It sickens me that corporations work this way. Although I doubt that the workers would be able to work at all if they were left without food for months as the article preview said. However it seems that all Chinese electronics big players are pure evil and should be dealt with harshly. The Chinese government won't do anything more than a slap on the wrist as punishment. If the electronic giants paid workers with rights to make these electronics, they might cost a couple of hundred dollars more and people wouldn't upgrade as often, but it would be worth it because it's fair. That's a totally foreign concept to the pieces of trash that run these companies. They deserve poverty instead of riches.
What has the MacPro production facility in Austin, TX to do with indentured servitude? Is AI trying to suggest that similar practices will occur there, given the Flextronics ownership?
Would you want to know if an 'accused' thief (fill in the crime) was living next to you? Would you want to do business dealings with them?
That said, this indentured worker explotation is a known issue, even here in the states. Kudo's to Apple to try to keep it under control.
I'm glad you phrased the question that way, boeyc15. Because the answer is no. I do not persecute people who are merely accused, and not yet found guilty, of crimes. Similarly, I believe that after restitution is made, be it a fine or a jail sentence, that punishment should cease and rights should be restored. I'm a patriot (of the USA).
Flextronics is located in Singapore, you're correct. But most of these serious labor abuse stories are from Foxconn and other Chinese companies. I made a mistake implying they were from China. I would say asian electronics manufacturers, but that would include Japanese and South Korean companies as well as others who seem to have a non abusive track record.
Robots. In American factories. Apple should design them. Apple should program them. When they work really well, Apple can sell them to us as another amazing product. Robots keep secrets. Robots don't go on strike. No one cares if a robot is damaged in an industrial accident. The Mac Pro factory in Texas was the prototype but hopefully soon every Apple product will be made by automated factories.
And robots don't buy any company's products. If you take away the jobs of everyone, then they'll be no one to buy the products made in these automated factories (except for the executives, of course).
How about we replace you with a robot?
When Apple used to have factories in the U.S., they managed them themselves. And I believe that was also true at the factory in Ireland. Instead of Flextronics running the U.S. factory for the MacPro, Apple should have run it themselves making a bleeding-edge model out of it to show how it can be done and still treat workers decently.
They can't bring all the work here because Americans won't work for $ 2.00 per hour with no benefits, unsafe working conditions, required living in company housing, and unable to leave for another job, no vacations, etc. Plus Americans tend to have organizations called Labor Unions that have plenty of political power from bribing government officials.
They can either accept a lower margin or increase the price of the products to their true market value. And most of the workers don't even get $2 an hour.
As for Labor Unions, in 2012, only 6.6% of private sector workers were in a union. (35.9% of public sector workers were in a union). The numbers are probably lower now because union membership has been consistently declining year after year. So let's not go blaming labor unions for all the perceived problems in U.S. industry because the reality is that they're not really in U.S. industry anymore. In 2012, only 14.4 million U.S. workers belonged to a union (including public sector workers).
Bloomberg has chosen to push a second day of this story to the world. As with yesterday story, Apple's supply chain is the problem even though other big technology companies have Flextronics in their supply chains.
I have to give Gizmodo credit for actually reporting other companies use Flextronics and the problem goes beyond Apple.
That said, this indentured worker explotation is a known issue, even here in the states.
Spot on. We get so damn holier-than-thou and teary-eyed about stories like this, and yet what about the fancy restaurant meals we consume, meats and vegetables we cook, houses we live in (construction), and our yards and gardens (landscaping), to mention just a few.
The business model -- ability to churn out a profit by keeping costs low -- in these industries in the US would collapse if it weren't for illegal aliens, many of whom are economically exploited.
Will people feel equally outraged and embarrassed the next time they dine on steak, chomp on fruits, walk into homes, and sit in patios enjoying their gardens?
Why doesn't BusinessWeek do a story about that, instead of constantly picking on the consumer electronics industry, and its supposed poster child, Apple?
The hypocrisy is stunning.
Actually, as so often is the case with your posts, you miss the point entirely. For one thing, it is NOT a case of hypocrisy at all. One can equally well, or better, see it as the cost that the US society in general, is exacting on the third world in order to maintain the illusion of prosperity and well-being.
You are quite right that the problem is widespread and certainly isn't an exclusive failing of Apple alone.
But there is another aspect.
The Apple products are luxury goods, not in any way contributing to the essentials of feeding, sanitation, housing, health-care and education. ... The things that are essential to stay alive and raise healthy children.
In addition, Apple and many of their most vocal supporters keep pointing out the insane profit margins and enormous pile of cash rotting in some banks outside of the USA. So while Apple isn't the ONLY, it may well be the WORST offender in the exploitation game.
When one praises Cook for his supply-chain genius, you do need to think of the cost to the third world that he knowingly accepts to achieve the results that Apple produces.
And let's face it. A couple of billion out of Apple's Stash of Cash would go a long way to eliminate the exploitation of the poor on which Apples riches are largely based. This is a problem that Apple can make a much more significant contribution to solve. But there is no interest in doing so. The consumer technology industries are not about ethics but simply primitive, naked capitalism with all of the dark-side aspects that this involves.
So I don't feel sorry in the least for the bad light that the BusinessWeek Article shines on one of the most high profile companies in the world. Apple deserves the shit storm. The fact that other companies also deserve it, is beside the point.
Indentured slavery is still a common and accepted pratice in 3rd world countries and the big companies like Apple and Microsoft and the others don't care about it unless someone finds out about it. It probably happens here in the U.S. as well, but no one is willing to talk.
They talk about giving money back, but those people still have no passports and are still stuck in a country with no papers and no way home.
I bet a lot of auto parts are produced under the same conditions.
Indeed it happens in the USA. There was a set of blog posts written by someone who worked in the 3PL (third party logistics - subcontractors) warehouses that shipped for Amazon. Ever wonder why a price on Amazon is "too good to be true"? And of course they are contractors to Amazon so guess who can wash their hands clean in the unlikely event there is ever a crackdown or a whistleblower?
Lets fix the problem here before we throw stones. It is true that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere, but we can certainly apply more pressure on our home soil, and vote with our dollars.
PS: Can anyone tell me which smartphone at the moment is not produced by Flextronics? I will most certainly look for a fair produced phone if it was out there. Am even willing to pay $200 extra for it.
Flextronics is located in Singapore, you're correct. But most of these serious labor abuse stories are from Foxconn and other Chinese companies. I made a mistake implying they were from China. I would say asian electronics manufacturers, but that would include Japanese and South Korean companies as well as others who seem to have a non abusive track record.
Maybe you should try to hit the link ProApple posted another time and look for a single Singapore's habitant in Flextronics' leadership team. Guess what, you will not find one. Flextronics is an American company from origin which has found a way to get under the radars by getting their legal seat in Singapore. Not only about every single member of Flextronics' leadership team is an American, I bet they are located in the States for at least 90% of their time. So stop acting like Americans and American companies won't do things like this.
Comments
It sickens me that corporations work this way. Although I doubt that the workers would be able to work at all if they were left without food for months as the article preview said. However it seems that all Chinese electronics big players are pure evil and should be dealt with harshly. The Chinese government won't do anything more than a slap on the wrist as punishment. If the electronic giants paid workers with rights to make these electronics, they might cost a couple of hundred dollars more and people wouldn't upgrade as often, but it would be worth it because it's fair. That's a totally foreign concept to the pieces of trash that run these companies. They deserve poverty instead of riches.
Woah! Hold it. This has nothing to do with Chinese governments. Heck, this article is talking about Flextronics, which is not a Chinese company. Look at their leadership team: http://www.flextronics.com/about_us/Pages/Leadership_Team.aspx
What has the MacPro production facility in Austin, TX to do with indentured servitude? Is AI trying to suggest that similar practices will occur there, given the Flextronics ownership?
Would you want to know if an 'accused' thief (fill in the crime) was living next to you? Would you want to do business dealings with them?
That said, this indentured worker explotation is a known issue, even here in the states. Kudo's to Apple to try to keep it under control.I'm glad you phrased the question that way, boeyc15. Because the answer is no. I do not persecute people who are merely accused, and not yet found guilty, of crimes. Similarly, I believe that after restitution is made, be it a fine or a jail sentence, that punishment should cease and rights should be restored. I'm a patriot (of the USA).
Flextronics is located in Singapore, you're correct. But most of these serious labor abuse stories are from Foxconn and other Chinese companies. I made a mistake implying they were from China. I would say asian electronics manufacturers, but that would include Japanese and South Korean companies as well as others who seem to have a non abusive track record.
Robots. In American factories. Apple should design them. Apple should program them. When they work really well, Apple can sell them to us as another amazing product. Robots keep secrets. Robots don't go on strike. No one cares if a robot is damaged in an industrial accident. The Mac Pro factory in Texas was the prototype but hopefully soon every Apple product will be made by automated factories.
And robots don't buy any company's products. If you take away the jobs of everyone, then they'll be no one to buy the products made in these automated factories (except for the executives, of course).
How about we replace you with a robot?
When Apple used to have factories in the U.S., they managed them themselves. And I believe that was also true at the factory in Ireland. Instead of Flextronics running the U.S. factory for the MacPro, Apple should have run it themselves making a bleeding-edge model out of it to show how it can be done and still treat workers decently.
They can't bring all the work here because Americans won't work for $ 2.00 per hour with no benefits, unsafe working conditions, required living in company housing, and unable to leave for another job, no vacations, etc. Plus Americans tend to have organizations called Labor Unions that have plenty of political power from bribing government officials.
They can either accept a lower margin or increase the price of the products to their true market value. And most of the workers don't even get $2 an hour.
As for Labor Unions, in 2012, only 6.6% of private sector workers were in a union. (35.9% of public sector workers were in a union). The numbers are probably lower now because union membership has been consistently declining year after year. So let's not go blaming labor unions for all the perceived problems in U.S. industry because the reality is that they're not really in U.S. industry anymore. In 2012, only 14.4 million U.S. workers belonged to a union (including public sector workers).
I have to give Gizmodo credit for actually reporting other companies use Flextronics and the problem goes beyond Apple.
That said, this indentured worker explotation is a known issue, even here in the states.
Spot on. We get so damn holier-than-thou and teary-eyed about stories like this, and yet what about the fancy restaurant meals we consume, meats and vegetables we cook, houses we live in (construction), and our yards and gardens (landscaping), to mention just a few.
The business model -- ability to churn out a profit by keeping costs low -- in these industries in the US would collapse if it weren't for illegal aliens, many of whom are economically exploited.
Will people feel equally outraged and embarrassed the next time they dine on steak, chomp on fruits, walk into homes, and sit in patios enjoying their gardens?
Why doesn't BusinessWeek do a story about that, instead of constantly picking on the consumer electronics industry, and its supposed poster child, Apple?
The hypocrisy is stunning.
Actually, as so often is the case with your posts, you miss the point entirely. For one thing, it is NOT a case of hypocrisy at all. One can equally well, or better, see it as the cost that the US society in general, is exacting on the third world in order to maintain the illusion of prosperity and well-being.
You are quite right that the problem is widespread and certainly isn't an exclusive failing of Apple alone.
But there is another aspect.
The Apple products are luxury goods, not in any way contributing to the essentials of feeding, sanitation, housing, health-care and education. ... The things that are essential to stay alive and raise healthy children.
In addition, Apple and many of their most vocal supporters keep pointing out the insane profit margins and enormous pile of cash rotting in some banks outside of the USA. So while Apple isn't the ONLY, it may well be the WORST offender in the exploitation game.
When one praises Cook for his supply-chain genius, you do need to think of the cost to the third world that he knowingly accepts to achieve the results that Apple produces.
And let's face it. A couple of billion out of Apple's Stash of Cash would go a long way to eliminate the exploitation of the poor on which Apples riches are largely based. This is a problem that Apple can make a much more significant contribution to solve. But there is no interest in doing so. The consumer technology industries are not about ethics but simply primitive, naked capitalism with all of the dark-side aspects that this involves.
So I don't feel sorry in the least for the bad light that the BusinessWeek Article shines on one of the most high profile companies in the world. Apple deserves the shit storm. The fact that other companies also deserve it, is beside the point.
Indeed it happens in the USA. There was a set of blog posts written by someone who worked in the 3PL (third party logistics - subcontractors) warehouses that shipped for Amazon. Ever wonder why a price on Amazon is "too good to be true"? And of course they are contractors to Amazon so guess who can wash their hands clean in the unlikely event there is ever a crackdown or a whistleblower?
Lets fix the problem here before we throw stones. It is true that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere, but we can certainly apply more pressure on our home soil, and vote with our dollars.
1. they want an "in between" company like Flextronics to do the dirty work
or
2. They can't produce their devices as cheap as Flextronics and are to ignorant to understand that there's a reason for this.
Flextronics is located in Singapore, you're correct. But most of these serious labor abuse stories are from Foxconn and other Chinese companies. I made a mistake implying they were from China. I would say asian electronics manufacturers, but that would include Japanese and South Korean companies as well as others who seem to have a non abusive track record.
Maybe you should try to hit the link ProApple posted another time and look for a single Singapore's habitant in Flextronics' leadership team. Guess what, you will not find one. Flextronics is an American company from origin which has found a way to get under the radars by getting their legal seat in Singapore. Not only about every single member of Flextronics' leadership team is an American, I bet they are located in the States for at least 90% of their time. So stop acting like Americans and American companies won't do things like this.