Sigh... Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC

belle · October 21, 2002 10:00AM

I guess it's about time I looked at finding a solution to mobile computing that doesn't require me to haul my 5lb iBook around once again.

I need something that'll allow me to compose fairly lengthy e-mails without too much hassle, and perhaps also other documents (Though I'm going to find it hard to give up my current habit of handwriting notes in a notebook and typing them up later).

There're a whole bunch of newfangled devices on the way running either Palm OS 5 or the latest version of Pocket PC - the new Sony Clies, the Palm Tungsten T, the new Compaq iPaqs, ...

Does anyone have any insights on the whole Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thing?

One thing: Synchronization isn't really a concern. To be useful, the device has to function independently.

trailmaster308 · October 21, 2002 10:45AM

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:

I guess it's about time I looked at finding a solution to mobile computing that doesn't require me to haul my 5lb iBook around once again.

I need something that'll allow me to compose fairly lengthy e-mails without too much hassle, and perhaps also other documents (Though I'm going to find it hard to give up my current habit of handwriting notes in a notebook and typing them up later).

There're a whole bunch of newfangled devices on the way running either Palm OS 5 or the latest version of Pocket PC - the new Sony Clies, the Palm Tungsten T, the new Compaq iPaqs, ...

Does anyone have any insights on the whole Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thing?

One thing: Synchronization isn't really a concern. To be useful, the device has to function independently.<hr></blockquote>

I cannot speak about OS5, but I can about PocketPC and iPaqs along with the Clie's & 4.1. I had a Sony Clie' T665 running OS 4.1. The device was extemely well made and beautiful looking. However, it always felt like a really expensive/cute "look at what I got toy". I did not find it any more useful than my cell phone, as I could do everything with it as with my PDA so I sold it. Again, 4.1 was on this guy, don't know about 5. Now the iPaqs are really cool. I know its running M$ but these guys are truley a mobile computing device. True web-browsing, full email clients, wireless ability and bluetooth. If a true mobile device is what you want I would definately go with the iPaq. I use them at work and they are so handy. Its nice to be able to walk into the server farm at work and not have to pull lug around my laptop. Just pull out my iPaq and I can do everything from there. If I were you I would check out Viewsonics new PocketPC V35. This bad little boy runs a new 300 Mhz Intel XScale proc. Just noticed the 400's in the iPaqs. I'm running the 206's and it never skips a beat. I can't imagine a 400.

Come November we will be getting the new Tablet PC's in from HP and will be testing them. If anyone would like I can take some pictures of these guys in action. For that matter I can take some pictures of the iPaqs in action. I'm kinda bored at work.

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: trailmaster308 ]

klinux · October 21, 2002 7:22PM

I would not go with an iPaq due to its lack of native CF slot. For example, it is very easily for me to plug-n-play a CF LAN 10 Mbit directly into a PocketPC and get an IP via DHCP. Ditto with a 56k modem card, 802.11b card, memory and so on. There are not that many accessories for the SD slot yet.

Viewsonic or Dell are good choices for their price/performance ratio.

As for PalmOS5 vs PocketPC, I would choose PPC. From a pure OS point of view, one runs an OS that has been extensively used and been updated in the last two years. One is a first generation release that adds functionalities that have been available in the other OS (mutli-tasking, DSP, etc.).

I do find synchronization to be very important though. Neither PPC nor Zaurus syncs with OSX. Grrr.

nagha · October 21, 2002 7:23PM

I prefer Palm-devices over PPC-devices for the same reason most people chose a PC over a Mac - they're cheaper and there's more of them out there. Most of my colleagues (95%+) use Palm-devices and it's simply easier to exchange information with them. Unlike computers, it's more important to be seamlessly compatible when you're working with many other people.

So, for my field (medicine), the Palm is the clear winner.

na

patchouli · October 21, 2002 8:55PM

I prefer PocketPC. I've had devices with Palm OS (Palm, Clie) and I didn't like them. They are always emulating something (office apps, multimedia). I just find Palm OS to be a bit limiting and boring. For a while the Palm advantage over PocketPC was size and price. Now, PocketPCs are just as small as Palm devices and at the same prices, but offer loads more RAM, power and options.

To bottom line it, if you want a device to simply organize your contacts, to do lists, and calendar, then get a Palm. If you want a PC in your pocket that does everything a palm does with a higher resolution backlit LCD viewing 16k colors, seamless integrating with office files and email, wireless internet, photo, movie, and MP3 playing as well as a tiny gaming device, then get a PocketPC.

ViewSonic is coming out with a sweet one (the V35). It has a backlit trans-reflective stunning display (most have side lit), 300MHz Xscale Processor, 64MB RAM, 32MB (flash) ROM, SD Card Slot, Jog Dial, Directional Pad, PocketPC 2002, Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Pocket Outlook, Pocket IE, AdvantGo, ClearView (PowerPoint), WMP 8, eBook Reader and so on. You can install ALL additional apps in the SD Card slot (I have about 120 programs loaded on my 128MB SD Card in my soon to be sold iPaq) so the device RAM is left intact to run everything nicely. All of this is a VERY thin and light package (only 4.2oz). Price? $299.

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]

matsu · October 21, 2002 9:18PM

I might very well be the most anti-PDA/pad person you could possibly find, but I migh just change my mind.

For me color doesn't matter, as long as the display is sharp and legible in all lighting conditions. What really interests me is voice and battery life. I want to be able to record a few hours at a time (a few dozens of hours actually) in digital format and then archive my voice notes on my computer. Transcription would be a dazzling bonus, but I'm not counting on it to be anything better than yet another techno-tedium for at least another decade. Actually, I don't even want to work that way, I don't want to have to hear myself when I write (if that makes any sense). There are digital voice recorders of course, but their capacity is limited. Ideally a PDA/voice recorder would let me store hundreds of hours of voice notes on my PDA (MP3, audible, whatever) in a database. I'd have clear labels on everything, chapter marks on longer passages, and some written or graphic notes to go along with it. Just a little text/database functionality to organize my voice notes, that's all. Naturally, the built-in mic would have to be a high-quality piece with intelligent noise compensation algorythims, I don't wnat to record a room full of hiss and or shuffling papers, I just want a record of what people said and when they said it.

Des anybody make something like this? I would pay quite a bit for such a device, dare I say, even Jobsian prices...

aries 1b · October 21, 2002 9:46PM

My Palm III screen seems to be dead. So now I'm in the market for a new PDA.

I have been waiting for the New Apple PDA since Steve Jobs threw the Newton off of the Apple lifeboat. I have been waiting for the arrival of the NAPDA to purchase a new computer (Looking real hard at the 17"iMac). Realistically, I must assume that the NAPDA is not coming. Okay, fine. Lookee here:

I WILL NOT purchase a computer that does not SEEMLESSLY integrate with my next PDA. The Apple/Palm interface is a kluge, a clanking monstrosity compared to the interface between WindowsOS and the damned iPaqs, and it makes me angry as all

G O D

D A M N E D

hell to have to write that, but it is the truth.

The Palm OS/screen combo is dogmeat compared to the iPaq. Palm rested on their laurels, or yankovitch (whatever his name was) was a Microsoft spy and 'held them back'; whatever. The iPaq is a true handheld computer and the Palm (I haven't seen Palm OS 5, but haven't detected any excited 'buzz') is... old and limited.

I keep hearing that the iPaq will synch (currently in a limited fashion) with MacOS X. If the iPaq synching gets to be as full featured and as invisible with MacOS X as it is with Windows, then I'll go with the iPaq and OS X and stick with the Apple platform. If not...

... then I'll continue to use my goddamned clipboard and paper at work and stick with OS X and look enviously at the Windows world with their integrated Desktops, PDAs, Tablets, and (oh yeah) their Apple iPods.

Yours in low blood sugar,

Aries 1B

tht · October 21, 2002 9:58PM

Originally posted by Belle:

I need something that'll allow me to compose fairly lengthy e-mails without too much hassle, and perhaps also other documents

I think you're going to be disappointed. All of the devices come with some drawbacks, and input is one of them. Maybe a Blackberry will service your needs.

There're a whole bunch of newfangled devices on the way running either Palm OS 5 or the latest version of Pocket PC - the new Sony Clies, the Palm Tungsten T, the new Compaq iPaqs, ...

Does anyone have any insights on the whole Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thing?

Palm OS 5 will lose because Pocket PC has a monopolist behind it?

No, I think Palm will retreat to cell phones - maybe - while Pocket PC will take over the handheld computer market. Essentially, Palm OS is way behind the curve in features (and Microsoft support) and isn't going to catch up with Pocket PC in features. Machines just grew into Pocket PC, so it is starting to hit its sweet spot.

As stated prior, I'm a Samsung fan, and the <a href="http://www.samsungelectronics.com/wow/product/product_NEXIO-S160.asp"; target="_blank">NEXiO S160</a> could be your ticket.

I'm waiting for the Samsung i500 or i600 myself.

matsu · October 21, 2002 10:55PM

Here you go Belle, meet <a href="http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana_overview.html"; target="_blank">Dana</a>

belle · October 22, 2002 2:14PM

Thank you for all the responses.

[quote]Originally posted by trailblazer308:

If a true mobile device is what you want I would definately go with the iPaq. I use them at work and they are so handy. Its nice to be able to walk into the server farm at work and not have to pull lug around my laptop. Just pull out my iPaq and I can do everything from there.<hr></blockquote>

This is just the kind of testimonial I was looking for. I spend an awful lot of time wandering around our lab, and all over the campus, and can't be bothered to take my laptop with me.

[quote]Originally posted by klinux:

I would not go with an iPaq due to its lack of native CF slot.<hr></blockquote>

It's not really a concern. The upcoming iPaqs apparently have a whole range of networking options available built-in.

[quote]Originally posted by THT:

I think you're going to be disappointed. All of the devices come with some drawbacks, and input is one of them. Maybe a Blackberry will service your needs.<hr></blockquote>

Oh, I know I'm going to be disappointed. Just read any of my previous posts regarding PDAs and tablet PCs.

But honestly, it's got to the point where carrying around a laptop is becoming a pain in the ass.

I will have a look at the Blackberry option, though.

[quote]Palm OS 5 will lose because Pocket PC has a monopolist behind it?<hr></blockquote>

I have to admit, I've become a lot less of a brand snob, and the manufacturer doesn't bother me at all. I just want whatever suits my needs best. I even prefer my new ThinkPad to my iBook (And my PowerBook G4 before that). I know, it's sacrilege.

[quote]No, I think Palm will retreat to cell phones - maybe - while Pocket PC will take over the handheld computer market. Essentially, Palm OS is way behind the curve in features (and Microsoft support) and isn't going to catch up with Pocket PC in features. Machines just grew into Pocket PC, so it is starting to hit its sweet spot.<hr></blockquote>

Well, Handspring certainly seems to think that cell phones are the way to go.

[quote]As stated prior, I'm a Samsung fan, and the NEXiO S160 could be your ticket.

I'm waiting for the Samsung i500 or i600 myself.<hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure that it's what I need. I really just want my phone to make calls, and act as a modem if necessary. I'd prefer my palmtop to come with other networking options, such as 802.11. And though the HWR on both Palm and PocketPC machines may not be great, it's going to be quicker than predictive text input on a numerical keypad, right? Right?!

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:

Here you go Belle, meet Dana<hr></blockquote>

Oh dear gods, that's horrible. It's also 2lbs, and if I'm going to carry that around, I'd rather splurge on <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9683x7018x9032&catid=9032&itemid=44 421&viewall=true" target="_blank">this</a>. Or <a href="http://www.transmetazone.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1067"; target="_blank">this</a>!

[ 10-22-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]

torifile · October 22, 2002 8:00PM

Belle,

I was actually in the same dilemma as you. I've been looking/waiting for something to replace my trusty newt (which I sold after decided to get rid of classic). I saw the first Palm OS 5 devices and I'm STILL not impressed. So I took the plunge and got a PPC.

I got the Toshiba e740. Nice little machine. Built in 802.11b, 64megs of RAM, 32 of ROM. 400mhz XScale proc. It all sounds very impressive, but it's still not that great. PPC applications are larger than Palm ones. They run slower too. Even on a '400mhz' proc. They're more expensive, there's less of it. And syncing is a pain.

I know you say that syncing is not a primary concern, but you need to connect to the computer to install many apps. Some, you can just download and that's cool, but other require you to sync to install them. Also, if there's ever a ROM update (like there will be shortly for PPC 2002), you've got to have a reliable connection. I'm using VPC to sync and I thought that was the reason I was having problems, but I found <a href="http://discussion.brighthand.com"; target="_blank">http://discussion.brighthand.com</a>; and realized it wasn't because VPC sucks donkey balls. ActiveSync does. (Though VPC does it share of equine fellatio.)

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the PPC but only because it's all that's out there. Check out the brighthand.com forums. It's pretty active over there. HTH.

nebrie · October 22, 2002 8:55PM

Having used a Palm and a Pocket PC before, I went for the Palm which I found more simple to use versus the Pocket PC which while better than my Windows CE device was still a pain in the but to use. I didnt find multimedia that great (I'd rather watch on a desktop) and battery life was disappointing... but the games were great and hard to give up. For email, I recommend a Tmobile Sidekick (Danger Hiptop). It's great and tiny and has a good battery life. Don't pick a device based on a bunch of fanatics. Figure out what you will do on a pda the most, and buy the PDA that is strongest in that area.

david r · October 23, 2002 12:31AM

I like the PalmOS because I can concentrate on the task at hand. With WinCE it seems that you have to worry about the OS as well as the apps. (Sounds familiar?)

The battery life is also a heck of a lot better in Palm devices, but then you don't get as many bells and whistles (which aren't important to me)

Most of us at work use PalmOS PDAs. One department decided to go with iPAQs, 2 weeks later they returned them and got Palms and we have yet to hear a negative comment from them. They didn't like the bulk of the iPAQ, the OS and the poor battery life.

So think of what's important for you and go with that.

thuh freak · October 23, 2002 12:49AM

at work, all execs were given palms a few years back, so they could be reached via email (and send email) all the time (they'd been granted cells a few years earlier, and prolly beepers b4 that; basically the company keeps up with the kewl gadgets). now they've been given blackberries. and my aunt (one of the execs at the co.) loves it. its got a keyboard. and its fits into ur pocket (or the holster). it doesn't weigh too much nor waste energy on a stupid ms "mini" os. if u dont need all the extra shit on ppc or palm, dont get it. blackberries are definitely cool; ppcs are not.

the co. bought a ipaq for the IS dept to play with and see how useful it'd be as a blackberry replacement. it weighs a metric ton, and could barely fit into my chest cavity. the guy who gets to play with it likes it, cuz he plays games during meetings and shit, but u can do that with any handheld.

defiant · October 23, 2002 2:16AM

[quote]Originally posted by torifile:

Belle,

I was actually in the same dilemma as you. I've been looking/waiting for something to replace my trusty newt (which I sold after decided to get rid of classic).<hr></blockquote>

hey torifile, you can sync the newton in OS 10. even native. I don't have to start classic and he even syncs with my adress book. impressive for dead technology, no ?

torifile · October 23, 2002 6:56AM

[quote]Originally posted by Defiant:



hey torifile, you can sync the newton in OS 10. even native. I don't have to start classic and he even syncs with my adress book. impressive for dead technology, no ?<hr></blockquote>

Of course this would finally happen AFTER I decide to send my newt to Switzerland.

Stupid luck, I've got.

I'm glad it's working out for you.

On another note, I finally got my PPC to sync via Airport.

It seems all the connection problems people have are related to using USB and over Airport it works fine and reliably. Mark that off my list of complaints. Of course, VPC still sucks.

matsu · October 23, 2002 7:24AM

I don't see it Belle. The Dana is only 399 (compared to 2000+ for the subnotes you describe. It will beat the snot out of any PDA for any kind of lenghty writing/data entry. It has 3X the width of a Palm display. Has USB and two MMC/SDcard slots (if you require bluetooth/802.11, SDcard modules are out there or comming for PalmOS4.1). It runs Palm OS4.1, can use regular AA batteries, has huge battery life, and is supposed to be virtually indestructible. No docking, just plug in USB. It has a full word processor and Office file compatibility, it reads mail, has palm reader, prints directly to USB or irDA printers.

So it's huge and ugly, but it works.

defiant · October 23, 2002 8:39AM

[quote]Originally posted by torifile:

Of course this would finally happen AFTER I decide to send my newt to Switzerland.

Stupid luck, I've got.

I'm glad it's working out for you.

On another note, I finally got my PPC to sync via Airport.

It seems all the connection problems people have are related to using USB and over Airport it works fine and reliably.<hr></blockquote>

you know, newTen, the app I use for transfering packages to my newt is available since some time... and nSync beta, the app for syncing with the adress book since some days. and, I can sync my newton also over airport with my mac.

and even a VNC connection is possible...

newton dead ? dream on !

[ 10-23-2002: Message edited by: Defiant ]

belle · October 23, 2002 10:50AM

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:

I don't see it Belle.

...

So it's huge and ugly, but it works.<hr></blockquote>

I just feel that, given cost isn't an issue, I'd rather carry around a full-blown 2lb laptop than a 21b Palm.

Part of my concern over the Dana is that, having owned a Visor for a while, I hate Palm OS. That is, in part, why I started the thread - to see if the shiny new Palm OS 5 offered any radical improvements over the current versions.

I didn't mean to seem ungrateful for the link.

matsu · October 23, 2002 11:00AM

I'm still waiting for (high quality and high storage capacity) voice recording (possibly with limited dictation abilities) in a cheap PDA package that will easily transfer my voice files to PC for archiving.

It seems to me that an iPod with a MIC would be perfect for this, but Apple doen't make one

outsider · October 23, 2002 2:41PM

How about the sidekick?

<a href="http://www.hiptop.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.hiptop.com/</a>;

it offers internet, email, AIM, is a handy phone, and one of the best thumb keyboards I have ever used. I recently used one at a store and was quite impressed. It's $200 not including a monthly phone plan but consider it killing 2 birds with one stone.

Sigh... Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC

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