Apple loses smartphone market share as Chinese vendors gain in Q3 - Gartner

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  • Reply 21 of 59
    Apple needs to come out with some slogan like, "Yes, we're constantly losing market share, but we're proud of it it." It might help investors to think that Apple isn't just some ordinary market share-losing company. Currently, investors look at Apple and say to themselves why should they invest money into a company that every quarter seems to be closer to the brink of doom. They think, "Hey, Apple isn't selling iPhones because everyone on the planet is buying Android smartphones and that's not good for business." Time for an image change. All I know is Android is a huge thorn in Apple's core business. Meanwhile, Google has become the tech darling of Wall Street and Apple has become a well-worn sock full of holes ready to be tossed into the trash.

    Whatever Apple's gains are, they're being completely overshadowed by Android numbers and that's all anyone notices. The Apple bulls can look at it anyway they want but I'd like to ask where the supposed trillion dollar market cap company has gone to besides fallen into an Android black hole. The Apple bulls keep saying about how market share doesn't mean a darn thing, but as long as Wall Street says it does, Apple shareholders are going to continue to get totally bent. Apple sells 40 million iPhones and Samsung will sell 120 million smartphones and it doesn't matter if 100 million of those aren't Galaxy S-class smartphones. Apple still comes out looking as the big smartphone industry loser because Apple isn't getting but a tiny, tiny percentage of global smartphone growth.

    This isn't a rant and I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it as I see it. I want Apple to go after Google's core search engine business but Apple doesn't seem interested in doing that so Apple will have to continue taking its lumps from Google's Android and there's not a thing they can do about it.
  • Reply 22 of 59
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post



    As we all know, the analysis has defined Apple market as all people buying a cell phone. If you ask Apple who their market is, they have a completely different view of this. The analysis are attempting to cut the data in various ways to tell a story. Even they can not cut it how Apple defines its market.



    I think most people would agree Apple is not trying to sell a phone to every person looking to buy a phone. They are only interested in the people with the willingness to part with their money and pay Apple's price as well continue to part with money to buy all the extra's like apps, music, videos, computers to go along with their iOS devices and the list goes on. Apple could care less about people who are only looking to see how cheap they can get something.



    There is no way for analysis to figure out if Apple got 100% of those with money spending it on Apple products. It is just easier to say Apples market it everyone buying a phone.



    The Stat I would like to see is how many Apple products are still be using 2 and 3 yrs later verses the competition. I suspect that most of the Android is replacing a phone which does not work anymore, so it been recycled and removed from the market. Imagine how many cars would be sold every year if they were crushed and recycle ever year verse being handed down or resold. I believe most of Samsung's business is going to the same people replacing an Samsung phone which is no longer usable.



    Smartphones are supposed to be used with data plans.  This is mostly true with US carriers.  But I suspect this is not true in a lot of countries.  AI readers from other nations please confirm this.  I suspect most of the cheap Android phone buyers are either without a data plan or with a pay as you use data plan.  So a meaningful comparison is between iPhone and other 'smartphone' with data plans.

  • Reply 23 of 59
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     



    Smartphones are supposed to be used with data plans.  This is mostly true with US carriers.  But I suspect this is not true in a lot of countries.  AI readers from other nations please confirm this.  I suspect most of the cheap Android phone buyers are either without a data plan or with a pay as you use data plan.  So a meaningful comparison is between iPhone and other 'smartphone' with data plans.




    As an example most US carriers charge $30/month for a 3GB data plan.  But a lot of users use only several hundred MBs per month.  They are overpaying.  If there is a pay as you use data plan, they could simply pay the full price of iPhone first and save a lot money.

  • Reply 24 of 59
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    nelsonx wrote: »
    You are right! But you know what the problem is? Those "people" are probably 90% of the Earth population!

    I truly doubt people in Somalia are buying Androids.
  • Reply 25 of 59
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post



    Shocker: one company's market share can't grow as fast as 10+ companies combined.

    Wrong.  Samsung could do it and will keep trying.  Apple could, too, if it really wanted to.  Nokia had done it at for a brief time.  Holding that market share growth was a lot harder for Nokia than getting it.  With as much money as Apple has, if they decided to just sell smartphones at every price point, they certainly could manage it.  It's just that with their hard to assemble components and super-high standards, Apple is producing iPhones and tablets at a snail's pace.  The cheaper and simpler you make your products the more you can sell especially if you have a decent product and are willing to undercut all your competition.  It's a poor business model but it would really impress Wall Street for a while until the whole thing collapsed.

     

    What's both sad and amusing is that Wall Street knows exactly what Apple's business goals are and what it's business model is geared for but still lumps it in with Android's "One smartphone for every living man, woman and child" business model.  Apple is basically the Porsche business model lumped in with Kia's and Toyota's business model which is certainly an improper if not unfair comparison.

    Anyway, Wall Street expects Apple to outsell 10+ companies combined and that's how Apple is being valued.  It might actually take that much in order to boost Apple's share price considerably.  Apple is already carrying a significant amount of revenue weight on its shoulders.

  • Reply 26 of 59
    jessijessi Posts: 302member
    Unlike Apple, Samsung does not report actual sales. Therefore there is no real data for Gartner to work from.

    This "analysis" is really Samsung paying Gartner to put out propaganda to make it look like Samsung is more successful than it is.

    Just like ALL of the "android is winning" BS you see-- all coming from "analysts" who are paid to put out propaganda for their clients.
  • Reply 27 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,787member
    nelsonx wrote: »
    You are right! But you know what the problem is? Those "people" are probably 90% of the Earth population!

    What would make more sense though is comparing, dare I say it, Apples to Apples ... data discussing Apple's share of all 'smart phones' is as useless as BMW, Jaguar, Bentley or Tesla being compared in tables of total car sales world wide.
  • Reply 28 of 59

    Gartner reports that JD Power's confidence ratings are at an all time low, and JD Powers reports that customer sanctification with Gartner has never been worse.  

     

    In other news someone looked in the trash dumpster at a factory in China and determine that iPad mini retina display supplies are "constrained".

  • Reply 29 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,787member
    jessi wrote: »
    Unlike Apple, Samsung does not report actual sales. Therefore there is no real data for Gartner to work from.

    This "analysis" is really Samsung paying Gartner to put out propaganda to make it look like Samsung is more successful than it is.

    Just like ALL of the "android is winning" BS you see-- all coming from "analysts" who are paid to put out propaganda for their clients.

    Talking of which, I'd like to see the media world wide carrying the quote from Scamsung's lawer on every front page ... "no disputing we sold Apple's property and owe a 'huge sum of money'"

    Especially in the UK where Apple were forced by that Ahole judge to admit in they were the wrong doers and apologize!:no:
  • Reply 30 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     



    Smartphones are supposed to be used with data plans.  This is mostly true with US carriers.  But I suspect this is not true in a lot of countries.  AI readers from other nations please confirm this.  I suspect most of the cheap Android phone buyers are either without a data plan or with a pay as you use data plan.  So a meaningful comparison is between iPhone and other 'smartphone' with data plans.


    Exactly, Data plans make money for service providers and all the current data says iphone users use more data than the Android counter part. Service provider have a love/hate relationship with Apple, they hate them since Apple makes all the profits on the phone and the extras and Apple maintains direct contact with the customer. They love them since they make lots of money off data plans, and as far as I know other than the ipad, there is not pay as you go with data, it all or nothing for phones in the US. I know in my house and 3 iphones we only use half the data we pay for.

  • Reply 31 of 59
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

     

     I don't think Apple is worried about losing marketshare. 


    Maybe not worried but perhaps concerned. Market share is crucial because it is the driver behind Apple's ecosystem of services and media which keeps iOS relevant.

     

    As long as Apple maintains around 50% market share, the ecosystem thrives. I would suggest that market share concerns were the main reason Apple released the 5c. At some point the mobile computing growth curve will start to plateau, so, before that happens Apple needs as many users onboard as possible in order to continue the growth in apps and ecosystem. Once smartphone saturation happens the ecosystem becomes the most important factor and to maintain that, you need a lot of users.

  • Reply 32 of 59
    If Android own the smartphone market is Apple's fault. Apple should stop recycling the same phone.

    Come on, the iPhone 5S screen is the same exact tiny one from the iPhone 5 (1136 x 640 pixel resolution). ALL new premium smartphones are FULL HD (1920 x 1080) and this is something you can REALLY notice.

    Using a tiny non-HD smartphone feels like watching a movie on a non-HD TV.
  • Reply 33 of 59
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

     
    Especially in the UK where Apple were forced by that Ahole judge to admit in they were the wrong doers and apologize!image


    Saying "Apple were" as if Apple is a plural word sounds dumb and is also wrong as far as I'm concerned. I'm not an English expert and it is not even my native language but I know it is wrong because Apple itself does not ever use that form. I collected the following phrases from Apple's legal section of the website.

     

    Quote:

    Only Apple and its authorized resellers...

    Apple or its products...

    Apple’s ownership of its trademark(s)...

    Apple does not support the use of its logos...

    Apple’s innovation is embodied in its Intellectual Property...

    Apple or any of its employees...

    Apple Inc. is registered with the United States Copyright Office...

    Apple actively and aggressively enforces its intellectual property rights...

    Apple works closely with the Business Software Alliance...

    Please join Apple in its piracy prevention efforts...

     

    Apple aggressively enforces our company’s proprietary rights under the U.S. copyright laws, but we know that poor software asset management often keeps people from complying with the law.


    The last example demonstrates how plural and singular can be mixed. As you can see  it is written "our company" and "but we know" making Apple plural, but only because Apple, as a company, can't actually "know" or "think", anything, and the sentence is written as if a person at Apple was speaking for the team, not an outsider. 

  • Reply 34 of 59
    512ke512ke Posts: 782member
    I call foul. This is not an accurate metric of Apple's current success. They are doing extremely well in sales and market share. Contradictory reports will shortly follow this guaranteed.
  • Reply 35 of 59
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    One more thing.  Used iPhones are still being bought with high premium.  I think most of them are being bought to be shipped to overseas where the user do not have to pay high prices of data plans. 

  • Reply 36 of 59
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Soulbearer View Post



    blah


    blah


    zzz


     


     

     

    Blocked for boring.

  • Reply 37 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     

    Blocked for boring.


     

    Yeah, come to think of it, where are Tallest's curt dismissals today?  Seems like there's ample fodder for those all over this thread.

  • Reply 38 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,787member
    mstone wrote: »
    Saying "Apple were" as if Apple is a plural word sounds dumb and is also wrong as far as I'm concerned. I'm not an English expert and it is not even my native language but I know it is wrong because Apple itself does not ever use that form. I collected the following phrases from Apple's legal section of the website.

    The last example demonstrates how plural and singular can be mixed. As you can see  it is written "our company" and "but we know" making Apple plural, but only because Apple, as a company, can't actually "know" or "think", anything, and the sentence is written as if a person at Apple was speaking for the team, not an outsider. 

    Jeez you really spent that long pointing out an accidental slip, how dumb can you be?

    You seem to have either too much time on your hands or you are a pedant. If you read most of my posts you would see I am not totally ignorant of the use of my native tongue and usually do refer to Apple in the singular, I certainly did when I was working for them. :no:

    As Soli would have no doubt done, I post, for your edification, this wonderful 'up yours' link .. :D
  • Reply 39 of 59
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post



    Jeez you really spent that long pointing out an accidental slip, how dumb can you be?

    Sorry, didn't realize it was an accidental slip, apologizes. I should have guessed that though, since you definitely don't seem like the pretentious type, unlike the other people on this forum who use the Apple name as a plural to act like they are so clever and intelligent. It is just irritating.

  • Reply 40 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,787member
    mstone wrote: »
    Sorry, didn't realize it was an accidental slip, apologizes. I should have guessed that though, since you definitely don't seem like the pretentious type, unlike the other people on this forum who use the Apple name as a plural to act like they are so clever and intelligent. It is just irritating.

    OK you are forgiven. It is a great video though :)

    Why though, do you see the incorrect pluralization of proper noun as pretentious rather than simply incorrect grammar? That totally escapes my understanding.
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