Gigawire = 802.16?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
It seems that the 12/6/2001 passing of IEEE 802.16 has come and gone with little fan fare... And after I tried to get more specifics on the standard I guess I can see why... It seems nobody in the press has any idea what the spec is all about... All the press seems to to is re-write the IEEE press release. The IEEE PR seems to leave out most of the details of the spec. I'm still looking for some pretty basic answers (speed/distance/line of sight?/non-line of sight?/cost/eta of hardware/etc/etc/etc)



The info I have read so far seems to indicate a technology that has a much longer range than say 802.11 and a higher speed as well... They like to refer to the technology as WirelessMAN or MertoAreaNetwork so the distance could be MUCH MUCH MUCH better than 802.11.



The freq. that 802.16 runs in is 10 - 66Ghz (hmm could this be what Apple is calling GIGAWIRE?)



If anyone can find additional info on 802.16 please let me know!



Dave
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    where's the wire?
  • Reply 2 of 28
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>where's the wire?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    heh, exactly. I really believe Gigawire is Firewire2. Look at the spec for 1394b, it reaches speeds up to 1600mbits (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It seems much more deserving of the term "gigawire". Oh and check the U.S. trademark database. Apple has a TM on "GigaWire".



    Besides, Apple just realised Airport 2. I think its going to be awhile before they switch to a different wireless frequency unless there was a free/easy way to upgrade existing base stations.
  • Reply 3 of 28
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>where's the wire?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    After reading the following from the TM/SM database:



    If you look at the SM's (service marks) Gigawire seems to have little or nothing to do with Firewire...



    -----------------

    Gigawire



    IC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: Telecommunication services; cellular telephone communication; Communication by computer terminals, communication by telephone, facsimile transmission; providing of electronic mail (E-Mail); computer aided transmission of messages and images; communication between computer peripherals and devices; information about telecommunication.



    IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: electrical and electronic equipment; computer hardware; computer firmware; computers; computer peripheral devices; handheld computers; telephones, mobile telephones, communication devices; telecommunications equipment and devices; wireless information devices; computer software programs; computer operating system programs; computer utility programs; computer application programs; computer software for the design, development, modeling, simulation, compiling, de-bugging, verification, construction and interfacing of electrical and electronic equipment, integrated circuits, cables and connectors all for use with computers, telecommunications equipment and devices, or computer peripheral devices; parts and fittings for all the aforesaid goods.



    -----------------



    It seems that "WIRE" has very little to do with Gigawire..



    Dave
  • Reply 4 of 28
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Oh any for the rest of the folks who still seem to think that Gigawire = new Firewire.. here is what the Firewire SM says:



    -----------------

    Firewire



    IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer utility software; computers; computer peripherals and consumer electronics, namely, scanners, smart monitors, modems, printers, disk drives, namely fixed, floppy, cartridge and tape drives, CD-ROM drives, CD-Recordable (CD-R) drives, CD-Rewritable (CD-RW) drives; DVD-ROM (Read-only DVD) drives, and Rewritable DVD (DVD-RAM) drives; VCRs; digital televisions; stereo receivers; DVD players; video game machines for use with a television or computer; network interfaces, namely cable modems, routers, bridges, gateways, and hubs; professional and consumer audio and musical amplifiers; video special effects generators; digital photographic cameras; digital motion picture cameras; industrial test equipment, namely, data measurement units, digital displays, industrial controllers and controller test systems comprised of computer hardware, and software for testing industrial equipment; scientific and medical imaging systems comprised of graphical displays for images, digital cameras and image processing computer hardware and software; and magneto-optical drives. FIRST USE: 19950825. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950825

    -----------------



    Now after reading the two service marks (SM's) how can anyone think that Gigawire and Firewire are even semi-related?



    Dave
  • Reply 5 of 28
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Damn it! I want faster firewire. Give me 3200Mbps, which is the maximum for the 'b' spec, though manufacturers may not implement it right away.



    Although... airport type access anywhere in the city might be pretty nice too.
  • Reply 6 of 28
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    [quote]Originally posted by Matsu:

    <strong>Damn it! I want faster firewire. Give me 3200Mbps, which is the maximum for the 'b' spec, though manufacturers may not implement it right away.



    Although... airport type access anywhere in the city might be pretty nice too.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Matsu,



    I never said the next gen firewire wasn't on it's way (I'm sure it is) and 3.2Gbps can/will happen so long as the device you are using has/supports glass-fiber as the connection method, using plastic fiber is slower and copper (standard firewire connection IIRC) slower still... but yes I'm sure the new Firewire is going to happen... It's just that Gigawire doesn't seem to be it's name.



    Dave



    [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
  • Reply 7 of 28
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    I know. I was just being a little dramatic. I'm supposed to be working you know, and I'm a little bored.



    Even the 1.6Gbps speed would be great. Just about fast enough to replace PCI. This is crucial for the future of consumer peripherals on the mac. If manufacturers could easily bridge a PCI peripheral the way they now do with IDE drives, we'd have a whole new world of peripherals. Eg. Want a second display for that iMac? No problem, get yourself a Firewire video card and a second display. Perhpas a kind of RTMac variant. I know these applications reach into the 'pro' sphere, but I bet a lot more consumers would buy Macs when the sales people/press couldn't tell them macs aren't upgradeable/expandable anymore.



    Faster firewire Apple. Do it now!
  • Reply 8 of 28
    [quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:

    <strong>

    Now after reading the two service marks (SM's) how can anyone think that Gigawire and Firewire are even semi-related?

    Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Honestly, now I'm just confused. It doesn't sound like its related to Airport either. Did you look that one up? (I didn't, I'm too lazy! hah) Why is it listed as "Telecommunications" and not "Networking"?



    If anyone isn't as lazy as me and wants to quote the Aiport TM also, that might help.



    Maybe we're looking at something completely different here? Something totally new?



    I guess it also doesn't make sense why they'd rename Firewire to Gigawire anyway. Just call it "Firewire 2" or something.
  • Reply 9 of 28
    Nevermind:



    IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer software, computer hardware and computer peripherals for a wireless technology to provide communication between multiple computers and between computers and local and global computer networks, and instruction manuals sold as a unit therewith





    Ok, now GigaWire doesn't sound anything like that either.
  • Reply 10 of 28
    x704x704 Posts: 276member
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>where's the wire?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Where's the fire in Firewire? There's none, rather it's symbolic. Perhpas kindof how one would usually use a wire to transfer data, so "wire". Where's the airport in airport? Again, none, just symbolic, travels through the air.



    I really hope that Gigawire is a long range/high speed wireless network standard. If so Apple could count on my wife & I buying new G4/G5 (whatever comes out) ASAP. Airports to slow for my liking & I assume that if GigaWire had a transfer range large enough that Broadband ISP's would offer connection through it (and since I can't get Broadband access [except through satalite, I'm not paying $700 + $70/month for slower then DSL/Cable when I live in Brooklyn!! No matter how many times Earthlink send me junkmail!!).



    Okay, I'm done now, C'mon Gigawire, don't disappoint!



    Oh, and as far as Apple just releasing Airport 2, I believe that they promised this way back when airport was unvieled, they had to. Additionally, many schools and businesses have invested in airport & the range/speed is adequate so they won't want to upgrade their network but they can use airport 2. The schools & businesses could certainly use the 50 sim. connections; Businesses undoubtedly like/need the 128 encyrption.
  • Reply 11 of 28
    sc_marktsc_markt Posts: 1,401member
    Gigawire may somehow be related to the rapidIO technology. If you read the .pdf file from Motorola on RapidIO, it sounds like it can be used in networking as well as internally.



    - Mark
  • Reply 12 of 28
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    I've been doing a lot of on-again off-again research on Gigawire and one item that seems very interesting to me is that Apple was one of the MAJOR backers (read as Apple spent a good deal of cash) to convince the FCC to provide public access to some of the freq. spectrum. Here is a link to the press release:



    <a href="http://product.info.apple.com/pr/press.releases/1997/q2/970128.pr.rel.fcc.html"; target="_blank">http://product.info.apple.com/pr/press.releases/1997/q2/970128.pr.rel.fcc.html</a>;



    It makes specific mention of the 5Ghz band..



    Now read this from another site:



    ==================================

    The FCC Allocates 300 MHz of Spectrum for U-NII use in the 5 GHz Band - On January, 1997 the FCC made available 300 MHz of spectrum for Unlicensed National Information Infrastructure (U-NII) products. The FCC believes that the creation of the U-NII band will stimulate the development of new unlicensed digital products which will provide efficient and less expensive solutions for local access applications.



    The U-NII band is divided into three sub bands at 5.15 &lt; 5.25 / 5.25 &lt; 5.35 / 5.725 &lt; 5.825 GHz. The first band is strictly allocated for indoor use and is consistent with the European High Performance Local Area Network (HIPERLAN). The second and third bands are intended for high speed digital local access products for "campus" and "shorthaul" microwave applications.

    Short Haul Microwave Applications in the U-NII Band - The FCC rules for products operating in bands 2 and 3 of the U-NII band are best suited for digital microwave applications over distances in excess of 10 miles. FCC spectral efficiency and maximum power requirements for these bands facilitate the deployment of highly reliable microwave links for both data and telephony transmission.

    ==================================



    Finally guess what bands are covered in the 802.16 spec?



    802.16a = 2 - 11Ghz Licensed

    802.16b = 5 - 6Ghz License Exempt



    I also read that the two specs (802.16a and 802.16b) have merged (whatever that means) but sounds like a good thing I'd guess...



    Dave
  • Reply 13 of 28
    murkmurk Posts: 935member
    Don't know if this is real or not, but I found this on Macrumors.com's forums. This was posted by Ensign Paris?

    [quote] I have just recieved two Switches from Cisco (G4 Powered) That for the uplink use a technology called GigaWire which transfers 800mb per second. It looks exactly the same as FireWire and there is a Firewire and Gigawire Trademark in the Manual.



    Also the Logo for Gigawire is exactly the same as FireWire.

    <hr></blockquote>
  • Reply 14 of 28
    murkmurk Posts: 935member
    From the service marks I was thinking maybe some new, fast way of sending data no matter what the pipe. Just a guess.
  • Reply 15 of 28
    This is what Kormac was talking about a year ago...
  • Reply 16 of 28
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    [quote]Originally posted by sc_markt:

    <strong>Gigawire may somehow be related to the rapidIO technology. If you read the .pdf file from Motorola on RapidIO, it sounds like it can be used in networking as well as internally.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    I was expecting RapidIO was gigawire too.



    I highly doubt they will rename the faster Firewire Gigawire. That will just confuse people. Besides Firewire is a much better name
  • Reply 17 of 28
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    [quote]Originally posted by Telomar:

    <strong>

    I was expecting RapidIO was gigawire too.



    I highly doubt they will rename the faster Firewire Gigawire. That will just confuse people. Besides Firewire is a much better name </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Okay... after another night of 'follow the links' I'm starting to think that Gigawire is indeed the name given to 1394b (aka Firewire II). While I still can't understand why the service-mark talks so much about cellular and telecommunications (but I guess we'll find out) I did find one more interesting item...



    Go to google and search for 802.11 and 802.11e (yes that is a lowecase letter E) you should find the following:



    <a href="http://www.firewireworld.com/news/2001/02/20010228/1394ta.shtml"; target="_blank">http://www.firewireworld.com/news/2001/02/20010228/1394ta.shtml</a>;



    A story from Firewire world (no longer publishing) talking about the 1394 trade association sending a liaison to the 802.11e task group to help write spec so it will allow for wireless firewire. (Feb 28 2001)



    Then on the 1394ta web site press archive you should find the following link:



    <a href="http://www.1394ta.org/Press/2001Press/december/12.3.a.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.1394ta.org/Press/2001Press/december/12.3.a.htm</a>;



    This talks about the IEEE 802.11e Wireless LAN Task Group adopting Quality of Service (QoS) enhancement proposals made by the 1394 Trade AssociationÂ?s Wireless Working Group (WWG).Â* Acceptance of the proposals enables the 1394 TAÂ?s Wireless Working Group to develop a 1394 protocol adaptation layer for devices using the 802.11e QoS provisions.



    Seems like we are finally going to see 'WirelessFirewire' or should I say 'GigaWireless'?



    I still don't see how cellular fits into the picture but maybe that was just Apple covering all the bases and/or Apple trying to mislead people till the last minute?



    Being in a bandwidth deprived area (I pay $150 per month for 75 dual channel ISDN hours and that is the best I can get) maybe I was just seeing/reading what **I** really wanted to have...



    Dave



    [ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
  • Reply 18 of 28
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Okay one more interesting tidbit...



    --------------------------------------------------------

    IDB-C, a low-speed data bus, is the first of a family of in-vehicle networks. IDB-C compatible products will include cellular phones, navigation systems, PDAs and other devices. IDB-C compatible devices could share a GPS receiver, for example. The final spec for IDB-C is due this summer with commercialization expected in year 2003 vehicles.



    A high-speed standard, called IDB 1394 is due to be published by the end of 2001 with commercial applications slated for 2004 vehicles. IDB 1394 will enable transfer of high-bandwidth video signals throughout the car as well as multiple streams of data to be accessed simultaneously. Those streams could include DVD, video games and music.

    --------------------------------------------------------



    "IDB 1394" = AutomotiveFirewire (Gigawire?)



    Hmmm if things go as well as I think they will at .25cents per port/per device Apple could very well make out like a bandit in the years to come.



    Seems to me Apple's 1394 is getting hooks into many markets... Computer / Video / Audio / Automotive / Networking



    The jury seems to be 'out' as far as HDTV connections go... HAVi is another connection spec that seems to be fighting for the right (as best as I can tell) but it sure seems 1394 has made lots of inroads into electronics that HAVi hasn't thus it might just become the defacto standard...



    Dave
  • Reply 19 of 28
    What if in fact "GigaWire" is a wire, it's some sort of device that transmits cellular or broadband casts to and from any firewire port. That would allow every Apple device to communicate seemlessly
  • Reply 20 of 28
    [quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:

    <strong>The jury seems to be 'out' as far as HDTV connections go... HAVi is another connection spec that seems to be fighting for the right (as best as I can tell) but it sure seems 1394 has made lots of inroads into electronics that HAVi hasn't thus it might just become the defacto standard...



    Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>



    HAVi uses Firewire. Firewire itself is just a bus/connector. You still need some protocol (ie. HAVi, mLAN, etc.) to get all the components to work together. Check out <a href="http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/"; target="_blank"> Mitsubishi's 'Net Command.'</a> Mitsubishi is the first company to roll out HAVi. Basically, they utilize high level HAVi interaction to connect their HDTVs, DVHS recorders, DVD players, DSS receivers, and other legacy components to each other using...[drumroll please]...IEEE 1394. The <a href="http://www.havi.org"; target="_blank">HAVi</a> and <a href="http://www.digitalharmony.com"; target="_blank">DigitalHarmony</a> websites should help to fill you in on this. To sum up, HAVi and Firewire go hand-in-hand since HAVi is dependent on Firewire.



    [ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Arty50 ]</p>
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