In my experience, Apple did a poor copy. They managed to miss Pandora's strength which is hardly secret: their song selection algorithms. iTunes Radio, seems to figure out what artists I'm interested in, then promptly plays all their songs which I don't like, skipping over the ones I like, which are often their most popular.
Do you prefer to listen primarily to singles?
I have been very impressed with iTunes Radio in that it doesn't flood my ears with played out singles. Personally, I listen to complete albums and very nearly ignore singles entirely; for some of my albums, I couldn't even tell you which tracks were singles.
In my experience, Apple did a poor copy. They managed to miss Pandora's strength which is hardly secret: their song selection algorithms. iTunes Radio, seems to figure out what artists I'm interested in, then promptly plays all their songs which I don't like, skipping over the ones I like, which are often their most popular.
Using the built in training feature (not just skipping) I have found the music selections to be very good.
No, I listen to quite a bit of ambient music. iTunes Radio tends to play maybe 4-6 tracks that fall into that category, and then will make an abrupt switch to another music category, like pop. A bit odd, considering that iTunes has a huge ambient music selection. It also tends to repeat ambient tracks that I already own...perhaps 50% or more of what is played. Pandora is currently much better at continuing to play music that matches the initial artist the user selects in my experience.
Apple's pretty stupid if they can't match Pandora's services. All Apple has to do is copy Pandora's format and offer it for less money. It's unfortunate that iTunes Radio can only be run on late model Macs because that's a killer right there. In many ways, Apple is only making it tough for itself to be THE premium subscription service. Of course, I realize Apple has to protect it's iTunes Music purchases and iTunes Radio makes that really easy. So it some ways, iTR can never become as multiple platform-friendly as Pandora. It's fine that Pandora can continue to thrive as long as Apple is also able to make money. I'll bet Microsoft would have gone after Pandora and put it out of business.
I don't think apple is trying to copy the pandora model at all. ITunes Radio simply exists as a means to get users to buy more music, which is how apple expects to earn, rather than through ads or subscription.
That's why they shouldn't copy their competitors, because their business model is entirely different.
iRadio replaced my Sirius radio in my car, and avoided their subscription charges. I was happy to discover that iRadio worked well with my car's iPod attachment, I'm able to skip songs etc. and see song names on my in dash system.
How much data is that costing you, if you're still on an unlimited plan not much of an issue I guess. I know Pandora have two different streaming rates, 64kbps and 192kbps and if you on the lower rate then 2 hours per day will crew up 2GB in a months and on the higher rate you going to be a lot more so iradio and Pandore do not come cheap, so it is worth not have the standard radio commercials and pay for all the bandwidth data. I have not seen if iradio is offering different bandwidth services.
How much data is that costing you, if you're still on an unlimited plan not much of an issue I guess. I know Pandora have two different streaming rates, 64kbps and 192kbps and if you on the lower rate then 2 hours per day will crew up 2GB in a months and on the higher rate you going to be a lot more so iradio and Pandore do not come cheap, so it is worth not have the standard radio commercials and pay for all the bandwidth data. I have not seen if iradio is offering different bandwidth services.
That's a good point, luckily I'm still grandfathered on AT&T's Unlimited plan.
I don't think apple is trying to copy the pandora model at all. ITunes Radio simply exists as a means to get users to buy more music, which is how apple expects to earn, rather than through ads or subscription.
That's why they shouldn't copy their competitors, because their business model is entirely different.
It's true that iRadio gives you the ability to buy songs and albums. But iRadio does have commercials, one every 3 songs or so, and it only allows you to skip 6 songs in an hour.
Flo singing Progressive Insurance songs were the only ones I heard so far.
I don't miss Pandora at all and prefer the recommendations I have gotten from iRadio.
It could just be my musical choices (70's rock, classical music, guitar and piano soloists), but iRadio doesn't wander too far from my selections, as Pandora did, annoyingly. Yet iRadio has provided enough variation to keep from feeling repetitious. In fact I have already bought more songs thanks to iRadio than I did in my years with Pandora.
iTunes Radio is not very good. It repeats the same songs, in the same order, as it played the previous hour. It also stops and asks if you are still listening and want to continue (through AppleTV). If it continues to repeat the same songs in such a short period of time, you might as well go back to FM radio. I will use Pandora from now on because of the excessive repeating of songs.
I have zero confidence in Pandora's stated outlook.
They have lost ~1.8M active users in the last ~49 days, that's an average of 1,500 listeners an hour.
Acting bullish because listening hours have increased after removing the cap on free accounts does not imbue confidence. What it highlights is that they have a problem converting heavy users into paying users.
Makes senses... we will know in Q1 2014 at earnings.
In my experience, Apple did a poor copy. They managed to miss Pandora's strength which is hardly secret: their song selection algorithms. iTunes Radio, seems to figure out what artists I'm interested in, then promptly plays all their songs which I don't like, skipping over the ones I like, which are often their most popular.
I tried Pandora in its early days - and could never - even with extensive training - get its fabled algorithm to zero in on the music I was after - just bunches of stuff from entirely different eras by artists I'd never heard of and wasn't impressed by.
So at the time I preferred Apple's many existing radio streams from around the world. And Youtube, (even with its super-primitive playlist builder/editors) 'cos I like the visual component - and it's a good date or small group activity..... ...also, automatically tweeting my YouTube plays has made my Twitter account more interesting in terms of generating direct interactions (and spreading my musical tastes). Plus some comment exchanges with some of the (relatively few) non-insane YouTube commenters.
And then Spotify came along and I could not only listen to my existing iTunes playlists from my iTunes library, but also listen to whole albums (or mixes of) favorite artists from their catalog - and start a "radio station" from any tune I was playing - which did seem to bring along other fairly-related (to me) music, resulting in new artist discovery, where I could then navigate to the whole catalog of that artist.
I also use the feature that lets me follow what my fb friends are listening to - the "Ping" part that didn't work for Apple. So no reasons to go back and see what Pandora's been up to since and haven't bothered with the new Apple service yet (if it works on my old desktop in the first place), i.e., I'm good for now.
It's a new feature, the algorithms will improve as people use the service.
But that's another example of poor service execution on Apple's part. Ideally, you'd make it good, people who install iOS 7 try the new hyped feature, are wowed and Pandora goes bankrupt. Now the situation is that people tried it, thought it wasn't very good, went back to Pandora, and you have to wait until they diffuse back to iTunes Radio once the algorithms improve.
But that's another example of poor service execution on Apple's part. Ideally, you'd make it good, people who install iOS 7 try the new hyped feature, are wowed and Pandora goes bankrupt. Now the situation is that people tried it, thought it wasn't very good, went back to Pandora, and you have to wait until they diffuse back to iTunes Radio once the algorithms improve.
you are wrong as can be. Apple has provided an awesome radio service to iTunes users. iRadio is better than pandora.
Way better sound quality, excellent selection, awesome "create' function...
Do you think that pandora had a system 1/100th as good as a system when they started? answer is ---- NOOOOOOoooo
And after all this time their sound still sucks ass, and their playlists go off on WHACK tangents.
They will bleed off subscribers as iRadio grows. They will still be around, but they are feeling the pinch already and its only gonna get worse for them. If they could offer a service as nice as iRadio has done right from the start they might stand a better chance on this platform.
Comments
It's a new feature, the algorithms will improve as people use the service.
They've got quite a bit of work to do. My own impression from comparing the two is that Apple isn't really trying to compete with Pandora.
In my experience, Apple did a poor copy. They managed to miss Pandora's strength which is hardly secret: their song selection algorithms. iTunes Radio, seems to figure out what artists I'm interested in, then promptly plays all their songs which I don't like, skipping over the ones I like, which are often their most popular.
Do you prefer to listen primarily to singles?
I have been very impressed with iTunes Radio in that it doesn't flood my ears with played out singles. Personally, I listen to complete albums and very nearly ignore singles entirely; for some of my albums, I couldn't even tell you which tracks were singles.
Do you prefer to listen primarily to singles?
No, I listen to quite a bit of ambient music. iTunes Radio tends to play maybe 4-6 tracks that fall into that category, and then will make an abrupt switch to another music category, like pop. A bit odd, considering that iTunes has a huge ambient music selection. It also tends to repeat ambient tracks that I already own...perhaps 50% or more of what is played. Pandora is currently much better at continuing to play music that matches the initial artist the user selects in my experience.
I don't think apple is trying to copy the pandora model at all. ITunes Radio simply exists as a means to get users to buy more music, which is how apple expects to earn, rather than through ads or subscription.
That's why they shouldn't copy their competitors, because their business model is entirely different.
iRadio replaced my Sirius radio in my car, and avoided their subscription charges. I was happy to discover that iRadio worked well with my car's iPod attachment, I'm able to skip songs etc. and see song names on my in dash system.
How much data is that costing you, if you're still on an unlimited plan not much of an issue I guess. I know Pandora have two different streaming rates, 64kbps and 192kbps and if you on the lower rate then 2 hours per day will crew up 2GB in a months and on the higher rate you going to be a lot more so iradio and Pandore do not come cheap, so it is worth not have the standard radio commercials and pay for all the bandwidth data. I have not seen if iradio is offering different bandwidth services.
How much data is that costing you, if you're still on an unlimited plan not much of an issue I guess. I know Pandora have two different streaming rates, 64kbps and 192kbps and if you on the lower rate then 2 hours per day will crew up 2GB in a months and on the higher rate you going to be a lot more so iradio and Pandore do not come cheap, so it is worth not have the standard radio commercials and pay for all the bandwidth data. I have not seen if iradio is offering different bandwidth services.
That's a good point, luckily I'm still grandfathered on AT&T's Unlimited plan.
I don't think apple is trying to copy the pandora model at all. ITunes Radio simply exists as a means to get users to buy more music, which is how apple expects to earn, rather than through ads or subscription.
That's why they shouldn't copy their competitors, because their business model is entirely different.
It's true that iRadio gives you the ability to buy songs and albums. But iRadio does have commercials, one every 3 songs or so, and it only allows you to skip 6 songs in an hour.
Flo singing Progressive Insurance songs were the only ones I heard so far.
I don't miss Pandora at all and prefer the recommendations I have gotten from iRadio.
It could just be my musical choices (70's rock, classical music, guitar and piano soloists), but iRadio doesn't wander too far from my selections, as Pandora did, annoyingly. Yet iRadio has provided enough variation to keep from feeling repetitious. In fact I have already bought more songs thanks to iRadio than I did in my years with Pandora.
N=1.
iTunes Radio is not very good. It repeats the same songs, in the same order, as it played the previous hour. It also stops and asks if you are still listening and want to continue (through AppleTV). If it continues to repeat the same songs in such a short period of time, you might as well go back to FM radio. I will use Pandora from now on because of the excessive repeating of songs.
I have zero confidence in Pandora's stated outlook.
They have lost ~1.8M active users in the last ~49 days, that's an average of 1,500 listeners an hour.
Acting bullish because listening hours have increased after removing the cap on free accounts does not imbue confidence. What it highlights is that they have a problem converting heavy users into paying users.
Makes senses... we will know in Q1 2014 at earnings.
FWIW, my 13yr old daughter is the biggest music listener in our household and she prefers Pandora.
In my experience, Apple did a poor copy. They managed to miss Pandora's strength which is hardly secret: their song selection algorithms. iTunes Radio, seems to figure out what artists I'm interested in, then promptly plays all their songs which I don't like, skipping over the ones I like, which are often their most popular.
I tried Pandora in its early days - and could never - even with extensive training - get its fabled algorithm to zero in on the music I was after - just bunches of stuff from entirely different eras by artists I'd never heard of and wasn't impressed by.
So at the time I preferred Apple's many existing radio streams from around the world. And Youtube, (even with its super-primitive playlist builder/editors) 'cos I like the visual component - and it's a good date or small group activity..... ...also, automatically tweeting my YouTube plays has made my Twitter account more interesting in terms of generating direct interactions (and spreading my musical tastes). Plus some comment exchanges with some of the (relatively few) non-insane YouTube commenters.
And then Spotify came along and I could not only listen to my existing iTunes playlists from my iTunes library, but also listen to whole albums (or mixes of) favorite artists from their catalog - and start a "radio station" from any tune I was playing - which did seem to bring along other fairly-related (to me) music, resulting in new artist discovery, where I could then navigate to the whole catalog of that artist.
I also use the feature that lets me follow what my fb friends are listening to - the "Ping" part that didn't work for Apple. So no reasons to go back and see what Pandora's been up to since and haven't bothered with the new Apple service yet (if it works on my old desktop in the first place), i.e., I'm good for now.
It's a new feature, the algorithms will improve as people use the service.
But that's another example of poor service execution on Apple's part. Ideally, you'd make it good, people who install iOS 7 try the new hyped feature, are wowed and Pandora goes bankrupt. Now the situation is that people tried it, thought it wasn't very good, went back to Pandora, and you have to wait until they diffuse back to iTunes Radio once the algorithms improve.
But that's another example of poor service execution on Apple's part. Ideally, you'd make it good, people who install iOS 7 try the new hyped feature, are wowed and Pandora goes bankrupt. Now the situation is that people tried it, thought it wasn't very good, went back to Pandora, and you have to wait until they diffuse back to iTunes Radio once the algorithms improve.
you are wrong as can be. Apple has provided an awesome radio service to iTunes users. iRadio is better than pandora.
Way better sound quality, excellent selection, awesome "create' function...
Do you think that pandora had a system 1/100th as good as a system when they started? answer is ---- NOOOOOOoooo
And after all this time their sound still sucks ass, and their playlists go off on WHACK tangents.
They will bleed off subscribers as iRadio grows. They will still be around, but they are feeling the pinch already and its only gonna get worse for them. If they could offer a service as nice as iRadio has done right from the start they might stand a better chance on this platform.
BlackBerry said the same thing about the iPhone.
BlockBuster said the same...
I think that its too soon in the "game" to determine if apples new radio is going to have an impact on Pandora's share of the market...