<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/166994/apple-expected-to-sit-out-on-megapixel-horserace-with-2014-iphones/80#post_2493763" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>abazigal</strong> <a href="/t/166994/apple-expected-to-sit-out-on-megapixel-horserace-with-2014-iphones/80#post_2493763"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/166994/apple-expected-to-sit-out-on-megapixel-horserace-with-2014-iphones/80#post_2493742" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>snova</strong> <a href="/t/166994/apple-expected-to-sit-out-on-megapixel-horserace-with-2014-iphones/80#post_2493742"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <p>I think the decision for PDF may have been a bit more simplistic and historical in nature. As you recall, Apple and Adobe got together and developed the Laserwriter printer. This printer used the Adobe Postscript language as its basis for rendering. It produce beautiful output but it was not exactly "What You See Is What You Get" (WYSIWYG) at the time because the display rendering engine was not in sync with the printer rendering engine. So when Steve got kicked out of Apple, he wanted for the NeXTSTEP Workstation to support Postscript rendering directly in GUI rendering engine to put this problem to rest. This resulted in "Display Postscript" support. So in short, the screen and printer both render the same because they spoke the same language. When Apple bought NeXT Computer, they based Mac OS X on NeXTSTEP OS with a few UI changes. Since Adobe PDF was derived from Adobe Postscript and had grown in popularity (overtaking Postscript), one of those changes was to update NeXTSTEP Display Postscript Rendering Engine to Render PDF. Not sure how many people know this, but your Mac and your iOS device's display rendering engine understands PDF directly. So support for PDF is by design based on its roots from NeXT Computer and the Laserwriter and a desire for true WSIWYG. This is what allows you to "Print to PDF file" from any application in Mac OS X because its already in PDF on the screen.</p></div></div><p>Not what I would call simpler, but it also makes sense. I would never have thought of looking at it from a printer perspective. Thanks for the share! :)</p></div></div><p>abazigal,</p><p>you are quite welcome. Ironically this takes us full circle to think about camera MP needs from a printer perspective. These days most photos never get printed and live out their life on a 72 dpi screen (typically 1MP - see the chart I posted above) or Phone screen with about the same effective pixels. If you are lucky enough to have a Retina iPad, we are talking 3MP. For those which do make it to prints, most are 4x6 (which if you look at the chart above requires just 1-2 MP). For the few prints that get printed at 8x10, requires just 4-6 MP. Anything beyond that like 20x30 posters, we are talking maybe once or twice per lifetime and requires about 10MP. I would hope people would have enough common sense invest into more serious camera equipment than a smart phone if they ever attempted to print something that large and truly understood the costs involved for making and framing a print that large. Its gonna be expensive and noticeable flows will be very apparent and regrettable. We are easily talking $70-100 for that print size completely framed up. </p>
You make a great point. All photos taken on my iphone are usually shared online, never printed, and even then, they are compressed to save on bandwidth anyways.
Heck, even the photographs we take of school events with cameras turn out small and grainy when printed in the school newsletter.
This is definitely a calculated move on Apple's part.
Megapixels whatever. If I'm taking really nice photos I wouldn't use my iPhone with a 500 Gazillion megapixel camera, I use a DSLR. Until one of these companies talking about their big bad megapixel crap phones makes one that shoots RAW they need to shut up.
You answered your own question and totaly proved their point with the 64bit crack. Apple released it and others said it was a gimmick and a joke because THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT. Seems like Apple was prepping for the future curve with desktop class ray tracing capabilities coming to mobile devices soon.
You answered your own question and totaly proved their point with the 64bit crack. Apple released it and others said it was a gimmick and a joke because THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT. Seems like Apple was prepping for the future curve with desktop class ray tracing capabilities coming to mobile devices soon.
Samsung Note 3 already has 3GB of RAM. Adding the need to address peripherals and I think its easy to see that they are already at the limit of 32 bits addressability. They need it more than Apple did, who is currently at 1GB RAM even on the iPad Air. See my signature below.
There is nothing wrong with Apples conservative approach to digital cameras. The photos that my daughter takes with her iPhone 5 are quite nice looking, very sharp, accurate color reproduction and when printed look pretty fantastic. So I don't think improving on their already proven platform will change many peoples minds. I however still prefer my Nokia 1020 ProView for taking pictures, call it hype, call it a silly amount of MP's but the level of detail in that massive sensor and brilliant control I have over almost every aspect of the photo taking process it is defiantly the best experience I have had on any phone. I'm also one of the few who actually likes the Window's 8 mobile experience, especially for sharing, editing and viewing photos on OneDrive. The level of integration of their cloud services is really quite impressive. The 50GB of free OneDrive space plus my extra 200GB subscription totaling 250GB for under 100 dollars a year and the speed at which the RAW 38MP files and the 5MP photos are uploaded, under 60 seconds is insanely awesome. Last thing, the camera grip accessory with built in battery not only adds some of the best protection (can survive a drop from 4 feet onto concrete, done it) you can have for a phone but adds an additional 2 hours of continues photo taking. This phone was made for serious photography, which is why National Geographic issue them out to their field personal.
I'm sure Samsung's attempt at a superior mobile camera experience will be just that an attempt. However you cannot deny that their are companies out there that have successfully merged a high pixel count sensor into a phone, i.e. my Nokia 1020. Even if you don't like Windows 8 mobile, Nokia's overall software experience (that camera phone app is just so impressive), fit and finish is spot on. So I didn't mean to butt in, it's just all this talk of 5MP, 8MP is enough, more than 8MP isn't necessarily talk just got me thinking how much I like my 38MP camera phone and the photos it takes so it can't all be hype. I think Apple has a certain budget to maintain their large margins and adding a higher MP sensor is probably not viable in their set budget nor is it warranted. Apple has their loyal users and it's unlikely many will leave nest because a camera happens to better on a different platform. Apple users want the entire package to work, great you have a nice camera but if the software behind it sucks who cares. That's why Samsung will fail but please don't bundle in all high MP camera phones in the same category as Samsung, some actually pull it off quite nicely.
You completely misrepresented what I said and created a fictitiously bogus straw man argument and got called out on it and I am a d-bag? I have no idea what you mean by " is ok for forever on a phone image never to be printed" My point stands. Apple need to also focus on improving the FaceTime camera as well as the rear one and I doubt few here would disagree with that statement.
I think that Apple knows better than you what sort of a camera belongs on our phones, thankyouverymuch.
Personally id be super happy if apple bumped the megapixels slightly, just to 10MP, the ability to save to raw, OIS would be magic, a f2 lens (f1.8 in a dream world) even if the phone had to be slightly thicker to support the camera id be happy with that, then the extra space (thicker phone) could hold a bigger battery, an iPhone with 2x battery life would be O_o amazing
that would make me happy, I seriously doubt apple would actually do this tho, but hey, they might think of something else that would surprise us all.
Personally id be super happy if apple bumped the megapixels slightly, just to 10MP, the ability to save to raw, OIS would be magic, a f2 lens (f1.8 in a dream world) even if the phone had to be slightly thicker to support the camera id be happy with that, then the extra space (thicker phone) could hold a bigger battery, an iPhone with 2x battery life would be O_o amazing
that would make me happy, I seriously doubt apple would actually do this tho, but hey, they might think of something else that would surprise us all.
" And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray... And this paddle game. - The ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need... And this remote control. - The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need... And these matches. - The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control, and the paddle ball... And this lamp. - The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The paddle game and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches for sure. Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need."
Personally id be super happy if apple bumped the megapixels slightly, just to 10MP, the ability to save to raw, OIS would be magic, a f2 lens (f1.8 in a dream world) even if the phone had to be slightly thicker to support the camera id be happy with that, then the extra space (thicker phone) could hold a bigger battery, an iPhone with 2x battery life would be O_o amazing
that would make me happy, I seriously doubt apple would actually do this tho, but hey, they might think of something else that would surprise us all.
Megapixels whatever. If I'm taking really nice photos I wouldn't use my iPhone with a 500 Gazillion megapixel camera, I use a DSLR. Until one of these companies talking about their big bad megapixel crap phones makes one that shoots RAW they need to shut up.
Megapixels whatever. If I'm taking really nice photos I wouldn't use my iPhone with a 500 Gazillion megapixel camera, I use a DSLR. Until one of these companies talking about their big bad megapixel crap phones makes one that shoots RAW they need to shut up.
Both the 1520 the 1020 shoot RAW format
Awesome. Everyone who wants to use up 50MB/photo on their smart phone; raise their hand. The dirty secret about RAW, is that you rarely know ahead of time when you are going to need it. Therefore you need to shoot with RAW generated all the time to actually be able to use it at the rare times when you could benefit from it. In my DSLR, I have both JPEG and RAW generated at the same time. I first pull in the JPEGs only. If I find some photo would actually benefit from RAW in post (wrong WB, exposure, I want to play with push highlights or shadows), then tag it and pull the matching RAW off the card. However, based on the number of shots taken, needing RAW is relatively rare. Aperture supports this workflow, BTW.
Then again the type of people who buy a Nokia smartphone with 41MP (yes!!!!!) with Microsoft OS, over an iPhone probably NEED RAW and will use it on every shot.
" And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray... And this paddle game. - The ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need... And this remote control. - The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need... And these matches. - The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control, and the paddle ball... And this lamp. - The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The paddle game and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches for sure. Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need."
Righhhhtttt....... Anyways.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
I found RAW to be a waste of space.
Just as an option, you should check out what detail can be pulled out from photos in post when working from a raw file, its awesome.
jpg compression can be done poorly even by the best camera makers, so having uncompressed options would be awesome, makes that 8PM have so much more detail & dynamic range.
Just as an option, you should check out what detail can be pulled out from photos in post when working from a raw file, its awesome.
jpg compression can be done poorly even by the best camera makers, so having uncompressed options would be awesome, makes that 8PM have so much more detail & dynamic range.
Yes, but the average user wouldn't care. A pro would have a DSLR already so the segment that would want RAW on an iPhone is relatively small.
Then again the type of people who buy a Nokia smartphone with 41MP (yes!!!!!) with Microsoft OS, over an iPhone probably NEED RAW and will use it on every shot.
If you don't use Google services and don't care for iPhone exclusive games, Windows Phone doesn't actually seem that bad. The metro aesthetic works much better on a touchscreen phone than on a 27-inch desktop. And the OS uses hardware resources very efficiently.
Comments
You make a great point. All photos taken on my iphone are usually shared online, never printed, and even then, they are compressed to save on bandwidth anyways.
Heck, even the photographs we take of school events with cameras turn out small and grainy when printed in the school newsletter.
This is definitely a calculated move on Apple's part.
You answered your own question and totaly proved their point with the 64bit crack. Apple released it and others said it was a gimmick and a joke because THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT. Seems like Apple was prepping for the future curve with desktop class ray tracing capabilities coming to mobile devices soon.
My wife's smiling face!
Yeah, they were so slow at releasing 64bit.
You answered your own question and totaly proved their point with the 64bit crack. Apple released it and others said it was a gimmick and a joke because THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT. Seems like Apple was prepping for the future curve with desktop class ray tracing capabilities coming to mobile devices soon.
Samsung Note 3 already has 3GB of RAM. Adding the need to address peripherals and I think its easy to see that they are already at the limit of 32 bits addressability. They need it more than Apple did, who is currently at 1GB RAM even on the iPad Air. See my signature below.
There is nothing wrong with Apples conservative approach to digital cameras. The photos that my daughter takes with her iPhone 5 are quite nice looking, very sharp, accurate color reproduction and when printed look pretty fantastic. So I don't think improving on their already proven platform will change many peoples minds. I however still prefer my Nokia 1020 ProView for taking pictures, call it hype, call it a silly amount of MP's but the level of detail in that massive sensor and brilliant control I have over almost every aspect of the photo taking process it is defiantly the best experience I have had on any phone. I'm also one of the few who actually likes the Window's 8 mobile experience, especially for sharing, editing and viewing photos on OneDrive. The level of integration of their cloud services is really quite impressive. The 50GB of free OneDrive space plus my extra 200GB subscription totaling 250GB for under 100 dollars a year and the speed at which the RAW 38MP files and the 5MP photos are uploaded, under 60 seconds is insanely awesome. Last thing, the camera grip accessory with built in battery not only adds some of the best protection (can survive a drop from 4 feet onto concrete, done it) you can have for a phone but adds an additional 2 hours of continues photo taking. This phone was made for serious photography, which is why National Geographic issue them out to their field personal.
I'm sure Samsung's attempt at a superior mobile camera experience will be just that an attempt. However you cannot deny that their are companies out there that have successfully merged a high pixel count sensor into a phone, i.e. my Nokia 1020. Even if you don't like Windows 8 mobile, Nokia's overall software experience (that camera phone app is just so impressive), fit and finish is spot on. So I didn't mean to butt in, it's just all this talk of 5MP, 8MP is enough, more than 8MP isn't necessarily talk just got me thinking how much I like my 38MP camera phone and the photos it takes so it can't all be hype. I think Apple has a certain budget to maintain their large margins and adding a higher MP sensor is probably not viable in their set budget nor is it warranted. Apple has their loyal users and it's unlikely many will leave nest because a camera happens to better on a different platform. Apple users want the entire package to work, great you have a nice camera but if the software behind it sucks who cares. That's why Samsung will fail but please don't bundle in all high MP camera phones in the same category as Samsung, some actually pull it off quite nicely.
You completely misrepresented what I said and created a fictitiously bogus straw man argument and got called out on it and I am a d-bag? I have no idea what you mean by " is ok for forever on a phone image never to be printed" My point stands. Apple need to also focus on improving the FaceTime camera as well as the rear one and I doubt few here would disagree with that statement.
I think that Apple knows better than you what sort of a camera belongs on our phones, thankyouverymuch.
So Nexus aren't top tier and the HTC One?
Neither of them are as good as the iPhone. No, they are not top-tier. The iPhone is tops.
Personally id be super happy if apple bumped the megapixels slightly, just to 10MP, the ability to save to raw, OIS would be magic, a f2 lens (f1.8 in a dream world) even if the phone had to be slightly thicker to support the camera id be happy with that, then the extra space (thicker phone) could hold a bigger battery, an iPhone with 2x battery life would be O_o amazing
that would make me happy, I seriously doubt apple would actually do this tho, but hey, they might think of something else that would surprise us all.
Just give it a 0.95. I’m sure Leica would be happy to give them a bulk discount.
Personally id be super happy if apple bumped the megapixels slightly, just to 10MP, the ability to save to raw, OIS would be magic, a f2 lens (f1.8 in a dream world) even if the phone had to be slightly thicker to support the camera id be happy with that, then the extra space (thicker phone) could hold a bigger battery, an iPhone with 2x battery life would be O_o amazing
that would make me happy, I seriously doubt apple would actually do this tho, but hey, they might think of something else that would surprise us all.
" And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray... And this paddle game. - The ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need... And this remote control. - The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need... And these matches. - The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control, and the paddle ball... And this lamp. - The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The paddle game and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches for sure. Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need."
Personally id be super happy if apple bumped the megapixels slightly, just to 10MP, the ability to save to raw, OIS would be magic, a f2 lens (f1.8 in a dream world) even if the phone had to be slightly thicker to support the camera id be happy with that, then the extra space (thicker phone) could hold a bigger battery, an iPhone with 2x battery life would be O_o amazing
that would make me happy, I seriously doubt apple would actually do this tho, but hey, they might think of something else that would surprise us all.
I found RAW to be a waste of space.
Megapixels whatever. If I'm taking really nice photos I wouldn't use my iPhone with a 500 Gazillion megapixel camera, I use a DSLR. Until one of these companies talking about their big bad megapixel crap phones makes one that shoots RAW they need to shut up.
Both the 1520 the 1020 shoot RAW format
Megapixels whatever. If I'm taking really nice photos I wouldn't use my iPhone with a 500 Gazillion megapixel camera, I use a DSLR. Until one of these companies talking about their big bad megapixel crap phones makes one that shoots RAW they need to shut up.
Both the 1520 the 1020 shoot RAW format
Awesome. Everyone who wants to use up 50MB/photo on their smart phone; raise their hand. The dirty secret about RAW, is that you rarely know ahead of time when you are going to need it. Therefore you need to shoot with RAW generated all the time to actually be able to use it at the rare times when you could benefit from it. In my DSLR, I have both JPEG and RAW generated at the same time. I first pull in the JPEGs only. If I find some photo would actually benefit from RAW in post (wrong WB, exposure, I want to play with push highlights or shadows), then tag it and pull the matching RAW off the card. However, based on the number of shots taken, needing RAW is relatively rare. Aperture supports this workflow, BTW.
Then again the type of people who buy a Nokia smartphone with 41MP (yes!!!!!) with Microsoft OS, over an iPhone probably NEED RAW and will use it on every shot.
Just checked out the 1520. Pretty impressive, I'll shut up.
" And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray... And this paddle game. - The ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need... And this remote control. - The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need... And these matches. - The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control, and the paddle ball... And this lamp. - The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The paddle game and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches for sure. Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need."
Righhhhtttt....... Anyways.......
I found RAW to be a waste of space.
Just as an option, you should check out what detail can be pulled out from photos in post when working from a raw file, its awesome.
jpg compression can be done poorly even by the best camera makers, so having uncompressed options would be awesome, makes that 8PM have so much more detail & dynamic range.
Yes, but the average user wouldn't care. A pro would have a DSLR already so the segment that would want RAW on an iPhone is relatively small.
Then again the type of people who buy a Nokia smartphone with 41MP (yes!!!!!) with Microsoft OS, over an iPhone probably NEED RAW and will use it on every shot.
If you don't use Google services and don't care for iPhone exclusive games, Windows Phone doesn't actually seem that bad. The metro aesthetic works much better on a touchscreen phone than on a 27-inch desktop. And the OS uses hardware resources very efficiently.