First off, FOSS Patents posts scores of in depth reports on global cases every month. If you think citing one example of a possible outcome that didn’t immediately occur lets you confidently state that nothing Mueller writes is reliable, you need to get serious.
Also, if you say things like "stretching theories to one extreme side of the argument" you can’t then cite Graklaw, a one sided propaganda site that only argues a single extremist line of Google’s talking points, contradicting itself as much as Google’s own hypocrisy does.
Google bots like yourself attack Mueller because he cuts through the "open" rhetoric bandied about by Eric Schmidt and the company’s blatant disregard for every other company’s IP while attempting to abuse any patents it can obtain itself.
Mueller is a paid troll, who earns his money by generating click bait for whichever company pays him. Not too hot on declaring his interests while doing so, unfortunately. It wouldn't surprise me if "Corrections" was in fact the man himself. He had a soft spot for Groklaw also.
Also, Java SE and DalvikVM are designed differently, where one use a stack without fixed register count or width, the other is replicating the real hardware approach of a fixe count and width of register and a set of ASM instructions. For the java performance test, Intel needed a new compiler, an OS running natively on the platform, some special lib, a recompiled version of JavaVM with those special lib and a java test apps that can only run on this JavaVM setup. I don't say It can't be done, I just say Google got a very long road ahead to fully update their environment before developers could harvest every benefits of a 64bit platforms. They already can't tap every ARMv7 current feature from inside the DalvikVM. Google approach just look like Microsoft one as they just keep multiplying new runtimes environment: Win32, Win64, and every iteration of .NET since.
I see. That said, silicon vendors like Qualcomm do maintain their own builds of Dalvik which are more closely tailored to their chips compared to the AOSP Dalvik (see here for example http://www.anandtech.com/show/7517/google-nexus-5-review/2), and those tuned versions of Dalvik are what ultimately end up in most devices.
Apart from the obvious Android vs iOS tinge to this, does anyone not quake at the idea of being able to patent a software API? If Oracle does win this has far more serious implications for software development in the future!
Mueller is a paid troll, who earns his money by generating click bait for whichever company pays him. Not too hot on declaring his interests while doing so, unfortunately. It wouldn't surprise me if "Corrections" was in fact the man himself. He had a soft spot for Groklaw also.
And now I know you're a stupid troll for believing that.
I see. That said, silicon vendors like Qualcomm do maintain their own builds of Dalvik which are more closely tailored to their chips compared to the AOSP Dalvik (see here for example http://www.anandtech.com/show/7517/google-nexus-5-review/2), and those tuned versions of Dalvik are what ultimately end up in most devices.
Silicon vendor can tweak their own builds of Dalvik to maximize performance, but they can't change the specs inside the VM, Dalvik and ART are 32bit VM only, the same way you can always port an emulator or a VM like Dosbox on a new platform and got some performance gain, but apps running within Dosbox are still 16 bit apps even if Dosbox is compiled to run on a 64 bit intel chips. Same principle applies to Dalvik and ART. In all case, there is a performance taxes for using VM.
Maybe Google develops Chrome for high-end smartphones and leaves Android for the rest. In their 'crisis' meeting, I can imagine Samsung deliberating over whether to take their chances with Chrome or break away with Tizen.
One of the many things I've learned from Mr Mueller is that in tech there really is only one good guy, one company above all reproach. Only one company he's never had a bad thing to say about in his blog. Only one company that truly believes in "Don't be evil", that operates completely above board at all times. That company is Microsoft. All others, Apple included, are flawed in his view.
EDIT: Maybe two angelic companies as I can't find any complaint whatsoever about Oracle either. What a coincidence.
Yes and Al Jazeera never calls Obama a Kenyan tyrant. So they must be biased.
Mueller is a paid troll, who earns his money by generating click bait for whichever company pays him. Not too hot on declaring his interests while doing so, unfortunately. It wouldn't surprise me if "Corrections" was in fact the man himself. He had a soft spot for Groklaw also.
A troll is somebody who posts online just to rile people up. So no that’s not true of Mueller.
Click bait requires having ads to benefit from. FOSS Patents doesn’t, so that’s not true.
Clearly, you seem to think any string of words shooting from your mouth is legitimate. I don’t agree. You sound as intellectually bankrupt as most of the fomenting rage clowns who follow PJ’s increasing ridiculous rants on Groklaw.
You sound as intellectually bankrupt as most of the fomenting rage clowns who follow PJ’s increasing ridiculous rants on Groklaw.
Ummm... AFAIK PJ hasn't posted to Groklaw in a few months now, so no worries about her rant count increasing.
As for Al Jazeera they've had a complaint or two about Obama and US policy so no idea why you thought that supported your point. On the other hand I'll challenge you to find even a single sentence disparaging Microsoft in any way in his years of posts at FOSSPatents.
Not misinterpretation of fair use but instead copyrightability. According to reports the Appeals Court isn't questioning "fair use" at this point but instead whether API's can be copyrighted in the first place. If it rules they can be then the next step would apparently be another trial by the original court to determine if Google properly made "fair use" of the copyrighted material.
By the way this appeal is still vaguely attached to Oracle's patent infringement claims. If not for the original patent complaints Oracle could not have appealed to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
Wassup?
Alsup.
Alsup appears to have used the points used in fair use cases (Sony and Sega) to rule on the validity of Oracle's copyright, as was noted by Federal Circuit Judge Plager who was reported to have said repeatedly, that Alsup was confused or misunderstood the law.
Google's attorney was asked to stop citing the Sony and Sega fair use cases as they did not relate to the issue at hand, i.e. the validity of copyright.
Any issues regarding patents were withdrawn long ago.
Google's attorney was asked to stop citing the Sony and Sega fair use cases as they did not relate to the issue at hand, i.e. the validity of copyright. (Just as I said)
Any issues regarding patents were withdrawn long ago.
Correct, but it was because of the original patent infringement claims that the appeal was accepted by the 9th Circuit.
A troll is somebody who posts online just to rile people up. So no that’s not true of Mueller.
Click bait requires having ads to benefit from. FOSS Patents doesn’t, so that’s not true.
Clearly, you seem to think any string of words shooting from your mouth is legitimate. I don’t agree. You sound as intellectually bankrupt as most of the fomenting rage clowns who follow PJ’s increasing ridiculous rants on Groklaw.
Troll (noun): a person who submits a deliberately provocative posting.
Click Bait: any content or feature, within a website, designed specifically to gain attention or encourage others to link to the website.
Paid PR .ne. objective analysis or reporting. Mueller has form making controversial assertions and not attributing financial interest while doing so. And in retrospect, getting things royally wrong along the way, as I've cited here and which simple searches on the Internet ably demonstrate. It's a direct effect of his own business model. But thanks for telling me what I think, and having had 35 years in the software industry, as being recognised by you as achieving intellectual bankruptcy.
Chrome Apps do not feature in this case, but looks like Marc Andressen said some prophetic things about Windows becoming a layer of badly debugged device drivers back in the mid 1990s when the scripting language was called LocoScript. Now that's foresight, 20 years ahead of its eventual realisation. Android may become the same thing...
Troll (noun): a person who submits a deliberately provocative posting.
Click Bait: any content or feature, within a website, designed specifically to gain attention or encourage others to link to the website.
Paid PR .ne. objective analysis or reporting. Mueller has form making controversial assertions and not attributing financial interest while doing so. And in retrospect, getting things royally wrong along the way, as I've cited here and which simple searches on the Internet ably demonstrate. It's a direct effect of his own business model. But thanks for telling me what I think, and having had 35 years in the software industry, as being recognised by you as achieving intellectual bankruptcy.
Chrome Apps do not feature in this case, but looks like Marc Andressen said some prophetic things about Windows becoming a layer of badly debugged device drivers back in the mid 1990s when the scripting language was called LocoScript. Now that's foresight, 20 years ahead of its eventual realisation. Android may become the same thing...
So you got any facts to back up your opinions?
Perhaps a transcript of the case, showing the parts you claim Mueller misreported.
It seems the case will be overturned due to Alsup confusing fair use with copyright validity in his ruling much as Mueller's opinion pointed out months ago
I've wondered if the likes of LG and Samsung largely went into the mobile handset business on their own as the other big names started getting slaughtered. People like Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson, and so forth, started drawing down their supply chain, leaving people like LG and Samsung with production lines churning out parts that were not being bought by anyone else.
So, you have all this inventory and production lines that still haven't been fully paid for. If they invest $1 billion in a line with an expectation of having it paid in 10 years, but they're six years in and those they were expecting to buy the product suddenly stop buying ... well... not hard to see the math there.
Maybe it's all just an exercise in cost recovery for Samsung...
Just my thoughts.
What are you talking about? LG and Samsung didn't pop up overnight and start making handsets the other day. They've been making them for years.
Perhaps a transcript of the case, showing the parts you claim Mueller misreported.
It seems the case will be overturned due to Alsup confusing fair use with copyright validity in his ruling much as Mueller's opinion pointed out months ago
The appeal is a bit of a hop, skip and jump, with Oracle trying to assert that APIs are copyrightable entities, then if they prevail asking the court to rule on fair use, and then hoping the end result leads to some form of royalty stream. Nothing to do with Chrome Apps of course, which is the red herring in the base article.
In the final analysis, my personal guess is that Oracle will waste money on lawyers and see no related income at the end of this process. And that Mueller will get it wrong, as he did last time. Time will tell.
I'm just wondering - aren't any court wins for Oracle against Google at this point just pyrrhic victories? Google already had years to milk the profits out of Android and as someone pointed out, Google has been working on moving Android to a platform that doesn't infringe on Java. So all Google has to do is stall the proceedings as much as possible to gain the maximum mileage out of Java-based Android before moving on to the non-infringing version of Android. So Oracle will at most get damages which Google can afford to pay given all the profits they have milked out of Android.
So it appears that the strategy being employed by Google and Samsung is as follows:
1) Infringe on intellectual property and get to market faster.
2) Milk as much profit out of infringement as possible while the lawsuits take years to go through courts.
3) Move on to the next intellectual property infringement as soon as the court judgement on #1 is finalized.
4) Pay monetary damages for #1 (which will be peanuts compared to the profits from #2).
5) Rinse and repeat.
So I am not sure how any court losses on intellectual property infringement would actually be damaging to Google at this point, unless the court mandates the disgorgement of profits which is highly unlikely (the bar is set too high for this type of punishment).
It's going to be difficult to award damages since Google doesn’t profit off of Android directly, the OS is free.
The appeal is a bit of a hop, skip and jump, with Oracle trying to assert that APIs are copyrightable entities, then if they prevail asking the court to rule on fair use, and then hoping the end result leads to some form of royalty stream. Nothing to do with Chrome Apps of course, which is the red herring in the base article.
In the final analysis, my personal guess is that Oracle will waste money on lawyers and see no related income at the end of this process. And that Mueller will get it wrong, as he did last time. Time will tell.
Actually "the case" as in the ongoing appeals court case which is occurring now in which Federal Circuit Judge Plager was reported to have said repeatedly, that Alsup was confused or misunderstood the law, which negates most of the opinions in your links.
Don't bother linking to that Groklaw site, ever since SCO ended when they had some sort of relevance, it descended into a downward spiral of self absorbed, self-righteous circlejerkery.
The crap that is posted there post-SCO is worthless trash.
?Oracle don't care about the money, this is about bending Google over their own hypocrisy and ripping out Android's proprietary heart by enforcing a gpl licence.
Comments
Mueller is a paid troll, who earns his money by generating click bait for whichever company pays him. Not too hot on declaring his interests while doing so, unfortunately. It wouldn't surprise me if "Corrections" was in fact the man himself. He had a soft spot for Groklaw also.
Nope, he is DED
Also, Java SE and DalvikVM are designed differently, where one use a stack without fixed register count or width, the other is replicating the real hardware approach of a fixe count and width of register and a set of ASM instructions. For the java performance test, Intel needed a new compiler, an OS running natively on the platform, some special lib, a recompiled version of JavaVM with those special lib and a java test apps that can only run on this JavaVM setup. I don't say It can't be done, I just say Google got a very long road ahead to fully update their environment before developers could harvest every benefits of a 64bit platforms. They already can't tap every ARMv7 current feature from inside the DalvikVM. Google approach just look like Microsoft one as they just keep multiplying new runtimes environment: Win32, Win64, and every iteration of .NET since.
I see. That said, silicon vendors like Qualcomm do maintain their own builds of Dalvik which are more closely tailored to their chips compared to the AOSP Dalvik (see here for example http://www.anandtech.com/show/7517/google-nexus-5-review/2), and those tuned versions of Dalvik are what ultimately end up in most devices.
Apart from the obvious Android vs iOS tinge to this, does anyone not quake at the idea of being able to patent a software API? If Oracle does win this has far more serious implications for software development in the future!
Mueller is a paid troll, who earns his money by generating click bait for whichever company pays him. Not too hot on declaring his interests while doing so, unfortunately. It wouldn't surprise me if "Corrections" was in fact the man himself. He had a soft spot for Groklaw also.
And now I know you're a stupid troll for believing that.
I see. That said, silicon vendors like Qualcomm do maintain their own builds of Dalvik which are more closely tailored to their chips compared to the AOSP Dalvik (see here for example http://www.anandtech.com/show/7517/google-nexus-5-review/2), and those tuned versions of Dalvik are what ultimately end up in most devices.
Silicon vendor can tweak their own builds of Dalvik to maximize performance, but they can't change the specs inside the VM, Dalvik and ART are 32bit VM only, the same way you can always port an emulator or a VM like Dosbox on a new platform and got some performance gain, but apps running within Dosbox are still 16 bit apps even if Dosbox is compiled to run on a 64 bit intel chips. Same principle applies to Dalvik and ART. In all case, there is a performance taxes for using VM.
One of the many things I've learned from Mr Mueller is that in tech there really is only one good guy, one company above all reproach. Only one company he's never had a bad thing to say about in his blog. Only one company that truly believes in "Don't be evil", that operates completely above board at all times. That company is Microsoft. All others, Apple included, are flawed in his view.
EDIT: Maybe two angelic companies as I can't find any complaint whatsoever about Oracle either. What a coincidence.
Yes and Al Jazeera never calls Obama a Kenyan tyrant. So they must be biased.
Mueller is a paid troll, who earns his money by generating click bait for whichever company pays him. Not too hot on declaring his interests while doing so, unfortunately. It wouldn't surprise me if "Corrections" was in fact the man himself. He had a soft spot for Groklaw also.
A troll is somebody who posts online just to rile people up. So no that’s not true of Mueller.
Click bait requires having ads to benefit from. FOSS Patents doesn’t, so that’s not true.
Clearly, you seem to think any string of words shooting from your mouth is legitimate. I don’t agree. You sound as intellectually bankrupt as most of the fomenting rage clowns who follow PJ’s increasing ridiculous rants on Groklaw.
Ummm... AFAIK PJ hasn't posted to Groklaw in a few months now, so no worries about her rant count increasing.
As for Al Jazeera they've had a complaint or two about Obama and US policy so no idea why you thought that supported your point. On the other hand I'll challenge you to find even a single sentence disparaging Microsoft in any way in his years of posts at FOSSPatents.
Albright?
Not misinterpretation of fair use but instead copyrightability. According to reports the Appeals Court isn't questioning "fair use" at this point but instead whether API's can be copyrighted in the first place. If it rules they can be then the next step would apparently be another trial by the original court to determine if Google properly made "fair use" of the copyrighted material.
By the way this appeal is still vaguely attached to Oracle's patent infringement claims. If not for the original patent complaints Oracle could not have appealed to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
Wassup?
Alsup.
Alsup appears to have used the points used in fair use cases (Sony and Sega) to rule on the validity of Oracle's copyright, as was noted by Federal Circuit Judge Plager who was reported to have said repeatedly, that Alsup was confused or misunderstood the law.
Google's attorney was asked to stop citing the Sony and Sega fair use cases as they did not relate to the issue at hand, i.e. the validity of copyright.
Any issues regarding patents were withdrawn long ago.
A) Microsoft actions are always proper and above board. It's companies like Google, Samsung, Apple and HTC causing problems.
What happened to Motorola?
It's good to see you finally accept that Motorola IS Google.
Ah. forgot to include Motorola too! Thanks for the reminder. Dang, Microsoft really is the only good guy.
Correct, but it was because of the original patent infringement claims that the appeal was accepted by the 9th Circuit.
Troll (noun): a person who submits a deliberately provocative posting.
Click Bait: any content or feature, within a website, designed specifically to gain attention or encourage others to link to the website.
Paid PR .ne. objective analysis or reporting. Mueller has form making controversial assertions and not attributing financial interest while doing so. And in retrospect, getting things royally wrong along the way, as I've cited here and which simple searches on the Internet ably demonstrate. It's a direct effect of his own business model. But thanks for telling me what I think, and having had 35 years in the software industry, as being recognised by you as achieving intellectual bankruptcy.
Chrome Apps do not feature in this case, but looks like Marc Andressen said some prophetic things about Windows becoming a layer of badly debugged device drivers back in the mid 1990s when the scripting language was called LocoScript. Now that's foresight, 20 years ahead of its eventual realisation. Android may become the same thing...
Troll (noun): a person who submits a deliberately provocative posting.
Click Bait: any content or feature, within a website, designed specifically to gain attention or encourage others to link to the website.
Paid PR .ne. objective analysis or reporting. Mueller has form making controversial assertions and not attributing financial interest while doing so. And in retrospect, getting things royally wrong along the way, as I've cited here and which simple searches on the Internet ably demonstrate. It's a direct effect of his own business model. But thanks for telling me what I think, and having had 35 years in the software industry, as being recognised by you as achieving intellectual bankruptcy.
Chrome Apps do not feature in this case, but looks like Marc Andressen said some prophetic things about Windows becoming a layer of badly debugged device drivers back in the mid 1990s when the scripting language was called LocoScript. Now that's foresight, 20 years ahead of its eventual realisation. Android may become the same thing...
So you got any facts to back up your opinions?
Perhaps a transcript of the case, showing the parts you claim Mueller misreported.
It seems the case will be overturned due to Alsup confusing fair use with copyright validity in his ruling much as Mueller's opinion pointed out months ago
What are you talking about? LG and Samsung didn't pop up overnight and start making handsets the other day. They've been making them for years.
So you got any facts to back up your opinions?
Perhaps a transcript of the case, showing the parts you claim Mueller misreported.
It seems the case will be overturned due to Alsup confusing fair use with copyright validity in his ruling much as Mueller's opinion pointed out months ago
Sure. Have a gander at http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120724125504129, which runs through a whole laundry list of his assertions and 32 specific citations along the way. And more at http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120724125504129. There's a further 18 articles relating to the case cited at the end of http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=OracleGoogle - the top of which documents all the components submitted to the case by both parties.
The appeal is a bit of a hop, skip and jump, with Oracle trying to assert that APIs are copyrightable entities, then if they prevail asking the court to rule on fair use, and then hoping the end result leads to some form of royalty stream. Nothing to do with Chrome Apps of course, which is the red herring in the base article.
In the final analysis, my personal guess is that Oracle will waste money on lawyers and see no related income at the end of this process. And that Mueller will get it wrong, as he did last time. Time will tell.
It's going to be difficult to award damages since Google doesn’t profit off of Android directly, the OS is free.
blah blah blah
The appeal is a bit of a hop, skip and jump, with Oracle trying to assert that APIs are copyrightable entities, then if they prevail asking the court to rule on fair use, and then hoping the end result leads to some form of royalty stream. Nothing to do with Chrome Apps of course, which is the red herring in the base article.
In the final analysis, my personal guess is that Oracle will waste money on lawyers and see no related income at the end of this process. And that Mueller will get it wrong, as he did last time. Time will tell.
Actually "the case" as in the ongoing appeals court case which is occurring now in which Federal Circuit Judge Plager was reported to have said repeatedly, that Alsup was confused or misunderstood the law, which negates most of the opinions in your links.
Don't bother linking to that Groklaw site, ever since SCO ended when they had some sort of relevance, it descended into a downward spiral of self absorbed, self-righteous circlejerkery.
The crap that is posted there post-SCO is worthless trash.
?Oracle don't care about the money, this is about bending Google over their own hypocrisy and ripping out Android's proprietary heart by enforcing a gpl licence.