Apple wants to stop, track down spammers with automated disposable email addresses

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 69
    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

    (getting old, but hope it's still allowed)

     

    That’s fine; you’re allowed to get old.

  • Reply 22 of 69
    That’s fine; you’re allowed to get old.

    LOL, without getting hurt.
  • Reply 23 of 69
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Disposable emails sounds like too much of a hassle. I use a spam filtering service which works wonderfully and I don't have to do anything. It just works. I don't usually get any spam on iCloud either so Apple apparently has pretty good filtering already. 

  • Reply 24 of 69
    gtr wrote: »
    Good God.

    You all sound like you don't want bigger, more erect penises!

    ;)
    You win the Internet for the day! Just toooo funny! :D
  • Reply 25 of 69
    When google apps for domains was free, I used their groups (not today's Groups) to do exactly this.

    Since all those domains were grandfathered in for free, I still use it there.

    But, really, patent? That's a joke and an abuse of the concept of patents.

    Nobody patented junk mail yet?
  • Reply 26 of 69

    I already do this manually using an email service with sub-domain support.  It's very effective.  I provide a unique email address to every service I register and as soon as one gets compromised I simply block it.  Depending on the service I may even block the address proactively and only unblock it if or when I need to.

     

    It's great that Apple are looking to take this approach on board at the server level and make it automatic and transparent to users.  A very intelligent idea and I hope they can implement it soon (if they haven't already).

     

    The other benefit to this approach is limiting the linking and unification of profiles from a government spying perspective...

  • Reply 27 of 69
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

     

    I want the exact opposite.  If anyone you don't know or approve wants to email you, they cannot.  Surely this would not be hard to implement.


     

    You can achieve something like this using email rules.  Most email applications have pretty good rule management including Mail in OS X.  For instance you can set up a rule to only receive emails from people in your contact list and people you've emailed previously.  The problem is this isn't occurring at the server level.  You'd still be getting emails from others but would just be automatically deleting them or forwarding them to the trash.

     

    Some other services like the one I mentioned above give you more powerful rule management to block emails at the server level so they're never actually delivered but either bounce or are deleted before being delivered.

  • Reply 28 of 69
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,722member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post

     

    So stupid. It's just e-mail. If someone wants to e-mail you, they should be allowed to do so.


     

    I want the exact opposite.  If anyone you don't know or approve wants to email you, they cannot.  Surely this would not be hard to implement.


     

    Exactly.  An email whitelist.  If I wanted email from you, I would've added your account already.  If they can't authenticate email sources (i.e. spoofing), that would be the next best thing.

     

    Come to think of it, I'd like that for my cell phone as well.

  • Reply 29 of 69
    We have prior art. Our CanIt anti-spam system has had a feature called Locked Addresses that does exactly this (only in a better-designed way) since 2005.

    I have filed an application with USPTO outlining our prior art.
  • Reply 30 of 69
    Originally Posted by dskoll View Post

    We have prior art. Our CanIt anti-spam system has had a feature called Locked Addresses that does exactly this (only in a better-designed way) since 2005.



    I have filed an application with USPTO outlining our prior art.

     

    Thanks, patent troll. Get off it. Unless you’re just giving an example of that, in which case: spectacular sarcasm.

  • Reply 31 of 69
    I am not a patent troll. We did NOT apply for a patent for our Locked Addresses feature since we do not believe in software patents. I merely sent the prior art to the USPTO to PREVENT Apple from being granted a patent.

    You can Google "CanIt Antispam" to see who we are and what we're all about.
  • Reply 32 of 69
    Originally Posted by dskoll View Post

    I am not a patent troll. We did NOT apply for a patent for our Locked Addresses feature since we do not believe in software patents. I merely sent the prior art to the USPTO to PREVENT Apple from being granted a patent.

     

    And you’re confident that you have this as a patent and there’s no difference whatsoever in Apple’s proposed implementation?

  • Reply 33 of 69
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    And you’re confident that you have this as a patent and there’s no difference whatsoever in Apple’s proposed implementation?

     

    I am confident that our Locked Addresses feature implements most of the claims in Apple's application, yes. It also predates the application filing date by some seven years.

    A clever patent lawyer will most likely find a way to salvage some of Apple's claims... that's the job of a patent lawyer. But I'm pretty sure we can invalidate most of the important claims.
  • Reply 34 of 69
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

     

    This is why I have my hotmail account and had it since the 90's, anytime I do business over the internet with a company I am not sure about they get the hotmail account email and I let M$ deal with all the spam. Since I have been doing this my person IPS email address has never been spammed. M$ does a pretty good job of filtering out the spam, but the account does get hit from time to time with Spam.


     

      Same here.  My main email has been Verizon/Yahoo and I need to use Gmail ones for work, but I also have a don't-use-for-anything-else Hotmail account that I started in the late '90s for anything that doesn't have to be my real email.  Lots of verifying via email sent to me.  I also use it as my cc to myself so that doesn't fill up my Apple Mail.  And that semi embarrassing Hotmail account has turned out to be the least screwy experience of all of them.  Gmail gets less junk than the others but is by far the worst to use, as far as I'm concerned.  Verizon/Yahoo has far too many technical problems (even aside from the disastrous remaking of their webmail site).

     

     Weird but true.  Hotmail not be the most amazing experience but by not getting worse like nearly every other large service they don't come off badly at all.

  • Reply 35 of 69
    Originally Posted by dskoll View Post

    I am confident that our Locked Addresses feature implements most of the claims in Apple's application, yes. It also predates the application filing date by some seven years.

     

    Could you link to the USPTO page for that patent, please?

     
    But I'm pretty sure we can invalidate most of the important claims.

     

    Doesn’t even exist and you’re already gunning to invalidate? Expect no sympathy here.

  • Reply 36 of 69
    If you read the article, it clearly states that this system would be transparent to the user.
    They are probably looking to implement this with the iCloud email system.
    mstone wrote: »
    Disposable emails sounds like too much of a hassle. I use a spam filtering service which works wonderfully and I don't have to do anything. It just works. I don't usually get any spam on iCloud either so Apple apparently has pretty good filtering already. 
  • Reply 37 of 69
    Quote:
    In some cases, the system can assign context information when creating the disposable account. For example, if a user is giving their address to a vendor, context information associated with that vendor's name can be added as part of the address. If the user receives spam through that specific account, they will be able to examine the associated context information and use it to take action against the vendor for providing the address to an unauthorized party.

     

    This is what I would do with my own mail server. Put the site name on the address I registered to so I could have prove the site is abusing my email address.
  • Reply 38 of 69
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wings View Post



    "Further, these generated email accounts would be intelligently tagged with contextual clues that help users track down the source responsible for handing off the address to a spam provider."



    YES! 1000 times YES!



    Once they do that I'll be able to get my cyber hands around their cyber throats.

    As I think about it, maybe it's not so surprising that Apple came up with this. After all, it's kind of what they've been doing (as it's been rumored) to ensure secrecy of their new products - they give different employees different parts of it, with different "contextual clues", so if it leaks, they can track down where the leak came from. It's pretty clever to expand this to a system of tracking down spammers.

  • Reply 39 of 69
    @Tallest Skil:

    Our Locked Addresses feature is not patented because I am philosophically opposed to software patents.

    Secondly, under patent law, prior art does not need to be patented. You merely need to show that an invention has been invented and published before the filing date. We invented and published the Locked Addresses feature in 2005. If you wish, I can post release notes, our source-code control history or the mailing list archive announcing the feature. Or you can find various online sources who covered our release... for example, http://net-security.org/article.php?id=854

    I also described the basic idea in 2003 to the IETF's anti-spam research group... you can read an archived email here, for example: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg/current/msg00672.html

    Amusingly, I used the Locked Addresses feature to sign up to Apple Insider. If they sell my email address, I'll know about it!
  • Reply 40 of 69
    Amazing to see that Apple is considering the same thing that is just now launching!

    Go see ningo.me / beat.apple to find the implementation of this "transparent disposable email address system". It is in its early stages, but is way more powerful: you can even require a "postage" for sending you email - which will reduce the spam (or even irrelevant non-sense from your friends...) even more.

    As for spamgourmet: that is not an adequate system at all: as soon as you reply to a message, your real address is disclosed. Not so at ningo.me.
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