Apple's new A7 CPU dissected to reveal 28nm manufacturing process

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  • Reply 21 of 54
    apple ][ wrote: »
    My iPad 3 is starting to feel a bit weak, especially when using certain apps. And while I do like iOS 7, I do notice that it is slightly more processor intensive than iOS 6. 

    I look forward to getting my new iPad 5 next month, which will have even more power than the iPhone 5s A7 chip, since it will be clocked higher.

    Agree. My iPad 3 is a bit sluggish with ios7. Not awful, but it really does stutter on some apps.
  • Reply 22 of 54
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

    Pretty sure Samsung is already making the A6X.  A7X if produced would most likely come from Samsung just because of the similarities. 

    I don't see how they would split A7 between 2 different fabs, it's not just simply a 1:1 copy, a lot of work would need to be done to integrate with TSMC's fab/process. Also any split would undoubtedly effect unit price, why would apple compromise their margin and increase their complexity by splitting across 2 different fabs? Doesn't make sense to me.

    A8 and onwards, who knows. 


    I agree on the A7 (first batches need to minimize variations).

     

    However, on the A6X and A6, I would argue that TMSC can be making these chips in parallel for other products (5c?).  Again, If you feel the analysts misread the pipeline by focusing only on Samsung, then you would assume that there are multiple sources for the A series chips.

     

    You say 'compromise' as if it's a bad thing;-)

     

    Why do investors hedge investments.  It's a long term risk reduction strategy.  I may make less money, but I won't lose MORE money.

    (Why do people build a DR site?  Why do people put some of their Cloud in AWS, and some in Rackspace?)

     

    If you put the risk on TMSC and drive them to competitive par with Samsung.   You spend a little money avoiding a 'single point of failure' (failure in ability to deliver, failure in ability to negotiate lower prices, failure distribute risk to your supplier).   If you control the QA, have proper vendor controls in place, then a diverse supply chain is a good thing.

     

    And long term, if TMSC pans out, and if Samsung sees there is real competition for the account, then the negotiations are from a position of strength.   

     

    The beauty of Apple is that their 'game' is not played on 90 day or 365 day profit cycles.   They can invest in their roadmap 2-3 years ahead of where they need to be.   Sort of like Flash Memory during the iPod days… Buying up all the Flash capacity the year before.  Genius.

     

    Apple is playing Go, where most of the rest of the tech leaders are playing checkers (I see how you did that… I can do that too).

     

    Except Amazon… They are playing Calvinball.

  • Reply 23 of 54
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 22,886member
    jragosta wrote: »
    They don't have access to phones or email at Samsung?

    Nope. All email is dumped the second it's received at Samsung. You don't remember the recent discovery issue in the Apple lawsuit?
  • Reply 24 of 54
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by allenbf View Post





    Agree. My iPad 3 is a bit sluggish with ios7. Not awful, but it really does stutter on some apps.

     

    Same with my iPhone 4s… screen transisitions seem slow…

     


    But… I've threatened it with a 5s upgrade… It will either improve or be sent to some unknowing relative as a regifted phone;-)
  • Reply 25 of 54
    jragosta wrote: »
    I don't know about the iPad, but iOS 7 on my iPhone 5 is every bit as fast as iOS 6 was. I don't see any difference at all.

    I gave my iPhone 5 to my daughter since my 5s will arrive this week, and you're correct: iOS 7 is smooth on the phone.
  • Reply 26 of 54
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 22,886member
    I agree on the A7 (first batches need to minimize variations).

    However, on the A6X and A6, I would argue that TMSC can be making these chips in parallel for other products (5c?).  Again, If you feel the analysts misread the pipeline by focusing only on Samsung, then you would assume that there are multiple sources for the A series chips

    Apple does not list Taiwan Semiconductor as a supplier of any 2013 products or components.
    http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Apple_Supplier_List_2013.pdf
  • Reply 27 of 54
    Same with my iPhone 4s… screen transisitions seem slow…
     
    But… I've threatened it with a 5s upgrade… It will either improve or be sent to some unknowing relative as a regifted phone;-)

    I'm using a 4s right now on iOS 7 too. It doesn't handle as well as iOS 6. But this 4s also has a cracked screen so it's the least of my annoyances ha! 5s is supposed to arrive tomorrow!
  • Reply 28 of 54

    Enjoy that contract money while it lasts, Samsung.

    Apple could go with TSMC and/or Intel next year with a 20nm process.

  • Reply 29 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

     

      Again, If you feel the analysts misread the pipeline by focusing only on Samsung, then you would assume that there are multiple sources for the A series chips.

     

     


     

    I think it's pretty clear that the analysts misread a lot of things. I didn't see anything that indicated that Samsung fab capacity was a factor in number of phones available at launch or otherwise, or maybe I'm missing your point?

  • Reply 30 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    They don't have access to phones or email at Samsung?

    Did I claim such a thing? Yes, they do. That doesn't constitute them being "across the street".

     

    Jeez having to actually defend Scamsung on something...

  • Reply 31 of 54
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

     

    Did they get that right 

     

     

    So Apple makes a 64 bits processor and Samsung phone business had no clue was was happening across the street in the Fab.


     

    Probably not.

     


    As the chip goes through pilot and into production, Apple will have been guiding the device through the fab.  Ultimately, assuming Samsung didn't get a lot of chance to look very closely at the reticles used in photo (and Apple will have guarded access to them closely), it's very difficult to tell the structure of a device as it's manufactured, beyond being able to see generally, that part is memory, that part is logic etc.


     


    As long as you name your recipes sensibly, it gives little away.  As an example, if you called as step, I don't know, SDEIMP for the Source-Drain Extension Implant, you wouldn't know if that was implanting a gate for a 16bit, 32bit, 64 bit processor (or even a gate for a memory block).  If, however, you called it SDEIMPFORA64BITPROCESSOR, you'd probably give a little more away.......
  • Reply 32 of 54
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,307member
    allenbf wrote: »
    Agree. My iPad 3 is a bit sluggish with ios7. Not awful, but it really does stutter on some apps.

    Try disabling some Spotlight options. I saw an immediate, huge speed increase when I disabled music. I have only iCoud based music on iDevices now via iTunes Match so I wondered if this might make a difference and boy did it. Not sure why, I doubt it was indexing them in the cloud but ya never know! :\
  • Reply 33 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

    You seem to be implying that Samsung Semiconductor has broken the apple NDA before? Did I miss something?


     

    Samsung Electronics, it's parent company.   and yes it's an implication.  Not bearing in fact.   The fact is Samsung is under injunction to be ready to prove that any designs of it's devices must not be derivative of Apple Product technically or in 'dress.'   The fact that that paper exists, give them 'faster entry' into any Samsung business, as the court has already ruled in favor.   No Samsung Semi person will risk another Billion of punitive damages in sharing proprietary product information with anyone outside those that need to know.

  • Reply 34 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

     

     

    1. Samsung Electronics, it's parent company.   and yes it's an implication.  Not bearing in fact.   The fact is Samsung is under injunction to be ready to prove that any designs of it's devices must not be derivative of Apple Product technically or in 'dress.'   The fact that that paper exists, give them 'faster entry' into any Samsung business, as the court has already ruled in favor.   

     

    2.No Samsung Semi person will risk another Billion of punitive damages in sharing proprietary product information with anyone outside those that need to know.


     

    I don't see how these are even related, how is #2 covered by #1?   

  • Reply 35 of 54
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

     

    I think it's pretty clear that the analysts misread a lot of things. I didn't see anything that indicated that Samsung fab capacity was a factor in number of phones available at launch or otherwise, or maybe I'm missing your point?


     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

     

    I think it's pretty clear that the analysts misread a lot of things. I didn't see anything that indicated that Samsung fab capacity was a factor in number of phones available at launch or otherwise, or maybe I'm missing your point?


    Misek proclaimed (via cnet) in June: "Our checks also indicate that Apple's wafer starts at Samsung's Austin fab have likely been cut"

     

    Maybe that's 'otherwise' but that's my reference.  One could argue that's retroactive (and not forward looking), but the premise of his guidance was 'Apple to cut iPhone orders for the rest of the [2013] year.'  

     

    And I wasn't presupposing launch, just A6 chip starts.

  • Reply 36 of 54
    Try disabling some Spotlight options. I saw an immediate, huge speed increase when I disabled music. I have only iCoud based music on iDevices now via iTunes Match so I wondered if this might make a difference and boy did it. Not sure why, I doubt it was indexing them in the cloud but ya never know! :\

    Hey thanks for the tip! Will try that this evening.
  • Reply 37 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Apple does not list Taiwan Semiconductor as a supplier of any 2013 products or components.

    http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Apple_Supplier_List_2013.pdf

     

    Dated… January 2013.  over 9 months have passed.  the 5c and 5s weren't products at that time.  I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that data point is probably not accurately reflecting Sept 20th status.

  • Reply 38 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

     

     

    Misek proclaimed (via cnet) in June: "Our checks also indicate that Apple's wafer starts at Samsung's Austin fab have likely been cut"

     

    Maybe that's 'otherwise' but that's my reference.  One could argue that's retroactive (and not forward looking), but the premise of his guidance was 'Apple to cut iPhone orders for the rest of the [2013] year.'  

     

    And I wasn't presupposing launch, just A6 chip starts.


     

    Aaah, the famous Misek.

  • Reply 39 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

     

    I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that data point is probably not accurately reflecting Sept 20th status.


     

    I would agree with that. And to quote Tim Cook

     


    "even if a particular data point were factual, it would be impossible to interpret that data point as to what it meant for our business."
  • Reply 40 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

     

    I don't see how these are even related, how is #2 covered by #1?   


     

    It was noted in the trial closing arguments (I can't find the transcripts of the evidence produced and them tying it to the email memos that led to the 'crisis in design' moment where the copying was supposedly authorized)  that Samsung SemiConductor, in the course of doing business with apple was becoming more interested in the 3GS 'aesthetics' asking more and more questions about it in 2008 (why would a chip group ask about rubber banding and rounded square icons), and then they created a competitive analysis of the iPhones and presented it internally [not the mobility group, the semi group].  The semi group outsources a Teardown of iPhones, to determine the rest of the functionality…  Not the work of a zealous partner….

     

    So it is related, in the past, and if your [only] business is building chips for large clients, the future.

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