Carl is finally seeing that Apple spending money on share buy back is not driving the value up, you can not grow revenue streams by spending money on stock buy back and as long as Wall Street believe Apple has not future growth they will continue to hold the stock down. I suspect they Carl will be begin slowly dumping his position at this point.
The value in a stock buy back is not in short terms gains; that was never the argument. Buying back stock increases proportional ownership of each outstanding share, which means value is realised in future earnings growth. Carl was always betting long term in Apple, which few of the decriers seemed to realise.
A little disappointing that he's dropping the action off of a (relatively) small commitment from Apple, though hopefully Apple will continue on the same track.
Thanks! But being so public about his Apple share purchases, being able to publicize when he sells the shares would be great.
He makes his buys public because it serves his interest, which getting control over a company, selling and making it known would not be in his interest since he has so many shared he can not sell in one lot so it will take time or find a large institutional buyer, but letting people know your selling large shares will only drive the price down.
I want to know Carl starts selling even one share of Apple stock! This guy has been allowed to destroy many companies due to his greed and has not been forced to pay for the destruction. This time he encountered a force that had friends to oppose his destructive greed. Goodbye, Carl!! Do not come back!!!!
Yes, making 25% in four months on $3BN should really teach Icahn a lesson....
If he sells Apple it will be documented in his Quarterly holdings report.
My guess is he won't be selling till we see $650-$750.
Dude is not satisfied with 10-20% returns on a winner. He held Netflix until it went up 457%.
He won't be satisified with a 'small' 10-20% return with all the risk he took and the confidence he has in the company.
He took very little risk. He bought apple at the bottom. Whatever you think of the guy (I personally think he is a jerk), he is very good at what he does.
He makes his buys public because it serves his interest, which getting control over a company, selling and making it known would not be in his interest since he has so many shared he can not sell in one lot so it will take time or find a large institutional buyer, but letting people know your selling large shares will only drive the price down.
I know the wordage there is justifiable but it's so distasteful. Tim Cook has worked there for 16 years, Carl just bought some second-hand stock I think it was 6 months ago and it's like he's got his arm round Tim's shoulder talking to him like he's one of them now.
Carl believed in Apple, and put his money ($3BN, as I recall) where his beliefs were. Tim Cook sells his stock as soon as it vests. Hmm...
Is is just me, or is there something perverse about a Carl Icahn who is so greedy and self-obsessed that he thinks Apple's policies should be driven by what does or doesn't make him money?
Does Apple Insider publish each every open letter by every Apple stock holder? Then why bother to publish his letter. Why give the guy a platform?
Broaden your scope a bit. Make fun of his greed and show how pitiful he is. Portray him like Charles Dickens did Scrooge in "A Christmas Carol." Show you know that there's more to life than the latest gadget or newest app.
Icahn only makes money (on this particular deal) if EVERY apple shareholder makes money [there is no greenmail involved, as far as I know]. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being an activist shareholder, and Icahn has enough street cred (and skin in the game) for people (including Apple Insider) to listen to him.
You realize he is up a billion dollars or so on his Apple investment...
EXACTLY! All these posts full of vitriol and trying to read the tea leaves about Icahn's motives can't understand the simple reason for his actions that's right in front of their face. He invested to make some money! And, on paper, he has!
Let's be realistic. Icahn owns around 1% of AAPL. He has a bully pulpit to gain media coverage for his suggestions to Apple, but he sure doesn't have enough influence to force Apple and its board to do something it really doesn't want to do. But it happens that his advocacy of a more aggressive buyback program aligns with the goals of other investors with long positions in AAPL. Dropping his shareholder proposal is exactly what he he says. The accelerated buyback recently has gotten pretty close to what he was seeking. To claim he came out a loser in this is ludicrous. Icahn has all the notoriety he could ever want. And now he's got more money, which is what he continues to want.
Yet this thread has been populated by a host of small-time investing bigmouths on this thread who throw their nickels around like manhole covers and have barely a pot to pee in. In other words, would-be cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.
For all those self-appointed financial geniuses, you're letting your emotions and prejudices about some of Icahn's past financial moves run away with you. It marks you as people who don't make wholly rational financial decisions and beg to be fleeced.
Yes, Tim Cook is a wolf in sheep's clothing. No impatience, no fear. His polite demeanor works in his favor, and I honestly believe he is better at negotiation than even Steve Jobs was.
Thompson
Yes, he certainly showed that Icahn, by doing exactly what Icahn wanted him to do.
The value in a stock buy back is not in short terms gains; that was never the argument. Buying back stock increases proportional ownership of each outstanding share, which means value is realised in future earnings growth. Carl was always betting long term in Apple, which few of the decriers seemed to realise.
A little disappointing that he's dropping the action off of a (relatively) small commitment from Apple, though hopefully Apple will continue on the same track.
The thing is that Apple was never opposed to returning cash to investors. They just have a more deliberate pace to it. The long term play is to gradually return money to investors while not taking on insane amounts of debt or repatriating their off shore holdings and paying huge taxes. Even then, Apple increased their buy back amount and pace when it saw fit. Icahn wanted it higher and faster. That is the big difference. I think a big part of him stepping back is two large institutional investors and ISS putting their two cents in. Apple announced their recent $14b buy back last week and Icahn could have pulled back then but he announced it after ISS put out a release.
Carl is satisified because Tim Cook FINALLY showed some balls and bought back $14B in a two week span. That was a big F'You Wall street and option hacks.
Thanks for your overall support, but not exactly. The $14B buyback wasn't about testosterone, and it wasn't about giving the finger to anybody. It was an opportunity. Imagine how we would feel if the company had dropped $14B two weeks earlier and the market price subsequently dropped as it did. Again, let's take the emotion out of it. When good judgement indicates that the market has erred in underpricing the stock, that's the time to buy.
Comments
Be a bank.
A little disappointing that he's dropping the action off of a (relatively) small commitment from Apple, though hopefully Apple will continue on the same track.
Regular, old-style shareholders celebrating the end of the threat, maybe?
Thanks! But being so public about his Apple share purchases, being able to publicize when he sells the shares would be great.
He makes his buys public because it serves his interest, which getting control over a company, selling and making it known would not be in his interest since he has so many shared he can not sell in one lot so it will take time or find a large institutional buyer, but letting people know your selling large shares will only drive the price down.
Regular, old-style shareholders celebrating the end of the threat, maybe?
Perhaps one day governments will legalize murder under the guise of ``maintaining optimal consumption patterns'' and people can trade in lives, eh?
Carl's such a tool. I'm delighted to see him get embarrassed again.
One thing for sure, he doesn't seem to understand high-tech.
Yes, Carl must be a real tool to be as successful as he is.
Bunch of lazy ass no talent animals called investors!
Leon Trotsky, is that you?
Remind me never tp play poker with Tim Cook.
Icahn raised twice and folded when Apple called...and they still didn't show their hand.
Icahn bought apple in the $400-$450 range four months ago. Apple is now $529. Man, what a loser! No, not Carl, YOU.
Perhaps one day governments will legalize murder under the guise of ``maintaining optimal consumption patterns'' and people can trade in lives, eh?
That certainly has anything to do with what we’re saying¡
I want to know Carl starts selling even one share of Apple stock! This guy has been allowed to destroy many companies due to his greed and has not been forced to pay for the destruction. This time he encountered a force that had friends to oppose his destructive greed. Goodbye, Carl!! Do not come back!!!!
Yes, making 25% in four months on $3BN should really teach Icahn a lesson....
If he sells Apple it will be documented in his Quarterly holdings report.
My guess is he won't be selling till we see $650-$750.
Dude is not satisfied with 10-20% returns on a winner. He held Netflix until it went up 457%.
He won't be satisified with a 'small' 10-20% return with all the risk he took and the confidence he has in the company.
He took very little risk. He bought apple at the bottom. Whatever you think of the guy (I personally think he is a jerk), he is very good at what he does.
He makes his buys public because it serves his interest, which getting control over a company, selling and making it known would not be in his interest since he has so many shared he can not sell in one lot so it will take time or find a large institutional buyer, but letting people know your selling large shares will only drive the price down.
My natural language parser just crashed.
I know the wordage there is justifiable but it's so distasteful. Tim Cook has worked there for 16 years, Carl just bought some second-hand stock I think it was 6 months ago and it's like he's got his arm round Tim's shoulder talking to him like he's one of them now.
Carl believed in Apple, and put his money ($3BN, as I recall) where his beliefs were. Tim Cook sells his stock as soon as it vests. Hmm...
Is is just me, or is there something perverse about a Carl Icahn who is so greedy and self-obsessed that he thinks Apple's policies should be driven by what does or doesn't make him money?
Does Apple Insider publish each every open letter by every Apple stock holder? Then why bother to publish his letter. Why give the guy a platform?
Broaden your scope a bit. Make fun of his greed and show how pitiful he is. Portray him like Charles Dickens did Scrooge in "A Christmas Carol." Show you know that there's more to life than the latest gadget or newest app.
Icahn only makes money (on this particular deal) if EVERY apple shareholder makes money [there is no greenmail involved, as far as I know]. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being an activist shareholder, and Icahn has enough street cred (and skin in the game) for people (including Apple Insider) to listen to him.
You realize he is up a billion dollars or so on his Apple investment...
EXACTLY! All these posts full of vitriol and trying to read the tea leaves about Icahn's motives can't understand the simple reason for his actions that's right in front of their face. He invested to make some money! And, on paper, he has!
Let's be realistic. Icahn owns around 1% of AAPL. He has a bully pulpit to gain media coverage for his suggestions to Apple, but he sure doesn't have enough influence to force Apple and its board to do something it really doesn't want to do. But it happens that his advocacy of a more aggressive buyback program aligns with the goals of other investors with long positions in AAPL. Dropping his shareholder proposal is exactly what he he says. The accelerated buyback recently has gotten pretty close to what he was seeking. To claim he came out a loser in this is ludicrous. Icahn has all the notoriety he could ever want. And now he's got more money, which is what he continues to want.
Yet this thread has been populated by a host of small-time investing bigmouths on this thread who throw their nickels around like manhole covers and have barely a pot to pee in. In other words, would-be cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.
For all those self-appointed financial geniuses, you're letting your emotions and prejudices about some of Icahn's past financial moves run away with you. It marks you as people who don't make wholly rational financial decisions and beg to be fleeced.
Yes, Tim Cook is a wolf in sheep's clothing. No impatience, no fear. His polite demeanor works in his favor, and I honestly believe he is better at negotiation than even Steve Jobs was.
Thompson
Yes, he certainly showed that Icahn, by doing exactly what Icahn wanted him to do.
The value in a stock buy back is not in short terms gains; that was never the argument. Buying back stock increases proportional ownership of each outstanding share, which means value is realised in future earnings growth. Carl was always betting long term in Apple, which few of the decriers seemed to realise.
A little disappointing that he's dropping the action off of a (relatively) small commitment from Apple, though hopefully Apple will continue on the same track.
The thing is that Apple was never opposed to returning cash to investors. They just have a more deliberate pace to it. The long term play is to gradually return money to investors while not taking on insane amounts of debt or repatriating their off shore holdings and paying huge taxes. Even then, Apple increased their buy back amount and pace when it saw fit. Icahn wanted it higher and faster. That is the big difference. I think a big part of him stepping back is two large institutional investors and ISS putting their two cents in. Apple announced their recent $14b buy back last week and Icahn could have pulled back then but he announced it after ISS put out a release.
Carl is satisified because Tim Cook FINALLY showed some balls and bought back $14B in a two week span. That was a big F'You Wall street and option hacks.
Thanks for your overall support, but not exactly. The $14B buyback wasn't about testosterone, and it wasn't about giving the finger to anybody. It was an opportunity. Imagine how we would feel if the company had dropped $14B two weeks earlier and the market price subsequently dropped as it did. Again, let's take the emotion out of it. When good judgement indicates that the market has erred in underpricing the stock, that's the time to buy.