This is what I want to do once my 5s arrives. I have taken some decent photographs in my time and I want to challenge myself with the limits of the 5s compared to my DSLR. I really think the limit will only be in my ability to set the scenes for the 5s to capture a great exposure.
BTW: if I recall, Engadget (OMG not another pariah!?) among other reviews lauded the 5s camera to be better than the highly acclaimed Nokia 1020... you know, that device with the iPhone Killer 41 megapixel camera? Once again proof that it's not the megapixel count that matters at all; it's the sensor and the lens... and of course, who's behind the shutter release.*
You appear to recall inaccurately:
Quote:
Even so, our sample shots still showed more noise and less detail than the same images taken with the Nokia Lumia 1020. The 5s also does a good job of reproducing color, but it's not the best performer in this category, either. Make no mistake, though: the iPhone has been -- and continues to be -- great as a simple grab-and-go camera. It may not be a best-in-class performer, but the vast majority of iPhone users will still be happy.
You cannot achieve a true HDR photo without shooting 2 or more photos at different exposures. The iPhone does not do this. The 20+ apps use artificial/simulated HDR with a phony contrast range.
"The iPhone does not do this." I'm not so sure about that.
Go to Apple.com and read about the new camera features. If I'm reading it right, the new camera does exactly that for its HDR feature. it automatically takes multiple shots, then selects and combines the best shots, all in the background while you focus on shooting.
Something along those lines is how they're promoting it, anyway.
You're saying "True" HDR photo. Find out what Apple is doing with their camera app, then say it isn't "true" HDR" it's only 'simulated'. OK. But if there's no functional difference in the end result then….?
From the look of their demonstration onsite, they are taking images at different exposures (the others look lighter - over exposed, and darker - underexposed). Not "real" HDR?
EDIT: A follow up to the other part of your supposition. This 'HDR" multi-exposre functionality is something new to the iPhone. I suspect the 20+ apps mentioned will be getting updates to reflect/support the more powerful device that is the 5s. Let's see what comes after Camera+ releases their update...
Yes ... you're probably right. I have no control over those images though. I need those separate images to layer as I see fit, NOT IOS.
Thanks for the correction.
Not so sure about that either!
I don't own the new iPHone (yet), but again, from what I'm reading it may very well be possible to keep and use those extra exposures.
Again, just from what I'm reading/viewing at the Apple site, the app isn't throwing anything away for you until you implicitly tell it to.
If I were you, I'd go through some of the product detail videos, in particular regarding the new camera features. What I'm seeing implies a far more feature-rich environment than you are promoting here.
This is what I want to do once my 5s arrives. I have taken some decent photographs in my time and I want to challenge myself with the limits of the 5s compared to my DSLR. I really think the limit will only be in my ability to set the scenes for the 5s to capture a great exposure.
We'll see just how good I am, or am not
As good as the 5s camera may be, if you can't get noticeably better images from your DSLR then something is seriously amiss. The 5s sensor is less than 1/20 the size, working in a diffraction-limited regime, and the images are processed with very aggressive noise reduction. Downsampled to around 2 MP they might be competitive but above that, not even close.
It's true that you don't have access to the individual images, or to the intermediate 32-bit image but, automated or not, it's still HDR, and the result is likely to be better than most users could achieve by manual manipulation of the compression algorithms.
Do you know for a fact that you have no access to the 'individual images'? Much of the info at the Apple site implies otherwise.
In any case, it's a software thing. If the data is being captured, there's no reason an app can't save those individual 'layers' for later use. Even if it doesn't exist today, it will 'tomorrow'. There's always going to be 'an app for that'.
It's true that you don't have access to the individual images, or to the intermediate 32-bit image but, automated or not, it's still HDR, and the result is likely to be better than most users could achieve by manual manipulation of the compression algorithms.
Do you know for a fact that you have no access to the 'individual images'? Much of the info at the Apple site implies otherwise.
In any case, it's a software thing. If the data is being captured, there's no reason an app can't save those individual 'layers' for later use. Even if it doesn't exist today, it will 'tomorrow'. There's always going to be 'an app for that'.
No I don't, and I may be mistaken, in which case one could upload them and process manually - or even on the phone itself if there are already apps that have that function.
The deficiency the iPhone camera has in the lens & sensor size, are quickly made up with its processing power. DSLR's have a few automatic features which allow amateur photographers to look like pro's when they shoot ... However, results are a different story. DSLR's best capabilities are achieved only when the photographer knows how to take over. This is exactly what distinguishes an iPhone 5/5c/5s from DSLR's.
An iPhone is a computer, DSLR's are not. Unless you know how to operate an DSLR (most people that own them don't), many of your photos are likely to be inferior to the iPhone 5/5c/5s.
Processing power is not a substitute for a larger sensor or better lens. I don't agree with the rest either.
Processing power is not a substitute for a larger sensor or better lens. I don't agree with the rest either.
It's not a substitute, but since the result depends on optical quality, processing, and user skill, it is possible that an unskilled user will get a better result with an inferior optical system coupled with advanced processing.
Do you know for a fact that you have no access to the 'individual images'? Much of the info at the Apple site implies otherwise.
In any case, it's a software thing. If the data is being captured, there's no reason an app can't save those individual 'layers' for later use. Even if it doesn't exist today, it will 'tomorrow'. There's always going to be 'an app for that'.
Here's the issue I see. An iPhone is a hand held camera, and if it did actually shot 3 completely different images, there would be issues with framing. I think it's actually 1 image where 3 different exposures is post processed. I don't believe that 3 separate photo actions are taken which one HDR photo is saved on the camera roll and the other 3 are tossed out.
I really don't like the square format, it's just me probably, but I don't.
I don't like square either. Which is strange, as old school cameras were 8 by 10. Just this morning I was in a museum where there was a Deardorff on display. The camera, and the resulting pictures (from Koos Breukel, a Dutch portrait photographer). Ok, 8 by 10 isn't square, but more square than 2 by 3. Or in the case of the iPhone, 3 by 4
Do you know for a fact that you have no access to the 'individual images'? Much of the info at the Apple site implies otherwise.
In any case, it's a software thing. If the data is being captured, there's no reason an app can't save those individual 'layers' for later use. Even if it doesn't exist today, it will 'tomorrow'. There's always going to be 'an app for that'.
Here's the issue I see. An iPhone is a hand held camera, and if it did actually shot 3 completely different images, there would be issues with framing. I think it's actually 1 image where 3 different exposures is post processed. I don't believe that 3 separate photo actions are taken which one HDR photo is saved on the camera roll and the other 3 are tossed out.
You can't post-process to extract a greater bit depth than the sensor provides. Why do you think it isn't three separate images? That's how most compacts do HDR.
I have taken some decent photographs in my time and I want to challenge myself with the limits of the 5s compared to my DSLR. I really think the limit will only be in my ability to set the scenes for the 5s to capture a great exposure.
I find creating a good composition the most challanging thing on the iPhone, for two reasons:
1) the photo gets cropped on the display; this is because the sensor is 3:2 and the display is 16:9 (used to be 4:3 and then the bottom wasn't fully displayed) Now it doesn't display the full width:
On the old phone you had to zoom out to see the whole photo.
2) I find it very difficult to look at the display in order to compose. This is so much easier looking through a lens. It also increases camera shake, something I never had to deal with when using a (D)SLR.
Still, a freaking fantastic camera. I was on a cycling holiday this summer and didn't take my camera with me, thought I ought to give the iPhone a try. My friends were in awe after seeing the result, even ordered books online. From a camera phone!
As good as the 5s camera may be, if you can't get noticeably better images from your DSLR then something is seriously amiss. The 5s sensor is less than 1/20 the size, working in a diffraction-limited regime, and the images are processed with very aggressive noise reduction. Downsampled to around 2 MP they might be competitive but above that, not even close.
The best any camera can do is take the proper exposure. Everything else is up to the photographer. I won't be asking my 5s to capture exposures at the same quality as my DSLR, but I will be asking myself to take as compelling images with the 5s as I take with the DSLR.
A photo should move you, give you a sense of place and time. You don't get that with camera specs. I have shot many years with a DSLR and before that I even developed my own film. I can very much assure you, a good photo is due more to the photographer being able to capture a moment, then a cameras ability to capture the correct exposure.
Yes, modern DSLRs are great in allowing me to simply find a moment, frame it and push the little button. And yes, the decrease in those capabilities will be the challenge. But to say the DSLR will get better images is a bit misleading. I've seen people with DSLRs take horrible pictures and I've seen photos of many years back that were taken with much less a camera and they look better.
I find creating a good composition the most challanging thing on the iPhone, for two reasons:
1) the photo gets cropped on the display; this is because the sensor is 3:2 and the display is 16:9 (used to be 4:3 and then the bottom wasn't fully displayed) Now it doesn't display the full width:
On the old phone you had to zoom out to see the whole photo.
2) I find it very difficult to look at the display in order to compose. This is so much easier looking through a lens. It also increases camera shake, something I never had to deal with when using a (D)SLR.
Still, a freaking fantastic camera. I was on a cycling holiday this summer and didn't take my camera with me, thought I ought to give the iPhone a try. My friends were in awe after seeing the result, even ordered books online. From a camera phone!
Exactly and those are the challenges I want to put myself through. Anyone can take good pictures with a great camera set on auto, but it takes a good photographer to take great pictures with less. I'm hoping I'm that photographer.
As good as the 5s camera may be, if you can't get noticeably better images from your DSLR then something is seriously amiss. The 5s sensor is less than 1/20 the size, working in a diffraction-limited regime, and the images are processed with very aggressive noise reduction. Downsampled to around 2 MP they might be competitive but above that, not even close.
The best any camera can do is take the proper exposure. Everything else is up to the photographer. I won't be asking my 5s to capture exposures at the same quality as my DSLR, but I will be asking myself to take as compelling images with the 5s as I take with the DSLR.
A photo should move you, give you a sense of place and time. You don't get that with camera specs. I have shot many years with a DSLR and before that I even developed my own film. I can very much assure you, a good photo is due more to the photographer being able to capture a moment, then a cameras ability to capture the correct exposure.
Yes, modern DSLRs are great in allowing me to simply find a moment, frame it and push the little button. And yes, the decrease in those capabilities will be the challenge. But to say the DSLR will get better images is a bit misleading. I've seen people with DSLRs take horrible pictures and I've seen photos of many years back that were taken with much less a camera and they look better.
Agreed. My point was just that all other things being equal, a competent photographer (and I'm sure that you are one) can get substantially better image quality with a DSLR. I obviously misunderstood your exact goal when I made that comment.
The FUD and incorrect facts about the iPhone camera system is particularly strong with the Fandroids in this thread. Boy are they threatened by the iPhone 5s camera or what?
The FUD and incorrect facts about the iPhone camera system is particularly strong with the Fandroids in this thread. Boy are they threatened by the iPhone 5s camera or what?
They are threatened by any feature on the iPhone that they cannot claim to be better on Android. This thread seems quite mild in that respect though.
Comments
Apple PLEASE get me my 5s as soon as you can
This is what I want to do once my 5s arrives. I have taken some decent photographs in my time and I want to challenge myself with the limits of the 5s compared to my DSLR. I really think the limit will only be in my ability to set the scenes for the 5s to capture a great exposure.
We'll see just how good I am, or am not
BTW: if I recall, Engadget (OMG not another pariah!?) among other reviews lauded the 5s camera to be better than the highly acclaimed Nokia 1020... you know, that device with the iPhone Killer 41 megapixel camera? Once again proof that it's not the megapixel count that matters at all; it's the sensor and the lens... and of course, who's behind the shutter release.*
You appear to recall inaccurately:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/17/iphone-5s-review/
Do you have link to his iPhone photos? I know his works but am not sure which ones are shot by iPhone.
->> http://kevinruss.tumblr.comYou cannot achieve a true HDR photo without shooting 2 or more photos at different exposures. The iPhone does not do this. The 20+ apps use artificial/simulated HDR with a phony contrast range.
"The iPhone does not do this." I'm not so sure about that.
Go to Apple.com and read about the new camera features. If I'm reading it right, the new camera does exactly that for its HDR feature. it automatically takes multiple shots, then selects and combines the best shots, all in the background while you focus on shooting.
Something along those lines is how they're promoting it, anyway.
You're saying "True" HDR photo. Find out what Apple is doing with their camera app, then say it isn't "true" HDR" it's only 'simulated'. OK. But if there's no functional difference in the end result then….?
From the look of their demonstration onsite, they are taking images at different exposures (the others look lighter - over exposed, and darker - underexposed). Not "real" HDR?
EDIT: A follow up to the other part of your supposition. This 'HDR" multi-exposre functionality is something new to the iPhone. I suspect the 20+ apps mentioned will be getting updates to reflect/support the more powerful device that is the 5s. Let's see what comes after Camera+ releases their update...
Yes ... you're probably right. I have no control over those images though. I need those separate images to layer as I see fit, NOT IOS.
Thanks for the correction.
Not so sure about that either!
I don't own the new iPHone (yet), but again, from what I'm reading it may very well be possible to keep and use those extra exposures.
Again, just from what I'm reading/viewing at the Apple site, the app isn't throwing anything away for you until you implicitly tell it to.
If I were you, I'd go through some of the product detail videos, in particular regarding the new camera features. What I'm seeing implies a far more feature-rich environment than you are promoting here.
As good as the 5s camera may be, if you can't get noticeably better images from your DSLR then something is seriously amiss. The 5s sensor is less than 1/20 the size, working in a diffraction-limited regime, and the images are processed with very aggressive noise reduction. Downsampled to around 2 MP they might be competitive but above that, not even close.
It's true that you don't have access to the individual images, or to the intermediate 32-bit image but, automated or not, it's still HDR, and the result is likely to be better than most users could achieve by manual manipulation of the compression algorithms.
Do you know for a fact that you have no access to the 'individual images'? Much of the info at the Apple site implies otherwise.
In any case, it's a software thing. If the data is being captured, there's no reason an app can't save those individual 'layers' for later use. Even if it doesn't exist today, it will 'tomorrow'. There's always going to be 'an app for that'.
No I don't, and I may be mistaken, in which case one could upload them and process manually - or even on the phone itself if there are already apps that have that function.
The deficiency the iPhone camera has in the lens & sensor size, are quickly made up with its processing power. DSLR's have a few automatic features which allow amateur photographers to look like pro's when they shoot ... However, results are a different story. DSLR's best capabilities are achieved only when the photographer knows how to take over. This is exactly what distinguishes an iPhone 5/5c/5s from DSLR's.
An iPhone is a computer, DSLR's are not. Unless you know how to operate an DSLR (most people that own them don't), many of your photos are likely to be inferior to the iPhone 5/5c/5s.
Processing power is not a substitute for a larger sensor or better lens. I don't agree with the rest either.
It's not a substitute, but since the result depends on optical quality, processing, and user skill, it is possible that an unskilled user will get a better result with an inferior optical system coupled with advanced processing.
Do you know for a fact that you have no access to the 'individual images'? Much of the info at the Apple site implies otherwise.
In any case, it's a software thing. If the data is being captured, there's no reason an app can't save those individual 'layers' for later use. Even if it doesn't exist today, it will 'tomorrow'. There's always going to be 'an app for that'.
Here's the issue I see. An iPhone is a hand held camera, and if it did actually shot 3 completely different images, there would be issues with framing. I think it's actually 1 image where 3 different exposures is post processed. I don't believe that 3 separate photo actions are taken which one HDR photo is saved on the camera roll and the other 3 are tossed out.
I don't like square either. Which is strange, as old school cameras were 8 by 10. Just this morning I was in a museum where there was a Deardorff on display. The camera, and the resulting pictures (from Koos Breukel, a Dutch portrait photographer). Ok, 8 by 10 isn't square, but more square than 2 by 3. Or in the case of the iPhone, 3 by 4
I was told one could filter by camera model, lens type, aperture and all that...can't find it so here's a video...with iPhone photos:
You can't post-process to extract a greater bit depth than the sensor provides. Why do you think it isn't three separate images? That's how most compacts do HDR.
I find creating a good composition the most challanging thing on the iPhone, for two reasons:
1) the photo gets cropped on the display; this is because the sensor is 3:2 and the display is 16:9 (used to be 4:3 and then the bottom wasn't fully displayed) Now it doesn't display the full width:
On the old phone you had to zoom out to see the whole photo.
2) I find it very difficult to look at the display in order to compose. This is so much easier looking through a lens. It also increases camera shake, something I never had to deal with when using a (D)SLR.
Still, a freaking fantastic camera. I was on a cycling holiday this summer and didn't take my camera with me, thought I ought to give the iPhone a try. My friends were in awe after seeing the result, even ordered books online. From a camera phone!
As good as the 5s camera may be, if you can't get noticeably better images from your DSLR then something is seriously amiss. The 5s sensor is less than 1/20 the size, working in a diffraction-limited regime, and the images are processed with very aggressive noise reduction. Downsampled to around 2 MP they might be competitive but above that, not even close.
The best any camera can do is take the proper exposure. Everything else is up to the photographer. I won't be asking my 5s to capture exposures at the same quality as my DSLR, but I will be asking myself to take as compelling images with the 5s as I take with the DSLR.
A photo should move you, give you a sense of place and time. You don't get that with camera specs. I have shot many years with a DSLR and before that I even developed my own film. I can very much assure you, a good photo is due more to the photographer being able to capture a moment, then a cameras ability to capture the correct exposure.
Yes, modern DSLRs are great in allowing me to simply find a moment, frame it and push the little button. And yes, the decrease in those capabilities will be the challenge. But to say the DSLR will get better images is a bit misleading. I've seen people with DSLRs take horrible pictures and I've seen photos of many years back that were taken with much less a camera and they look better.
I find creating a good composition the most challanging thing on the iPhone, for two reasons:
1) the photo gets cropped on the display; this is because the sensor is 3:2 and the display is 16:9 (used to be 4:3 and then the bottom wasn't fully displayed) Now it doesn't display the full width:
On the old phone you had to zoom out to see the whole photo.
2) I find it very difficult to look at the display in order to compose. This is so much easier looking through a lens. It also increases camera shake, something I never had to deal with when using a (D)SLR.
Still, a freaking fantastic camera. I was on a cycling holiday this summer and didn't take my camera with me, thought I ought to give the iPhone a try. My friends were in awe after seeing the result, even ordered books online. From a camera phone!
Exactly and those are the challenges I want to put myself through. Anyone can take good pictures with a great camera set on auto, but it takes a good photographer to take great pictures with less. I'm hoping I'm that photographer.
Agreed. My point was just that all other things being equal, a competent photographer (and I'm sure that you are one) can get substantially better image quality with a DSLR. I obviously misunderstood your exact goal when I made that comment.
They are threatened by any feature on the iPhone that they cannot claim to be better on Android. This thread seems quite mild in that respect though.