Perhaps I'm misinterpreting this discussion. As I understand it, the system software occupies about 3.4 GB out of the box, and 2 free GB are necessary to update software. If you have used up most or all of your free storage space with apps and photos, which wouldn't be hard to do with so little available space, where does the phone get those 2 free GB? You said it only needs the space temporarily, which makes sense, but there is a limit on how much storage space is available on a phone whether you're storing something temporarily or permanently.
1) Where did you get this 3.4GiB figure from? I get 4.86GiB of available space for the 8GB iPhone 5C based on the title of this article against the S4. With an 8GB device therefore having 7.45GiB of actual space (slightly less but I'll round up in your favour), we can then subtract 4.86 from 7.45 to get 2.59GiB for the OS and all such tidbits.
2) iOS 7.1 needed up to about 2.5GiB free in order to download the update, uncompress the update, and do whatever it needed to do to install the proper files into the system which were probably about 0.5GiB of files (not added, but altered), before giving back nearly all the space it needed to perform the update. No one is arguing that this seems like a lot of space and probably has to do with additional redundancies so that the update is less likely to run into issues and I don't recall seeing that before. Perhaps there were too many failed updates with iOS 7.0.6 so they cast an extra large safety net, but there is no *magic* involved. Does it suck if your device didn't have the available space? As noted by many in the thread about the iOS 7.1 update it might be an issue. I even speculated that if Apple is going to go down this route that they may be finally doubling iPhone capacities for a given price point this year.
At times this site can be a nice resource for news, but ever so often you'll have articles like this.
Coming from the person who says SD cards are a substitute for installed storage. Perhaps if you want to store MP3s. Not if you expect apps you install to actually work. Or your phone to work at all after installing a couple apps. Or if you expect apps you install to not be able to access any and all personal data and message stores coped to the SD Card.
Do some research on how Android actually uses SD cards. Frankly, its embarrassing.
This is terrible news for people in emergenging markets that were hopeful the 5C would have been an alternative. Barely 5GB is really nothing for a phone, between apps and a couple of music that poor phone is gonna be full and unusable most of its life time. I know that Apple Insider is trying very hard to somehow twist it into a different kind of news, and I thank them as an apple fan for trying, but in this case this is a very bleak perspective that not even without the third party bundles the 5C cannot allow even 5GB of user free space.
I know you're trying very hard to twist the 8GB iPhone 5c into some kind of terrible news for emerging markets, but the iPhone 5c is also available in larger capacities.
I like the retro look of the 5c, if it had the same specs as the 5s and wasn't nothing more than last years phone I would have bought it over the 5s in a heartbeat. I really liked the fit, finish and the feel of the "plastic".
The 5c will never do well in the US because most simply go with a 2 year contract and the extra 100.00 isn't a big deal. I know in other countries cost of the phone is more of an issue. Not sure about anyone else here but I would love it if Apple came out with a 6c that has the same specs.
As far as storage I can only speak for myself I could never buy anything that had 8gb. Even my iPod Nano has 16gb.
1) Where did you get this 3.4GiB figure from? I get 4.86GiB of available space for the 8GB iPhone 5C based on the title of this article against the S4. With an 8GB device therefore having 7.45GiB of actual space (slightly less but I'll round up in your favour), we can then subtract 4.86 from 7.45 to get 2.59GiB for the OS and all such tidbits.
2) iOS 7.1 needed up to about 2.5GiB free in order to download the update, uncompress the update, and do whatever it needed to do to install the proper files into the system which were probably about 0.5GiB of files (not added, but altered), before giving back nearly all the space it needed to perform the update. No one is arguing that this seems like a lot of space and probably has to do with additional redundancies so that the update is less likely to run into issues and I don't recall seeing that before. Perhaps there were too many failed updates with iOS 7.0.6 so they cast an extra large safety net, but there is no *magic* involved. Does it suck if your device didn't have the available space? As noted by many in the thread about the iOS 7.1 update it might be an issue. I even speculated that if Apple is going to go down this route that they may be finally doubling iPhone capacities for a given price point this year.
1. I got 3.4 GB by subtracting 12.6 GB from 16 GB (numbers for the 5C) as shown in the chart in the article. I now realize the article stated that the 8 GB model gives 4.9 GB to the user out of the box, indicating that the system occupies 3.1 GB. If Apple advertises 7.45 GB as 8 GB, then the system must occupy less space.
2. Regardless, we know that the user is given 4.9 GB and that iOS updates require 2.5 GB free, so that means that the user can actually use 2.4 GB of storage space before compromising software updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
As previously stated ad nauseum it only uses about 2.5GB from the box and only needs that free space temporarily to store, expand, and perform the OTA update which is mostly given back to the user after the update is complete and the device restarts. Some updates may even have more space available after the update is complete. You seriously can't be that oblivious to how files are swapped on an OS.
3. My joking use of "magic" was because you implied here ^ that the temporary use of 2.5 GB of storage space had no impact on the usable space.
Dudes... Yes the s4 sucks, etc. But who cares? The fact is that the 8gb option of the 5c is just a trap made by a greedy company.
The OS uses 3gb, 2 are needed for updates. That leaves 3gb.
In what world is that enough? 3 gb? That's fucking pathetic and a crappy move. A few photos of that awesome camera, few videos, 1 good game and that's it.
That's a bad iPhone.
Wait, is that even true? It 'ships' with the free memory DED says, but once you update it has 2g less?? If true that is pretty substantial and would be pretty weak to use as a marketing ploy, or even as clickbait for a sensational headline. Discounting all the other stated items/microSD slot, if the iPhone does have DED's 4.9 Gig free, with 3.7G on an S4 a 16GB phone does have nearly twice as much free memory as an 8GB phone....
But the real kicker is slightly alluded to in the article. The first thing you do on the iPhone is download some key apps that pretty much use up a huge chunk of your free space- iPhoto, iWork etc. That functionality is already shipped and included as part of the memory used with the S4. You can do a lot less with a stock iPhone 5c *as shipped*, and once you download the apps to give you the same functionality you have a lot less space left.
I need 64GB but that doesn't mean everyone does. For those who don't need much storage: you now have an alternative. Take it or leave it: that's how the free market works. You guys can wail about how anyone could disagree with your world views, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. The market is going to choose the winners and losers. You can call it a failure when it fails.
I now realize the article stated that the 8 GB model gives 4.9 GB to the user out of the box, indicating that the system occupies 3.1 GB.
I honestly don't know why you keep using the BASE-10 8GB to subtract against the BASE-2 4.9GiB. Is it so hard to understand that they market the capacity as 1000 being a gigabyte and then represent the capacity in the device as 1024 as being a gigabyte? They even tell you the maximum storage capacity sans any OS right in Settings » General » About.
My observation (and this carries in both 1st world & emerging economies) is that when a person ripens out of space on their 8 GB starter iPhone, they sell it off to someone else and buy an iPhone with more storage. Oth, when they run out of space on an Android phone, they throw it away because they can't sell it amped absorb the full cost of a new phone. They do get to keep the microSD card, though, if they remember to pull it out before pitching the phone.
Who cares if it's only temporary? What does the phone do when you need the extra space to update your software? Does it magically create more storage space and then magically remove it after the update? If not, then your options are to delete the pictures from your daughter's graduation or to ignore critical software updates.
No you just delete a few apps, update the os, an download the apps again.
I honestly don't know why you keep using the BASE-10 8GB to subtract against the BASE-2 4.9GiB. Is it so hard to understand that they market the capacity as 1000 being a gigabyte and then represent the capacity in the device as 1024 as being a gigabyte? They even tell you the maximum storage capacity sans any OS right in Settings » General » About.
Because I'm not familiar with BASE-ANYTHING. Is it so hard to understand that I may not have that knowledge? Is it so hard to understand that this is irrelevant to the point of a temporary need for 2.5 GB still requiring 2.5 GB be free?
Because I'm not familiar with BASE-ANYTHING. Is it so hard to understand that I may not have that knowledge? Is it so hard to understand that this is irrelevant to the point of a temporary need for 2.5 GB still requiring 2.5 GB be free?
1) It's been mentioned and detailed many times in this thread so to act if you're not even aware of the concept is remarkable.
2) The temporary space for the iPhone 5S for 7.1 when specifically doing an OTA update has been discussed to the full extent already and is irrelevant to how big iOS is compared to Android from OEMs.
1) It's been mentioned and detailed many times in this thread so to act if you're not even aware of the concept is remarkable.
2) The temporary space for the iPhone 5S for 7.1 when specifically doing an OTA update has been discussed to the full extent already and is irrelevant to how big iOS is compared to Android from OEMs.
1. Sorry.
2. We're not talking about how big the update is compared to Android updates. Where did you pull that from? The discussion was about the fact that the already small 4.9 GB is effectively reduced to 2.4 GB if a user wants to take a software update. Seriously, you can't dodge any harder.
3. Were my GBs correct in point 2? I'm not sure which BASE I should be or am using.
2. We're not talking about how big the update is compared to Android updates. Where did you pull that from? The discussion was about the fact that the already small 4.9 GB is effectively reduced to 2.4 GB if a user wants to take a software update. Seriously, you can't dodge any harder.
3. Were my GBs correct in point 2? I'm not sure which BASE I should be or am using.
:sigh: I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but your refusal to be objective or rational has become tiresome. No good deed...
Where does OS X still not show it correctly? I haven’t run across that.
The terms correct or incorrect are not applicable here.
Starting in what I think was Lion they moved the Finder, including Get Info, Show Inspector) items to show the capacity as BASE-10 but Disk Utility still showed BASE-2. I think it was in Mavericks where they also changed Disk Utility showing BASE-10 values as noted by looking at your drive and volume sizes. If you use Terminal you can see sizes still represented as BASE-2, as one would expect, however iTunes is also still represented capacities as BASE-2. You test this yourself by going to iTunes and single-clicking any one item that is locally stored on your Mac. At the bottom it will show the size of the item. If you now Option-Click that item and choose Show In Finder it will show you a different, somewhat larger size.
Since local storage is always available and high speed transfer, it pretty clearly trumps expensive carrier data caps, hunting for wifi or waiting for things to upload/download, regardless of whether it's built in storage or an SD card. Carriers want you to use the cloud, they see $$.
So you'd find find fault with Google docs and other web apps or Google ChromeOS on the same grounds? Just curious.
At least Apple's iCloud use on iOS devices is for the customer benefit just putting in the cloud what is most useful. Google wants to funnel things that would be done just as well or better locally into the cloud just to drive traffic and increase ad revenue.
On a personal note isn't anyone else tired of Google called 5 times a day trying to sell advertising?
Comments
1) Where did you get this 3.4GiB figure from? I get 4.86GiB of available space for the 8GB iPhone 5C based on the title of this article against the S4. With an 8GB device therefore having 7.45GiB of actual space (slightly less but I'll round up in your favour), we can then subtract 4.86 from 7.45 to get 2.59GiB for the OS and all such tidbits.
2) iOS 7.1 needed up to about 2.5GiB free in order to download the update, uncompress the update, and do whatever it needed to do to install the proper files into the system which were probably about 0.5GiB of files (not added, but altered), before giving back nearly all the space it needed to perform the update. No one is arguing that this seems like a lot of space and probably has to do with additional redundancies so that the update is less likely to run into issues and I don't recall seeing that before. Perhaps there were too many failed updates with iOS 7.0.6 so they cast an extra large safety net, but there is no *magic* involved. Does it suck if your device didn't have the available space? As noted by many in the thread about the iOS 7.1 update it might be an issue. I even speculated that if Apple is going to go down this route that they may be finally doubling iPhone capacities for a given price point this year.
The author is DED, what else would you expect.
At times this site can be a nice resource for news, but ever so often you'll have articles like this.
Coming from the person who says SD cards are a substitute for installed storage. Perhaps if you want to store MP3s. Not if you expect apps you install to actually work. Or your phone to work at all after installing a couple apps. Or if you expect apps you install to not be able to access any and all personal data and message stores coped to the SD Card.
Do some research on how Android actually uses SD cards. Frankly, its embarrassing.
While Apple "cut down" the iPhone 5C to make an 8GB model... they still left the existing 16GB and 32GB models.
If they had eliminated the 16GB and 32GB models altogether... THAT would be bad. But they didn't.
You can still get 16GB or 32GB if you feel 8GB won't suit your storage needs.
Quote:It also offers 12GB more storage than a 32GB Windows phone. True story!
Oh yes. Absolutely true.
I know you're trying very hard to twist the 8GB iPhone 5c into some kind of terrible news for emerging markets, but the iPhone 5c is also available in larger capacities.
I like the retro look of the 5c, if it had the same specs as the 5s and wasn't nothing more than last years phone I would have bought it over the 5s in a heartbeat. I really liked the fit, finish and the feel of the "plastic".
The 5c will never do well in the US because most simply go with a 2 year contract and the extra 100.00 isn't a big deal. I know in other countries cost of the phone is more of an issue. Not sure about anyone else here but I would love it if Apple came out with a 6c that has the same specs.
As far as storage I can only speak for myself I could never buy anything that had 8gb. Even my iPod Nano has 16gb.
1) Where did you get this 3.4GiB figure from? I get 4.86GiB of available space for the 8GB iPhone 5C based on the title of this article against the S4. With an 8GB device therefore having 7.45GiB of actual space (slightly less but I'll round up in your favour), we can then subtract 4.86 from 7.45 to get 2.59GiB for the OS and all such tidbits.
2) iOS 7.1 needed up to about 2.5GiB free in order to download the update, uncompress the update, and do whatever it needed to do to install the proper files into the system which were probably about 0.5GiB of files (not added, but altered), before giving back nearly all the space it needed to perform the update. No one is arguing that this seems like a lot of space and probably has to do with additional redundancies so that the update is less likely to run into issues and I don't recall seeing that before. Perhaps there were too many failed updates with iOS 7.0.6 so they cast an extra large safety net, but there is no *magic* involved. Does it suck if your device didn't have the available space? As noted by many in the thread about the iOS 7.1 update it might be an issue. I even speculated that if Apple is going to go down this route that they may be finally doubling iPhone capacities for a given price point this year.
As previously stated ad nauseum it only uses about 2.5GB from the box and only needs that free space temporarily to store, expand, and perform the OTA update which is mostly given back to the user after the update is complete and the device restarts. Some updates may even have more space available after the update is complete. You seriously can't be that oblivious to how files are swapped on an OS.
3. My joking use of "magic" was because you implied here ^ that the temporary use of 2.5 GB of storage space had no impact on the usable space.
Dudes... Yes the s4 sucks, etc. But who cares? The fact is that the 8gb option of the 5c is just a trap made by a greedy company.
The OS uses 3gb, 2 are needed for updates. That leaves 3gb.
In what world is that enough? 3 gb? That's fucking pathetic and a crappy move. A few photos of that awesome camera, few videos, 1 good game and that's it.
That's a bad iPhone.
Wait, is that even true? It 'ships' with the free memory DED says, but once you update it has 2g less?? If true that is pretty substantial and would be pretty weak to use as a marketing ploy, or even as clickbait for a sensational headline. Discounting all the other stated items/microSD slot, if the iPhone does have DED's 4.9 Gig free, with 3.7G on an S4 a 16GB phone does have nearly twice as much free memory as an 8GB phone....
But the real kicker is slightly alluded to in the article. The first thing you do on the iPhone is download some key apps that pretty much use up a huge chunk of your free space- iPhoto, iWork etc. That functionality is already shipped and included as part of the memory used with the S4. You can do a lot less with a stock iPhone 5c *as shipped*, and once you download the apps to give you the same functionality you have a lot less space left.
I honestly don't know why you keep using the BASE-10 8GB to subtract against the BASE-2 4.9GiB. Is it so hard to understand that they market the capacity as 1000 being a gigabyte and then represent the capacity in the device as 1024 as being a gigabyte? They even tell you the maximum storage capacity sans any OS right in Settings » General » About.
No you just delete a few apps, update the os, an download the apps again.
I honestly don't know why you keep using the BASE-10 8GB to subtract against the BASE-2 4.9GiB. Is it so hard to understand that they market the capacity as 1000 being a gigabyte and then represent the capacity in the device as 1024 as being a gigabyte? They even tell you the maximum storage capacity sans any OS right in Settings » General » About.
Because I'm not familiar with BASE-ANYTHING. Is it so hard to understand that I may not have that knowledge? Is it so hard to understand that this is irrelevant to the point of a temporary need for 2.5 GB still requiring 2.5 GB be free?
1) It's been mentioned and detailed many times in this thread so to act if you're not even aware of the concept is remarkable.
2) The temporary space for the iPhone 5S for 7.1 when specifically doing an OTA update has been discussed to the full extent already and is irrelevant to how big iOS is compared to Android from OEMs.
We don’t need laptops with 2 TB hard drives. Am I missing something?
The part where we do, because trusting the cloud to your documents is moronic.
Where does OS X still not show it correctly? I haven’t run across that.
1) It's been mentioned and detailed many times in this thread so to act if you're not even aware of the concept is remarkable.
2) The temporary space for the iPhone 5S for 7.1 when specifically doing an OTA update has been discussed to the full extent already and is irrelevant to how big iOS is compared to Android from OEMs.
1. Sorry.
2. We're not talking about how big the update is compared to Android updates. Where did you pull that from? The discussion was about the fact that the already small 4.9 GB is effectively reduced to 2.4 GB if a user wants to take a software update. Seriously, you can't dodge any harder.
3. Were my GBs correct in point 2? I'm not sure which BASE I should be or am using.
:sigh: I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but your refusal to be objective or rational has become tiresome. No good deed...
The terms correct or incorrect are not applicable here.
Starting in what I think was Lion they moved the Finder, including Get Info, Show Inspector) items to show the capacity as BASE-10 but Disk Utility still showed BASE-2. I think it was in Mavericks where they also changed Disk Utility showing BASE-10 values as noted by looking at your drive and volume sizes. If you use Terminal you can see sizes still represented as BASE-2, as one would expect, however iTunes is also still represented capacities as BASE-2. You test this yourself by going to iTunes and single-clicking any one item that is locally stored on your Mac. At the bottom it will show the size of the item. If you now Option-Click that item and choose Show In Finder it will show you a different, somewhat larger size.
The part where we do, because trusting the cloud to your documents is moronic.
Moronic?
:sigh: I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but your refusal to be objective or rational has become tiresome. No good deed...
That's a very odd conclusion to come to. Is all of this really going over your head?
So you'd find find fault with Google docs and other web apps or Google ChromeOS on the same grounds? Just curious.
At least Apple's iCloud use on iOS devices is for the customer benefit just putting in the cloud what is most useful. Google wants to funnel things that would be done just as well or better locally into the cloud just to drive traffic and increase ad revenue.
On a personal note isn't anyone else tired of Google called 5 times a day trying to sell advertising?