you've identified 0.1% of the iPad target market. the other 99.9% don't want it or don't know what it would do for them... etc...
Yeah it's a niche. Agree. Solid. Done.
I'm an animator, and a lot of my friends are artists too, so me and most of my friends are in that niche. We have Wacoms, Cintiqs and stuff. I can however imagine what it must be like outside my little world. And styluses does not take part in it. So therefore I don't make a fuzz about it, and go buy my expensive Cintiq.
But just to disturb the balance in the niche concept being painted in this thread..
Kids. Preschool. Learning. Writing.
I'm sure they're learning how to type on paper and by finger painting big letters on an iPad. But with a pen, all these kids learn-to-write apps (that are very popular and high grossing) would make more sense. So instead of 0.1% niche we might be looking at a 5-10% niche? I'm not saying Apple should have done it in the first place. But I'm glad somebody finally went ahead and did it, whether pressuring Apple to open up the SDK or finding another clever solution without Apple's cooperation.
But just to disturb the balance in the niche concept being painted in this thread..
Kids. Preschool. Learning. Writing.
I'm sure they're learning how to type on paper and by finger painting big letters on an iPad. But with a pen, all these kids learn-to-write apps (that are very popular and high grossing) would make more sense.
Now, think a bit more about it. Kids that age do not need a fine-tip, Bluetooth-capable pen which costs $80 if they break or lose it. Or worse, drips battery acid into their mouthes if they chew on it.
So, we now see that this niche market for styluses has further subdivisions:
- Professional artists who want very high-resolution, pressure sensitivity, fast response, interchangeable tips, etc
- Hobbyist artists who are willing to forgo some of those advanced features in favour of a lower cost
- School children who require simple to use, safe, rugged, and not a big cost if they lose it
A dumb question (well, two): is there any iPad software out there that allows me to notate/write on an iPad Keynote slide? And, does that show up on the projected screen if connected via HDMI (i.e., not AirPlay)?
This would be great if it had degrees of sensitivity, but sadly, no.
Why can't we get a stylus with a fine point, palm rejection AND multiple levels of sensitivity? As it is, this is only for writing, not drawing and that seems to have limited appeal.
I'm an animator, and a lot of my friends are artists too, so me and most of my friends are in that niche. We have Wacoms, Cintiqs and stuff. I can however imagine what it must be like outside my little world. And styluses does not take part in it. So therefore I don't make a fuzz about it, and go buy my expensive Cintiq.
But just to disturb the balance in the niche concept being painted in this thread..
Kids. Preschool. Learning. Writing.
I'm sure they're learning how to type on paper and by finger painting big letters on an iPad. But with a pen, all these kids learn-to-write apps (that are very popular and high grossing) would make more sense. So instead of 0.1% niche we might be looking at a 5-10% niche? I'm not saying Apple should have done it in the first place. But I'm glad somebody finally went ahead and did it, whether pressuring Apple to open up the SDK or finding another clever solution without Apple's cooperation.
I welcome the fine tip pen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio
Now, think a bit more about it. Kids that age do not need a fine-tip, Bluetooth-capable pen which costs $80 if they break or lose it. Or worse, drips battery acid into their mouthes if they chew on it.
So, we now see that this niche market for styluses has further subdivisions:
- Professional artists who want very high-resolution, pressure sensitivity, fast response, interchangeable tips, etc
- Hobbyist artists who are willing to forgo some of those advanced features in favour of a lower cost
- School children who require simple to use, safe, rugged, and not a big cost if they lose it
Which one does Apple design their stylus for?
I would argue that for most people, 'learning to write' on an iPad is a massive luxury. a 10 cent pencil or crayon and a 2 cent piece of recyclable paper is the right tool for that 5-10%. If you can buy the app, great, but from apple's perspective, adding stylus into the OS doesn't solve this problem better, and will raise the cost of entry to exclude people from using it.
Really, A stylus inserts a machine between you and the computer. And as alluded, 'which machine' should Apple support?
a 3 button stylus (draftsmen love a button on a stylus)
a 3d (air) stylus (why limit it to 2d… I wave a baton in the air… Look at me… I'm Leonard Bernstein!")
a stick stylus [yep… just a dumb stick]
bluetooth enhanced….
a left handed stylus.
a paint brush stylus
now. even simpler… Look at Apple's Design Mantra.
We already have 3 control methods
If you were to have a choice… will you
1) Drop Siri for Stylus controls?
2) Drop finger controls for Stylus?
3) Drop motion controls for Stylus?
Assuming that the cost of adding the aforementioned stylus will increase the complexity and therefore support costs and instability
and limit some other function being added in the future.
This is about saying 'no'. The hard part of design.
Can you live with out touch controls… no. motion controls… not really, voice… that's the holy grail…. stylus… that's just a form of touch…. it's gone.
Does Apple sell Game controllers? the biggest grossing apps are games….
Huger niche. (if that makes sense).
So Why a Stylus… in the OS? really. What job does it solve for over half the current users… Half of the next 100 million users? Serious question.
That's why we write essays, tests et. al. in school with our fingers. Oh, wait a minute, we don't.
I'm going to use it with the stylus to add notes to PDF files for my study so I don't have to print out hundreds of pages each week. Thankfully, app developers are not as ignorant as some people here.
Ignorance is borne of considering yourself and/or immediate cohort as defining the facts of the matter, and ignoring the rest.
The argument is not the app devs (and most of them don't use styluses… so you just call all those developers ignorant?), but apple must support Stylus as part of the UI experience, and build it into OS. There is a huge set of reasons not to, but suffice it to say, your financial situation allows you to ignore those reasons.
Carry on.
btw, unless you're dictating, you're using your fingers…. oh wait… yes you are.
I'd love to see a comparative review of this, and pressure-sensitive alternatives like the [URL=http://adonit.net/jot/touch/]Jot Touch 4[/URL] and [URL=http://intuoscreativestylus.wacom.com/en/]Wacom Intuos Creative Stylus[/URL]. Given that Adonit have a pressure-sensitive stylus I guess the pressure-sensitive tech and the fine-tip tech are incompatible; I wonder if it will continue to be so or if ultimately it's possible to combine the two?
Apple give us a damn stylus! $80 unreal. A pen has a place. Build in true stylus support and let the 3rd party make pens. Apple being stubborn yet again.
Stubborn? Where was "stubborn" when Apple sold the Newton?
There are iOS styluses (styli?) coming from Wacom imminently. Adobe is launching one too. Prior to this, Adonit was one of the few parties in this game. Why the sudden interest from multiple parties? What took so long?
This would be great if it had degrees of sensitivity, but sadly, no.
Why can't we get a stylus with a fine point, palm rejection AND multiple levels of sensitivity? As it is, this is only for writing, not drawing and that seems to have limited appeal.
Wacom is releasing a pressure sensitive stylus for iPad soon. So is Adobe. And Adonit already has one, I believe.
This would be great if it had degrees of sensitivity, but sadly, no.
Why can't we get a stylus with a fine point, palm rejection AND multiple levels of sensitivity? As it is, this is only for writing, not drawing and that seems to have limited appeal.
Wacom is releasing a pressure sensitive stylus for iPad soon. So is Adobe. And Adonit already has one, I believe.
Indeed. But the pressure-sensitive styluses have large nibs. websnap was wondering why we can't have a small nib and pressure sensitive at the same time. I pondered the same thing a few posts ago.
In terms of why the "sudden" glut of more advanced styluses, it would seem that bluetooth 4 is an enabling technology for this and that hasn't been built-in to iOS devices for that long.
Indeed. But the pressure-sensitive styluses have large nibs. websnap was wondering why we can't have a small nib and pressure sensitive at the same time. I pondered the same thing a few posts ago.
In terms of why the "sudden" glut of more advanced styluses, it would seem that bluetooth 4 is an enabling technology for this and that hasn't been built-in to iOS devices for that long.
Indeed, the Wacom Intuos stylus has a large nib. But, the Adonit Jot Touch stylus already has a fine nib. I believe the Adobe offering will feature the same, too.
Interesting point about BT4 being the enabling feature. But exactly how were previous versions of BT inadequate? Is this because of the lower power consumption of BT4?
But, the Adonit Jot Touch stylus already has a fine nib
Not really. The Jot Touch has an intriguing solution, but it isn't a fine nib like the Script. The part of the Jot Touch that actually touches the iPad screen is a fairly large plastic disc, but this is transparent so you can more easily see where the centre of the stylus is going. It's very clever but from viewing a few video reviews on YouTube it does seem to create some problems.
If a stylus is a "terrible solution to an already solved problem", why does the Wacom tablet still exist and why is it considered indispensable to graphic designers, art directors, advanced photoshop/illustrator users, etc.? Calling that market "niche" as if it's irrelevant is like calling Whole Foods irrelevant because it's not Sears.
Perhaps that is the solution he was talking about....
Comments
you've identified 0.1% of the iPad target market. the other 99.9% don't want it or don't know what it would do for them... etc...
Yeah it's a niche. Agree. Solid. Done.
I'm an animator, and a lot of my friends are artists too, so me and most of my friends are in that niche. We have Wacoms, Cintiqs and stuff. I can however imagine what it must be like outside my little world. And styluses does not take part in it. So therefore I don't make a fuzz about it, and go buy my expensive Cintiq.
But just to disturb the balance in the niche concept being painted in this thread..
Kids. Preschool. Learning. Writing.
I'm sure they're learning how to type on paper and by finger painting big letters on an iPad. But with a pen, all these kids learn-to-write apps (that are very popular and high grossing) would make more sense. So instead of 0.1% niche we might be looking at a 5-10% niche? I'm not saying Apple should have done it in the first place. But I'm glad somebody finally went ahead and did it, whether pressuring Apple to open up the SDK or finding another clever solution without Apple's cooperation.
I welcome the fine tip pen!
When they get the iPad drawing lag down to about 10ms, this would be great. Until then, I think it's a waste of money.
At what is the lag now? And isn’t that dependent on the app being used?
But just to disturb the balance in the niche concept being painted in this thread..
Kids. Preschool. Learning. Writing.
I'm sure they're learning how to type on paper and by finger painting big letters on an iPad. But with a pen, all these kids learn-to-write apps (that are very popular and high grossing) would make more sense.
Now, think a bit more about it. Kids that age do not need a fine-tip, Bluetooth-capable pen which costs $80 if they break or lose it. Or worse, drips battery acid into their mouthes if they chew on it.
So, we now see that this niche market for styluses has further subdivisions:
- Professional artists who want very high-resolution, pressure sensitivity, fast response, interchangeable tips, etc
- Hobbyist artists who are willing to forgo some of those advanced features in favour of a lower cost
- School children who require simple to use, safe, rugged, and not a big cost if they lose it
Which one does Apple design their stylus for?
A dumb question (well, two): is there any iPad software out there that allows me to notate/write on an iPad Keynote slide? And, does that show up on the projected screen if connected via HDMI (i.e., not AirPlay)?
This would be great if it had degrees of sensitivity, but sadly, no.
Why can't we get a stylus with a fine point, palm rejection AND multiple levels of sensitivity? As it is, this is only for writing, not drawing and that seems to have limited appeal.
Yeah it's a niche. Agree. Solid. Done.
I'm an animator, and a lot of my friends are artists too, so me and most of my friends are in that niche. We have Wacoms, Cintiqs and stuff. I can however imagine what it must be like outside my little world. And styluses does not take part in it. So therefore I don't make a fuzz about it, and go buy my expensive Cintiq.
But just to disturb the balance in the niche concept being painted in this thread..
Kids. Preschool. Learning. Writing.
I'm sure they're learning how to type on paper and by finger painting big letters on an iPad. But with a pen, all these kids learn-to-write apps (that are very popular and high grossing) would make more sense. So instead of 0.1% niche we might be looking at a 5-10% niche? I'm not saying Apple should have done it in the first place. But I'm glad somebody finally went ahead and did it, whether pressuring Apple to open up the SDK or finding another clever solution without Apple's cooperation.
I welcome the fine tip pen!
Now, think a bit more about it. Kids that age do not need a fine-tip, Bluetooth-capable pen which costs $80 if they break or lose it. Or worse, drips battery acid into their mouthes if they chew on it.
So, we now see that this niche market for styluses has further subdivisions:
- Professional artists who want very high-resolution, pressure sensitivity, fast response, interchangeable tips, etc
- Hobbyist artists who are willing to forgo some of those advanced features in favour of a lower cost
- School children who require simple to use, safe, rugged, and not a big cost if they lose it
Which one does Apple design their stylus for?
I would argue that for most people, 'learning to write' on an iPad is a massive luxury. a 10 cent pencil or crayon and a 2 cent piece of recyclable paper is the right tool for that 5-10%. If you can buy the app, great, but from apple's perspective, adding stylus into the OS doesn't solve this problem better, and will raise the cost of entry to exclude people from using it.
Really, A stylus inserts a machine between you and the computer. And as alluded, 'which machine' should Apple support?
a 3 button stylus (draftsmen love a button on a stylus)
a 3d (air) stylus (why limit it to 2d… I wave a baton in the air… Look at me… I'm Leonard Bernstein!")
a stick stylus [yep… just a dumb stick]
bluetooth enhanced….
a left handed stylus.
a paint brush stylus
now. even simpler… Look at Apple's Design Mantra.
We already have 3 control methods
If you were to have a choice… will you
1) Drop Siri for Stylus controls?
2) Drop finger controls for Stylus?
3) Drop motion controls for Stylus?
Assuming that the cost of adding the aforementioned stylus will increase the complexity and therefore support costs and instability
and limit some other function being added in the future.
This is about saying 'no'. The hard part of design.
Can you live with out touch controls… no. motion controls… not really, voice… that's the holy grail…. stylus… that's just a form of touch…. it's gone.
Does Apple sell Game controllers? the biggest grossing apps are games….
Huger niche. (if that makes sense).
So Why a Stylus… in the OS? really. What job does it solve for over half the current users… Half of the next 100 million users? Serious question.
That's why we write essays, tests et. al. in school with our fingers. Oh, wait a minute, we don't.
I'm going to use it with the stylus to add notes to PDF files for my study so I don't have to print out hundreds of pages each week. Thankfully, app developers are not as ignorant as some people here.
Ignorance is borne of considering yourself and/or immediate cohort as defining the facts of the matter, and ignoring the rest.
The argument is not the app devs (and most of them don't use styluses… so you just call all those developers ignorant?), but apple must support Stylus as part of the UI experience, and build it into OS. There is a huge set of reasons not to, but suffice it to say, your financial situation allows you to ignore those reasons.
Carry on.
btw, unless you're dictating, you're using your fingers…. oh wait… yes you are.
I'd love to see a comparative review of this, and pressure-sensitive alternatives like the [URL=http://adonit.net/jot/touch/]Jot Touch 4[/URL] and [URL=http://intuoscreativestylus.wacom.com/en/]Wacom Intuos Creative Stylus[/URL]. Given that Adonit have a pressure-sensitive stylus I guess the pressure-sensitive tech and the fine-tip tech are incompatible; I wonder if it will continue to be so or if ultimately it's possible to combine the two?
And that's where I stopped reading your post.
Stubborn? Where was "stubborn" when Apple sold the Newton?
There are iOS styluses (styli?) coming from Wacom imminently. Adobe is launching one too. Prior to this, Adonit was one of the few parties in this game. Why the sudden interest from multiple parties? What took so long?
And that's where I stopped reading your post.
You've something against protection?
Stubborn? Where was "stubborn" when Apple sold the Newton?
Somewhere in California, I heard.
This would be great if it had degrees of sensitivity, but sadly, no.
Why can't we get a stylus with a fine point, palm rejection AND multiple levels of sensitivity? As it is, this is only for writing, not drawing and that seems to have limited appeal.
Wacom is releasing a pressure sensitive stylus for iPad soon. So is Adobe. And Adonit already has one, I believe.
Indeed. But the pressure-sensitive styluses have large nibs. websnap was wondering why we can't have a small nib and pressure sensitive at the same time. I pondered the same thing a few posts ago.
In terms of why the "sudden" glut of more advanced styluses, it would seem that bluetooth 4 is an enabling technology for this and that hasn't been built-in to iOS devices for that long.
Indeed. But the pressure-sensitive styluses have large nibs. websnap was wondering why we can't have a small nib and pressure sensitive at the same time. I pondered the same thing a few posts ago.
In terms of why the "sudden" glut of more advanced styluses, it would seem that bluetooth 4 is an enabling technology for this and that hasn't been built-in to iOS devices for that long.
Indeed, the Wacom Intuos stylus has a large nib. But, the Adonit Jot Touch stylus already has a fine nib. I believe the Adobe offering will feature the same, too.
Interesting point about BT4 being the enabling feature. But exactly how were previous versions of BT inadequate? Is this because of the lower power consumption of BT4?
Not really. The Jot Touch has an intriguing solution, but it isn't a fine nib like the Script. The part of the Jot Touch that actually touches the iPad screen is a fairly large plastic disc, but this is transparent so you can more easily see where the centre of the stylus is going. It's very clever but from viewing a few video reviews on YouTube it does seem to create some problems.
Perhaps that is the solution he was talking about....