When you assert they are "doing something seriously wrong" after claiming to have "the same electric bill" are you referring to the energy utilized, the cost of the actual bill, or even considering that each month is rarely ever an exact calendar month which would need to be prorated against your bill?
Furthermore, did you get with the author to fully consider the the size of their domicle, the temperature variances of their specific location, the age of their structure, the type of structure (including windows and ceiling height), and their ideal temperature ranges, among many other factors that have nothing to do with HVAC that contribute to power usage?
1800 sq ft. constructed in 1981, wood frame structure, 95-105 degrees F in the summer, no trees to provide shade. The windows are not efficient at this time. Lowering the bill by a hundred dollars in the summer was a real win.
I build custom homes in Carmel, Ca.. Most of my clients build second homes here.
I started giving everyone a Nest upon completion. They are great for my clients, driving down from the Bay Area they can crank up the heat when they are a half hour out.
Also works great if they accidentally leave the heat on, just open the app and turn it off!.
Incredible, in one month the same electric bill as I have in almost a year (and yes I am talking about a house (and not a small one), not an apartment).
You live in a temperate area & don't have AC.
Perhaps, although -15 degrees Celsius or 35 degrees Celsius is no exception.
But having an airconditioner is a choice as is keeping room temperature at 22 degrees Celsius.
I build custom homes in Carmel, Ca.. Most of my clients build second homes here.
I started giving everyone a Nest upon completion. They are great for my clients, driving down from the Bay Area they can crank up the heat when they are a half hour out.
Also works great if they accidentally leave the heat on, just open the app and turn it off!.
You must have done that with my sister. She loved the Nest so much in the Carmel house, that she got them in her house up here, and then bought me one for my house. I'm now in the process of replacing all of our thermostats with Nests, and getting Nest Protect units as well.
I don't need to spend $250 for a thermostat when I already have a far less expensive programmable thermostat that works flawlessly, and saves me money. When I am out of the house during the summer months, it is set at 80 degrees. When I come home, it lowers to 76 during the summer. I don't need to control it with an iPhone, nor do I need it to learn different patterns. During the Fall, Winter, and Spring when the temps are average and mild, it is set to OFF and the windows are open for fresh air. Energy efficient windows provide the most savings. If you have thin-glass windows, a Nest won't save you money since all the heat and cool will continue to escape out of your home. I live in CA, so the occasional heat wave requires the AC, but I rarely need to heat the house in the winter since the windows do an excellent job keeping the heat in and the temperature steady. I don't believe in running the AC/Heat every single day when you can open the windows on cool days for fresh air.
I know what I wrote, It wasn't the same as your previous 'quote'.
Reading 'between the lines' must be a problem for you.
I quoted what you wrote by copying and pasting it. There is no syntax answer and your point is very clear but your logic is flawed as you clearly didn't consider anything outside your limited, myopic view of power consumption.
Perhaps? You don't know if you live in a temperate climate or if you have AC? [quote]But having an airconditioner is a choice[/quote] and a "seriously wrong" choice, right?
and your response to SolipsismX... [quote]I know what I wrote, It wasn't the same as your previous 'quote'[/quote] Are you reading a different thread than the rest of us? The 4 words he quoted are exactly as you wrote (hence the quotes).
What are you doing that damages the base plate? Slapping the thermostat every time you walk by? Dog jumping and biting it?
And by 'base unit heats up the ambient temp', do you mean it is physically getting warm? If so, that sounds like maybe you have wired it so a short is occurring, not enough to blow a fuse [hopefully even these wires have a fuse, I know my furnace does, as when we were fixing the hole we made to run new wiring for our Nest, we weren't careful about the wires and touched the wrong two together, and the fuse in the furnace itself blew].
Even only using the thermostat itself to program and control it shouldn't damage the base plate, unless you are unable to control your own strength and keep detaching it from the base. And for the fan to remain on with the thermostat removed means that somehow either the wires themselves are crossed [bare metal is touching] or pins are bent.
Simply put, this doesn't seem like it is occuring during normal usage.
I'm doing nothing wrong. I install and build custom ECU units for a living. The thing I like about the Nest is I don't have to touch it. I set the schedule and let it run. I mostly interact with though my iOS device or computer. So imagine my surprise I come in one day and it freezing in the office. The Nest Thermostat says its 80 when its really 65 and the Nest calling for cooling still. It was set to 72. Check out the Nest Community for back back/base plates. The defective plate does actually generate heat which throws of the ambient Temp. It is warm to the touch after removing the main unit. I have replaced the bad base plate with one from another unit and everything works fine.
Nest is buying back all my thermostats (5 2.0 Nests) because of the blown FET (transistor) in the backplate issue - many people have this problem, and Nest does not know why certain systems present the issue.
The wiring digram says I'm compatible, but the compressor connection (Y1) keeps blowing, causing the compressor to run, air handler off, and overheating the Nest. I have a dual transformer system (separate transformers for the AC and Heat systems), and I suspect their method of "vampire" power stealing from the transformers is getting them in trouble in many systems.
My AC zones are four independent systems (four compressors each with their own air handler) so they are in affect the simplest of design, single zone AC. - direct wire from the Nest to the air handler.
I have spent quite a bit of money on "certified" Nest installers to troubleshoot, and they couldn't fix it. The same Carrier heating and cooling systems worked fine for 20 years on the original White Rodgers programmable thermostats.
Be warned that even if your wiring is verified compatible, your system may not be, and there's no way of knowing in advance.
The Nest does not offer any multi-sensor or multiple-control features - no multi-thermostat features at all, and Nests in the same home don't interact.
For a Nest-like system with multiple sensors and remote control, the much more capable Honeywell Prestige 2 series does a great job.
You are wrong. Nests talk with each other in the same home. For instance if one nest goes into away mode they all do if no one is in the home they do talk with each other.
Perhaps, although -15 degrees Celsius or 35 degrees Celsius is no exception.
But having an airconditioner is a choice as is keeping room temperature at 22 degrees Celsius.
In this part of the US, all houses are sold equipped with central cooling and heating. There's no choice to not have an air conditioner.
There very much is a choice to keep the room conditioned at 72 F / 22 C. Given that you propose going without air con, that would be 105 F / 40 C.
No, thank you. The truth is that we could make other gains by installing gaskets under each of the electric wall plates, wrapping the ductwork under the house in an insulated blanket (not required by building code) and setting a wider range on Nest - 68 to 76 perhaps. But the value in using Nest consistently as we did the lousy thermostat that preceded it meant that all variables from before Nest to after were pretty much consistent.
I have 4 Nest Thermostats with 2 already failed. The base plate has failed on both of them. The fan is locked on even with face unit removed. The worst part is the base unit heats up the ambient temp. According to Nest's forums this is a common problem. I'm trying to get hold of Nest to get replacement bases. This is a big disappointment for a $250 Thermostat. I have to use the old dumb cheap thermostats that have worked for years until I can get replacement bases. I love the Nest thermostat when it works but this failure rate is disappointing.
I have had 2 nests for 2 years and not one issue with them at all. The have saved me on my annual heating and cooling around 12%. Which has already paid for the cost. Keep in mind I had programmable thermostats before and I did have them programmed properly. With fan control on the nest, auto away, and generally better sensors than other competitors it has led to the 12% savings which is what I wanted from them. I have no complaints at all. I love the green leaf system that trains you to save power and gas.
Can anyone add some comments about how Nest interacts in a two thermostat home? Do you still get the same benefits and is it designed to work with other Nests?
Yes when you have more than one nest they talk with each other wirelessly, you do have to have wireless in your home. They coordinate auto away, and auto fan and other info with each other including the auto learning they do to save you money on your heating and cooling see:
I am always amazed how there is never a comment on the simple fact that if your NEST is in a place where you almost never walk by it, you lose one of the most valuable part of its capabilities. My thermostat is in the living room, a place that I just don't visit all that often. Without an ability to have multiple remote sensors, it is useless beyond what I already have, a good and dependable programable Honeywell thermostat.
I think your thermostat location is more the exception than the norm. Most thermostats are in the hallways between bedrooms and the rest of the house. If you had multiple nests like I do they do talk with each other and communicate auto away and other functions and share sensor data. Nest has said that it is working on remote averaging sensors for there nests which do support home automation integration.
Yes, I expect mine is not a common location. It is my guess that there will be a product that will have multiple wireless sensors or will use my or my wife's iphone to track my movement (it is always with me) and that is what will let the house know that I am on my way home. And of course, it will also know when I am home. The possibilities are endless.
Oh, we only have the one thermostat as the house has only one zone for cooling or heating. Interestingly, there are four floors, so system balance is important. Retrofitting it to have multiple zones would be prohibitly expensive. So, at this point, there is only one place for a thermostat.
You're extremely lucky...and your experience is getting more rare relative to users experiencing failures. It's not an issue of if, but whenit will fail.
Your issue is not wide spread I read nest forums every day and nest is working on a solution. For customers that can't wait for that solution they are refunding your money.
Here is a post from a Nest Engineer on there forums that I quoted:
Quote:
First off, I want to assure everyone this is not a common problem at all. We have many thousands of units out in the world and a very few of them ever develop this particular problem.
The problem in question is actually caused by the HVAC system sending noise on the lines which can damage the circuit in the Nest Learning Thermostat. This circuit is the switch that can open and close to allow power to flow to your HVAC device. Nest is continually working on advances in engineering to try and minimize these problems for future customers. We have already made improvements in this area that have fixed the issue for many customers.
If you are seeing a high ambient temperature and the base is hot, this is the issue I am discussing. It is also possible that if you have problems with your WiFi setup, that the constant activity of the WiFi chip on the Nest will also cause your temperature to read high. That, however, will not cause a hot spot on the base near the terminals.
So, if you are seeing this high readings, we need to talk to you and see if we can figure out what your particular issue is. I will follow up with both of you to make sure you are taken care of if you have not already contacted us an gotten this resolved.
Apparently some HVAC systems generate electrical noise (voltage spikes) causing the switch transistor in the base to overheat or be damaged. As was stated in the letter there are literally hundreds of thousands of nests out there. This problem is related to relatively a very small number of those.
No I don't work for nest. So don't go there. I have two nests installed in my house now for over 2 years with not one issue.
For you to post here and tell everyone that it is not if but when it fails is inaccurate at best.
Making it sound like all of them are failing when a small number are because of the HVAC units there install on is inaccurate too.
Nest cannot account for the literally hundreds of HVAC systems that are out there. With different control circuits and different architectures. But they are correcting your issue as I write this and Im sure that it will not be an issue in the future, like I said for those that can't wait they are refunding your purchase and you can go back to whatever you were using previously.
Comments
When you assert they are "doing something seriously wrong" after claiming to have "the same electric bill" are you referring to the energy utilized, the cost of the actual bill, or even considering that each month is rarely ever an exact calendar month which would need to be prorated against your bill?
Furthermore, did you get with the author to fully consider the the size of their domicle, the temperature variances of their specific location, the age of their structure, the type of structure (including windows and ceiling height), and their ideal temperature ranges, among many other factors that have nothing to do with HVAC that contribute to power usage?
1800 sq ft. constructed in 1981, wood frame structure, 95-105 degrees F in the summer, no trees to provide shade. The windows are not efficient at this time. Lowering the bill by a hundred dollars in the summer was a real win.
I started giving everyone a Nest upon completion. They are great for my clients, driving down from the Bay Area they can crank up the heat when they are a half hour out.
Also works great if they accidentally leave the heat on, just open the app and turn it off!.
Incredible, in one month the same electric bill as I have in almost a year (and yes I am talking about a house (and not a small one), not an apartment).
You live in a temperate area & don't have AC.
Perhaps, although -15 degrees Celsius or 35 degrees Celsius is no exception.
But having an airconditioner is a choice as is keeping room temperature at 22 degrees Celsius.
When you assert they are "doing something seriously wrong" ...
Actually I did no such thing.
You wrote, and I quote, "You must be doing something seriously wrong."
I build custom homes in Carmel, Ca.. Most of my clients build second homes here.
I started giving everyone a Nest upon completion. They are great for my clients, driving down from the Bay Area they can crank up the heat when they are a half hour out.
Also works great if they accidentally leave the heat on, just open the app and turn it off!.
You must have done that with my sister. She loved the Nest so much in the Carmel house, that she got them in her house up here, and then bought me one for my house. I'm now in the process of replacing all of our thermostats with Nests, and getting Nest Protect units as well.
I don't need to spend $250 for a thermostat when I already have a far less expensive programmable thermostat that works flawlessly, and saves me money. When I am out of the house during the summer months, it is set at 80 degrees. When I come home, it lowers to 76 during the summer. I don't need to control it with an iPhone, nor do I need it to learn different patterns. During the Fall, Winter, and Spring when the temps are average and mild, it is set to OFF and the windows are open for fresh air. Energy efficient windows provide the most savings. If you have thin-glass windows, a Nest won't save you money since all the heat and cool will continue to escape out of your home. I live in CA, so the occasional heat wave requires the AC, but I rarely need to heat the house in the winter since the windows do an excellent job keeping the heat in and the temperature steady. I don't believe in running the AC/Heat every single day when you can open the windows on cool days for fresh air.
You wrote, and I quote, "You must be doing something seriously wrong."
I know what I wrote, It wasn't the same as your previous 'quote'.
Reading 'between the lines' must be a problem for you.
I quoted what you wrote by copying and pasting it. There is no syntax answer and your point is very clear but your logic is flawed as you clearly didn't consider anything outside your limited, myopic view of power consumption.
Perhaps
Perhaps? You don't know if you live in a temperate climate or if you have AC?
[quote]But having an airconditioner is a choice[/quote]
and a "seriously wrong" choice, right?
and your response to SolipsismX...
[quote]I know what I wrote, It wasn't the same as your previous 'quote'[/quote]
Are you reading a different thread than the rest of us?
The 4 words he quoted are exactly as you wrote (hence the quotes).
But then again, you "knowitall", right?
sheesh...
What are you doing that damages the base plate? Slapping the thermostat every time you walk by? Dog jumping and biting it?
And by 'base unit heats up the ambient temp', do you mean it is physically getting warm? If so, that sounds like maybe you have wired it so a short is occurring, not enough to blow a fuse [hopefully even these wires have a fuse, I know my furnace does, as when we were fixing the hole we made to run new wiring for our Nest, we weren't careful about the wires and touched the wrong two together, and the fuse in the furnace itself blew].
Even only using the thermostat itself to program and control it shouldn't damage the base plate, unless you are unable to control your own strength and keep detaching it from the base. And for the fan to remain on with the thermostat removed means that somehow either the wires themselves are crossed [bare metal is touching] or pins are bent.
Simply put, this doesn't seem like it is occuring during normal usage.
I'm doing nothing wrong. I install and build custom ECU units for a living. The thing I like about the Nest is I don't have to touch it. I set the schedule and let it run. I mostly interact with though my iOS device or computer. So imagine my surprise I come in one day and it freezing in the office. The Nest Thermostat says its 80 when its really 65 and the Nest calling for cooling still. It was set to 72. Check out the Nest Community for back back/base plates. The defective plate does actually generate heat which throws of the ambient Temp. It is warm to the touch after removing the main unit. I have replaced the bad base plate with one from another unit and everything works fine.
Nest is buying back all my thermostats (5 2.0 Nests) because of the blown FET (transistor) in the backplate issue - many people have this problem, and Nest does not know why certain systems present the issue.
The wiring digram says I'm compatible, but the compressor connection (Y1) keeps blowing, causing the compressor to run, air handler off, and overheating the Nest. I have a dual transformer system (separate transformers for the AC and Heat systems), and I suspect their method of "vampire" power stealing from the transformers is getting them in trouble in many systems.
My AC zones are four independent systems (four compressors each with their own air handler) so they are in affect the simplest of design, single zone AC. - direct wire from the Nest to the air handler.
I have spent quite a bit of money on "certified" Nest installers to troubleshoot, and they couldn't fix it. The same Carrier heating and cooling systems worked fine for 20 years on the original White Rodgers programmable thermostats.
Be warned that even if your wiring is verified compatible, your system may not be, and there's no way of knowing in advance.
The Nest does not offer any multi-sensor or multiple-control features - no multi-thermostat features at all, and Nests in the same home don't interact.
For a Nest-like system with multiple sensors and remote control, the much more capable Honeywell Prestige 2 series does a great job.
You are wrong. Nests talk with each other in the same home. For instance if one nest goes into away mode they all do if no one is in the home they do talk with each other.
Here is a link talking about this: http://support.nest.com/article/How-does-Nest-work-if-I-have-multiple-Nest-Learning-Thermostats-in-the-same-home
Perhaps, although -15 degrees Celsius or 35 degrees Celsius is no exception.
But having an airconditioner is a choice as is keeping room temperature at 22 degrees Celsius.
In this part of the US, all houses are sold equipped with central cooling and heating. There's no choice to not have an air conditioner.
There very much is a choice to keep the room conditioned at 72 F / 22 C. Given that you propose going without air con, that would be 105 F / 40 C.
No, thank you. The truth is that we could make other gains by installing gaskets under each of the electric wall plates, wrapping the ductwork under the house in an insulated blanket (not required by building code) and setting a wider range on Nest - 68 to 76 perhaps. But the value in using Nest consistently as we did the lousy thermostat that preceded it meant that all variables from before Nest to after were pretty much consistent.
I have 4 Nest Thermostats with 2 already failed. The base plate has failed on both of them. The fan is locked on even with face unit removed. The worst part is the base unit heats up the ambient temp. According to Nest's forums this is a common problem. I'm trying to get hold of Nest to get replacement bases. This is a big disappointment for a $250 Thermostat. I have to use the old dumb cheap thermostats that have worked for years until I can get replacement bases. I love the Nest thermostat when it works but this failure rate is disappointing.
I have had 2 nests for 2 years and not one issue with them at all. The have saved me on my annual heating and cooling around 12%. Which has already paid for the cost. Keep in mind I had programmable thermostats before and I did have them programmed properly. With fan control on the nest, auto away, and generally better sensors than other competitors it has led to the 12% savings which is what I wanted from them. I have no complaints at all. I love the green leaf system that trains you to save power and gas.
Can anyone add some comments about how Nest interacts in a two thermostat home? Do you still get the same benefits and is it designed to work with other Nests?
Yes when you have more than one nest they talk with each other wirelessly, you do have to have wireless in your home. They coordinate auto away, and auto fan and other info with each other including the auto learning they do to save you money on your heating and cooling see:
http://support.nest.com/article/How-does-Nest-work-if-I-have-multiple-Nest-Learning-Thermostats-in-the-same-home
I am always amazed how there is never a comment on the simple fact that if your NEST is in a place where you almost never walk by it, you lose one of the most valuable part of its capabilities. My thermostat is in the living room, a place that I just don't visit all that often. Without an ability to have multiple remote sensors, it is useless beyond what I already have, a good and dependable programable Honeywell thermostat.
I think your thermostat location is more the exception than the norm. Most thermostats are in the hallways between bedrooms and the rest of the house. If you had multiple nests like I do they do talk with each other and communicate auto away and other functions and share sensor data. Nest has said that it is working on remote averaging sensors for there nests which do support home automation integration.
Yes, I expect mine is not a common location. It is my guess that there will be a product that will have multiple wireless sensors or will use my or my wife's iphone to track my movement (it is always with me) and that is what will let the house know that I am on my way home. And of course, it will also know when I am home. The possibilities are endless.
Oh, we only have the one thermostat as the house has only one zone for cooling or heating. Interestingly, there are four floors, so system balance is important. Retrofitting it to have multiple zones would be prohibitly expensive. So, at this point, there is only one place for a thermostat.
You're extremely lucky...and your experience is getting more rare relative to users experiencing failures. It's not an issue of if, but when it will fail.
Your issue is not wide spread I read nest forums every day and nest is working on a solution. For customers that can't wait for that solution they are refunding your money.
Here is a post from a Nest Engineer on there forums that I quoted:
First off, I want to assure everyone this is not a common problem at all. We have many thousands of units out in the world and a very few of them ever develop this particular problem.
The problem in question is actually caused by the HVAC system sending noise on the lines which can damage the circuit in the Nest Learning Thermostat. This circuit is the switch that can open and close to allow power to flow to your HVAC device. Nest is continually working on advances in engineering to try and minimize these problems for future customers. We have already made improvements in this area that have fixed the issue for many customers.
If you are seeing a high ambient temperature and the base is hot, this is the issue I am discussing. It is also possible that if you have problems with your WiFi setup, that the constant activity of the WiFi chip on the Nest will also cause your temperature to read high. That, however, will not cause a hot spot on the base near the terminals.
So, if you are seeing this high readings, we need to talk to you and see if we can figure out what your particular issue is. I will follow up with both of you to make sure you are taken care of if you have not already contacted us an gotten this resolved.
Apparently some HVAC systems generate electrical noise (voltage spikes) causing the switch transistor in the base to overheat or be damaged. As was stated in the letter there are literally hundreds of thousands of nests out there. This problem is related to relatively a very small number of those.
No I don't work for nest. So don't go there. I have two nests installed in my house now for over 2 years with not one issue.
For you to post here and tell everyone that it is not if but when it fails is inaccurate at best.
Making it sound like all of them are failing when a small number are because of the HVAC units there install on is inaccurate too.
Nest cannot account for the literally hundreds of HVAC systems that are out there. With different control circuits and different architectures. But they are correcting your issue as I write this and Im sure that it will not be an issue in the future, like I said for those that can't wait they are refunding your purchase and you can go back to whatever you were using previously.