Apple set to discontinue legacy, non-Retina iPad 2

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 88
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post





    And my guess is that iOS 8 WILL work on the iPad 2.



    IMHO... iOS 8 will see the maturing of iOS 7. And while it's possible that some new features will recquire a recent iPad or iPhone... most of the feautures will have to deal with added customization and "fleshing out" the vision and integration of iOS and OSX.

    Ludicrous and typical troll reply.



    1) Apple has never ripped off anyone... ever. Because YOU have ALWAYS had the choice not to be "ripped off" if you so choose to, by buying something else.



    2) They get away with a higher price for their devices, because no other manufacturer has figured out how to mix features AND quality at a similar price point. Apple users pay more because they actually do get more, not in specs... but in overall use, quality... and if you really don't like the experience... resale value when you dump it.



    We would all love for Apple devices to be less expensive... in the same vein as a less expensive Porsche, Mercedes, BMW... flat in London, Paris or New York... or anything else that has a high market value as apposed to competing mass market Brands. Brand being the keyword here. Apple coddles and protects it... so that it's users always get good resale value when they part with their devices.



    If you really want to rant and pull your hair out... I personally believe Apple devices are too cheap. Mainly because the competition isn't anywhere close to the value proposition that Apple devices afford it's users.



    So you can "Bite The Apple" Fan writing this... but careful... my only value prop is that I bite back. Valuable I'm sure to you, because according to a recent study folks like you get their jollies this way daily. I should probably refrain from helping you "Get Off" ... but I try to be kind to everyone, if only to assist in putting themselves out of misery by overindulging their fetish and choking on it or pushing it too far... image



    No, there's no way iOS 8 will run on iPad 2. iOS 7 is already pretty slow on my iPad and doesn't use a lot of interesting stuff in iOS 7. I don't see it using even less of iOS8.

  • Reply 62 of 88
    clemynx wrote: »

    No, there's no way iOS 8 will run on iPad 2. iOS 7 is already pretty slow on my iPad and doesn't use a lot of interesting stuff in iOS 7. I don't see it using even less of iOS8.
    Don't be so sure about that... especially since you might want to look into why your iPad 2 is running so slow.

    I have 4 of them under my care they all work rather fast considering their age. One that I use daily alongside my Air is almost imperceptable in many tasks (Safari not being one of them however)... and other than the screen differences, I'm still getting a ton of use out of the iPad 2.

    With that said, you might want to check some of your settings, for example I have most animation stuff turned off like paralax effect.

    NOTE: I did mention that I don't think there's going to be a lot of processor intensive tasks added to iOS 8, and that it will be more optimization and adding of functions to take advantage of the device it's being used on.
  • Reply 63 of 88
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

     

    I still have mine. Runs iOS 7 great and everything I throw at it runs beautifully. 

     

    It was and still is a great device. 


    So full of crap.  It runs iOS 7 horribly on the A5.  Apps will slow down to a snail's pace because the iPad 2 lacks RAM and an appropriate CPU.  Many games will choke on it.  Obviously you haven't seen iOS 7 run on an A6 or A7 CPU.  My original iPad mini ran considerably slower with iOS 7 compared to iOS 6.  My brother wished he never upgraded his iPad 2 with iOS 7 because apps run like crap on it compared to iOS 6.  Even after a few restores, it still runs like crap.  It is no longer a great device unless you are at a restaurant that uses them as a kiosk for ordering food.  That is all they are good for, which is why they stayed on the product line for three years.

     

    The A5 Geekbench scores are 258 for single-core and 494 for multi-core.  The A7 Geekbench scores are 1,477 for single-core and 2,677 for multi-core.  iOS 7 was made for the A7, not the three-year old A5.  If you use an iPad mini Retina or iPad Air, you will quickly see how horrible iOS 7 is on the A5.  It kills the battery on my iPhone 4S, even with all the automatic crap turned off.  You are not fooling anyone into believing the iPad 2 is good with iOS 7.

  • Reply 64 of 88
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post



    Don't be so sure about that... especially since you might want to look into why your iPad 2 is running so slow.



    I have 4 of them under my care they all work rather fast considering their age. One that I use daily alongside my Air is almost imperceptable in many tasks (Safari not being one of them however).

    LOL…you are so full of crap.  The A5 Geekbench scores are 258 for single-core and 494 for multi-core.  The A7 Geekbench scores are 1,477 for single-core and 2,677 for multi-core.  Your iPad 2 is NOT imperceptible in many tasks to an iPad Air.  The A7 does everything faster than the A5.  You might want to learn how to spell imperceptible before using the word.  Four of them under your care?  Are you babysitting them?

  • Reply 65 of 88
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

    Obviously you haven't seen iOS 7 run on an A6 or A7 CPU.

     

    Sure have. Works fine.

  • Reply 66 of 88
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post





    Don't be so sure about that... especially since you might want to look into why your iPad 2 is running so slow.



    I have 4 of them under my care they all work rather fast considering their age. One that I use daily alongside my Air is almost imperceptable in many tasks (Safari not being one of them however)... and other than the screen differences, I'm still getting a ton of use out of the iPad 2.



    With that said, you might want to check some of your settings, for example I have most animation stuff turned off like paralax effect.



    NOTE: I did mention that I don't think there's going to be a lot of processor intensive tasks added to iOS 8, and that it will be more optimization and adding of functions to take advantage of the device it's being used on.

     

    I had disabled all those animations before. It's not unusable but getting there. And I treated it very well in those three years.

    I've noticed people can get very different experiences with their products. Some said iOS6 was too slow for them when it worked perfectly for me. That said, I've trying doing a restore with no change. I'm either going to go back to iOS6 or be patient until I buy a new iPad, probably next year (with TouchID allowing for multiple users hopefully)

  • Reply 67 of 88
    clemynx wrote: »
    I had disabled all those animations before. It's not unusable but getting there. And I treated it very well in those three years.
    I've noticed people can get very different experiences with their products. Some said iOS6 was too slow for them when it worked perfectly for me. That said, I've trying doing a restore with no change. I'm either going to go back to iOS6 or be patient until I buy a new iPad, probably next year (with TouchID allowing for multiple users hopefully)
    Sorry to say, biut I don't think Apple will do multi-user accounts on iOS devices any time soon. Also going back to iOS 6 I would advise to think about it before you do it. What exactly are you having problems with iOS7 on your iPad? I'll give it my best shot to help you if you give us a kittle bit more info.
  • Reply 68 of 88
    clemynx wrote: »
    I'm either going to go back to iOS6 or...

    You can't go back to 6; Apple doesn't sign the software anymore (disabled about 3 days after the release of 7). Unless you mean you're grabbing a different device that still has iOS6 on it.
  • Reply 69 of 88
    hillstones wrote: »
    LOL…you are so full of crap.  The A5 Geekbench scores are 258 for single-core and 494 for multi-core.  The A7 Geekbench scores are 1,477 for single-core and 2,677 for multi-core.  Your iPad 2 is NOT imperceptible in many tasks to an iPad Air.  The A7 does everything faster than the A5.  You might want to learn how to spell imperceptible before using the word.  Four of them under your care?  Are you babysitting them?
    Babysitting? Yes actually, since they previously either a) belonged to me at one time and I'm still servicing them for other members of my family; or b) were purchased by me for a client. I've stated here in other threads how I treat Apple products that I service... so babysitting is a compliment. Thank You.

    Your benchmark knowledge gets you the Supremo Spec-Whore of The Day Award... nothing more, nothing less. Why even bother mentioning Apple specs when everyone "knows" that every Android and Windows 8 flagship phone has (supposedly) better specs than Apple and on paper, every computer on the market is better than anything Apple produces or has produced ever. /s

    My absolute and sincere apologies for a typo and in so doing causing my entire post.... heck my entire opinion on anything ever uttered by Yours Truly... invalid. But please be a sport and let me attempt another try.

    An iPad 2 vs. iPad Air is "imperceptible", because unless you are using both devices side by side, the iPad 2 still performs admirably with iOS 7 in regards to User Experience like: smooth scrolling; touch responsiveness; opening apps; overall responsiveness of the entire device. May I admit that my usage (as well as those I babysit) don't include hardly any games and the iPad is used mostly for media and assorted business apps. With a few small tweaks in settings we're all experiencing the same speed and user experience as when we purchased the iPad 2.

    Is the iPad Air faster... and does it have a better screen? Well I would sincerely hope so, if only for Apple's well being(!)

    Would I suggest purchasing an iPad 2 over an Air today? No, and I never suggested such a thing. But unless you have an Air to compare to, the iPad 2 if you have one is still a great piece of tech and has just as many, if not more (App Store growth), uses today than it did when released.

    Regarding BS: what does Bart Simpson.... or Brittney Spears(?)... have anything to do with my post? And no, I don't babsit either one of them (Thank Dawg!)... :smokey:
  • Reply 70 of 88
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post





    Sorry to say, biut I don't think Apple will do multi-user accounts on iOS devices any time soon. Also going back to iOS 6 I would advise to think about it before you do it. What exactly are you having problems with iOS7 on your iPad? I'll give it my best shot to help you if you give us a kittle bit more info.

     

    Browsing is slow. Sometimes it slows down so much that I can't tap anything and must wait for several seconds (a small eternity) for it to react again.

    I think it's meant to stay like that. I'll uninstall a few apps and give it a little more memory to work.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post





    You can't go back to 6; Apple doesn't sign the software anymore (disabled about 3 days after the release of 7). Unless you mean you're grabbing a different device that still has iOS6 on it.

     

    I have an old restoration file.

  • Reply 71 of 88
    clemynx wrote: »
    I have an old restoration file.

    You can indeed install the older software but after it reboots it needs to connect to iTunes so it calls home. And then Apple won't sign your iOS6 device; that's the whole problem. Because they do sign the 3GS & 4 with iOS6 but not devices that support iOS7, which I think is ridiculous.
  • Reply 72 of 88
    philboogie wrote: »
    You can indeed install the older software but after it reboots it needs to connect to iTunes so it calls home. And then Apple won't sign your iOS6 device; that's the whole problem. Because they do sign the 3GS & 4 with iOS6 but not devices that support iOS7, which I think is ridiculous.

    I also have to say that locking out "roll backs" is something I don't agree with 100%... but with that said, I do think I can guess why they have done that with iOS7, and I think the "light bulb" will go on for most people as to "why" at WWDC with iOS 8.

    My main guestimate hinges on the impending larger iPhones and possibly a larger iPad in the near future, and the way Apple is planning on implementing "resolution independence" across all iOS devices. That is using HTML5, CSS3 and SVG graphics rather than relying on pixel-based bitmaps for core navigational and GUI elements.

    With these new "standards" baked into the core, it will also allow more personalization, easy stylizing of the GUI to fit user needs... and most of all when certain users absolutely must have larger elements to touch and engage with due to disabilities or just plain bad eyesight. The entire user interface will be able to "zoom" without pixilation (jaggies) and even add "contrast" like dropshadows or embossing, but always be sharp at any size.

    These core implementations will take away the need for developers to always release ever larger universal binaries for iPhone and iPad, and still be able to optimize the viewing experience across devices, in portrait or landscape. It's basically what forward thinking web developers are doing now with "responsive design" across websites.

    Naturally, the App devs making games will have the hardest transition because they are so bitmap graphic heavy... but there are still ways to implement GUI overlays using modern standards that won't effect the underlying hi-res bit graphics.

    NOTES:
    • 1) going flat is nothing new and was NOT done to just please any aesthetic within Apple, or to tickle Sir Jony's minimalist industrial design ethic. While it "fits"... it was not the main reason... and it most assuredly was NOT to P*SS a number of it's users off, or to answer to any blogger/tech wishlist for Apple to dump IOS6-style because it was boring and stale.
    • 2) while "flat" appears to be a fad or trend, Microsoft and Google are also doing this with their GUIs for the exact same reason as I stated Apple is. Although Google's aproach is still relying on far too much javascript at render time to make it a "smooth" experience, they are working on a new "platform" themselves (I forget the name) that will do the same as core frameworks at Apple. Microsoft is going all in with HTML5 for at least the last 3 years I believe.
    • 3) just about any element, icon or info graphic that we came to love in iOS6 and before it, can be rendered today using only HTML5 and CSS3. Including most "skeuomorphic" icons/logos, repeating patterns (even with randomization like sand, gravel, textures, etc), photo effects like embossing, drop shadows, gradated light overlays, etc.
    • 4) SVG vectors add even more possibilities, including manipulation and advanced resolution independent animation.
    • 5) The other interesting development over the last couple of years, is the use of "icon type" to add GUI and navigation elements to websites (HTML). Most people don’t realize that those „icons“ in the corners of many websites today are actually a font or combinations of multiple fonts, to display FB, Twitter, Home, Email, Sharing, etc. etc. These are flat at the moment to aid in render speed. In the future they will be „manipulated on a „letter-by-letter“ (icon in this case) basis. It affords a dev to drop all of their vector GUI elements into a „package“ for easy delivery at download… but most of all affords a large app developer like Apple to re-use the same „GUI Symbol Font“ across all apps. Think efficiency and speed.


    I suppose many people here on this forum already know all this stuff… but just in case… well… whatever... :smokey:
  • Reply 73 of 88
    clemynx wrote: »
    Browsing is slow. Sometimes it slows down so much that I can't tap anything and must wait for several seconds (a small eternity) for it to react again.
    I think it's meant to stay like that. I'll uninstall a few apps and give it a little more memory to work.

    1) be careful how many website tabs you have open at one time. A bummer in some cases I know... but..??!

    2) never have AppleInsider open with any other tabs from any other website, and limit yourself to 3-4 open tabs from AI. No I'm not joking!

    AI crashes quite badly on even the new iPad Airs, whether Safari, Chrome, or my preferred reader app Feedly. It's also the slowest site that I visit every day on any OS X or iOS device, whether it's the home page or the forums.

    This is the wrong thread to vent.. so I'll leave this as is with a sad taste of reality stuck to the roof of my mouth like stale old peanut butter... can say no more than: Yuck! :\

    Edit to add: seems to be a problem with unoptomized ad blocks (divs), heavy Google Analytics, javscript not optimized (minimized and gzipped properly?)... and Huddler.... oh my... Huddler!!!!
  • Reply 74 of 88
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post





    You can indeed install the older software but after it reboots it needs to connect to iTunes so it calls home. And then Apple won't sign your iOS6 device; that's the whole problem. Because they do sign the 3GS & 4 with iOS6 but not devices that support iOS7, which I think is ridiculous.



    Oh, that sucks.

  • Reply 75 of 88
    I also have to say that locking out "roll backs" is something I don't agree with 100%... but with that said, I do think I can guess why they have done that with iOS7, and I think the "light bulb" will go on for most people as to "why" at WWDC with iOS 8.

    My main guestimate hinges on the impending larger iPhones and possibly a larger iPad in the near future, and the way Apple is planning on implementing "resolution independence" across all iOS devices. That is using HTML5, CSS3 and SVG graphics rather than relying on pixel-based bitmaps for core navigational and GUI elements.

    With these new "standards" baked into the core, it will also allow more personalization, easy stylizing of the GUI to fit user needs... and most of all when certain users absolutely must have larger elements to touch and engage with due to disabilities or just plain bad eyesight. The entire user interface will be able to "zoom" without pixilation (jaggies) and even add "contrast" like dropshadows or embossing, but always be sharp at any size.

    These core implementations will take away the need for developers to always release ever larger universal binaries for iPhone and iPad, and still be able to optimize the viewing experience across devices, in portrait or landscape. It's basically what forward thinking web developers are doing now with "responsive design" across websites.

    Naturally, the App devs making games will have the hardest transition because they are so bitmap graphic heavy... but there are still ways to implement GUI overlays using modern standards that won't effect the underlying hi-res bit graphics.

    NOTES:
    • 1) going flat is nothing new and was NOT done to just please any aesthetic within Apple, or to tickle Sir Jony's minimalist industrial design ethic. While it "fits"... it was not the main reason... and it most assuredly was NOT to P*SS a number of it's users off, or to answer to any blogger/tech wishlist for Apple to dump IOS6-style because it was boring and stale.
    • 2) while "flat" appears to be a fad or trend, Microsoft and Google are also doing this with their GUIs for the exact same reason as I stated Apple is. Although Google's aproach is still relying on far too much javascript at render time to make it a "smooth" experience, they are working on a new "platform" themselves (I forget the name) that will do the same as core frameworks at Apple. Microsoft is going all in with HTML5 for at least the last 3 years I believe.
    • 3) just about any element, icon or info graphic that we came to love in iOS6 and before it, can be rendered today using only HTML5 and CSS3. Including most "skeuomorphic" icons/logos, repeating patterns (even with randomization like sand, gravel, textures, etc), photo effects like embossing, drop shadows, gradated light overlays, etc.
    • 4) SVG vectors add even more possibilities, including manipulation and advanced resolution independent animation.
    • 5) The other interesting development over the last couple of years, is the use of "icon type" to add GUI and navigation elements to websites (HTML). Most people don’t realize that those „icons“ in the corners of many websites today are actually a font or combinations of multiple fonts, to display FB, Twitter, Home, Email, Sharing, etc. etc. These are flat at the moment to aid in render speed. In the future they will be „manipulated on a „letter-by-letter“ (icon in this case) basis. It affords a dev to drop all of their vector GUI elements into a „package“ for easy delivery at download… but most of all affords a large app developer like Apple to re-use the same „GUI Symbol Font“ across all apps. Think efficiency and speed.


    I suppose many people here on this forum already know all this stuff… but just in case… well… whatever... :smokey:

    Didn't want to let your long post go unnoticed, though I don't have anything worthwhile to add. What would be nice is if [@]SolipsismX[/@] could give us his view on your proposed resolution independent larger screen.
  • Reply 76 of 88
    philboogie wrote: »
    Didn't want to let your long post go unnoticed, though I don't have anything worthwhile to add. What would be nice is if [@]SolipsismX[/@] could give us his view on your proposed resolution independent larger screen.

    Thanks for the recognition of my efforts.. 8-)

    Here's a link to an article that I read earlier in the week, where Microsoft has actually come under fire for creating "web apps" on there own, without waiting (or even asking for permission!) to do so from the companies involved.

    Surprise, you’ve got a Windows Phone app! Microsoft irks big brands in bid to stock mobile store

    It goes into little detail how it's actually done, but it's little more than packaging assets consisting mainly of HTML and CSS3, with I suppose(?) ASP.net and Javascript. The article alludes to the "idea" that Microsoft is only adding a "Home Screen bookmark" and calling it an App... but I don't think even MS is that stupid.

    NOTES:
    1) I was actually packaging my entire website on CDs way back in the 90's for people with slow internet connections, for them to view in thier browser of choice (Netscape being my favorite :)). Later and even to this day, HTML (+assets) has become the defacto way to deliver help manuals for assorted software titles. Apple allows devs to take that idea to the next level with integrated help file packages.

    2) SJ stated at the iPhone 1 launch that Apple was going to suggest Web Apps as the preferred method to customize the iPhone. Many have later speculated that he was just stalling for time to get the SDK and App Store ready for dev release. I actually believe he was quite serious and he was once again at the mercy of "standards committees" and the slow tech beheamoths of the time. Even after Apple delivered the SDK and launched the App Store, I don't think they were initially too thrilled with the App Store filling up with glorified websites.

    3) a huge amount of the Apps on the App Store are already simple HTML/CSS3 apps, created with browser-based "App Builders". Buttons, navigational aids, etc are already being "coded" with HTML/CSS3... so I don't see this as too far of a stretch to add current or added "standards" as they become available (drop shadows, inline embossing, etc.) because it's Apple devices... they could add these functionalities whenever and howeveer they wish.... including advanced SVG graphic support.

    Personally I have been helping my clients move to "responsive website design" for the last 18 months or so. It's still in it's infancy and we are all waiting for more HTML5 standards and nodes to be accepted and built into the browsers. The pace of software advancement is furious at tthe moment, and no sooner than you've settled on a workflow... the community comes up with something better. It's truly similar to the advent of desktop publishing in the late 80's and 90's... which I thoroughly enjoyed as I do these exciting new technologies today! It keeps ya young (at heart anyway :) )

    If anyone is interested in following the development of responsive design, I highly recommend subscribing to this newsletter, or bookmarking their archive page:

    Responsive Design Weekly

    Here is a good explaination on why bitmap graphics (PNG, JPG) are not nearly as good as SVG graphics going forward (NO... it's not dumping on Apple's Retina displays!):

    The Untold Awful Truth Behind Retina

    Last but not least... I would also like to hear what [@]SolipsismX[/@]... or @Dick Applebaum has to add to this discussion. Their input is always valued, as is yours!

    Thanks again for the... uh... "we-tweet as it wur"...spoken in my best Elmer Fudd impresssion...:smokey:
  • Reply 77 of 88
    2) SJ stated at the iPhone 1 launch that Apple was going to suggest Web Apps as the preferred method to customize the iPhone. Many have later speculated that he was just stalling for time to get the SDK and App Store ready for dev release. I actually believe he was quite serious and he was once again at the mercy of "standards committees" and the slow tech beheamoths of the time. Even after Apple delivered the SDK and launched the App Store, I don't think they were initially too thrilled with the App Store filling up with glorified websites.

    Thanks for yet another good post. I'll be reading the linked article over the weekend. As for Jobs liking HTML; what is sure is that he didn't want 3rd party apps as he was afraid that they would compromise the quality of the user experience. I quoted a piece from the bio, I'll never find it now, but maybe over the weekend. Two convinced him to do it, one was Phil Schiller. I believe the other was from Genetech.
  • Reply 78 of 88
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    philboogie wrote: »
    Thanks for yet another good post. I'll be reading the linked article over the weekend. As for Jobs liking HTML; what is sure is that he didn't want 3rd party apps as he was afraid that they would compromise the quality of the user experience. I quoted a piece from the bio, I'll never find it now, but maybe over the weekend. Two convinced him to do it, one was Phil Schiller. I believe the other was from Genetech.

    Your welcome.. :D

    I think it can be said that SJ's trepidation towards 3rd party apps was warranted, especially if you looked at the apps on other mobile devices at the time. Without a doubt, this led to a number of decisions like App Store review process among other things, and it is the defining difference between "the other guys going all-in open" and Apple's user experience with apps. There’s no debate anywhere that Apple sets the bar with quality well-designed apps, and SJ’s initial reluctance and demands paid off in spades.

    As an aside, everyone knows SJ could be an arrogant pr*ck in many of his views, specifically thinking that he was the ultimate arbiter of taste. IMO he unfortunately came across many times as a hypocrite... or let's say, he didn't trust his own words... in that Apple users and followers also had "taste" and were inspired by his very own when using Apple devices and software.

    I have actually witnessed this not only with my own design efforts switching between platforms in the late 90’s and early 00’s… but also with clients that have recently made the switch to Macs. Their designs become so much more… clean… for lack of a more praiseworthy term. The environment surely does influence design IMHO.

    Happy weekend reading!…:smokey:

    Edited to add: to this day I can spot a design with almost 100% accuracy whether it was made on a Mac or a Winbox. That's not to say that those on Winboxes are not professionals in thier fields, but it does point to my theory about environmental asthetics creaping into the creative process... and showing it.

    Edit 2: sorry... but I just had to show this link coming from John Gruber... kinda proves my point :) http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/02/28/ncppr-wankers
  • Reply 79 of 88
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Some more "reads if interested" to my theories above regarding "resolution independance achieved with HTML5/CSS3/SVG graphics":

    [URL=http://css-tricks.com/basics-css-blend-modes/]Basics of CSS Blend Modes[/URL] - [I]"...There are lots of designerly effects that we're used to seeing in static designs (thanks to Photoshop) that we don't see on the web much, with dynamic content. But that will change as CSS blend modes get more support. "[/I]
    Apple building these capabilities into Core frameworks should be easy.

    [URL=http://www.imore.com/apple-posts-design-guides-and-resources-help-developers-make-better-apps]Apple posts design guides and resources to help developers make better apps[/URL] -- The video in this linked article is design genius! If anyone reading this hasn't seen it already (it's about a year old)... you should! ---- ALSO be sure to read the comments!
  • Reply 80 of 88

    Don't think anyone's posted this yet, but Wal-Mart has rolled back the iPad 2 to $299.00 which makes me think they're just clearing it out.  Similarly, Best Buy is offering the same price (well, $299.99) but listed as a sale.. that page also shows the refurb costing $319.99.

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