Apple, Inc. asks Arizona governor to veto state gay discrimination bill

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  • Reply 181 of 294
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Emes View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

     

    Actually, most believers of the Bible calculate the age of the Earth to be 6,000 x 1,000 x 365 (extracted from wording that a thousand years is one day...I'm not even sure what the basis is on a "year" or a "day").  You have to admit though that every single theory on the creation of earth and animals is an incredible, almost mythical story.  And buying into any one of them requires a tremendous amount of FAITH. 




    The Semitic calculation of 5774 years began at the creation of Adam, not the world


    So six days difference?

  • Reply 182 of 294
    emesemes Posts: 239member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    So six days difference?




    Six days, six times a thousand days, nobody knows for sure

  • Reply 183 of 294
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Emes View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    So six days difference?




    Six days, six times a thousand days, nobody knows for sure


    Do you have any thoughts on the words "God Created" in 1:1? Someone told me it was the same word used as in 'created a wooden chair' for example, the chair was created from material that previously existed.

  • Reply 184 of 294
    emesemes Posts: 239member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Do you have any thoughts on the words "God Created" in 1:1? Someone told me it was the same word used as in 'created a wooden chair' for example, the chair was created from material that previously existed.




    The Sages postulate that there were other worlds that existed before ours. Another explanation is that God causes the Big Bang and went on from there. But the book of Genesis was never meant to be studied or examined. The point of the entire book is to provide a background showing that God created the Earth and as such it is His right to give it to whomever He wants.

     

    Like I said, no one knows for sure.

  • Reply 185 of 294
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Emes View Post

    Like I said, no one knows for sure.

    Seems like a lot of Christians think they know for sure about all kinds of things that are not even mentioned in the Bible.

  • Reply 186 of 294
    emesemes Posts: 239member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Seems like a lot of Christians think they know for sure about all kinds of things that are not even mentioned in the Bible.




    I wouldn't know. I'm not Christian

  • Reply 187 of 294
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I can see that but I think Spanish speakers pronounce it HEY-zoos.

    Speaking of Spanish, there is a student in my class whose name is Osama. I'd think it would suck to have a name that gets vilified. I imagine that the name Adolf was an extremely popular boy's name in Germany during a certain part of the 20th century and then dropped sharply for the rest of the 20th century. Just a hunch.

    The Spanish pronunciation is indeed 'hey-zoos' but how many non Hispanics have you meet that were named Jesus. Hector is another name that baffles me, how did a name from Greek mythology become so popular with hispanics? Yet I've never met one Greek person with it.

    You can add Cain and Judas to the vilified name list. :lol:
  • Reply 188 of 294
    dsddsd Posts: 186member

    I could never fathom how Ayn Rand libertarianism and fundamental Christianity melded. Mysterious ways indeed.

  • Reply 189 of 294
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

     

    Actually, most believers of the Bible calculate the age of the Earth to be 6,000 x 1,000 x 365 (extracted from wording that a thousand years is one day...I'm not even sure what the basis is on a "year" or a "day").  You have to admit though that every single theory on the creation of earth and animals is an incredible, almost mythical story.  And buying into any one of them requires a tremendous amount of FAITH. 


     

    No.  What we know, and what we haven't yet been able to understand, about the formation of the universe, the Earth, the birth of life, etc. -- none of that requires faith.

  • Reply 190 of 294
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    drewys808 wrote: »
    Actually, most believers of the Bible calculate the age of the Earth to be 6,000 x 1,000 x 365 (extracted from wording that a thousand years is one day...I'm not even sure what the basis is on a "year" or a "day").  You have to admit though that every single theory on the creation of earth and animals is an incredible, almost mythical story.  And buying into any one of them requires a tremendous amount of FAITH. 

    That's a misconception, that age is for mankind. There's no time frame given for when God created the heavens and the earth to when he created Adam.
  • Reply 191 of 294
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Seems like a lot of Christians think they know for sure about all kinds of things that are not even mentioned in the Bible.


    How would a non Christian know what is in the Bible or how to interpret the Bible? Is it a common practice for a non Christian to read and study the Bible in depth? I would seriously doubt there is anyone on this forum that could truly understand or interpret the King James Bible. So unless someone here has the King James Bible from 1611 there has been three revision of that version alone and over 100,000 changes. 

     

    Any Pastors on the forum? Anyone from the Bible belt that has their first Bible given to them as a young teen? Anyone?

  • Reply 192 of 294
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,602member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MojoRisinSD View Post



    Please, AppleInsider, stay away from politics. I would love it if Apple just stayed away from it too.

    While some people make this political, it's not inherently about politics.  It's about basic human rights.   A company cannot ignore the society that it does business in.   If we look at just one issue, hiring great employees, the employees who want to work for a corporation take into consideration the environment the office or plant exists in.    That includes everything from housing prices in the community, whether there is local culture, interesting people, good schools to whether or not they're going to feel comfortable and respected.    No company that values its employees and who "wants the best" can ignore that atmosphere any more than a quality company could ignore legal segregation (although too many did). 

     

    The action that companies take greatly affects the political atmosphere and money frequently talks.   "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem."

     

    What substantially helped to kill legal segregation in the South was the Montgomery bus boycott where blacks refused to take (and therefore didn't pay to use) the public transit system and also refused to shop in local stores.   Money eventually talked more than race and business people caved, especially when those opposed to segregation started boycotting chains in the North who practiced segregation in the South. 

     

    What substantially helped to kill Apartheid in South Africa was disinvestment by much of the western world.   In particular the various locals of the AFL-CIO pulled their pension funds out of all South African companies.

     

    What will kill this bill is the opposition by business.     It was a stupid, mean-spirited bill that was nothing but a cover for discrimination against gays pushed by the radical ultra-right.    It had absolutely nothing to do with religion, everything to do with hate and bias and it was a clear violation of the Constitution in any case.    If its proponents applied it equally to any so called violation of religious law, every person entering the business establishment would have to take some kind of religious litmus test.   And if that test was applied in church, it would have no members because few church members actually practice what it preaches. 

  • Reply 193 of 294
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    That's a misconception, that age is for mankind. There's no time frame given for when God created the heavens and the earth to when he created Adam.

    James Ussher, the Archbishop of Armagh (Church of Ireland) did establish a Creation Date, and forward from that to present day comes out to a bit over six thousand years.....

  • Reply 194 of 294

    "There are none so blind as those who will not see.

     

    I suggest you read Scripture carefully.



    It denounces those who reject what is their natural state and act unnaturally in defiance of their god. The 'abomination' as you so quaintly describe it is the rejection of that which God has given. Since most homosexuals are what they are not through any act of rebellion or choice, it would, in actual fact, be an abomination for them to be forced to be anything other than they are. 

     

    To go further, Jesus Christ preached acceptance of people as well as forgiveness and tolerance. He didn't once mention homosexuality, but what he DID say was that we should all take the beams of wood out of our own eyes before we start trying to pick specks of dust out of other people's eyes. He said this most emphatically and he appeared to have been annoyed when he said it: to that extent, you, I and everyone else have no business whatsoever in judging the actions of other people and deciding to withhold services or reject or discriminate. 

     

    This 'religious tolerance' bill, far from protecting people who are Christian is demonstrably and unarguably acting in contravention of the fundamental faith these people profess to believe in. In other words, they're all thundering hypocrites. 

     

    Apple is absolutely correct to object to this bill. Whether it does so for business reasons, political ones or simply out of an abundance of human charity and love, it is absolutely correct.

     

    By the way, I'm a committed Christian myself. I've read the Bible from cover to cover. There is nothing in it to support homophobia, discrimination and intolerance. Jesus Christ would be furious with a lot of the people who profess to speak in His name.

     

    This subject gets me angry."

     

    Likewise I would suggest that you also spend some time reading the scriptures carefully.  In Romans chapter 1, Paul  talks about the moral progression downward of those who rejected God.  It says that there were those who knew God but didn't think it worthwhile to honor God but turned aside to their own ways.  Therefore God gave them over to the sinful desires in their hearts to shameful lusts and unnatural sexual relations, men with men and women with women.  And BTW homosexuality is not the only sin mentioned here.  It goes on to talk about wickedness, greed, arrogance, depravity, etc. that overtook the human race.  But the source of all of this was rooted in the rejection of God.  

     

    The New Testament is clear that homosexuality is sin but it is only one of the sexual sins that are mentioned.  So is cheating on a spouse or sex outside of marriage.  I realize that these things don't line up with popular opinion these days but it is what the scriptures teach.  Yes Jesus was, and is, merciful to sinners but he doesn't accept sin.  He accepted the sinner but also admonished them to "go and sin no more."  He didn't mention homosexuality specifically but he did endorse the morality of the Old Testament which speaks against such practices.  I think the gay rights advocates have done a good job of convincing people that they have no choice in their sexual preference but I am not convinced that is true.    That argument can be used to justify all sorts of behavior.  Check out this article from the LA Times saying that pedophilia may be something that is a natural orientation.  Really?

     

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/14/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115

     

    I think this law came about as a result of some lawsuits that have been filed by gay activists against Christian bakeries in other states that would not make them a wedding cake for a gay marriage.  So being the tolerant person that you are, do you think it is right for someone who does not agree with homosexuality to be forced to participate in a gay wedding by making a cake for it?  You may not agree with them but do they have a right to conduct their business according to the standards they believe in?  Christians do not have the monopoly on bakeries, or any other line of business,  and I guarantee you there are plenty of places a gay couple can go to get a wedding cake.  Trying to force a business owner to conduct business in a way that they don't believe in, in the name of tolerance, smacks of an agenda that is being pushed in this country.  I think that is the issue this law is trying to address.

  • Reply 195 of 294
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    That's a misconception, that age is for mankind. There's no time frame given for when God created the heavens and the earth to when he created Adam.

    James Ussher, the Archbishop of Armagh (Church of Ireland) did establish a Creation Date, and forward from that to present day comes out to a bit over six thousand years.....


    So all this carbon dating thing where scientists are claiming many thousands of years ago humans were living here making tools, hunting, migrating, is all just rubbish then?

  • Reply 196 of 294
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rickwil61 View Post

     

    .......I think this law came about as a result of some lawsuits that have been filed by gay activists against Christian bakeries in other states that would not make them a wedding cake for a gay marriage.  So being the tolerant person that you are, do you think it is right for someone who does not agree with homosexuality to be forced to participate in a gay wedding by making a cake for it?  You may not agree with them but do they have a right to conduct their business according to the standards they believe in?  Christians do not have the monopoly on bakeries, or any other line of business,  and I guarantee you there are plenty of places a gay couple can go to get a wedding cake.  Trying to force a business owner to conduct business in a way that they don't believe in, in the name of tolerance, smacks of an agenda that is being pushed in this country.  I think that is the issue this law is trying to address.


    The people who I buy baked goods from? Have no part in any aspect of my life. People in the business of selling cakes to the public had better sell cakes to ALL the public. They're bakers, not arbiters of public wedding ceremonies. Need to get over themselves. And that Arizona law runs smack up against the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

  • Reply 197 of 294

    Well said 0yvind and cogitodexter! Besides that, AppleInsider did not speak with "biased voice" at all. They just reported the facts. It baffles me this bill was passed by the Arizona Legislature. It's beyond believe!

  • Reply 198 of 294
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    mstone wrote: »
    So all this carbon dating thing where scientists are claiming many thousands of years ago humans were living here making tools, hunting, migrating, is all just rubbish then?

    Carbon dating isn't as precise as it's made out to be, but I agree with you but even before humans there were dinosaurs.
  • Reply 199 of 294
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    Carbon dating isn't as precise as it's made out to be, but I agree with you but even before humans there were dinosaurs.

     

    Oh wow.  That's nice of you.  So you agree that people weren't wandering around with T-Rexs?  Cool.

     

    COME ON!  Go to Ars and read about the zircon.  Go ask any geologist.  You've got to be kidding me?

  • Reply 200 of 294
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by perealb View Post

     

    Well said 0yvind and cogitodexter! Besides that, AppleInsider did not speak with "biased voice" at all. They just reported the facts. It baffles me this bill was passed by the Arizona Legislature. It's beyond believe!


     

    I lived in AZ for one year -- more or less -- when I went to my one year of college at ASU.  Believe me: These people are messed up.  It doesn't surprise me in the least that they passed this.  Of course, when companies like AA, Marriot, and Apple (and others) say, "You'd better not pass this," they back away.

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