Yeah. That was kind of a shock. In the past, it just seemed like they were looking for reasons to dock points from Apple's repairability ratings. In this case, I don't know, it seems almost generous in comparison. One can easily get inside and swap parts, but many of the parts have no alternative source, at least not yet.
If you run the Blackmagic speed test, what is the rating you get for the 7200 rpm drive?
~97MB/s both in and out.
Just for giggles I moved the video to another drive -- a Sonnet 4-bay eSATA enclosure set up as RAID10. It's connected to the Mac through a Sonnet PCIe eSATA card. That rig still only managed writes of under 100MB/s and reads only improved to 130MB/s. That surprised me. I expected better out of a striped pair of Seagates.
What's really weird is that the files play when coming off the RAID, but they stutter and play at reduced speed (eg. a 10 second file takes about 15 seconds to play through). Then there's the really, REALLY weird part: the video continues playing AFTER the QuickTime Player progress bar has reached the end! It's like the progress bar is moving at actual speed whereas the video is slowed down, so the progress bar finishes before the video! Is that screwy or what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Also, if you open the inspector window in Quicktime, what does it say is the bitrate for the video?
Depends on the item. One with just animated characters is 500MB/s, whereas one with lots of fast-moving video is 1.2GB/s!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
You can also try using ProRes 4444, 422, 422LT and 422Proxy at 1080p and see how they run.
No I can't, because (A) I'm not the one generating the video files, and (B) other devices in the workflow specifically REQUIRE the Animation codec with no i-frames.
Just for giggles I moved the video to another drive -- a Sonnet 4-bay eSATA enclosure set up as RAID10. It's connected to the Mac through a Sonnet PCIe eSATA card. That rig still only managed writes of under 100MB/s and reads only improved to 130MB/s. That surprised me. I expected better out of a striped pair of Seagates.
What's really weird is that the files play when coming off the RAID, but they stutter and play at reduced speed (eg. a 10 second file takes about 15 seconds to play through). Then there's the really, REALLY weird part: the video continues playing AFTER the QuickTime Player progress bar has reached the end! It's like the progress bar is moving at actual speed whereas the video is slowed down, so the progress bar finishes before the video! Is that screwy or what?
Yeah that's a bit strange with Quicktime. I don't suppose it has much option but to keep playing the frames and just wait until the drive has sent them. Drive speeds vary with platter density. Older 7200 rpm drives are slower than new high capacity ones so the RAID could easily be using older drives that would normally get 50-60MB/s on their own.
Depends on the item. One with just animated characters is 500MB/s, whereas one with lots of fast-moving video is 1.2GB/s!!!
The bitrates in the inspector are in bits/s whereas the drive speeds are bytes/s so the you'd divide those by 8. That should make them 62.5MB/s and 150MB/s average.
The drive benchmarks tend to show peak sequential reads/writes though and it's not going to be the case that it will always perform at peak. SSDs are cheap enough now. For something as critical to workflow, you can even get a lower capacity one to use as a drive for reading the files:
It'll only go up to 3Gbps (375MB/s and there are some other overheads) as the old Mac Pro used an older SATA connector but that should be fast enough to play back the files.
No I can't, because (A) I'm not the one generating the video files, and (B) other devices in the workflow specifically REQUIRE the Animation codec with no i-frames.
I was just meaning as a test on the clips you have to see which bitrate will playback smoothly on the drive to give you an idea of what the maximum your setup can work with.
Another thing to try would be putting the files on a RAM disk, there's an app linked on this page to create one easily:
You have 10GB of RAM so you can try making one big enough to host one or two files and check your playback speed. If your laptop had 16GB of RAM, you could do it there too or just replace the internal drive with an SSD.
I don't understand how you don't come to $3900, which would be a rounded off number, of course.
You use $3099 as your base.
Then we add the $699 for the monitor you selected.
Then a keyboard and mouse is about $100, depending on whether you're buying wireless models or not.
That adds to $3900. Where's the problem? It's what I said in the first post.
But now, you're changing the game here. Stick to your first selection for a monitor. And if you're going to buy a Mac Pro, buy a real keyboard and mouse, not some cheap junk. One for FCP specifically, is over $100 by itself, and some are more, depending on how high a quality model you really need. Apple's is considered to be very good, and I agree with that.
Okay, you're right. What threw me is that I never intended to use the $700 monitor as the baseline since the iMac can't do 4K and always figured keyboard+mouse was $140 since that's the price from Apple.
Either way the Mac Pro is still a decent deal vs the iMac and not some idiotic or vainglorious purchase as you assert.
You have 10GB of RAM so you can try making one big enough to host one or two files and check your playback speed. If your laptop had 16GB of RAM, you could do it there too or just replace the internal drive with an SSD.
RAM disk is the way to go to test a smaller file. Then you'll know if IO is the issue vs something else.
Its a moderate shame that the new Mac pro only has 4 ram slots.
I was just meaning as a test on the clips you have to see which bitrate will playback smoothly on the drive to give you an idea of what the maximum your setup can work with.
Another thing to try would be putting the files on a RAM disk, there's an app linked on this page to create one easily:
You have 10GB of RAM so you can try making one big enough to host one or two files and check your playback speed. If your laptop had 16GB of RAM, you could do it there too or just replace the internal drive with an SSD.
RAM disk is the way to go to test a smaller file. Then you'll know if IO is the issue vs something else.
Its a moderate shame that the new Mac pro only has 4 ram slots.
Fascinating. I have never used a RAM disk but now I want to set one up and give is a go. Any sites that show real world performance comparisons?
RAM disks is how we used to supercharge database access. Of course those were expensive PCIe cards with battery and flash backup incase power went out.
Personally I'd still get the Mac Pro for your use with the quad core and upgrade to the D700. There will simply be things you can do on that that you cannot on the iMac. Like with the mini you may find that the iMacs you buy today simply will not hold up to the use you will have for tomorrow.
Thanks for prodding me to think again; I needed it. As I haven't ordered yet, I have some time to weigh options again.
Spent the past few days really working in FCPX and found myself wondering how much of a boost the hex with D700's would be. I will not be going to 4K in the next couple of years (just bought a nice full HD cam), but I do like to play with some effects, which send the machine into rendering for a while. Compressor has easier to configure distributive rendering now so that is nice; can keep the current iMac around to help out.
Then I spent some time looking for a decent display. Sadly, where I live there are not many shops that have display displays (sorry, I had to!) and the ones that do don't offer a wide variety, with the vast majority being cheaper ones or just 1920x1080. I want something on par with the current iMac, but hopefully with even less gloss.
Online I saw a few from BenQ and Asus that are 27" and WQHD (same pixel count as the iMac).
This one looks interesting, but I can't find a demo model within 200 miles.
Thanks for prodding me to think again; I needed it. As I haven't ordered yet, I have some time to weigh options again.
...
I want something on par with the current iMac, but hopefully with even less gloss.
Try using your iMac in target display mode with one of your mini's and see if you like that.
You're short on space and want to keep the 27" iMac around anyway...I have the logitech K760 keyboard that I share between my MBP and Mini. It can remain paired with three computers which is sometimes handier than remoting into another machine...
Try using your iMac in target display mode with one of your mini's and see if you like that.
You're short on space and want to keep the 27" iMac around anyway...I have the logitech K760 keyboard that I share between my MBP and Mini. It can remain paired with three computers which is sometimes handier than remoting into another machine...
I knew TDM was possible but had never actually tried it. Had just used share display, which has severe lag at times but for my uses worked well enough. Remote Desktop was a little better.
TDM is crystal clear!
Today I actually looked at Logitec keyboards at a shop before I saw your message. Does your keyboard toggle TDM correctly? The Apple support page you sent me to of course says that non Apple boards might not work...
I didn't see that! Loads on my iMac, but the vid just keeps loading and reloading on my iPad.
Hence the semicolon (no Flash installed).
The price in Japan is double the price in the US. Major Bummer.
That's preposterous. I know CE are more expensive here in Europe compared to the States, but double? Or about, I presume. Can importing it be cheaper? A friend bringing it over? Or will it be taxed anyway, negating the hassle.
Amazon Japan has it for about $120. I'm still looking for another dealer. Usually things aren't bad here, but every now and then you get a greedy importer that then only deals through a limited number of outlets, keeping the price high.
Will consider getting a a new Airport device (called AirMac here in Japan because of some reason).
Amazon Japan has it for about $120. I'm still looking for another dealer. Usually things aren't bad here, but every now and then you get a greedy importer that then only deals through a limited number of outlets, keeping the price high.
Will consider getting a a new Airport device (called AirMac here in Japan because of some reason).
Ah, ok, hope you'll find a better deal.
Strange, 'AirMac'. I wish they would make one, a Mac in the Air. So I can store all my iTunes Media in there, accessible from anywhere (AnyAir?) in my home and over cellular if needed. Play videos at a friends' house over their WiFi. So, I guess, basically, 'iTunes in the Air'.
My daily head bashing and flip-flopping over which computer to get ended today: I dove head first and ordered a Mac Pro 6-core, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage, D700s. Now starts the daily head bashing over how to pay for it. FinallyI can get back to work and have a couple of projects ready for the new Render Beast (genus and species pending) when it arrives some time next month (very open ended delivery date: February).
Strange, 'AirMac'. I wish they would make one, a Mac in the Air. So I can store all my iTunes Media in there, accessible from anywhere (AnyAir?) in my home and over cellular if needed. Play videos at a friends' house over their WiFi. So, I guess, basically, 'iTunes in the Air'.
My shop is checking to see if they can order it; they used to deal with that importer but ...
AirPort is already registered in Japan, if memory serves, thus the name change. When I first heard AirMac, though, I thought it was some kind of diet burger at McDonald's, as if that is possible. Speaking of burgers, I think I'll have dinner at Mos Burger tonight...
My daily head bashing and flip-flopping over which computer to get ended today: I dove head first and ordered a Mac Pro 6-core, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage, D700s. <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Now starts the daily head bashing over how to pay for it. </span>
<img alt="8-)" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/1cool.gif" style="line-height:1.4em;">
FinallyI can get back to work and have a couple of projects ready for the new Render Beast (genus and species pending) when it arrives some time next month (very open ended delivery date: February).
YES! You did it! Cool, and D700, 1TB, 6-core...all good man, all good. Boy are you in for a treat. I understand from last years' iMac waiting discussion your large storage is external anyway, so no direct need for even more purchases? Anyhoo, congrats on the decision making; when dabbling on what to get it always is a good thing to do and secondly you somehow feel 'relieved of duty' when you hit that Submit button. Enjoy.
My daily head bashing and flip-flopping over which computer to get ended today: I dove head first and ordered a Mac Pro 6-core, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage, D700s. Now starts the daily head bashing over how to pay for it. FinallyI can get back to work and have a couple of projects ready for the new Render Beast (genus and species pending) when it arrives some time next month (very open ended delivery date: February).
Comments
I'll be news my TV as a monitor
If you run the Blackmagic speed test, what is the rating you get for the 7200 rpm drive?
~97MB/s both in and out.
Just for giggles I moved the video to another drive -- a Sonnet 4-bay eSATA enclosure set up as RAID10. It's connected to the Mac through a Sonnet PCIe eSATA card. That rig still only managed writes of under 100MB/s and reads only improved to 130MB/s. That surprised me. I expected better out of a striped pair of Seagates.
What's really weird is that the files play when coming off the RAID, but they stutter and play at reduced speed (eg. a 10 second file takes about 15 seconds to play through). Then there's the really, REALLY weird part: the video continues playing AFTER the QuickTime Player progress bar has reached the end! It's like the progress bar is moving at actual speed whereas the video is slowed down, so the progress bar finishes before the video! Is that screwy or what?
Also, if you open the inspector window in Quicktime, what does it say is the bitrate for the video?
You can also try using ProRes 4444, 422, 422LT and 422Proxy at 1080p and see how they run.
No I can't, because (A) I'm not the one generating the video files, and (B) other devices in the workflow specifically REQUIRE the Animation codec with no i-frames.
Yeah that's a bit strange with Quicktime. I don't suppose it has much option but to keep playing the frames and just wait until the drive has sent them. Drive speeds vary with platter density. Older 7200 rpm drives are slower than new high capacity ones so the RAID could easily be using older drives that would normally get 50-60MB/s on their own.
The bitrates in the inspector are in bits/s whereas the drive speeds are bytes/s so the you'd divide those by 8. That should make them 62.5MB/s and 150MB/s average.
The drive benchmarks tend to show peak sequential reads/writes though and it's not going to be the case that it will always perform at peak. SSDs are cheap enough now. For something as critical to workflow, you can even get a lower capacity one to use as a drive for reading the files:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQ8RHJ2
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-EVO-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7TE500BW/dp/B00E3W19MO
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7PD256BW/dp/B009NB8WRU
If you have a free internal drive slot in the Mac Pro, it can sit in one with an adaptor or there are desktop models:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-EVO-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7TE250KW/dp/B00E391E7W
It'll only go up to 3Gbps (375MB/s and there are some other overheads) as the old Mac Pro used an older SATA connector but that should be fast enough to play back the files.
I was just meaning as a test on the clips you have to see which bitrate will playback smoothly on the drive to give you an idea of what the maximum your setup can work with.
Another thing to try would be putting the files on a RAM disk, there's an app linked on this page to create one easily:
http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/how-to-create-a-4gbs-ram-disk-in-mac-os-x/
You have 10GB of RAM so you can try making one big enough to host one or two files and check your playback speed. If your laptop had 16GB of RAM, you could do it there too or just replace the internal drive with an SSD.
I don't understand how you don't come to $3900, which would be a rounded off number, of course.
You use $3099 as your base.
Then we add the $699 for the monitor you selected.
Then a keyboard and mouse is about $100, depending on whether you're buying wireless models or not.
That adds to $3900. Where's the problem? It's what I said in the first post.
But now, you're changing the game here. Stick to your first selection for a monitor. And if you're going to buy a Mac Pro, buy a real keyboard and mouse, not some cheap junk. One for FCP specifically, is over $100 by itself, and some are more, depending on how high a quality model you really need. Apple's is considered to be very good, and I agree with that.
Okay, you're right. What threw me is that I never intended to use the $700 monitor as the baseline since the iMac can't do 4K and always figured keyboard+mouse was $140 since that's the price from Apple.
Either way the Mac Pro is still a decent deal vs the iMac and not some idiotic or vainglorious purchase as you assert.
Another thing to try would be putting the files on a RAM disk, there's an app linked on this page to create one easily:
http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/how-to-create-a-4gbs-ram-disk-in-mac-os-x/
You have 10GB of RAM so you can try making one big enough to host one or two files and check your playback speed. If your laptop had 16GB of RAM, you could do it there too or just replace the internal drive with an SSD.
RAM disk is the way to go to test a smaller file. Then you'll know if IO is the issue vs something else.
Its a moderate shame that the new Mac pro only has 4 ram slots.
Fascinating. I have never used a RAM disk but now I want to set one up and give is a go. Any sites that show real world performance comparisons?
Fascinating. I have never used a RAM disk but now I want to set one up and give is a go. Any sites that show real world performance comparisons?
http://www.pcper.com/news/Storage/AMD-Launches-Radeon-RAMDisk-Free-6GB-Disks-AMD-Memory
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=355016
RAM disks is how we used to supercharge database access. Of course those were expensive PCIe cards with battery and flash backup incase power went out.
Personally I'd still get the Mac Pro for your use with the quad core and upgrade to the D700. There will simply be things you can do on that that you cannot on the iMac. Like with the mini you may find that the iMacs you buy today simply will not hold up to the use you will have for tomorrow.
Thanks for prodding me to think again; I needed it. As I haven't ordered yet, I have some time to weigh options again.
Spent the past few days really working in FCPX and found myself wondering how much of a boost the hex with D700's would be. I will not be going to 4K in the next couple of years (just bought a nice full HD cam), but I do like to play with some effects, which send the machine into rendering for a while. Compressor has easier to configure distributive rendering now so that is nice; can keep the current iMac around to help out.
Then I spent some time looking for a decent display. Sadly, where I live there are not many shops that have display displays (sorry, I had to!) and the ones that do don't offer a wide variety, with the vast majority being cheaper ones or just 1920x1080. I want something on par with the current iMac, but hopefully with even less gloss.
Online I saw a few from BenQ and Asus that are 27" and WQHD (same pixel count as the iMac).
This one looks interesting, but I can't find a demo model within 200 miles.
http://www.benq.com/product/monitor/BL2710PT/
It has the following connections:
D-Sub/ DVI/ DP/ HDMI/ Headphone jack /Line-in
What is best for connecting a Mac? Is there a cable that connects mini DP to DP?
This one has a built-in card reader, and slightly different specs that I have little clue about.
http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors_Projectors/PA279Q/
Can you guys suggest any displays?
Thanks for prodding me to think again; I needed it. As I haven't ordered yet, I have some time to weigh options again.
...
I want something on par with the current iMac, but hopefully with even less gloss.
Try using your iMac in target display mode with one of your mini's and see if you like that.
You're short on space and want to keep the 27" iMac around anyway...I have the logitech K760 keyboard that I share between my MBP and Mini. It can remain paired with three computers which is sometimes handier than remoting into another machine...
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3924?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
Try using your iMac in target display mode with one of your mini's and see if you like that.
You're short on space and want to keep the 27" iMac around anyway...I have the logitech K760 keyboard that I share between my MBP and Mini. It can remain paired with three computers which is sometimes handier than remoting into another machine...
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3924?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
I knew TDM was possible but had never actually tried it. Had just used share display, which has severe lag at times but for my uses worked well enough. Remote Desktop was a little better.
TDM is crystal clear!
Today I actually looked at Logitec keyboards at a shop before I saw your message. Does your keyboard toggle TDM correctly? The Apple support page you sent me to of course says that non Apple boards might not work...
Have you looked at this one from Kanex?
http://www.kanexlive.com/keyboard
Most of the time I use the mini keyboard, but there are some tasks that I want a full keyboard for.
I had that lag as well. Got a new Airport, problem solved.
Cool keyboard! And the company has humor too; I don't have Flash installed:
I had that lag as well. Got a new Airport, problem solved.
Cool keyboard! And the company has humor too; I don't have Flash installed:
I didn't see that! Loads on my iMac, but the vid just keeps loading and reloading on my iPad.
The price in Japan is double the price in the US. Major Bummer.
Hence the semicolon (no Flash installed).
That's preposterous. I know CE are more expensive here in Europe compared to the States, but double? Or about, I presume. Can importing it be cheaper? A friend bringing it over? Or will it be taxed anyway, negating the hassle.
Amazon Japan has it for about $120. I'm still looking for another dealer. Usually things aren't bad here, but every now and then you get a greedy importer that then only deals through a limited number of outlets, keeping the price high.
Will consider getting a a new Airport device (called AirMac here in Japan because of some reason).
Ah, ok, hope you'll find a better deal.
Strange, 'AirMac'. I wish they would make one, a Mac in the Air. So I can store all my iTunes Media in there, accessible from anywhere (AnyAir?) in my home and over cellular if needed. Play videos at a friends' house over their WiFi. So, I guess, basically, 'iTunes in the Air'.
My daily head bashing and flip-flopping over which computer to get ended today: I dove head first and ordered a Mac Pro 6-core, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage, D700s. Now starts the daily head bashing over how to pay for it.
FinallyI can get back to work and have a couple of projects ready for the new Render Beast (genus and species pending) when it arrives some time next month (very open ended delivery date: February).
Ah, ok, hope you'll find a better deal.
Strange, 'AirMac'. I wish they would make one, a Mac in the Air. So I can store all my iTunes Media in there, accessible from anywhere (AnyAir?) in my home and over cellular if needed. Play videos at a friends' house over their WiFi. So, I guess, basically, 'iTunes in the Air'.
My shop is checking to see if they can order it; they used to deal with that importer but ...
AirPort is already registered in Japan, if memory serves, thus the name change. When I first heard AirMac, though, I thought it was some kind of diet burger at McDonald's, as if that is possible. Speaking of burgers, I think I'll have dinner at Mos Burger tonight...
YES! You did it! Cool, and D700, 1TB, 6-core...all good man, all good. Boy are you in for a treat. I understand from last years' iMac waiting discussion your large storage is external anyway, so no direct need for even more purchases? Anyhoo, congrats on the decision making; when dabbling on what to get it always is a good thing to do and secondly you somehow feel 'relieved of duty' when you hit that Submit button. Enjoy.
My daily head bashing and flip-flopping over which computer to get ended today: I dove head first and ordered a Mac Pro 6-core, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage, D700s. Now starts the daily head bashing over how to pay for it.
FinallyI can get back to work and have a couple of projects ready for the new Render Beast (genus and species pending) when it arrives some time next month (very open ended delivery date: February).
Do you really need that firstborn?