Best evidence yet that this technology has no place being issued to every student. Keep a lid on it in the school lab. Not so much because it doesn't have a legitimate use but because the little bastards can't be trusted. And their parents are probably no better. Old dad probably would be on xhamster.com with the kid's iPad.
This is not a "computer" that's being used to teach computer programming, but a tool that presumably is being used throughout the day. It doesn't just belong in a "computer lab". That's thinking from 30 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog
One thing that is interesting about this program is each kid will also have an Apple ID. There is another big source of potential trouble for the district and Apple.
Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
"Complaints"?? I'll fix that. Go buy your own f#!king iPad then. You're given one (technically for free for school use) and suddenly they feel they should do what they want with it?
If I were their age, I'd probably do the same thing and hack it simply because of my curiosity and challenge. However, I'd expect them to clamp down on it if word got out. It's an expectation simply because... it's not mine!!
During the school day, I think the students should be restricted. You don't want them using Facebook or watching YouTube videos when they're supposed to be paying attention to a lesson. But I don't understand restricting the devices when they're not in school because most of the students probably have other devices at home anyway where they can access anything they want anyway.
If this were elementary or junior high school, I could understand the concerns. But these are high school students and some of those seniors may even already be 18. Instead of restricting the use of these devices, the school system should be teaching kids how to use them responsibly. The kids should be taught about the dangers of putting too much personal information out there, the dangers of "sexting", how anything you say or do online can haunt you for the rest of your life, the effects of online bullying, etc. They should have to take an exam on those issues and only then be issued a machine. And they should take the machines away (at least for a time) from anyone who violates the account or security restrictions on the machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53
The blame is on the IT managers not the students. Proper configuration of an MDM system would have kept them out. The MDM has a separate admin password for all system changes. This is inexcusable. I'd bet the IT managers and techs (if they had any) never read the manuals.
That's probably the case. I bet this was about "oh, we'll get the kids iPads and then they'll have technical knowledge and will be able to get good jobs later in life." The idiots at the Bd of Ed who decided to do this probably don't understand the difference between designing a device or creating an application and using apps on the device. If a student doesn't do any studying or preparation in the non-virtual world, they're not going to do any in the online world either.
Sort of OT but we have byod at my workplace. After they set up my iPhone I couldn't recieve images in text messages. Since upgrading to IOS7 that restriction disappeared. I am not telling them!
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">there's no way they can secure this stuff. they should start being realistic and stop trying to prevent kids from being kids.</span>
IDIOTS !!
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">If a school board is going to use iPads, that's great. But they need to use the devices whole-heartedly. They can't expect to out-smart kids and put silly security settings on - it won't work in this day and age.</span>
There’s something very wrong with you two.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Don't sweat TS. He doesn't have a clue on this one. Apple's account team for LAUSD is all over this by now. It won't take much effort for a field service rep to show them the proper way to use Apple Configurator.</span>
Explain what contractual, moral, or ethical obligation Apple has for doing this.
Did I say anything about Apple not doing it? You should already know the answer to that. In fact, I expect Apple to do something, simply because they’re Apple. But they have no responsibility to do so. Come off it, man.
They likely have a contractural obligation as part of the deal that was signed. Deals this size either have contractural support or at least a long honeymoon support phase. They have a customer service obligation, otherwise the deployment may stop and the devices could go back to Apple. As someone else mentioned, this looks to be a defect with multiple profiles. Apple needs this out of the news ASAP.
IMO, home schooling or work-group style learning is far superior to the traditional American school model. Intelligent students are only brought down by class clowns and social miscreants and creative students who don't fit into a factory-like "educational" setting have little hope of actually learning.
Home schooling only works when there's a parent who is organized, disciplined, understands the content and has the ability to communicate it. That's a very small minority especially since most parents in this country were not educated any better than today's kids are. The advantage of home schooling is that you can accomplish far more in less time because you're basically teaching 1:1. My granddaughter is home schooled (elementary school) and they tried sending her to a private school last year and the academics even at this expensive school were so bad, they had to pull her out after a month, because she was already at least two years ahead of the other kids. But there's also a disadvantage to home schooling in that learning how to interact with other kids (especially the miscreants) is a very important skill as well as learning how to act in a group environment. Kids also tend to behave better with third parties than they do with their own parents.
But when it comes down to it, young students do not require an iPad or any other electronic device. Aside from book bag weight, there is no advantage to reading a book online as compared to reading a print edition. And the library is free as opposed to having to purchase ebooks. When kids do research, they should be consulting original sources, not Wikipedia. It doesn't take a genius to excerpt material out of Wikipedia, which is what most kids wind up doing these days. And since it's easier for most kids to watch a video than read material, they tend to seek out video material of frequently questionable educational quality. All of this gets in the way of being an educated person. What I have seen with my own grandkids is that when they have access to these devices, they very quickly become an addiction. I see 2 1/2 year olds on the subway with game devices and while their fine motor skills are incredible, they're already absurdly hyperactive.
Where I do agree with you is about the factory like educational system that we still employ. We really haven't changed our approach to teaching in 70 years. We still have a teacher at the front of the room lecturing to students sitting at desks and once the students reach middle- or junior high- there is almost no interdisciplinary study so students never understand how everything they're supposedly learning relates to each other. And while there's a big push to increase the length of the school day, if you have a factory making defective parts, running the factory longer isn't going to help. This is true for higher education as well. The only thing we've changed over 70 years is that we've watered-down the material because we want the kids to "feel good".
They likely have a contractural obligation as part of the deal that was signed. Deals this size either have contractural support or at least a long honeymoon support phase. They have a customer service obligation, otherwise the deployment may stop and the devices could go back to Apple. As someone else mentioned, this looks to be a defect with multiple profiles. Apple needs this out of the news ASAP.
Oh! Well, that’s another story entirely. If Apple was contracted for tech work beyond that of standard AppleCare (does business have a separate AppleCare; I forget), then sure thing. But if it was just a bulk purchase… And anyway, shouldn’t the local network admin at least know what he’s working with before pushing it all out?
A proper mdm system would allow them to keep the profiles from being deleted as long as the device is setup to be in "managed" mode, right?
That is correct...an MDM can be setup so it cannot be removed. The one poster who said they couldn't is full of crap. If it was so easily deleted, then what is the point of forcing it in the first place? He obviously hasn't a clue how to use an MDM, and/or has never used one before. Even with Profile Manager you can setup the profile so it cannot be removed.
You should be using both Configurator and an MDM. Even Apple will tell you this. Configurator will supervise the device which opens up other restrictions. Then use your MDM to manage the device without having to plug in to make changes. Your MDM will allow you do make changes on the fly without needed to plug back into a Mac.
Apparently, there was no perfect choice in this particular case. The next version of Configurator will likely close this little loophole.
Which smart kids will learn to exploit again, of course.
The real solution is to have the kids and their parents rent or buy their own equipment. For the demonstrably underprivileged, have them check out in the morning and check back in their iPad at the end of the day.
Frankly, the entire public school system amounts to factory era child care + brainwashing. Kids are better off learning at their own pace on their own and in small work groups... just like in life!
Comments
Best evidence yet that this technology has no place being issued to every student. Keep a lid on it in the school lab. Not so much because it doesn't have a legitimate use but because the little bastards can't be trusted. And their parents are probably no better. Old dad probably would be on xhamster.com with the kid's iPad.
This is not a "computer" that's being used to teach computer programming, but a tool that presumably is being used throughout the day. It doesn't just belong in a "computer lab". That's thinking from 30 years ago.
One thing that is interesting about this program is each kid will also have an Apple ID. There is another big source of potential trouble for the district and Apple.
Why?
"Complaints"?? I'll fix that. Go buy your own f#!king iPad then. You're given one (technically for free for school use) and suddenly they feel they should do what they want with it?
If I were their age, I'd probably do the same thing and hack it simply because of my curiosity and challenge. However, I'd expect them to clamp down on it if word got out. It's an expectation simply because... it's not mine!!
During the school day, I think the students should be restricted. You don't want them using Facebook or watching YouTube videos when they're supposed to be paying attention to a lesson. But I don't understand restricting the devices when they're not in school because most of the students probably have other devices at home anyway where they can access anything they want anyway.
If this were elementary or junior high school, I could understand the concerns. But these are high school students and some of those seniors may even already be 18. Instead of restricting the use of these devices, the school system should be teaching kids how to use them responsibly. The kids should be taught about the dangers of putting too much personal information out there, the dangers of "sexting", how anything you say or do online can haunt you for the rest of your life, the effects of online bullying, etc. They should have to take an exam on those issues and only then be issued a machine. And they should take the machines away (at least for a time) from anyone who violates the account or security restrictions on the machines.
The blame is on the IT managers not the students. Proper configuration of an MDM system would have kept them out. The MDM has a separate admin password for all system changes. This is inexcusable. I'd bet the IT managers and techs (if they had any) never read the manuals.
That's probably the case. I bet this was about "oh, we'll get the kids iPads and then they'll have technical knowledge and will be able to get good jobs later in life." The idiots at the Bd of Ed who decided to do this probably don't understand the difference between designing a device or creating an application and using apps on the device. If a student doesn't do any studying or preparation in the non-virtual world, they're not going to do any in the online world either.
Sort of OT but we have byod at my workplace. After they set up my iPhone I couldn't recieve images in text messages. Since upgrading to IOS7 that restriction disappeared. I am not telling them!
They likely have a contractural obligation as part of the deal that was signed. Deals this size either have contractural support or at least a long honeymoon support phase. They have a customer service obligation, otherwise the deployment may stop and the devices could go back to Apple. As someone else mentioned, this looks to be a defect with multiple profiles. Apple needs this out of the news ASAP.
IMO, home schooling or work-group style learning is far superior to the traditional American school model. Intelligent students are only brought down by class clowns and social miscreants and creative students who don't fit into a factory-like "educational" setting have little hope of actually learning.
Home schooling only works when there's a parent who is organized, disciplined, understands the content and has the ability to communicate it. That's a very small minority especially since most parents in this country were not educated any better than today's kids are. The advantage of home schooling is that you can accomplish far more in less time because you're basically teaching 1:1. My granddaughter is home schooled (elementary school) and they tried sending her to a private school last year and the academics even at this expensive school were so bad, they had to pull her out after a month, because she was already at least two years ahead of the other kids. But there's also a disadvantage to home schooling in that learning how to interact with other kids (especially the miscreants) is a very important skill as well as learning how to act in a group environment. Kids also tend to behave better with third parties than they do with their own parents.
But when it comes down to it, young students do not require an iPad or any other electronic device. Aside from book bag weight, there is no advantage to reading a book online as compared to reading a print edition. And the library is free as opposed to having to purchase ebooks. When kids do research, they should be consulting original sources, not Wikipedia. It doesn't take a genius to excerpt material out of Wikipedia, which is what most kids wind up doing these days. And since it's easier for most kids to watch a video than read material, they tend to seek out video material of frequently questionable educational quality. All of this gets in the way of being an educated person. What I have seen with my own grandkids is that when they have access to these devices, they very quickly become an addiction. I see 2 1/2 year olds on the subway with game devices and while their fine motor skills are incredible, they're already absurdly hyperactive.
Where I do agree with you is about the factory like educational system that we still employ. We really haven't changed our approach to teaching in 70 years. We still have a teacher at the front of the room lecturing to students sitting at desks and once the students reach middle- or junior high- there is almost no interdisciplinary study so students never understand how everything they're supposedly learning relates to each other. And while there's a big push to increase the length of the school day, if you have a factory making defective parts, running the factory longer isn't going to help. This is true for higher education as well. The only thing we've changed over 70 years is that we've watered-down the material because we want the kids to "feel good".
Oh! Well, that’s another story entirely. If Apple was contracted for tech work beyond that of standard AppleCare (does business have a separate AppleCare; I forget), then sure thing. But if it was just a bulk purchase… And anyway, shouldn’t the local network admin at least know what he’s working with before pushing it all out?
A proper mdm system would allow them to keep the profiles from being deleted as long as the device is setup to be in "managed" mode, right?
That is correct...an MDM can be setup so it cannot be removed. The one poster who said they couldn't is full of crap. If it was so easily deleted, then what is the point of forcing it in the first place? He obviously hasn't a clue how to use an MDM, and/or has never used one before. Even with Profile Manager you can setup the profile so it cannot be removed.
You should be using both Configurator and an MDM. Even Apple will tell you this. Configurator will supervise the device which opens up other restrictions. Then use your MDM to manage the device without having to plug in to make changes. Your MDM will allow you do make changes on the fly without needed to plug back into a Mac.
You may want to read the MacWorld piece on this topic: http://www.macworld.com/article/2051343/whats-behind-the-ipad-hack-at-los-angeles-high-schools-.html
Apparently, there was no perfect choice in this particular case. The next version of Configurator will likely close this little loophole.
You may want to read the MacWorld piece on this topic: http://www.macworld.com/article/2051343/whats-behind-the-ipad-hack-at-los-angeles-high-schools-.html
Apparently, there was no perfect choice in this particular case. The next version of Configurator will likely close this little loophole.
Which smart kids will learn to exploit again, of course.
The real solution is to have the kids and their parents rent or buy their own equipment. For the demonstrably underprivileged, have them check out in the morning and check back in their iPad at the end of the day.
Frankly, the entire public school system amounts to factory era child care + brainwashing. Kids are better off learning at their own pace on their own and in small work groups... just like in life!