Congrats on your new P800, Harald. We definitely need to see pics of the phone (alongside the G4, Pro Keyboard and you hands for size reference). The P800 is definitely smaller than say a Kyocera Smartphone. But does it feel any more compact than a Handspring Treo or Visor Phone?
Regarding iSync, I sure hope Apple expands the list of compatible phones once the final app is released.
Anyone mind pointing me in the direction of some good P800 info? I'm considering getting an SE T68i, mostly for phone use + iSync connection, and a tiny bit of web. How would the P800 compare?
First impressions: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It's lovely!
Quick overview: It does everything. It has one, whatever it is. {edit: doesn't ship with a timer like T68} It's got some niggles. I love it.
OK, second impressions ... I reckon they've taken a bite of Apple pie in the packaging / design stakes. Minimalist box, with everything inside ... everything. 16MB Memory Stick card, stereo headphones for the MP3 player that double as handsfree, little carrying pouch, 4 spare sprongs, CD's (more later) ... and the dock. Oh, the dock.
"Honey I Shrunk the Airport Basestation."
Your P800 slots in with zero insertion force ... underneath is a clever hideaway for a built in USB cable (don't need that: I have Bluetooth and no software ... when plugged in, System Profiler can see a "USB Device." Very useful ... ) The handset just seems to be floating at 45 degrees. DAMN it's cool. Charges the blighter fast, too.
And the phone ... well, it's not going to fit into your breast pocket any more, but it IS going in your trouser pocket not too uncomfortably. It certainly does feel big in the hand compared to one of the latest GSM phones. But ergonomic too. It's a beautiful piece of design (taste, I know). The flip is removeable, and there's a piece of translucent blue plastic to go in its place to keep that slickness factor high by covering up the internal mechanism. Everything is snug and compact and just, well, slick. It's shorter then the R380 and a bit wider. It's in a different class to the Treo. It's a communications device through and through, unlike the Handsprings, which remain PDA's with phones (sorry guys).
The screen is beautiful. Think iPaq v2. Possibly on the pale side, I've not played any video but the demo that comes with it so far, which looks great (again, no discernible difference to yer colour handheld computer).
The jog wheel is amazing: up and down scroll, in ... and towards and away too. If you see what I mean. New one on me. The buttons on the flip as you know mechanically press through to the touch screen ... unless you use appropriate force you can find that using triple tap you might miss a letter or two.
Still to talk about the speaker, the AV players, the camera, bluetooth, the interface, bundled apps, PIM, internet ... oh lordy ... I might not be able to cover all this ...
Well, there's two modes: phone mode and communicator mode ... it's a phone with the flip closed and a communicator / PC with the flip open. When it's a phone, it's one hell of a phone, as you can still use the camera, BT and all the other gubbins. It uses animation and colour to let you know what it's doing ... zooming in on the circle that contains the functions you're after (messages / calls / contacts / calls / calendar / applications). Very Aqua. You can do everything you'd want on a high-end phone using what is still a large screen with the flip closed. A really good high-end phone with a great interface ... the trick is using the jog wheel to go back and forth, say yes and no.
The engineers have done a great -- spot on, excellent -- job with the way the small screen v. big screen modes work, and the way that you can share data between them. For example, using the jotter in communicator mode you can draw notes and back-of-napkin stuff, as well as enter text. If you open a jotter note in small-screen mode, you can read all the text but not see the images. There are more or less two applications for each view sharing the data. It's seamless so far (24 hours and counting).
If it's Aqua with the flip closed, when it's open it's ... not. It's nice though ... good Symbian implementation. Big screen mode (communicator mode) defaults to a long list of all the apps in the phone, which you can also filter a la Palm in categories such as media, tools, business &c. There's a little line of pretty insipid icons at the top that look like they're off Outlook PC for shortcuts to the functions described above, and a very Windowsy (but tiny) status bar on the bottom with signal strength, BT, battery and all that stuff.
The interface, in both modes, is very responsive. It loads apps very quickly, responds to interaction immediately (selecting fields etc.) and is as fast as any very high end PDA or Palmtop. It's got welly y'all.
When open you can enter text either using Jot HWR -- which is a good as any I've come across, certainly better then Graffiti, or by hunt and pecking on a pop up mini keyboard.
Setup -- particularly WAP, Internet and phone functions -- is not laid out well. When you find the appropriate control panel it's simple and logical but the problem is finding them. Not very intuitive, and not fun if you're not a geek I wouldn't imagine.
You have to learn how to use the jog wheel in conjunction with the prong for best use. I'm already getting pretty whizzy moving around.
Edit: in response (and thanks Paul), that's the sun shinging through buildings close to home in East London. Shot on medium quality -- it does get better. And yes, you can use the phone as a BT modem but I've not tried.
Anyway, it's not replacing my Leica.
Unlike the Nokia, the lens is always exposed. It's going to get scratched unless you're VERY careful, even though the designers have been careful to extrude the back and offer protection to the lens ... putting it down on a table won't touch the lens -- which is good -- but unless it's in its pouch, pockets will get to it eventually.
But as I say, IT'S NOT REPLACING MY LEICA ...
... meaning for snap'n'send it's great. The whole process is seamless; there's a mini iPhoto-a-like picture browser which lets you send images via email, MMS, IR or Bluetooth. Piece of piss. Does what it says on the tin. You can snap in 3 qualities, adjust the white balance, contrast, compensate for backlit subjects. Bueno quite frankly. But we're talking 640 x 480 here (what's that? 0.13MP or something ... ?) I'm going to have fun with it.
Well I will when I can get a GPRS connection going. For now it's Bluetooth.
Bluetooth works a treat as far as the P800 is concerned ... sending and receiving files is totally simple. You can tell it be extra friendly to specific machines, such as my G4. The file handling is also very intuitive on receipt of a file.
Bluetooth is fine as far as OS X is concerned if you ignore the iApps, which aren't working here yet. I never thought I'd be using Bluetooth File Exchange, but it's in my dock and is a perfect example of super-simple Apple engineering actually. Pinging multiMB images to see what it would do: and it worked perfectly.
But: I can't use Address Book or iSync with the blighter. iSync just can't find the phone. Address Book won't connect to the P800 via the Bluetooth button. I can't export the vCards and send them via BT (the phone tells me they're damaged) using File Exchange -- dragging contacts to the icon is cool though -- and I can't use the "Send" facility in Address Book either.
I'm CERTAIN who or whatever is responsible will be sorted out. But I'm annoyed as these facilities were what was going to make up for the larger size. Oh yes, iCal can't sync for the same reason. iSync is beta. They'd better fix it for GM ...
Harald: Thanks for your report, live from the battlefield of mobile technology. Thanks also for the comparative pictures of the P800/T68 and for the picture taken with the P800 itself.
I have to admit the P800 is smaller than I expected. But it's still a bit, how shall I say it, square. In the end, however, useability trumps all other considerations. So I guess it's ok. I still have to admit that I was picturing my next mobile in shirt pocket size, not trouser pocket size. But I have yet to see a large-screened device that isn't a bit square. Beyond the size, there is no doubt that a Jot-enabled P800 will allow significantly more efficient data entry than the numeric keyboard-only T68 and its principally phone brethren.
I'm curious to see what the successor to the T68 will look like and how sophisticated (or not) it will be in comparison to the P800.
[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>I'm CERTAIN who or whatever is responsible will be sorted out. But I'm annoyed as these facilities were what was going to make up for the larger size. Oh yes, iCal can't sync for the same reason. iSync is beta. They'd better fix it for GM ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do hope that Apple and SonyEricsson manage to work this out as nicely as they have for the T68. As Belle suggested, I have great hopes to download iSync 1.0 after the MWSF keynote.
question: can you install and run all the palm OS applications out there on the P800? or are palm OS apps not compatible with symbian OS?
If not, then IMHO, this takes some of the wind out of the P800's sails. Yes, it's a start at integrating a PDA with a phone, but only for basic apps (calendar, contacts, memos, etc). I actually use several other, non-standard, programs on my palm. If they don't work on the P800, i'd still need to carry my palm with me anyway. FYI, i currently have a palm and a T68i.
<strong>Harald: Thanks for your report, live from the battlefield of mobile technology. Thanks also for the comparative pictures of the P800/T68 and for the picture taken with the P800 itself.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I second that! How much did you pay for your P800?
[quote]<strong>I'm curious to see what the successor to the T68 will look like and how sophisticated (or not) it will be in comparison to the P800.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Me too! I'd also like to see a successor to Nokia's communicator - the 7650 seem so cheap in appearance.
[quote]<strong>I do hope that Apple and SonyEricsson manage to work this out as nicely as they have for the T68. As Belle suggested, I have great hopes to download iSync 1.0 after the MWSF keynote.
Escher</strong><hr></blockquote>
After the MWNY announcement I thought Sony-Ericsson would show a little more Mac commitment. I expected them to deliver decent drivers, software and proper iApp integration. Oh well...
Comments
<strong>OMG</strong><hr></blockquote>
W? WTF?
It's :eek:
Bad news:
OS X's Bluetooth set up doesn't give me the option to sync calendars. And iSync can't find the phone.
I don't care at the moment. I probably will soon. Get that app out of beta already!!!
Edit: Duh. On the iSync site the P800 ain't listed as compatible. Going to try copying all the vCards over via BT. Oh the pains of early adoption.
And Address Book.app won't go connect via BT.
I CAN beam photos taken on it to the G4 though.
[ 12-18-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]
[ 12-18-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
Does it seem smaller in person, or will it look like you're using an electric shaver when you make a call?
Regarding iSync, I sure hope Apple expands the list of compatible phones once the final app is released.
Escher
umm... can I come over and borrow your P800?
Been playing with it HARD as you can imagine, and will post a bunch of photos and impressions today.
Any questions / requests welcome ... I should work today but sod it.
Edit: taken some snaps. Anyone want to host?
H.
[ 12-19-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
First impressions: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It's lovely!
Quick overview: It does everything. It has one, whatever it is. {edit: doesn't ship with a timer like T68} It's got some niggles. I love it.
OK, second impressions ... I reckon they've taken a bite of Apple pie in the packaging / design stakes. Minimalist box, with everything inside ... everything. 16MB Memory Stick card, stereo headphones for the MP3 player that double as handsfree, little carrying pouch, 4 spare sprongs, CD's (more later) ... and the dock. Oh, the dock.
"Honey I Shrunk the Airport Basestation."
Your P800 slots in with zero insertion force ... underneath is a clever hideaway for a built in USB cable (don't need that: I have Bluetooth and no software ... when plugged in, System Profiler can see a "USB Device." Very useful ... ) The handset just seems to be floating at 45 degrees. DAMN it's cool. Charges the blighter fast, too.
And the phone ... well, it's not going to fit into your breast pocket any more, but it IS going in your trouser pocket not too uncomfortably. It certainly does feel big in the hand compared to one of the latest GSM phones. But ergonomic too. It's a beautiful piece of design (taste, I know). The flip is removeable, and there's a piece of translucent blue plastic to go in its place to keep that slickness factor high by covering up the internal mechanism. Everything is snug and compact and just, well, slick. It's shorter then the R380 and a bit wider. It's in a different class to the Treo. It's a communications device through and through, unlike the Handsprings, which remain PDA's with phones (sorry guys).
The screen is beautiful. Think iPaq v2. Possibly on the pale side, I've not played any video but the demo that comes with it so far, which looks great (again, no discernible difference to yer colour handheld computer).
The jog wheel is amazing: up and down scroll, in ... and towards and away too. If you see what I mean. New one on me. The buttons on the flip as you know mechanically press through to the touch screen ... unless you use appropriate force you can find that using triple tap you might miss a letter or two.
Still to talk about the speaker, the AV players, the camera, bluetooth, the interface, bundled apps, PIM, internet ... oh lordy ... I might not be able to cover all this ...
[ 12-19-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
I'll see what I can do
my homepage doesnt seem to want to work right now...
you should be able to download them here...
will post direct links when i can test them...
Part 2 ...
That interface.
Well, there's two modes: phone mode and communicator mode ... it's a phone with the flip closed and a communicator / PC with the flip open. When it's a phone, it's one hell of a phone, as you can still use the camera, BT and all the other gubbins. It uses animation and colour to let you know what it's doing ... zooming in on the circle that contains the functions you're after (messages / calls / contacts / calls / calendar / applications). Very Aqua. You can do everything you'd want on a high-end phone using what is still a large screen with the flip closed. A really good high-end phone with a great interface ... the trick is using the jog wheel to go back and forth, say yes and no.
The engineers have done a great -- spot on, excellent -- job with the way the small screen v. big screen modes work, and the way that you can share data between them. For example, using the jotter in communicator mode you can draw notes and back-of-napkin stuff, as well as enter text. If you open a jotter note in small-screen mode, you can read all the text but not see the images. There are more or less two applications for each view sharing the data. It's seamless so far (24 hours and counting).
If it's Aqua with the flip closed, when it's open it's ... not. It's nice though ... good Symbian implementation. Big screen mode (communicator mode) defaults to a long list of all the apps in the phone, which you can also filter a la Palm in categories such as media, tools, business &c. There's a little line of pretty insipid icons at the top that look like they're off Outlook PC for shortcuts to the functions described above, and a very Windowsy (but tiny) status bar on the bottom with signal strength, BT, battery and all that stuff.
The interface, in both modes, is very responsive. It loads apps very quickly, responds to interaction immediately (selecting fields etc.) and is as fast as any very high end PDA or Palmtop. It's got welly y'all.
When open you can enter text either using Jot HWR -- which is a good as any I've come across, certainly better then Graffiti, or by hunt and pecking on a pop up mini keyboard.
Setup -- particularly WAP, Internet and phone functions -- is not laid out well. When you find the appropriate control panel it's simple and logical but the problem is finding them. Not very intuitive, and not fun if you're not a geek I wouldn't imagine.
You have to learn how to use the jog wheel in conjunction with the prong for best use. I'm already getting pretty whizzy moving around.
It's a good interface.
[ 12-19-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
image taken by the P800...
Harald mind saying where this is and what it is a picture of?
Edit: in response (and thanks Paul), that's the sun shinging through buildings close to home in East London. Shot on medium quality -- it does get better. And yes, you can use the phone as a BT modem but I've not tried.
Anyway, it's not replacing my Leica.
Unlike the Nokia, the lens is always exposed. It's going to get scratched unless you're VERY careful, even though the designers have been careful to extrude the back and offer protection to the lens ... putting it down on a table won't touch the lens -- which is good -- but unless it's in its pouch, pockets will get to it eventually.
But as I say, IT'S NOT REPLACING MY LEICA ...
... meaning for snap'n'send it's great. The whole process is seamless; there's a mini iPhoto-a-like picture browser which lets you send images via email, MMS, IR or Bluetooth. Piece of piss. Does what it says on the tin. You can snap in 3 qualities, adjust the white balance, contrast, compensate for backlit subjects. Bueno quite frankly. But we're talking 640 x 480 here (what's that? 0.13MP or something ... ?) I'm going to have fun with it.
Well I will when I can get a GPRS connection going. For now it's Bluetooth.
Bluetooth works a treat as far as the P800 is concerned ... sending and receiving files is totally simple. You can tell it be extra friendly to specific machines, such as my G4. The file handling is also very intuitive on receipt of a file.
Bluetooth is fine as far as OS X is concerned if you ignore the iApps, which aren't working here yet. I never thought I'd be using Bluetooth File Exchange, but it's in my dock and is a perfect example of super-simple Apple engineering actually. Pinging multiMB images to see what it would do: and it worked perfectly.
But: I can't use Address Book or iSync with the blighter. iSync just can't find the phone. Address Book won't connect to the P800 via the Bluetooth button. I can't export the vCards and send them via BT (the phone tells me they're damaged) using File Exchange -- dragging contacts to the icon is cool though -- and I can't use the "Send" facility in Address Book either.
I'm CERTAIN who or whatever is responsible will be sorted out. But I'm annoyed as these facilities were what was going to make up for the larger size. Oh yes, iCal can't sync for the same reason. iSync is beta. They'd better fix it for GM ...
[ 12-19-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]
[ 12-19-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
I have to admit the P800 is smaller than I expected. But it's still a bit, how shall I say it, square. In the end, however, useability trumps all other considerations. So I guess it's ok. I still have to admit that I was picturing my next mobile in shirt pocket size, not trouser pocket size. But I have yet to see a large-screened device that isn't a bit square. Beyond the size, there is no doubt that a Jot-enabled P800 will allow significantly more efficient data entry than the numeric keyboard-only T68 and its principally phone brethren.
I'm curious to see what the successor to the T68 will look like and how sophisticated (or not) it will be in comparison to the P800.
[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>I'm CERTAIN who or whatever is responsible will be sorted out. But I'm annoyed as these facilities were what was going to make up for the larger size. Oh yes, iCal can't sync for the same reason. iSync is beta. They'd better fix it for GM ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do hope that Apple and SonyEricsson manage to work this out as nicely as they have for the T68. As Belle suggested, I have great hopes to download iSync 1.0 after the MWSF keynote.
Escher
If not, then IMHO, this takes some of the wind out of the P800's sails. Yes, it's a start at integrating a PDA with a phone, but only for basic apps (calendar, contacts, memos, etc). I actually use several other, non-standard, programs on my palm. If they don't work on the P800, i'd still need to carry my palm with me anyway. FYI, i currently have a palm and a T68i.
<strong>Harald: Thanks for your report, live from the battlefield of mobile technology. Thanks also for the comparative pictures of the P800/T68 and for the picture taken with the P800 itself.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I second that! How much did you pay for your P800?
[quote]<strong>I'm curious to see what the successor to the T68 will look like and how sophisticated (or not) it will be in comparison to the P800.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Me too! I'd also like to see a successor to Nokia's communicator - the 7650 seem so cheap in appearance.
[quote]<strong>I do hope that Apple and SonyEricsson manage to work this out as nicely as they have for the T68. As Belle suggested, I have great hopes to download iSync 1.0 after the MWSF keynote.
Escher</strong><hr></blockquote>
After the MWNY announcement I thought Sony-Ericsson would show a little more Mac commitment. I expected them to deliver decent drivers, software and proper iApp integration. Oh well...