So much for having a larger market share! Apple fans will maintain their product loyalty, so if Android has 94% of the market, it has little rom to grow. It looks like Apple's strategy of taking the higher percentage of the high-end market is working for Apple. Samsung has the bulk of the market, but its profits are very low and it will be difficult for it to increase its price of product without meeting customer resistance.
Apple has sold the following as of 28 December 2013:
451,626,000 iPhones
195,230,000 iPads
How many of these devices are currently active is unknown.
I seem to remember Apple mentioning a number just shy of 500 mil. unique active devices accessing the App store in december 2013 (that’s the number they used to provide the statistic about iOS 7 adoption rate) in the recent earnings call... I could be wrong though.
I'm not convinced by this argument. I think getting market share in developing countries is perhapsmore important in terms of long term growth than developed countries. When someone has a lot of money available to them they might spend it on apps, but they also can overcome any costs with switching between platforms.
When persons with money available to them overcome any costs with switching between platforms they have overwhelmingly chosen in favor of Apple iOS.
On the other hand, people in developing nations who can't afford another phone or can't afford the apps they want can often turn to development, making the apps that have the features they desire and building a community of users to cooperate. That is an important target for any manufacturer I think. Apple's making some good inroads in China, I don't know what the situation with India is, but they clearly feel like developing markets are also very important.
There is no evidence that the developing world is producing software engineers in mass numbers to produce the apps they can't afford.
When persons with money available to them overcome any costs with switching between platforms they have overwhelmingly chosen in favor of Apple iOS.
Whether or not that's true (I haven't really seen the numbers) the fact is that people with plenty of spare cash can afford to buy into any competitor with little notice. Look at Woz for example, how many phones does he carry now!
Quote:
There is no evidence that the developing world is producing software engineers in mass numbers to produce the apps they can't afford.
I don't know what field you work in, but I am an independent contractor and I assure you that the developing world is indeed producing vast numbers of software engineers. India is a particularly long standing example but just look at any app store in China.
Whether or not that's true (I haven't really seen the numbers) the fact is that people with plenty of spare cash can afford to buy into any competitor with little notice. Look at Woz for example, how many phones does he carry now!
Your frame of reference is a single person? One of the richest people in the United States? A person who prides himself on and known for his technology savvy?
I don't know what field you work in, but I am an independent contractor and I assure you that the developing world is indeed producing vast numbers of software engineers. India is a particularly long standing example but just look at any app store in China.
No. The majority of the population of India can't afford a smartphone. While there is a thriving software engineering community in the upper class, the upper class largely favors Apple iOS because they can afford the iPhone and desire the status of having an iPhone.
See... it's not the amount of market share you have... it's what you can achieve with the amount of market share you have.
Whatever you say. All I know is that features intended to make the iPhone/Mac experience better, like FaceTime and Messages, are useless for the two-thirds of the people I interact with who are on Android devices. From an ecosystem point of view, I might actually be better off with Android (<*Shudder!*>).
Maybe what matters to you as an investor is different than what matters to me as a user. Like that profit margin. Part of what's deterring me from buying any more iPhones at the moment (aside from holding out for a larger screen) is the hefty price tag. At $900 per for a unit with reasonable storage, sticker shock has us hanging on to old models and not buying new units. It also results in many of the people in my communications circle buying non-Apple devices because they're so much less expensive. Maybe that doesn't matter to Apple as long as it continues to set new sales records with each new model, but it matters to me when the people I interact with are on VHS while I have Beta.
Your frame of reference is a single person? One of the richest people in the United States? A person who prides himself on and known for his technology savvy?
No, he was an example of someone who heavily invests into an ecosystem but experiments freely as he is not limited by the cost. My 'frame of reference' is knowing that I could do the same if Android or iOS annoyed me into switching.
Quote:
No. The majority of the population of India can't afford a smartphone. While there is a thriving software engineering community in the upper class, the upper class largely favors Apple iOS because they can afford the iPhone and desire the status of having an iPhone.
Sometimes I wonder how people on this forum come up with such seemingly illogical opinions. Then we get one of these examples of what passes for reading comprehension these days.
Whatever you say. All I know is that features intended to make the iPhone/Mac experience better, like FaceTime and Messages, are useless for the two-thirds of the people I interact with who are on Android devices. From an ecosystem point of view, I might actually be better off with Android (<*Shudder!*>).
Maybe what matters to you as an investor is different than what matters to me as a user. Like that profit margin. Part of what's deterring me from buying any more iPhones at the moment (aside from holding out for a larger screen) is the hefty price tag. At $900 per for a unit with reasonable storage, sticker shock has us hanging on to old models and not buying new units. It also results in many of the people in my communications circle buying non-Apple devices because they're so much less expensive. Maybe that doesn't matter to Apple as long as it continues to set new sales records with each new model, but it matters to me when the people I interact with are on VHS while I have Beta.
So use Google Hangouts or Skype. Or Kik or Whatsapp. Or just make a damn phone call. All of the things I just mentioned are cross-platform and available today.
I don't know why there have been so many comments in this thread about ecosystems referring to FaceTime and iMessages. Are they that big of a deal?
What did people use before FaceTime and iMessages?
Honestly... I've only made a couple of FaceTime calls... and only to test it out. And I only use iMessages because it just happens to work when texting another iPhone user. I know because the bubbles are in blue. Otherwise... they are green when texting an Android user.
There's more to an ecosystem than just a couple of first-party chat apps.
In my earlier comment... I was actually referring to 3rd-party apps and accessories in regards to Apple's ecosystem. You can't deny that Apple has a very desirable ecosystem despite having a small percentage of the smartphone market.
Oh... the new numbers are in: Android has 78.1% of the smartphone market... while Apple has 17.6%
Yet there will still be tons of apps that come out for the iPhone only... and plenty of accessory makers who focus on the iPhone exclusively.
That was my point.
Android's market share makes a great headline... but there's no compelling story afterwards.
I'm not convinced by this argument. I think getting market share in developing countries is perhapsmore important in terms of long term growth than developed countries. When someone has a lot of money available to them they might spend it on apps, but they also can overcome any costs with switching between platforms.
On the other hand, people in developing nations who can't afford another phone or can't afford the apps they want can often turn to development, making the apps that have the features they desire and building a community of users to cooperate. That is an important target for any manufacturer I think. Apple's making some good inroads in China, I don't know what the situation with India is, but they clearly feel like developing markets are also very important.
There are phones that sell for very cheap prices in developing countries. The companies selling those phones have a decent amount of market share in those countries. (Apple currently has 0% market share in the under-$450 market)
Unfortunately... most of the companies who sell very cheap phones in developing countries aren't making any money.
So is it really advantageous to have growth in unit sales and market share... but have a loss in revenue and profit?
Like I said... Apple doesn't play in the under-$450 smartphone market. They don't play in the under-$1000 laptop market, either.
Now look at all the companies who do play in those cheaper markets. It's not all roses, is it.
There are phones that sell for very cheap prices in developing countries. The companies selling those phones have a decent amount of market share in those countries. (Apple currently has 0% market share in the under-$450 market)
Unfortunately... most of the companies who sell very cheap phones in developing countries aren't making any money.
So is it really advantageous to have growth in unit sales and market share... but have a loss in revenue and profit?
Like I said... Apple doesn't play in the under-$450 smartphone market. They don't play in the under-$1000 laptop market, either.
Now look at all the companies who do play in those cheaper markets. It's not all roses, is it.
Well that is a very complex question. It's obviously in Apple's best interests to make a good margin on all their products and I'm sure they're confident that rising income levels will increase their potential user base.
On the other hand, it's also good for consumers to have a wide choice of manufacturers who compete aggressively against each other in order to lower prices. As long as Apple's market share keeps increasing then they shouldn't be a problem. They can fight amongst themselves and go bankrupt trying.
I agree that i think if there was a way someone can track active (aka, used in the last month) devices it would be a more realistic market share view. Too bad the companies that post mobile internet traffic usage statistics can't do it. That would also eliminate the "non-smart android phones" from the batch if people never use them to browse a website.
I honestly think the "active" market for real smart phones is a lot closer to 50/50 than in the quarterly reports.
I say that because in the time I've had my iPhone 5 (year and a half) a few of my friends have replaced their Androids twice because they slowed down or stopped working. That's a big + for quarterly market share for Android but not a true representation of Android's dominance.
All the negative numbers together don't add up to 19% so the explanation of 119% is still confusing. It seems to me the table says one thing then the author of the article says another. I don't have any reason to believe the table was manipulated but I'm also having trouble understanding how the author misread the numbers.
ps. It's entirely possible that I'm misreading the table but the article certainly doesn't help me understand how to arrive at 87.4%.
Well that is a very complex question. It's obviously in Apple's best interests to make a good margin on all their products and I'm sure they're confident that rising income levels will increase their potential user base.
On the other hand, it's also good for consumers to have a wide choice of manufacturers who compete aggressively against each other in order to lower prices. As long as Apple's market share keeps increasing then they shouldn't be a problem. They can fight amongst themselves and go bankrupt trying.
It's actually in EVERY company's best interest to make good margin. But looking at this article... most companies aren't making any money at all.
I understand that it's good for consumers to have a wide choice of manufacturers... but how much longer will some of those manufacturers be around? They can't keep losing money forever.
And... you can't pay your bills with market share.
"Because their combined earnings were higher than the industry's total earnings as a result of many vendors losing money in Q4, Apple and Samsung mathematically accounted for more than 100% of the industry's earnings."
OKay, got it. Not sure how I missed that statement in the article, unless it was added in after I made my post. But in any event, I don't think it is sensible to equate one companys loss to anothers profit. Total profits are 100%, not 119%. Thanks for reminding me of how silly analysts use "new math".
Whatever you say. All I know is that features intended to make the iPhone/Mac experience better, like FaceTime and Messages, are useless for the two-thirds of the people I interact with who are on Android devices. From an ecosystem point of view, I might actually be better off with Android (<*Shudder!*>).
Maybe what matters to you as an investor is different than what matters to me as a user. Like that profit margin. Part of what's deterring me from buying any more iPhones at the moment (aside from holding out for a larger screen) is the hefty price tag. At $900 per for a unit with reasonable storage, sticker shock has us hanging on to old models and not buying new units. It also results in many of the people in my communications circle buying non-Apple devices because they're so much less expensive. Maybe that doesn't matter to Apple as long as it continues to set new sales records with each new model, but it matters to me when the people I interact with are on VHS while I have Beta.
The thing is, that every Android OEM is implementing their own ecosystem to their devices. Or is there any use of Samsungs Smart Home environment for LG, HTC, Huawei or Windows users? I think not. Also you should compare the marketshare of those manufacturers in other consumer electronics markets like tablets and laptops and the integration between those devices. Remember that all iPhone users have nice integration with Mac OS X whenever they have both devices from Apple, while a Samsung laptop is almost no use if you have an S4 due to windows.
What I'm saying is that Android does not equal Android and if you separate Android by manufacturers there is only Samsung, HTC and Nokia (in some markets) comparable. If about 60% of Samsungs smartphone business consists of dumbphones, where is the advantage of ecosystem?
And don't forget that Apple users tend to be much much more active, which boosts the Apple ecosystem and attracts developers, thus making users more active, while Samsung consumers might choose an HTC next time because theres absolutely no difference in App quality
Comments
Apple has sold the following as of 28 December 2013:
451,626,000 iPhones
195,230,000 iPads
How many of these devices are currently active is unknown.
I seem to remember Apple mentioning a number just shy of 500 mil. unique active devices accessing the App store in december 2013 (that’s the number they used to provide the statistic about iOS 7 adoption rate) in the recent earnings call... I could be wrong though.
When persons with money available to them overcome any costs with switching between platforms they have overwhelmingly chosen in favor of Apple iOS.
There is no evidence that the developing world is producing software engineers in mass numbers to produce the apps they can't afford.
When persons with money available to them overcome any costs with switching between platforms they have overwhelmingly chosen in favor of Apple iOS.
Whether or not that's true (I haven't really seen the numbers) the fact is that people with plenty of spare cash can afford to buy into any competitor with little notice. Look at Woz for example, how many phones does he carry now!
I don't know what field you work in, but I am an independent contractor and I assure you that the developing world is indeed producing vast numbers of software engineers. India is a particularly long standing example but just look at any app store in China.
Race to the bottom is for losers
But! But! Someone told me thats where I can get beer!
Your frame of reference is a single person? One of the richest people in the United States? A person who prides himself on and known for his technology savvy?
No. The majority of the population of India can't afford a smartphone. While there is a thriving software engineering community in the upper class, the upper class largely favors Apple iOS because they can afford the iPhone and desire the status of having an iPhone.
See... it's not the amount of market share you have... it's what you can achieve with the amount of market share you have.
Whatever you say. All I know is that features intended to make the iPhone/Mac experience better, like FaceTime and Messages, are useless for the two-thirds of the people I interact with who are on Android devices. From an ecosystem point of view, I might actually be better off with Android (<*Shudder!*>).
Maybe what matters to you as an investor is different than what matters to me as a user. Like that profit margin. Part of what's deterring me from buying any more iPhones at the moment (aside from holding out for a larger screen) is the hefty price tag. At $900 per for a unit with reasonable storage, sticker shock has us hanging on to old models and not buying new units. It also results in many of the people in my communications circle buying non-Apple devices because they're so much less expensive. Maybe that doesn't matter to Apple as long as it continues to set new sales records with each new model, but it matters to me when the people I interact with are on VHS while I have Beta.
Your frame of reference is a single person? One of the richest people in the United States? A person who prides himself on and known for his technology savvy?
No, he was an example of someone who heavily invests into an ecosystem but experiments freely as he is not limited by the cost. My 'frame of reference' is knowing that I could do the same if Android or iOS annoyed me into switching.
The majority perhaps not, but there are a lot of people in India and their smartphone market is growing like crazy: http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prIN24471213
You say iOS is largely favoured, yet I find no evidence of this, can you cite please?
"Apple's 87.4 percent share of the industry's profits dwarfed the earnings of second place Samsung, which accounted for 32.2 percent"....
Could someone clarify this, please?
Here's a complete explanation. Please do let us know if you have any more questions:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/162018/apples-iphone-earned-87-4-of-global-handset-profits-in-december-quarter
Here's a complete explanation. Please do let us know if you have any more questions:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/162018/apples-iphone-earned-87-4-of-global-handset-profits-in-december-quarter
Sometimes I wonder how people on this forum come up with such seemingly illogical opinions. Then we get one of these examples of what passes for reading comprehension these days.
So use Google Hangouts or Skype. Or Kik or Whatsapp. Or just make a damn phone call.
I don't know why there have been so many comments in this thread about ecosystems referring to FaceTime and iMessages. Are they that big of a deal?
What did people use before FaceTime and iMessages?
Honestly... I've only made a couple of FaceTime calls... and only to test it out. And I only use iMessages because it just happens to work when texting another iPhone user. I know because the bubbles are in blue. Otherwise... they are green when texting an Android user.
There's more to an ecosystem than just a couple of first-party chat apps.
In my earlier comment... I was actually referring to 3rd-party apps and accessories in regards to Apple's ecosystem. You can't deny that Apple has a very desirable ecosystem despite having a small percentage of the smartphone market.
Oh... the new numbers are in: Android has 78.1% of the smartphone market... while Apple has 17.6%
Yet there will still be tons of apps that come out for the iPhone only... and plenty of accessory makers who focus on the iPhone exclusively.
That was my point.
Android's market share makes a great headline... but there's no compelling story afterwards.
There are phones that sell for very cheap prices in developing countries. The companies selling those phones have a decent amount of market share in those countries. (Apple currently has 0% market share in the under-$450 market)
Unfortunately... most of the companies who sell very cheap phones in developing countries aren't making any money.
So is it really advantageous to have growth in unit sales and market share... but have a loss in revenue and profit?
Like I said... Apple doesn't play in the under-$450 smartphone market. They don't play in the under-$1000 laptop market, either.
Now look at all the companies who do play in those cheaper markets. It's not all roses, is it.
There are phones that sell for very cheap prices in developing countries. The companies selling those phones have a decent amount of market share in those countries. (Apple currently has 0% market share in the under-$450 market)
Unfortunately... most of the companies who sell very cheap phones in developing countries aren't making any money.
So is it really advantageous to have growth in unit sales and market share... but have a loss in revenue and profit?
Like I said... Apple doesn't play in the under-$450 smartphone market. They don't play in the under-$1000 laptop market, either.
Now look at all the companies who do play in those cheaper markets. It's not all roses, is it.
Well that is a very complex question. It's obviously in Apple's best interests to make a good margin on all their products and I'm sure they're confident that rising income levels will increase their potential user base.
On the other hand, it's also good for consumers to have a wide choice of manufacturers who compete aggressively against each other in order to lower prices. As long as Apple's market share keeps increasing then they shouldn't be a problem. They can fight amongst themselves and go bankrupt trying.
I agree that i think if there was a way someone can track active (aka, used in the last month) devices it would be a more realistic market share view. Too bad the companies that post mobile internet traffic usage statistics can't do it. That would also eliminate the "non-smart android phones" from the batch if people never use them to browse a website.
I honestly think the "active" market for real smart phones is a lot closer to 50/50 than in the quarterly reports.
I say that because in the time I've had my iPhone 5 (year and a half) a few of my friends have replaced their Androids twice because they slowed down or stopped working. That's a big + for quarterly market share for Android but not a true representation of Android's dominance.
All the negative numbers together don't add up to 19% so the explanation of 119% is still confusing. It seems to me the table says one thing then the author of the article says another. I don't have any reason to believe the table was manipulated but I'm also having trouble understanding how the author misread the numbers.
ps. It's entirely possible that I'm misreading the table but the article certainly doesn't help me understand how to arrive at 87.4%.
It's actually in EVERY company's best interest to make good margin. But looking at this article... most companies aren't making any money at all.
I understand that it's good for consumers to have a wide choice of manufacturers... but how much longer will some of those manufacturers be around? They can't keep losing money forever.
And... you can't pay your bills with market share.
"Because their combined earnings were higher than the industry's total earnings as a result of many vendors losing money in Q4, Apple and Samsung mathematically accounted for more than 100% of the industry's earnings."
OKay, got it. Not sure how I missed that statement in the article, unless it was added in after I made my post. But in any event, I don't think it is sensible to equate one companys loss to anothers profit. Total profits are 100%, not 119%. Thanks for reminding me of how silly analysts use "new math".
Whatever you say. All I know is that features intended to make the iPhone/Mac experience better, like FaceTime and Messages, are useless for the two-thirds of the people I interact with who are on Android devices. From an ecosystem point of view, I might actually be better off with Android (<*Shudder!*>).
Maybe what matters to you as an investor is different than what matters to me as a user. Like that profit margin. Part of what's deterring me from buying any more iPhones at the moment (aside from holding out for a larger screen) is the hefty price tag. At $900 per for a unit with reasonable storage, sticker shock has us hanging on to old models and not buying new units. It also results in many of the people in my communications circle buying non-Apple devices because they're so much less expensive. Maybe that doesn't matter to Apple as long as it continues to set new sales records with each new model, but it matters to me when the people I interact with are on VHS while I have Beta.
The thing is, that every Android OEM is implementing their own ecosystem to their devices. Or is there any use of Samsungs Smart Home environment for LG, HTC, Huawei or Windows users? I think not. Also you should compare the marketshare of those manufacturers in other consumer electronics markets like tablets and laptops and the integration between those devices. Remember that all iPhone users have nice integration with Mac OS X whenever they have both devices from Apple, while a Samsung laptop is almost no use if you have an S4 due to windows.
What I'm saying is that Android does not equal Android and if you separate Android by manufacturers there is only Samsung, HTC and Nokia (in some markets) comparable. If about 60% of Samsungs smartphone business consists of dumbphones, where is the advantage of ecosystem?
And don't forget that Apple users tend to be much much more active, which boosts the Apple ecosystem and attracts developers, thus making users more active, while Samsung consumers might choose an HTC next time because theres absolutely no difference in App quality