I think some, if not most, would be better served by a user-upgradable SSD, but alas.
I wonder how much of a cheaper upgrade this CPU option will turn out to be.
Not very much, the E5 Xeons are horribly expensive. The 8 core is $1723 and the 12 core is $2614. Thats wholesale price from Intel. I have seen the 12 core on amazon for $3400. Having said that though I am patient. I watch cpu prices and just like the quad cores in my current mac pro were $1200 they dropped to about $200 when I bought mine and upgraded my current mac pro from a dual 2 core to a dual 4 core.
I dunno. It's possible, but it seemed that getting OS X support on graphics cards that only required a firmware change was hard enough, do you think nVidia would not only do that, but go as far as making custom graphics boards too?
Apple is an OEM card maker for both nvidia and amd. They make there own upgrades just like in the past for Mac pros. Im sure if there is enough call for them they will bring out upgrades like in the past. Im running an apple 5770 radeon upgrade in my current mac pro right now. But like was said be prepared for sticker shock and to have your wallet thinned substantially. Remember you will be buying 2 cards.
For the same reason pickup trucks have only one truck bed. You can order a bigger truck bed, but it makes no sense to have more than one.
Since drive size is not unlimited, at a bare minimum an extra drive means doubling the internal storage capacity, possibly to the point of negating the need for high-speed outboard. That "makes sense" to me.
Also, since Pro Tools strongly discourages putting sessions on the system drive, having a second internal drive may mean being able to do a remote gig with just a li'l pocket drive for backups rather than having to lug around a big, heavy, noisy, power-hungry, high-speed outboard recording array.
User accessible means you can get to it easily without violating any covered screws or adhesive. It also means you could upgrade to a large PCIe flash-storage device with something from Apple. It doesn't have to mean you could upgrade to a third-party flash-storage device.
I'd think if you can change it for an Apple SSD there would be much to prevent a third party SSD. If there is something peculiar about Apple's version, someone, somewhere will offer a work around. Look at Trim Enabler for MBPs running non Apple SSDs as an example. However, even if that were true and I can only use an Apple SSD I would be fine with that, just so long as I can upgrade it. I selected the 256 TB simply on the basis that we will see SSD prices fall. Of course I want 1 TB but I can live with 256 TB in the short term. What configuration did you select?
I am thrilled to learn there is a possibility of updating the CPUs in the future too.
Not very much, the E5 Xeons are horribly expensive. The 8 core is $1723 and the 12 core is $2614. Thats wholesale price from Intel. I have seen the 12 core on amazon for $3400. Having said that though I am patient. I watch cpu prices and just like the quad cores in my current mac pro were $1200 they dropped to about $200 when I bought mine and upgraded my current mac pro from a dual 2 core to a dual 4 core.
they will come down.
I think, RAM, GPU, storage and CPU upgrades are pretty nice options to have down the road when prices fall. That has always been the fun of owning Mac towers.
For the same reason pickup trucks have only one truck bed. You can order a bigger truck bed, but it makes no sense to have more than one.
Except it makes total sense to have more than one PCI-E SSD slot if it can fit in the existing chassis.
Given the existing SSD is put in front of one of the GPU boards and two two boards are the same GPUs I see no insurmountable reason why Apple couldn't have given users another slot in front of the other GPU. Going from four internal drive bays (plus multiple internal PCI slots) to one internal SSD storage slot is by far the biggest limitation in the new design.
Yes the SSDs offer incredible performance unattainable by mechanical hard drives and the Thunderbolt 2 interface is very fast, but you can never have enough storage and one slot is going to force most people to have to get external storage to supplement the maximum of 1 TB currently offered. An option for a second internal SSD and up to 2 TB internal storage would've gone a long way towards easing the transition from spinning storage to SSDs.
Is this Apple's attempt at building in some sort of upgrade path for a Mac Pro revision down the track?
As for your delivery, I'd turn in early. Wouldn't want to be woken up by the delivery and having your wife complain you still haven't taken a shower at 3pm .
Hehe ... when this thing arrives I will probably not be eating or sleeping for several days, let alone showering. I will grab a bottle of Scotch though ...
The Mac is with UPS not FedEx, sadly. It will be late in the day I have no doubt. I always use FedEx if humanly possible, they are so much more reliable than UPS. My new TB Monitor arrived early with FedEx, UPS for some reason are delivering the Mac Pro and are late ...what a shock ... par for the course. :no:
2) It would be amazing to get over 2000 MBps but I wonder why they didn't do that if it's possible. To leave something for a future update? The technology wasn't ready for it? Cost? Other limitations that wouldn't have increased the performance to a point that would make it worthwhile?
Sure, they could've gone 'all the way' if the tech is there but of curse there would be a much needed reason to do so. If copying a 10GB file from the downloads folder to the desktop was 'basically instantaneous' it doesn't look like there isn't much need for anything faster than that.
Can't wait for Anand to post an in-depth review.
Here's a company that has created a 16-die NAND, which is a big deal as it currently is all 8-die, or so I've read: http://hlnand.com/site/ID/120403
3) I think we're at a point again, but this time with mobile devices, where performance of the system is hindered by storage. I wish they would do an "SSD on a chip" for their iDevices. Even just two stacked chips with a little controller could nearly double read/write performance, I'd think.
But then the limiting factor would be that old USB2 plug, right?
<h1 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);height:auto;margin:0px 40px 0px 100px;padding-bottom:30px;width:600px;">[SIZE=16px]This is interesting. What does this tell us?[/SIZE]</h1>
<h1 id="user_main-title" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);height:auto;margin:0px 40px 0px 100px;padding-bottom:30px;width:600px;">Mac Pro (Late 2013): Removing and installing flash storage - [SIZE=18px]http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6061?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US[/SIZE]</h1>
Just as I thought, user replaceable SSD. So the article is wrong. I cannot understand why the articles here so often have incorrect info.
Not only do Apple allow SSD replacements, they even give you instructions.
But it might still be the case that it's a custom connector and you need to buy the (presumably bigger) replacement from Apple. But when I search the Apple Store for Mac Pro Upgrade there are no solid state drives for separate sale (yet) - except SSDs for the old Mac Pro.
Apple is an OEM card maker for both nvidia and amd. They make there own upgrades just like in the past for Mac pros. Im sure if there is enough call for them they will bring out upgrades like in the past. Im running an apple 5770 radeon upgrade in my current mac pro right now. But like was said be prepared for sticker shock and to have your wallet thinned substantially. Remember you will be buying 2 cards.
What I was replying to seemed to suggest a third party upgrade.
The designs for previous graphics cards sold by Apple looked the same as the PC versions, and yet there weren't very many such upgrades offered. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple mostly added their own flash to already made cards purchased from nVidia and AMD. The only visible difference seemed to be Apple branded packaging and instructions.
CPU and RAM upgradable.. SSD and Video upgradable if/when 3rd parties release products for the custom form-factor and release solid drivers / support.
I can TOTALLY see an nVidia 3rd party card being created, pushing their CUDA drivers. The GPU upgrades will likely cost a left nut.. but certainly and likely possible.
This system seems a lot more upgradable than everyone was making it. No large storage bays,.. so what.. most professionals goto external storage anyway. As long as we're going to see CPU, RAM, and eventually SSD and GPU upgrades... those are the 4 most important areas IMO..
I don't see Nvidia touching it as Apple determines the contract and most likely they've exclusively chosen AMD for it's HSA focus and marriage to OpenCL.
Sure, they could've gone 'all the way' if the tech is there but of curse there would be a much needed reason to do so. If copying a 10GB file from the downloads folder to the desktop was 'basically instantaneous' it doesn't look like there isn't much need for anything faster than that.
Can't wait for Anand to post an in-depth review.
Here's a company that has created a 16-die NAND, which is a big deal as it currently is all 8-die, or so I've read: http://hlnand.com/site/ID/120403
But then the limiting factor would be that old USB2 plug, right?
A SSD upgrade would've made the delivery into next year, which you didn't want. Source
That's true about the delivery date, but I was comforted by the knowledge I could get the 256 GIG, upgrading with far cheaper parts fairly soon. If I'd been told categorically there was never going to be an upgrade path I'd have had some serious heart burn. By the way, i have only one, small gripe with the design, that of the single SSD connection. Dual would have been better and it's hard to see there would not have been room. A dual striped 1 TB drives would be sweet. I am fine with external for data but I like my apps and utilities on board and then some space for caches.
Daft as it sounds after the living with the last Mac Pro, I can see me using this beast as a semi portable. I have monitors in other rooms for MacBook Pros and to carry the nMP to a monitor, if I happen to want to do some work in another part of the house, seems eminently doable. I'd even take it on road trips with me. :smokey:
<h1 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);height:auto;margin:0px 40px 0px 100px;padding-bottom:30px;width:600px;">[SIZE=16px]This is interesting. What does this tell us?[/SIZE]</h1>
<h1 id="user_main-title" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);height:auto;margin:0px 40px 0px 100px;padding-bottom:30px;width:600px;">Mac Pro (Late 2013): Removing and installing flash storage - [SIZE=18px]http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6061?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US[/SIZE]</h1>
Thank you for clearing that up once and for all. It is as most of us understood. It is amazing that when i pointed out Apple had the words 'User Accessible' next to storage on their own web site I was told, in this thread, i should not read too much into that.
Comments
Not sure Intel makes a solderable version of any full-blown desktop/server CPU
They don't. Xeons all use a socket. This series uses a LGA 2011 socket.
I think some, if not most, would be better served by a user-upgradable SSD, but alas.
I wonder how much of a cheaper upgrade this CPU option will turn out to be.
Not very much, the E5 Xeons are horribly expensive. The 8 core is $1723 and the 12 core is $2614. Thats wholesale price from Intel. I have seen the 12 core on amazon for $3400. Having said that though I am patient. I watch cpu prices and just like the quad cores in my current mac pro were $1200 they dropped to about $200 when I bought mine and upgraded my current mac pro from a dual 2 core to a dual 4 core.
they will come down.
Apple does not sell a 3.7Ghz MacPro (they only have 3.5, 3.0, and 2.7). Does anyone know why do these photos show a 3.7Ghz processors? Anyone?
The quad core is a 3.7 Ghz. So apple does sell one.
Does this mean I can buy the 3.5GHz 6-core model, then in a few years upgrade to 2.7GHz 12-core?
BTW, the photo shows a 3.7GHz cpu while Apple's website shows it as 3.5GHz. And the CPU is made in Costa Rica?!
http://blog.macsales.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/mp13_apart_sckt1.jpg
Edit: Added the image link
Apples website does show a 3.7 Ghz quad core
I dunno. It's possible, but it seemed that getting OS X support on graphics cards that only required a firmware change was hard enough, do you think nVidia would not only do that, but go as far as making custom graphics boards too?
Apple is an OEM card maker for both nvidia and amd. They make there own upgrades just like in the past for Mac pros. Im sure if there is enough call for them they will bring out upgrades like in the past. Im running an apple 5770 radeon upgrade in my current mac pro right now. But like was said be prepared for sticker shock and to have your wallet thinned substantially. Remember you will be buying 2 cards.
For the same reason pickup trucks have only one truck bed. You can order a bigger truck bed, but it makes no sense to have more than one.
Since drive size is not unlimited, at a bare minimum an extra drive means doubling the internal storage capacity, possibly to the point of negating the need for high-speed outboard. That "makes sense" to me.
Also, since Pro Tools strongly discourages putting sessions on the system drive, having a second internal drive may mean being able to do a remote gig with just a li'l pocket drive for backups rather than having to lug around a big, heavy, noisy, power-hungry, high-speed outboard recording array.
I'd think if you can change it for an Apple SSD there would be much to prevent a third party SSD. If there is something peculiar about Apple's version, someone, somewhere will offer a work around. Look at Trim Enabler for MBPs running non Apple SSDs as an example. However, even if that were true and I can only use an Apple SSD I would be fine with that, just so long as I can upgrade it. I selected the 256 TB simply on the basis that we will see SSD prices fall. Of course I want 1 TB but I can live with 256 TB in the short term. What configuration did you select?
I am thrilled to learn there is a possibility of updating the CPUs in the future too.
I think, RAM, GPU, storage and CPU upgrades are pretty nice options to have down the road when prices fall. That has always been the fun of owning Mac towers.
For the same reason pickup trucks have only one truck bed. You can order a bigger truck bed, but it makes no sense to have more than one.
Except it makes total sense to have more than one PCI-E SSD slot if it can fit in the existing chassis.
Given the existing SSD is put in front of one of the GPU boards and two two boards are the same GPUs I see no insurmountable reason why Apple couldn't have given users another slot in front of the other GPU. Going from four internal drive bays (plus multiple internal PCI slots) to one internal SSD storage slot is by far the biggest limitation in the new design.
Yes the SSDs offer incredible performance unattainable by mechanical hard drives and the Thunderbolt 2 interface is very fast, but you can never have enough storage and one slot is going to force most people to have to get external storage to supplement the maximum of 1 TB currently offered. An option for a second internal SSD and up to 2 TB internal storage would've gone a long way towards easing the transition from spinning storage to SSDs.
Is this Apple's attempt at building in some sort of upgrade path for a Mac Pro revision down the track?
Hehe ... when this thing arrives I will probably not be eating or sleeping for several days, let alone showering. I will grab a bottle of Scotch though ...
The Mac is with UPS not FedEx, sadly. It will be late in the day I have no doubt. I always use FedEx if humanly possible, they are so much more reliable than UPS. My new TB Monitor arrived early with FedEx, UPS for some reason are delivering the Mac Pro and are late ...what a shock ... par for the course. :no:
Sure, they could've gone 'all the way' if the tech is there but of curse there would be a much needed reason to do so. If copying a 10GB file from the downloads folder to the desktop was 'basically instantaneous' it doesn't look like there isn't much need for anything faster than that.
Can't wait for Anand to post an in-depth review.
Here's a company that has created a 16-die NAND, which is a big deal as it currently is all 8-die, or so I've read:
http://hlnand.com/site/ID/120403
But then the limiting factor would be that old USB2 plug, right?
A SSD upgrade would've made the delivery into next year, which you didn't want.
Source
This is interesting. What does this tell us?
Mac Pro (Late 2013): Removing and installing flash storage - http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6061?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
Just as I thought, user replaceable SSD. So the article is wrong. I cannot understand why the articles here so often have incorrect info.
This is interesting. What does this tell us?
Mac Pro (Late 2013): Removing and installing flash storage - http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6061?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
Not only do Apple allow SSD replacements, they even give you instructions.
But it might still be the case that it's a custom connector and you need to buy the (presumably bigger) replacement from Apple. But when I search the Apple Store for Mac Pro Upgrade there are no solid state drives for separate sale (yet) - except SSDs for the old Mac Pro.
What I was replying to seemed to suggest a third party upgrade.
The designs for previous graphics cards sold by Apple looked the same as the PC versions, and yet there weren't very many such upgrades offered. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple mostly added their own flash to already made cards purchased from nVidia and AMD. The only visible difference seemed to be Apple branded packaging and instructions.
CPU and RAM upgradable.. SSD and Video upgradable if/when 3rd parties release products for the custom form-factor and release solid drivers / support.
I can TOTALLY see an nVidia 3rd party card being created, pushing their CUDA drivers. The GPU upgrades will likely cost a left nut.. but certainly and likely possible.
This system seems a lot more upgradable than everyone was making it. No large storage bays,.. so what.. most professionals goto external storage anyway. As long as we're going to see CPU, RAM, and eventually SSD and GPU upgrades... those are the 4 most important areas IMO..
I don't see Nvidia touching it as Apple determines the contract and most likely they've exclusively chosen AMD for it's HSA focus and marriage to OpenCL.
That's true about the delivery date, but I was comforted by the knowledge I could get the 256 GIG, upgrading with far cheaper parts fairly soon. If I'd been told categorically there was never going to be an upgrade path I'd have had some serious heart burn. By the way, i have only one, small gripe with the design, that of the single SSD connection. Dual would have been better and it's hard to see there would not have been room. A dual striped 1 TB drives would be sweet. I am fine with external for data but I like my apps and utilities on board and then some space for caches.
Daft as it sounds after the living with the last Mac Pro, I can see me using this beast as a semi portable. I have monitors in other rooms for MacBook Pros and to carry the nMP to a monitor, if I happen to want to do some work in another part of the house, seems eminently doable. I'd even take it on road trips with me. :smokey:
Thank you for clearing that up once and for all. It is as most of us understood. It is amazing that when i pointed out Apple had the words 'User Accessible' next to storage on their own web site I was told, in this thread, i should not read too much into that.
The internet is becoming the main source of all incorrect information! :no: