern unlock before.. Get off your high horse, it's a delusion.
Oh really? So if you see a pattern left behind from oil, do you know where the patter started and what the order of the patter was? Didn't think so. You would know this if you actually used a pattern lock. And all it takes is an easy wipe to get rid of the oil pattern mark. Finger prints? Yeah go ahead and burn them off. lol.
Oh and what's your response to my point of having to constantly take gloves on and off just to unlock your phone? Everyone that went on an on about how much time you save with this lock, doesn't want to address the glove issue. Hmmm.....
$6K is hardly a lot of money. In case you missed it they found out yesterday that the guy offering the $10K was probably lying and today they pretty much proved it was just publicity. He had no intention of parting with several thousand, saying he's not that liquid.
Actually they were offering $12k plus booze, plus other goodies.
But that's chicken feed
However, you can be sure that Samsung would be happy to pay many times that to discredit the iPhone 5S, which has made their Galaxy 4S into a slow, lumbering dynasour....LOL
There's so many falsities in your moronic, mindless troll post, that one does not know where to start.
"Best and easiest"? Really? Easier than leaving my finger on the home button for a fraction of a second after clicking it? How the **** does that NOT improve user experience? Do you even know what that word means? Touch ID will be used hundreds of times a day by hundreds of millions of people. That does not qualify as a "gimmick".
Better quality screen? Scientific tests have shown that the iPhone 5/5s screen is literally the best in the industry, by a dozen or so metrics. Larger? Thats simply your personal preference.
The only gimmick is your post, which is asinine on so many levels. I have a Nexus 4. No, the pattern unlock is not the be-all-and-end-all of security. After getting used to touch ID, it seems like an obsolete, stone-age hassle.
Again, what about the gloves in the winter time? Yeah, didn't think you cared to address that issue. Hmm.....
The guys offering the reward put up a notice about CCC on their site. I hope they don't accept an edited video - it needs to be a complete video of the entire process in real time. This is important as it shows just what's involved.
You can keep up with the status here from one of the two researchers who set up the challenge.
Oh really? So if you see a pattern left behind from oil, do you know where the patter started and what the order of the patter was? Didn't think so. You would know this if you actually used a pattern lock. And all it takes is an easy wipe to get rid of the oil pattern mark. Finger prints? Yeah go ahead and burn them off. lol.
Oh and what's your response to my point of having to constantly take gloves on and off just to unlock your phone? Everyone that went on an on about how much time you save with this lock, doesn't want to address the glove issue. Hmmm.....
Denial is a helluva drug.
Yes, actually I HAVE successfully unlocked my friend's phones with looking at the oil pattern. It doesn't take an idiot. An easy swipe to get rid of it? Please. My GNote keeps those oil marks on there even if I wipe it... So that point falls.
Yes, good, you actually have a point about the gloves, yet everything else is mere stupidity. There's only two possible combos to figure out where the pattern started and ended. Just look merely at the end points of the line dude, it isn't hard at all, why do you think my friends want to keep their phones away from me? Have fun with that.
Oh, and might I mention in my experience and other's experience that it only works 1/2 the time, since you try to do it as fast as possible, and then end up screwing up the pattern since you missed a dot? Yeah, totally convenient. /s
Sorry, best and easiest way is the pattern unlock that android uses. Apple should have put more money towards a better user experience, bigger and better screen, and better hardware overall. The fingerprint lock is useless in winter. What a hassle to keep taking off gloves to unlock my phone. I like what Nokia and Samsung did with the touchscreens that work with gloves. Get on it Apple. Stop these stupid gimmicks.
Anyone with a level head probably realized the TouchID system would be defeated in quick order. That said, it still may still prove to be an effective deterrent for crimes of opportunity (which I'd imagine most phone thefts are). Only time will tell.
It is better than nothing - something a lot of people use to secure their phone (I'm agreeing with your latter statement)
Another reason I think the media is running with this story is because touch id actually works. They were all hoping to be able to write stories about how it doesn't work. But so far there haven't been any reviews or antidotes that it isn't working for people. Basically all the reviews said it was pretty easy to set up and once enabled worked every time. Of course that's not what the media wanted to hear. So they find out that someone has supposedly "hacked" it and they run with the story,
All locks can be "beaten." The only real value of any lock is to keep out honest people who might see an inroad to do something not so honest.
If someone is trying to simply get into a phone and there are five phones on a table, they're NOT going to go after one which requires you to
1) Leave your fingerprints on a piece of glass somewhere
2) Know that they are YOUR fingerprints and this is your phone
3) Use advanced techniques to copy the fingerprint and hope it has enough resolution to work
4) Have the knowledge of computer application such that they can take the image, scan it, and invert it without adding any errors (noise) and keeping a high level of resolution
5) Print it onto a transparent sheet without adding noise and keeping the same level of resolution
6) Know how to use just enough latex or white glue to cover the image without distortion or adding noise
7) Peal it carefully away from the transparency, again, without distorting it
8) Know exactly how much moisture to add to it to make it reactive to the device
So, really? Do you really think some crook is going to go to all that trouble to find out what's on your phone? If they're going to do all that work they may as well break into your office or home and get it off of your computer.
No lock is 100% safe. The Mac is not impervious to malware. Right now, your chance of getting malware on the Mac when compared to Windows machines is approximately one million to five. So if I saw five phones on a table%u2014three 5s iPhones, a Samsung running Android or a Nokia running Windows%u2014and I wanted to get into them, I'd go with the Samsung or Nokia. Why should I make my work difficult?
Yes you are so right.
Even if for sake of argument this method to hack into the iOPhone 5S actually worked (and there are very good reasons to suspect it doesn't) you have rightly pointed out just how difficult and time consuming it would be.
Not worth the effort when you consider that most phones are not protected at all by passwords/PINs because it is such a time consuming hassle. Ease and speed of Touch ID means that users are much more likely to safeguard their iPhone than with other methods.
The swipe method used by some Android is also incredibly insecure, because there are so few swipe gestures and they are very easy for somebody to see you using them.
However, this German method to fool Touch ID seems highly improbable and as explained in my earlier comments, careful observation of the video shows how the method is probably totally fake.
Also , the video does not even show the Germans actually successfully gaining access....LOL
Yes, actually I HAVE successfully unlocked my friend's phones with looking at the oil pattern. It doesn't take an idiot. An easy swipe to get rid of it? Please. My GNote keeps those oil marks on there even if I wipe it... So that point falls.
Oh, and might I mention in my experience and other's experience that it only works 1/2 the time, since you try to do it as fast as possible, and then end up screwing up the pattern since you missed a dot? Yeah, totally convenient. /s
Sorry to hear you don't know how to wipe your screen or that your friends can't come up with a complex pattern. And sorry to hear you blame the locking mechanism because the idiotic user didn't know how to connect the dots. Wow! Like I said, Denial is a helluva drug.
In the end I say don't worry what me or others think about this ridiculous gimmick. The inconvenience of having to constantly take your gloves off is enough reason to not want to use it. Come this winter, anyone with a GS4 can happily swipe in their pattern lock and never have to be inconvenienced with CONSTANTLY taking off their gloves. Samsung was smart enough to know this. Apple? Not so much.
Comments
We'll have to wait and see if this is independently replicated.
Sorry, best and easiest way is the pattern unlock that android uses. Apple should have put more money towards a better user experience, bigger and better screen, and better hardware overall. The fingerprint lock is useless in winter. What a hassle to keep taking off gloves to unlock my phone. I like what Nokia and Samsung did with the touchscreens that work with gloves. Get on it Apple. Stop these stupid gimmicks.
There's so many falsities in your moronic, mindless troll post, that one does not know where to start.
That seems to be the interesting aspect. Seems the Apple implementation is not significantly more resistant to hacking than any of the previous implementations. Still useful as a convenience, but hardly an innovative breakthrough.
On really? Seems to me there's a lot of rush to judgement based on one YouTube video.
Believe what you want. You might want to remember that precisely this procedure was published in 2004 by the CCC and used effectively to demonstrate the absurd claim of the then German Interior Minister (Wolfgang Schäuble) that fingerprints were a secure means of idenification and authentication. They made Schäuble look like a complete idiot. For a while you could even buy Coffee Mugs with his "authentic fingerprint". So it's really trivial to fake fingerprints by this method which doesn't require any technology that's not available in millions of households round the world.
Gather 'round children, gather 'round.
Watch me debunk this.
Let me first start out by bringing out the fact that this sensor DOES scan the sub epidermal layers of your skin(which means it scans multiple layers of your skin to ensure it's yours).
Keep that fact in mind..
Now, when watching the video, you can see the person obviously successfully registering his finger print(his index finger), and it works quite well and very fast.
Then look at the finger print he copied. Notice how he used the same print, from the same finger, on the same person? Interesting.. Let's see where this is going..
Now, the sensor works by detecting your finger touching the steel band, so it's capacitive. When he puts the paper on the sensor, it clearly does nothing, but when he puts the SAME finger that he used for the print.. It magically unlocks. Why?
The sensor is reading the print through multiple layers, it is merely treating the paper as another layer of skin, therefore, it unlocks.
Until I see this German folk do the same thing, with a different print copied, and use another different person who is using a different finger to "fake" this, I call BS.
I'm not as easily conned by them, and just for a side note, it seems all they're doing is scamming the people who are offering bounties for this. Being a computer club full of guys, imagine what they would buy $16k worth of..
Debunked, and I'll be using the sensor because so far, it has not been hacked/faked.
I posted a few minutes ago the same solution as you about the way the Germans probably faked it....Great minds think alike .....LOL
Even if they use a different person it still does not prove they have really defeated Touch ID - because they could have taught Touch ID the fingerprint of the other person before, off camera.
Don't forget Touch ID can learn to recognise 5 different fingerprints
The other key thing is that Touch ID cannot be fooled by a 2-D image - which is what they are basically using on that transparent film.
Also their video does not even show that they were successful in fooling Touch ID, becuase the video mysteriously stopped just before showing that they were successful - HOW CONVENIENT ....LOL
Anyone with a level head probably realized the TouchID system would be defeated in quick order. That said, it still may still prove to be an effective deterrent for crimes of opportunity (which I'd imagine most phone thefts are). Only time will tell.
And here we go, FingerGate begins
But seriously what's up with the SUBepidermal reading claims if this can be hacked with simple visual pattern scan?
Yes. Whatever the "misleading-ness" factor of the video, what about that (along with the claim that it had to be "a living finger")? Anyone have a learned reaction?
If someone is trying to simply get into a phone and there are five phones on a table, they're NOT going to go after one which requires you to
1) Leave your fingerprints on a piece of glass somewhere
2) Know that they are YOUR fingerprints and this is your phone
3) Use advanced techniques to copy the fingerprint and hope it has enough resolution to work
4) Have the knowledge of computer application such that they can take the image, scan it, and invert it without adding any errors (noise) and keeping a high level of resolution
5) Print it onto a transparent sheet without adding noise and keeping the same level of resolution
6) Know how to use just enough latex or white glue to cover the image without distortion or adding noise
7) Peal it carefully away from the transparency, again, without distorting it
8) Know exactly how much moisture to add to it to make it reactive to the device
So, really? Do you really think some crook is going to go to all that trouble to find out what's on your phone? If they're going to do all that work they may as well break into your office or home and get it off of your computer.
No lock is 100% safe. The Mac is not impervious to malware. Right now, your chance of getting malware on the Mac when compared to Windows machines is approximately one million to five. So if I saw five phones on a table%u2014three 5s iPhones, a Samsung running Android or a Nokia running Windows%u2014and I wanted to get into them, I'd go with the Samsung or Nokia. Why should I make my work difficult?
Uh.. How exactly is a finger print unlock the best?
I can trace the exact pattern from any android phone/tablet because of human oil, and I have an Android phone which I've used the pattern unlock before.. Get off your high horse, it's a delusion.
Oh really? So if you see a pattern left behind from oil, do you know where the patter started and what the order of the patter was? Didn't think so. You would know this if you actually used a pattern lock. And all it takes is an easy wipe to get rid of the oil pattern mark. Finger prints? Yeah go ahead and burn them off. lol.
Oh and what's your response to my point of having to constantly take gloves on and off just to unlock your phone? Everyone that went on an on about how much time you save with this lock, doesn't want to address the glove issue. Hmmm.....
What 'mistake'? Nothing has been shown yet.
Calm down.
$6K is hardly a lot of money. In case you missed it they found out yesterday that the guy offering the $10K was probably lying and today they pretty much proved it was just publicity. He had no intention of parting with several thousand, saying he's not that liquid.
Actually they were offering $12k plus booze, plus other goodies.
But that's chicken feed
However, you can be sure that Samsung would be happy to pay many times that to discredit the iPhone 5S, which has made their Galaxy 4S into a slow, lumbering dynasour....LOL
There's so many falsities in your moronic, mindless troll post, that one does not know where to start.
Again, what about the gloves in the winter time? Yeah, didn't think you cared to address that issue. Hmm.....
The guys offering the reward put up a notice about CCC on their site. I hope they don't accept an edited video - it needs to be a complete video of the entire process in real time. This is important as it shows just what's involved.
You can keep up with the status here from one of the two researchers who set up the challenge.
https://twitter.com/nickdepetrillo
Just let us know when it's been confirmed.
Oh really? So if you see a pattern left behind from oil, do you know where the patter started and what the order of the patter was? Didn't think so. You would know this if you actually used a pattern lock. And all it takes is an easy wipe to get rid of the oil pattern mark. Finger prints? Yeah go ahead and burn them off. lol.
Oh and what's your response to my point of having to constantly take gloves on and off just to unlock your phone? Everyone that went on an on about how much time you save with this lock, doesn't want to address the glove issue. Hmmm.....
Yes, actually I HAVE successfully unlocked my friend's phones with looking at the oil pattern. It doesn't take an idiot. An easy swipe to get rid of it? Please. My GNote keeps those oil marks on there even if I wipe it... So that point falls.
Sorry, best and easiest way is the pattern unlock that android uses. Apple should have put more money towards a better user experience, bigger and better screen, and better hardware overall. The fingerprint lock is useless in winter. What a hassle to keep taking off gloves to unlock my phone. I like what Nokia and Samsung did with the touchscreens that work with gloves. Get on it Apple. Stop these stupid gimmicks.
Groan...
My GNote keeps those oil marks on there even if I wipe it...
It sounds like you may have a defective device. You should be able to wipe your screen clean.
All locks can be "beaten." The only real value of any lock is to keep out honest people who might see an inroad to do something not so honest.
If someone is trying to simply get into a phone and there are five phones on a table, they're NOT going to go after one which requires you to
1) Leave your fingerprints on a piece of glass somewhere
2) Know that they are YOUR fingerprints and this is your phone
3) Use advanced techniques to copy the fingerprint and hope it has enough resolution to work
4) Have the knowledge of computer application such that they can take the image, scan it, and invert it without adding any errors (noise) and keeping a high level of resolution
5) Print it onto a transparent sheet without adding noise and keeping the same level of resolution
6) Know how to use just enough latex or white glue to cover the image without distortion or adding noise
7) Peal it carefully away from the transparency, again, without distorting it
8) Know exactly how much moisture to add to it to make it reactive to the device
So, really? Do you really think some crook is going to go to all that trouble to find out what's on your phone? If they're going to do all that work they may as well break into your office or home and get it off of your computer.
No lock is 100% safe. The Mac is not impervious to malware. Right now, your chance of getting malware on the Mac when compared to Windows machines is approximately one million to five. So if I saw five phones on a table%u2014three 5s iPhones, a Samsung running Android or a Nokia running Windows%u2014and I wanted to get into them, I'd go with the Samsung or Nokia. Why should I make my work difficult?
Yes you are so right.
Even if for sake of argument this method to hack into the iOPhone 5S actually worked (and there are very good reasons to suspect it doesn't) you have rightly pointed out just how difficult and time consuming it would be.
Not worth the effort when you consider that most phones are not protected at all by passwords/PINs because it is such a time consuming hassle. Ease and speed of Touch ID means that users are much more likely to safeguard their iPhone than with other methods.
The swipe method used by some Android is also incredibly insecure, because there are so few swipe gestures and they are very easy for somebody to see you using them.
However, this German method to fool Touch ID seems highly improbable and as explained in my earlier comments, careful observation of the video shows how the method is probably totally fake.
Also , the video does not even show the Germans actually successfully gaining access....LOL
Yes, actually I HAVE successfully unlocked my friend's phones with looking at the oil pattern. It doesn't take an idiot. An easy swipe to get rid of it? Please. My GNote keeps those oil marks on there even if I wipe it... So that point falls.
Sorry to hear you don't know how to wipe your screen or that your friends can't come up with a complex pattern. And sorry to hear you blame the locking mechanism because the idiotic user didn't know how to connect the dots. Wow! Like I said, Denial is a helluva drug.
In the end I say don't worry what me or others think about this ridiculous gimmick. The inconvenience of having to constantly take your gloves off is enough reason to not want to use it. Come this winter, anyone with a GS4 can happily swipe in their pattern lock and never have to be inconvenienced with CONSTANTLY taking off their gloves. Samsung was smart enough to know this. Apple? Not so much.