I always liked the psion; compact, almost full-size keyboard, and did the job.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are they even still selling PDA's? I thought they quit and were just working on the EPOC OS (isn't it Symbian now?). I had a revo+ for a while. Not bad but lots of problems syncing with windows. Are we noticing a trend or what?
<strong>The Dell certainly looks like a nice sub-notebook. My only objection, and I know I'm being fussy, is the size. I'm looking for something smaller as well as lighter, which is one reason I'm looking at palmtops.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's always a back and forth between small size and useability. The iBook is very useable, but a bit large and heavy for our needs. The Dell gets a bit closer. The Sony Picturebook would be perfect in terms of size and weight, but it might come short on useability. As we discussed years ago in this forum, the Picturebook's keyboard has an impractical layout. Unless Sony has made significant changes to the keyboard, that would probably still be a deal-killer for me.
[quote]<strong>I think if I'm honest (and listened to my friends) I get on with my work so I can ignore my illness. If I stopped and sat and thought about things for any length of time, I'd probably fall apart.</strong><hr></blockquote>
We only have a limited amount of energy. Thus, life is all about setting priorities for extending that limited amount of energy. We're always better off putting energy into work or other productive activities than wasting energy worrying or wishing we could change things which we cannot change. I have found that plowing ahead is always better than languishing in self-pity.
[quote]<strong>I think the thread was doomed the moment I posted it. </strong><hr></blockquote>
It's just that you will have to wait until "Early 2003" to get your hands on a Tungsten W. Who the hell came up with that name anyway? Zire maybe. But Tungsten?
To me personally, SonyEricsson's T68i still looks more attractive and useful than any of these newfangled Palms. If I can't have a real keyboard, I might as well be able to put the device in my pocket and leave my Timbuk2 <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/peewee.html"; target="_blank">Pee Wee</a> behind.
<strong>We just can't help but flog certain dead horses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know, it's not a dead horse yet. Technology is moving fast, and I'm certain we'll have a solution soon enough. It may not be the sub-notebook we were expecting, though. One thing is for sure, I'm not holding my breath waiting for Apple to provide anything useful in this regard.
[quote]<strong>It's just that you will have to wait until "Early 2003" to get your hands on a Tungsten W. Who the hell came up with that name anyway? Zire maybe. But Tungsten?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I find it quite odd that, unless I'm mistaken, there's no Graffiti pad under that keyboard, and no "virtual" Graffiti like the Sony Clies. A Palm without Graffiti seems very odd. The keyboard looks nasty, though.
[quote]<strong>To me personally, SonyEricsson's T68i still looks more attractive and useful than any of these newfangled Palms. If I can't have a real keyboard, I might as well be able to put the device in my pocket and leave my Timbuk2 <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/peewee.html"; target="_blank">Pee Wee</a> behind.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I played around with the T68i, and can only see it being useful as a supplement to a notebook or PDA. It wouldn't allow me to leave either of those items at home, at least when I'm working.
I may well have to resort to that most disgusting of abhorrence, the PDA + folding keyboard combo. I know, I know. I'm selling out. Going against all my principals.
I'm working on taking the first stage along a new road, where all my data will be stored on a server, where I can access it from any device wherever it may be. Then I can just play around with any devices I can get my hands on until I find the one that suits, and won't have to keep transferring stuff between them.
It looks like it may be sensible to wait until December or January before making a decision, anyway, there are a whole bunch of new phones and PDAs due to appear over the next two or three months.
Speaking of Timbuk2, those lovely people have introduced a new bag, the <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/elcentro.html"; target="_blank">El Centro</a>, which is designed to carry an iBook in comfort. It's even described as "Mac-alicious".
I still look forward to the day I can just carry my Porkchop, and leave the other bags at home...
personally i think that the tungsten is where its at. It is the smallest pda available, finally has a high rez screen, built in bluetooth to connect to my t68, and finally a decent arm proccessor. I currently have a Clie NR70V(which does sync with OSX, look for missing sync), and it has extra bells over the palms such as mp3 and high rez movie playback. I DONT USE ANY OF THESE. I would like something like the treo 270, but with the size and advancements of the Tungsten. iPaq's in my humble opinion are pretty worthless. No one in their right mind would care about games on a pda. The whole market is going to be pushed aside by cell phones, even microsoft knows this. Thats why they are finishing up another OS, this time for cell phones.
An interesting thing to look at is the NX series by sony. Essentially it has OS 5 and a CF slot that may eventually be able to run microdrives. I know that the battery issue would have to be resolved, but that would be a mean combo. You would be able to load entire movies in high rez, plus a coupla hours of mp3s and pictures. It also has a 640x480 digital camera that can record continuous mp4. I believe that with the advent of arm proccessors, palms will be more appealing than ppcs because they will still have much better battery with the catch up in speed(actually it will run faster because pocket pc is bloatware in comparison to palm os).
<strong> No one in their right mind would care about games on a pda. The whole market is going to be pushed aside by cell phones, even microsoft knows this. Thats why they are finishing up another OS, this time for cell phones.
<snip> You would be able to load entire movies in high rez, plus a coupla hours of mp3s and pictures. It also has a 640x480 digital camera that can record continuous mp4. I believe that with the advent of arm proccessors, palms will be more appealing than ppcs because they will still have much better battery with the catch up in speed(actually it will run faster because pocket pc is bloatware in comparison to palm os).</strong><hr></blockquote>
First, Pocket PC 2000, 2002 and Phone Edition are all Windows CE 3.0 with different GUI and modules. Not an entirely different OS.
But the battery life of those PDA's way back in 2000 wasn't too good, especially not when compared to palm. PocketPC is getting better though, and as Palms add more features/power/brighter screens they're getting hungrier, so the battery life of the two platforms is getting closer.
I think a PDA ought to have at least a solid week of standby time and 24 hours of continuous use. It's supposed to be ready anywhere, and it won't be if you're always looking for a plug or have a nightly docking ritual.
<strong>I may well have to resort to that most disgusting of abhorrence, the PDA + folding keyboard combo.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Belle: I've been re-considering that option as well, while I send in my iBook to have the backlight problem fixed. Have you seen PalmInfocenter's review of the <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4479"; target="_blank">Palm Ultra-thin Keyboard</a>? BTW, I highly recommend <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/"; target="_blank">PalmInfocenter</a> as the best source of Palm-related news. They also have an excellent <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4490"; target="_blank">Tungsten T review</a>. (Any chance that our apple_otaku and their Palm_Otaku are one and the same person?)
[quote]<strong>I'm working on taking the first stage along a new road, where all my data will be stored on a server, where I can access it from any device wherever it may be. Then I can just play around with any devices I can get my hands on until I find the one that suits, and won't have to keep transferring stuff between them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess that's where Microsoft's .NET and Apple's .Mac are supposed to lead us ultimately. For me personally, this is going to be especially important with e-mail. Right now I carry my iBook and dowload all of my POP e-mail. Without my iBook, I don't have my e-mail. I really should start taking advantage of IMAP and leave at least my recent mail on the server. That is especially true now that I have paid up for my .Mac membership and could conceivably use .Mac webmail to check on my other e-mail accounts. I guess it's a matter of sitting down for a day and configuring everything for easy use.
Also, my brother-in-law leads a team of wireless analysts for one of the major research firms. He's visiting down here next weekend and will bring some new toys. Maybe he'll have some good suggestions, even though his research and knowledge centers on network infrastructure rather than handheld hardware.
[quote]<strong>Speaking of Timbuk2, those lovely people have introduced a new bag, the <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/elcentro.html"; target="_blank">El Centro</a>, which is designed to carry an iBook in comfort... I still look forward to the day I can just carry my Porkchop, and leave the other bags at home...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Size-wise, I still favor my 700 cu in Pee Wee (with a Waterfield iBook sleeve) over the larger Sweet Pea (1000 cu in) and new El Centro (1300 cu in). Being able to fit our gear in the tiny Pork Chop may be a pipe dream. (For us guys, it's also too much like a girly purse. ) Of course, I'll be waiting to get a microchip implant in my earlobe even longer.
<strong>But the battery life of those PDA's way back in 2000 wasn't too good, especially not when compared to palm. PocketPC is getting better though, and as Palms add more features/power/brighter screens they're getting hungrier, so the battery life of the two platforms is getting closer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The advances in battery technology over the last couple of years had made so much difference to this area. Just looking around at these handhelds, and especially new cell phones, things are so much better! The standby and talk time on most new cells is phenomenal compared to my old Nokia.
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>I've been re-considering that option as well, while I send in my iBook to have the backlight problem fixed. Have you seen PalmInfocenter's review of the Palm Ultra-thin Keyboard? BTW, I highly recommend PalmInfocenter as the best source of Palm-related news.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It was a mention of that keyboard that made me consider this as an option. I think it's something I'll have to try out in a store before I go ahead, though. While I've been researching this whole thing, the three sites I've found most useful are <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com"; target="_blank">PalmInfoCenter</a>, <a href="http://www.infosync.no"; target="_blank">infoSync</a>, and <a href="http://www.gizmodo.com"; target="_blank">Gizmodo</a>.
[quote]<strong>I guess that's where Microsoft's .NET and Apple's .Mac are supposed to lead us ultimately. For me personally, this is going to be especially important with e-mail. Right now I carry my iBook and dowload all of my POP e-mail. Without my iBook, I don't have my e-mail. I really should start taking advantage of IMAP and leave at least my recent mail on the server. That is especially true now that I have paid up for my .Mac membership and could conceivably use .Mac webmail to check on my other e-mail accounts. I guess it's a matter of sitting down for a day and configuring everything for easy use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
At the moment, this approach is making a lot of sense to me. I'm not entirely sure I trust Apple or Microsoft to keep my data for me. Backups, for sure, but I'm not happy about live data. I think I'm a bit of a control freak in this respect. I also have a plan for a little sideline business that a little box acting as a data center would be perfect for.
[quote]<strong>Also, my brother-in-law leads a team of wireless analysts for one of the major research firms. He's visiting down here next weekend and will bring some new toys. Maybe he'll have some good suggestions, even though his research and knowledge centers on network infrastructure rather than handheld hardware.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exciting! Please report back.
[quote]<strong>Size-wise, I still favor my 700 cu in Pee Wee (with a Waterfield iBook sleeve) over the larger Sweet Pea (1000 cu in) and new El Centro (1300 cu in). Being able to fit our gear in the tiny Pork Chop may be a pipe dream. (For us guys, it's also too much like a girly purse. ) Of course, I'll be waiting to get a microchip implant in my earlobe even longer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Pee Wee is still my favorite, but I'm glad that Timbuk2 is so Mac-friendly. And I don't think the Porkchop is particularly girly, is it? I guess it depends on the color. It's just the right size for a paperback, a notebook and pencil, a cell phone, a purse, car keys, and I could easily fit a Palm or iPaq in there, too.
<strong>But the battery life of those PDA's way back in 2000 wasn't too good, especially not when compared to palm. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not necessarily true as you are comparing color PDAs with CF slots and such to a monochrome device. If you were to compare a PPC with say a Visor Prism (with or without a module), you will find that their battery life is comparable and both suck compared to Palm V [which is a revolutionary product, BTW, when it entered the market].
I don't have it in front of me but I believe my Casio E-125 (2000 model) has a 1100 mAh battery which is still pretty good by today's standard.
<strong>At the moment, this approach is making a lot of sense to me. I'm not entirely sure I trust Apple or Microsoft to keep my data for me. Backups, for sure, but I'm not happy about live data. I think I'm a bit of a control freak in this respect. I also have a plan for a little sideline business that a little box acting as a data center would be perfect for.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's my main beef with the Danger Hiptop: Who's storing my data? Where? I'd mind less if there was also a way to sync the data to a machine of my choice, but alas.
The main reason I wouldn't worry if Apple did something similar with .Mac is that they appear to be using standards in earnest: If they use WebDAV for any similar device and point to the .Mac servers by default, it should be possible to set the server to your own choice as is possible with iCal. In fact, that would be a huge win for businesses and education customers looking to use the devices, not just geeks with their own servers and SDSL at home.
To date, not one of these little gadgets has inspired more than idle curiosity in me. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a reason to buy one.
<strong>The main reason I wouldn't worry if Apple did something similar with .Mac is that they appear to be using standards in earnest: If they use WebDAV for any similar device and point to the .Mac servers by default, it should be possible to set the server to your own choice as is possible with iCal. In fact, that would be a huge win for businesses and education customers looking to use the devices, not just geeks with their own servers and SDSL at home.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, who're you calling a geek, buddy?
The reason I distrust .Mac and .NET is that I've had problems with online services a number of times, and though it's nice to have someone to blame for lost data, in the end it's just incredibly frustrating when they can't bring it back. I've lost e-mails because of .Mac (Well, it was still iTools back then), I've lost backups because my online backup service screwed up, I've lost a days worth of data from an SQL database because my ISP managed to delete my entire web space. I know all these things could go wrong on my own server, but at least I care specifically about my data and will go to the ends of the Earth to make sure it's safe.
[quote]<strong>To date, not one of these little gadgets has inspired more than idle curiosity in me. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a reason to buy one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sigh. This is my problem. I know already that I'll end up impulse-buying a Tungsten or iPaq or something similar after Christmas, use it for a few weeks while it's new and interesting and I have features to discover, then consign it to my technology graveyard.
But I feel more strongly than ever that my laptop has become my albatross. I carry it around at work. It occupies the passenger seat of my car. It sits on my desk at home. It weighs down my hand luggage on flights. It sits in my bag on the floor at bars and restaurants and calls to me once in a while to check it's safe and hasn't been stolen. And it's got a bunch of little parasitic cables and adapters it needs to survive.
Why do I carry it? Because it holds the information I need for work. I need to view the data, and I need to add data. But really these days there's no need to carry all the data around. I just need a device to view it, and add to it. Something that's not the size of a Comp. Sci. textbook and weighs as much as a newborn baby.
I think I may have a whole new set of psychological techno-issues here.
<strong>Hey, who're you calling a geek, buddy?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You. You gotta problem wit' dat, lady?
[quote]<strong>The reason I distrust .Mac and .NET is that I've had problems with online services a number of times, and though it's nice to have someone to blame for lost data, in the end it's just incredibly frustrating when they can't bring it back.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's why I specified that the main reason I trusted .Mac more than others was because you could probably swap in another server. Not because of Apple's incredible reliability.
Also, Apple is more likely to allow syncing with a local Mac (via iSync, perhaps? ), and that's a make-or-break issue for me.
[quote]<strong>But I feel more strongly than ever that my laptop has become my albatross. I carry it around at work. It occupies the passenger seat of my car. It sits on my desk at home. It weighs down my hand luggage on flights. It sits in my bag on the floor at bars and restaurants and calls to me once in a while to check it's safe and hasn't been stolen. And it's got a bunch of little parasitic cables and adapters it needs to survive.
Why do I carry it? Because it holds the information I need for work. I need to view the data, and I need to add data. But really these days there's no need to carry all the data around. I just need a device to view it, and add to it. Something that's not the size of a Comp. Sci. textbook and weighs as much as a newborn baby.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's the need to add data that's the rub, isn't it? After all, an iPod is perfectly capable of browsing most data. I'm not enough of a gadget monster to spend hundreds of dollars on something I have to poke at through an obscure interface retrofitted awkwardly onto a dial pad, and the alternatives aren't there yet.
[quote]<strong>I think I may have a whole new set of psychological techno-issues here. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not going to say anything.
I do understand the desire for the Ideal PDA. I'm disorganized enough to seriously benefit from one. But there are no ideal PDAs, just a whole lot of $600 near misses.
Unfortunately for the vendors, if I'm going to spend $600, it's going to be on a solid hit. My technological graveyard fits in a milk crate (2400 baud modem, anyone? Anyone?!).
<strong>You. You gotta problem wit' dat, lady?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh... No. Just sayin'.
[quote]<strong>It's the need to add data that's the rub, isn't it? After all, an iPod is perfectly capable of browsing most data. I'm not enough of a gadget monster to spend hundreds of dollars on something I have to poke at through an obscure interface retrofitted awkwardly onto a dial pad, and the alternatives aren't there yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm beginning to think that Matsu may be thinking along the right lines. (Yes! I know! It surprised me too. I never thought I'd hear myself saying such a thing! ) High quality voice recognition may just be the way for PDAs to go. Get those mathematicians working on their FFTs. You can put it on a DSP chip. I think that this could become an even more valuable technology now cell phones and PDAs are merging.
Certainly for the basic functions of a Palm device - appointments, to do lists, address book - it's really not going to be too difficult to parse the language required.
[quote]<strong>I'm not going to say anything.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd advise against it. Though it's not my first flirtation with techno-insanity. Way back in the deep mists of time, I remember spending a horrendous amount of time playing Populous on the Amiga, and having nightmares about the game. I would hear that "gooonnnggg" that indicated your enemy had created a knight long after I'd finished playing and switched off the computer. I also developed "mouse finger", a temporary RSI brought about by clicking madly to repair the damage caused by your enemy "volcanoing" you. Anyway.
[quote]<strong>I do understand the desire for the Ideal PDA. I'm disorganized enough to seriously benefit from one. But there are no ideal PDAs, just a whole lot of $600 near misses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The thing is that in my mind, $600 is about what I'd be willing to pay at the top end. But for something that's a million times more usable than what's available today.
[quote]<strong>My technological graveyard fits in a milk crate (2400 baud modem, anyone? Anyone?!).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do pass on most of my old hardware to friends, but there are some things that people just don't want.
I still have that Amiga and Populous somewhere, I think...
The tungsten is half the size of the iPaqs, and has a higher rez screen. I can watch movies in full 320 x 480, something that the PPCs still dont do because their screen isnt that big. Also, my note above having all those songs and movies was about the storage ability of the microdrive, not the playing of the movies themselves. Next time please pay attention when you read my posts.
<strong>I'm beginning to think that Matsu may be thinking along the right lines. (Yes! I know! It surprised me too. I never thought I'd hear myself saying such a thing! ) High quality voice recognition may just be the way for PDAs to go. Get those mathematicians working on their FFTs. You can put it on a DSP chip. I think that this could become an even more valuable technology now cell phones and PDAs are merging.
Certainly for the basic functions of a Palm device - appointments, to do lists, address book - it's really not going to be too difficult to parse the language required.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmmm.
The TI chip in the Tungsten is a nifty dual-core jobber with an ARM processor and a DSP stuck together - and, it seems, running at different clockspeeds(!). So there's your platform for running FFTs. According to the Palmsource article linked a little ways back in this thread, OS 6 is going to be the really interesting one, and that's due next summer/fall (next fall is going to rock!). So maybe Palm is heading in this general direction.
They've also abstracted away the HWR engine in OS 5, so that Graffiti can be replaced by a third party - or future Palm - HWR engine without any of the underlying apps noticing. Sweet.
Very interesting indeed! Thanks, torifile. I gathered from the thread that this thing runs Linux? That may require a little work on my part, but still very interesting. I followed the link through to the Samsung device, but it has one of those horrid keyboards.
[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>Hmmm.
The TI chip in the Tungsten is a nifty dual-core jobber with an ARM processor and a DSP stuck together - and, it seems, running at different clockspeeds(!). So there's your platform for running FFTs. According to the Palmsource article linked a little ways back in this thread, OS 6 is going to be the really interesting one, and that's due next summer/fall (next fall is going to rock!). So maybe Palm is heading in this general direction.
They've also abstracted away the HWR engine in OS 5, so that Graffiti can be replaced by a third party - or future Palm - HWR engine without any of the underlying apps noticing. Sweet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Also very interesting! I take it if the HWR has been completely abstracted, then it needn't just be replaced (or supplemented) by another HWR system - you could use any kind of input.
Perhaps if the PDA manufacturers won't go with voice recognition, some third party may once Palm OS 6 is available.
Oh, and Outsider, I didn't just ignore your suggestion about Psion - I'm heading over to a store this afternoon to check them out.
Must be the battle for second in the PDA/handheld computer world.
If you're not going to get a Newton, I personally like the Danger Hiptop more than either of the other two offerings. It does help, though, if you're in their coverage area.
Comments
<strong>Belle, have you ever considered the Psion? they have a loyal following and are very compact.
<a href="http://www.psion.com/computers/computing.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.psion.com/computers/computing.htm</a>;
I always liked the psion; compact, almost full-size keyboard, and did the job.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are they even still selling PDA's? I thought they quit and were just working on the EPOC OS (isn't it Symbian now?). I had a revo+ for a while. Not bad but lots of problems syncing with windows. Are we noticing a trend or what?
<strong>The Dell certainly looks like a nice sub-notebook. My only objection, and I know I'm being fussy, is the size. I'm looking for something smaller as well as lighter, which is one reason I'm looking at palmtops.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's always a back and forth between small size and useability. The iBook is very useable, but a bit large and heavy for our needs. The Dell gets a bit closer. The Sony Picturebook would be perfect in terms of size and weight, but it might come short on useability. As we discussed years ago in this forum, the Picturebook's keyboard has an impractical layout. Unless Sony has made significant changes to the keyboard, that would probably still be a deal-killer for me.
[quote]<strong>I think if I'm honest (and listened to my friends) I get on with my work so I can ignore my illness. If I stopped and sat and thought about things for any length of time, I'd probably fall apart.</strong><hr></blockquote>
We only have a limited amount of energy. Thus, life is all about setting priorities for extending that limited amount of energy. We're always better off putting energy into work or other productive activities than wasting energy worrying or wishing we could change things which we cannot change. I have found that plowing ahead is always better than languishing in self-pity.
[quote]<strong>I think the thread was doomed the moment I posted it.
We just can't help but flog certain dead horses.
[quote]<strong>Thank you, THT. The wireless version is <a href="http://palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-w/"; target="_blank">here</a>.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's just that you will have to wait until "Early 2003" to get your hands on a Tungsten W. Who the hell came up with that name anyway? Zire maybe. But Tungsten?
To me personally, SonyEricsson's T68i still looks more attractive and useful than any of these newfangled Palms. If I can't have a real keyboard, I might as well be able to put the device in my pocket and leave my Timbuk2 <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/peewee.html"; target="_blank">Pee Wee</a> behind.
Escher
[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
<strong>We just can't help but flog certain dead horses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know, it's not a dead horse yet.
[quote]<strong>It's just that you will have to wait until "Early 2003" to get your hands on a Tungsten W. Who the hell came up with that name anyway? Zire maybe. But Tungsten?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I find it quite odd that, unless I'm mistaken, there's no Graffiti pad under that keyboard, and no "virtual" Graffiti like the Sony Clies. A Palm without Graffiti seems very odd. The keyboard looks nasty, though.
[quote]<strong>To me personally, SonyEricsson's T68i still looks more attractive and useful than any of these newfangled Palms. If I can't have a real keyboard, I might as well be able to put the device in my pocket and leave my Timbuk2 <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/peewee.html"; target="_blank">Pee Wee</a> behind.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I played around with the T68i, and can only see it being useful as a supplement to a notebook or PDA. It wouldn't allow me to leave either of those items at home, at least when I'm working.
I may well have to resort to that most disgusting of abhorrence, the PDA + folding keyboard combo. I know, I know. I'm selling out. Going against all my principals.
I'm working on taking the first stage along a new road, where all my data will be stored on a server, where I can access it from any device wherever it may be. Then I can just play around with any devices I can get my hands on until I find the one that suits, and won't have to keep transferring stuff between them.
It looks like it may be sensible to wait until December or January before making a decision, anyway, there are a whole bunch of new phones and PDAs due to appear over the next two or three months.
Speaking of Timbuk2, those lovely people have introduced a new bag, the <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/elcentro.html"; target="_blank">El Centro</a>, which is designed to carry an iBook in comfort. It's even described as "Mac-alicious".
I still look forward to the day I can just carry my Porkchop, and leave the other bags at home...
An interesting thing to look at is the NX series by sony. Essentially it has OS 5 and a CF slot that may eventually be able to run microdrives. I know that the battery issue would have to be resolved, but that would be a mean combo. You would be able to load entire movies in high rez, plus a coupla hours of mp3s and pictures. It also has a 640x480 digital camera that can record continuous mp4. I believe that with the advent of arm proccessors, palms will be more appealing than ppcs because they will still have much better battery with the catch up in speed(actually it will run faster because pocket pc is bloatware in comparison to palm os).
<strong> No one in their right mind would care about games on a pda. The whole market is going to be pushed aside by cell phones, even microsoft knows this. Thats why they are finishing up another OS, this time for cell phones.
<snip> You would be able to load entire movies in high rez, plus a coupla hours of mp3s and pictures. It also has a 640x480 digital camera that can record continuous mp4. I believe that with the advent of arm proccessors, palms will be more appealing than ppcs because they will still have much better battery with the catch up in speed(actually it will run faster because pocket pc is bloatware in comparison to palm os).</strong><hr></blockquote>
First, Pocket PC 2000, 2002 and Phone Edition are all Windows CE 3.0 with different GUI and modules. Not an entirely different OS.
Second, people do care about games on their PDA. It's a huge industry. <a href="http://www.raymanpocket.com/features.html"; target="_blank">http://www.raymanpocket.com/features.html</a>; Available for Palm as well.
Lastly, virtually all of the multimedia capabilities you cited have been available in Pocket PC in 2000. Old news.
I think a PDA ought to have at least a solid week of standby time and 24 hours of continuous use. It's supposed to be ready anywhere, and it won't be if you're always looking for a plug or have a nightly docking ritual.
<strong>I may well have to resort to that most disgusting of abhorrence, the PDA + folding keyboard combo.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Belle: I've been re-considering that option as well, while I send in my iBook to have the backlight problem fixed. Have you seen PalmInfocenter's review of the <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4479"; target="_blank">Palm Ultra-thin Keyboard</a>? BTW, I highly recommend <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/"; target="_blank">PalmInfocenter</a> as the best source of Palm-related news. They also have an excellent <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4490"; target="_blank">Tungsten T review</a>. (Any chance that our apple_otaku and their Palm_Otaku are one and the same person?)
[quote]<strong>I'm working on taking the first stage along a new road, where all my data will be stored on a server, where I can access it from any device wherever it may be. Then I can just play around with any devices I can get my hands on until I find the one that suits, and won't have to keep transferring stuff between them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess that's where Microsoft's .NET and Apple's .Mac are supposed to lead us ultimately. For me personally, this is going to be especially important with e-mail. Right now I carry my iBook and dowload all of my POP e-mail. Without my iBook, I don't have my e-mail. I really should start taking advantage of IMAP and leave at least my recent mail on the server. That is especially true now that I have paid up for my .Mac membership and could conceivably use .Mac webmail to check on my other e-mail accounts. I guess it's a matter of sitting down for a day and configuring everything for easy use.
Also, my brother-in-law leads a team of wireless analysts for one of the major research firms. He's visiting down here next weekend and will bring some new toys. Maybe he'll have some good suggestions, even though his research and knowledge centers on network infrastructure rather than handheld hardware.
[quote]<strong>Speaking of Timbuk2, those lovely people have introduced a new bag, the <a href="http://www.timbuk2.com/products/elcentro.html"; target="_blank">El Centro</a>, which is designed to carry an iBook in comfort... I still look forward to the day I can just carry my Porkchop, and leave the other bags at home...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Size-wise, I still favor my 700 cu in Pee Wee (with a Waterfield iBook sleeve) over the larger Sweet Pea (1000 cu in) and new El Centro (1300 cu in). Being able to fit our gear in the tiny Pork Chop may be a pipe dream. (For us guys, it's also too much like a girly purse.
Escher
<strong>But the battery life of those PDA's way back in 2000 wasn't too good, especially not when compared to palm. PocketPC is getting better though, and as Palms add more features/power/brighter screens they're getting hungrier, so the battery life of the two platforms is getting closer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The advances in battery technology over the last couple of years had made so much difference to this area. Just looking around at these handhelds, and especially new cell phones, things are so much better! The standby and talk time on most new cells is phenomenal compared to my old Nokia.
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>I've been re-considering that option as well, while I send in my iBook to have the backlight problem fixed. Have you seen PalmInfocenter's review of the Palm Ultra-thin Keyboard? BTW, I highly recommend PalmInfocenter as the best source of Palm-related news.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It was a mention of that keyboard that made me consider this as an option. I think it's something I'll have to try out in a store before I go ahead, though. While I've been researching this whole thing, the three sites I've found most useful are <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com"; target="_blank">PalmInfoCenter</a>, <a href="http://www.infosync.no"; target="_blank">infoSync</a>, and <a href="http://www.gizmodo.com"; target="_blank">Gizmodo</a>.
[quote]<strong>I guess that's where Microsoft's .NET and Apple's .Mac are supposed to lead us ultimately. For me personally, this is going to be especially important with e-mail. Right now I carry my iBook and dowload all of my POP e-mail. Without my iBook, I don't have my e-mail. I really should start taking advantage of IMAP and leave at least my recent mail on the server. That is especially true now that I have paid up for my .Mac membership and could conceivably use .Mac webmail to check on my other e-mail accounts. I guess it's a matter of sitting down for a day and configuring everything for easy use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
At the moment, this approach is making a lot of sense to me. I'm not entirely sure I trust Apple or Microsoft to keep my data for me. Backups, for sure, but I'm not happy about live data. I think I'm a bit of a control freak in this respect. I also have a plan for a little sideline business that a little box acting as a data center would be perfect for.
[quote]<strong>Also, my brother-in-law leads a team of wireless analysts for one of the major research firms. He's visiting down here next weekend and will bring some new toys. Maybe he'll have some good suggestions, even though his research and knowledge centers on network infrastructure rather than handheld hardware.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exciting! Please report back.
[quote]<strong>Size-wise, I still favor my 700 cu in Pee Wee (with a Waterfield iBook sleeve) over the larger Sweet Pea (1000 cu in) and new El Centro (1300 cu in). Being able to fit our gear in the tiny Pork Chop may be a pipe dream. (For us guys, it's also too much like a girly purse. ) Of course, I'll be waiting to get a microchip implant in my earlobe even longer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Pee Wee is still my favorite, but I'm glad that Timbuk2 is so Mac-friendly. And I don't think the Porkchop is particularly girly, is it? I guess it depends on the color.
[Edit: Or maybe it is <a href="http://widepipe.org/gear/000118.shtml"; target="_blank">a bit girly</a>. Man purse. Ahahaha. Funny.]
[ 10-31-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
<strong>But the battery life of those PDA's way back in 2000 wasn't too good, especially not when compared to palm. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not necessarily true as you are comparing color PDAs with CF slots and such to a monochrome device. If you were to compare a PPC with say a Visor Prism (with or without a module), you will find that their battery life is comparable and both suck compared to Palm V [which is a revolutionary product, BTW, when it entered the market].
I don't have it in front of me but I believe my Casio E-125 (2000 model) has a 1100 mAh battery which is still pretty good by today's standard.
<strong>At the moment, this approach is making a lot of sense to me. I'm not entirely sure I trust Apple or Microsoft to keep my data for me. Backups, for sure, but I'm not happy about live data. I think I'm a bit of a control freak in this respect. I also have a plan for a little sideline business that a little box acting as a data center would be perfect for.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's my main beef with the Danger Hiptop: Who's storing my data? Where? I'd mind less if there was also a way to sync the data to a machine of my choice, but alas.
The main reason I wouldn't worry if Apple did something similar with .Mac is that they appear to be using standards in earnest: If they use WebDAV for any similar device and point to the .Mac servers by default, it should be possible to set the server to your own choice as is possible with iCal. In fact, that would be a huge win for businesses and education customers looking to use the devices, not just geeks with their own servers and SDSL at home.
To date, not one of these little gadgets has inspired more than idle curiosity in me. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a reason to buy one.
<strong>The main reason I wouldn't worry if Apple did something similar with .Mac is that they appear to be using standards in earnest: If they use WebDAV for any similar device and point to the .Mac servers by default, it should be possible to set the server to your own choice as is possible with iCal. In fact, that would be a huge win for businesses and education customers looking to use the devices, not just geeks with their own servers and SDSL at home.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, who're you calling a geek, buddy?
The reason I distrust .Mac and .NET is that I've had problems with online services a number of times, and though it's nice to have someone to blame for lost data, in the end it's just incredibly frustrating when they can't bring it back. I've lost e-mails because of .Mac (Well, it was still iTools back then), I've lost backups because my online backup service screwed up, I've lost a days worth of data from an SQL database because my ISP managed to delete my entire web space. I know all these things could go wrong on my own server, but at least I care specifically about my data and will go to the ends of the Earth to make sure it's safe.
[quote]<strong>To date, not one of these little gadgets has inspired more than idle curiosity in me. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a reason to buy one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sigh. This is my problem. I know already that I'll end up impulse-buying a Tungsten or iPaq or something similar after Christmas, use it for a few weeks while it's new and interesting and I have features to discover, then consign it to my technology graveyard.
But I feel more strongly than ever that my laptop has become my albatross. I carry it around at work. It occupies the passenger seat of my car. It sits on my desk at home. It weighs down my hand luggage on flights. It sits in my bag on the floor at bars and restaurants and calls to me once in a while to check it's safe and hasn't been stolen. And it's got a bunch of little parasitic cables and adapters it needs to survive.
Why do I carry it? Because it holds the information I need for work. I need to view the data, and I need to add data. But really these days there's no need to carry all the data around. I just need a device to view it, and add to it. Something that's not the size of a Comp. Sci. textbook and weighs as much as a newborn baby.
I think I may have a whole new set of psychological techno-issues here.
The new OS will be optimized for the Xscale processors unlike the current crop.
<strong>Hey, who're you calling a geek, buddy?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You. You gotta problem wit' dat, lady?
[quote]<strong>The reason I distrust .Mac and .NET is that I've had problems with online services a number of times, and though it's nice to have someone to blame for lost data, in the end it's just incredibly frustrating when they can't bring it back.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's why I specified that the main reason I trusted .Mac more than others was because you could probably swap in another server. Not because of Apple's incredible reliability.
Also, Apple is more likely to allow syncing with a local Mac (via iSync, perhaps?
[quote]<strong>But I feel more strongly than ever that my laptop has become my albatross. I carry it around at work. It occupies the passenger seat of my car. It sits on my desk at home. It weighs down my hand luggage on flights. It sits in my bag on the floor at bars and restaurants and calls to me once in a while to check it's safe and hasn't been stolen. And it's got a bunch of little parasitic cables and adapters it needs to survive.
Why do I carry it? Because it holds the information I need for work. I need to view the data, and I need to add data. But really these days there's no need to carry all the data around. I just need a device to view it, and add to it. Something that's not the size of a Comp. Sci. textbook and weighs as much as a newborn baby.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's the need to add data that's the rub, isn't it? After all, an iPod is perfectly capable of browsing most data. I'm not enough of a gadget monster to spend hundreds of dollars on something I have to poke at through an obscure interface retrofitted awkwardly onto a dial pad, and the alternatives aren't there yet.
[quote]<strong>I think I may have a whole new set of psychological techno-issues here. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not going to say anything.
I do understand the desire for the Ideal PDA. I'm disorganized enough to seriously benefit from one. But there are no ideal PDAs, just a whole lot of $600 near misses.
Unfortunately for the vendors, if I'm going to spend $600, it's going to be on a solid hit. My technological graveyard fits in a milk crate (2400 baud modem, anyone? Anyone?!).
<strong>You. You gotta problem wit' dat, lady?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh... No. Just sayin'.
[quote]<strong>It's the need to add data that's the rub, isn't it? After all, an iPod is perfectly capable of browsing most data. I'm not enough of a gadget monster to spend hundreds of dollars on something I have to poke at through an obscure interface retrofitted awkwardly onto a dial pad, and the alternatives aren't there yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm beginning to think that Matsu may be thinking along the right lines. (Yes! I know! It surprised me too. I never thought I'd hear myself saying such a thing!
Certainly for the basic functions of a Palm device - appointments, to do lists, address book - it's really not going to be too difficult to parse the language required.
[quote]<strong>I'm not going to say anything.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd advise against it. Though it's not my first flirtation with techno-insanity. Way back in the deep mists of time, I remember spending a horrendous amount of time playing Populous on the Amiga, and having nightmares about the game. I would hear that "gooonnnggg" that indicated your enemy had created a knight long after I'd finished playing and switched off the computer. I also developed "mouse finger", a temporary RSI brought about by clicking madly to repair the damage caused by your enemy "volcanoing" you. Anyway.
[quote]<strong>I do understand the desire for the Ideal PDA. I'm disorganized enough to seriously benefit from one. But there are no ideal PDAs, just a whole lot of $600 near misses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The thing is that in my mind, $600 is about what I'd be willing to pay at the top end. But for something that's a million times more usable than what's available today.
[quote]<strong>My technological graveyard fits in a milk crate (2400 baud modem, anyone? Anyone?!).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do pass on most of my old hardware to friends, but there are some things that people just don't want.
I still have that Amiga and Populous somewhere, I think...
[ 10-31-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
[ 10-31-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>
<strong>I'm beginning to think that Matsu may be thinking along the right lines. (Yes! I know! It surprised me too. I never thought I'd hear myself saying such a thing! ) High quality voice recognition may just be the way for PDAs to go. Get those mathematicians working on their FFTs. You can put it on a DSP chip. I think that this could become an even more valuable technology now cell phones and PDAs are merging.
Certainly for the basic functions of a Palm device - appointments, to do lists, address book - it's really not going to be too difficult to parse the language required.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmmm.
The TI chip in the Tungsten is a nifty dual-core jobber with an ARM processor and a DSP stuck together - and, it seems, running at different clockspeeds(!). So there's your platform for running FFTs. According to the Palmsource article linked a little ways back in this thread, OS 6 is going to be the really interesting one, and that's due next summer/fall (next fall is going to rock!). So maybe Palm is heading in this general direction.
They've also abstracted away the HWR engine in OS 5, so that Graffiti can be replaced by a third party - or future Palm - HWR engine without any of the underlying apps noticing. Sweet.
<strong>Belle, have you seen <a href="http://www.mobigeeks.net/e/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=744"; target="_blank">these</a>? They look interesting.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very interesting indeed! Thanks, torifile. I gathered from the thread that this thing runs Linux? That may require a little work on my part, but still very interesting. I followed the link through to the Samsung device, but it has one of those horrid keyboards.
[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>Hmmm.
The TI chip in the Tungsten is a nifty dual-core jobber with an ARM processor and a DSP stuck together - and, it seems, running at different clockspeeds(!). So there's your platform for running FFTs. According to the Palmsource article linked a little ways back in this thread, OS 6 is going to be the really interesting one, and that's due next summer/fall (next fall is going to rock!). So maybe Palm is heading in this general direction.
They've also abstracted away the HWR engine in OS 5, so that Graffiti can be replaced by a third party - or future Palm - HWR engine without any of the underlying apps noticing. Sweet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Also very interesting! I take it if the HWR has been completely abstracted, then it needn't just be replaced (or supplemented) by another HWR system - you could use any kind of input.
Perhaps if the PDA manufacturers won't go with voice recognition, some third party may once Palm OS 6 is available.
Oh, and Outsider, I didn't just ignore your suggestion about Psion - I'm heading over to a store this afternoon to check them out.
[ 11-01-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
Must be the battle for second in the PDA/handheld computer world.
If you're not going to get a Newton, I personally like the Danger Hiptop more than either of the other two offerings. It does help, though, if you're in their coverage area.
[ 11-01-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>