Why FW2? How about FW2 RAID with 200 or 400 MB/s fibre interconnects, hot-pluggable, etc.? Would that be compelling enough? Just an XServe afterthought.
On the same lines, how about XServe2 with up to 16 GB memory/U and 10 Gb NIC, ECC, and - up to 8 G5s?
I think the actual frame rate of HDTV is well below 60Hz, more like half of that. Also, while storing 24-bit pixels as doublewords (32 bits) is a good thing to do when storing them in VRAM, it's rather pointless when transmitting them across a serial line.
Bye,
RazzFazz</strong><hr></blockquote>
Build for the future, dude... source material wants to be in the highest possible quality so that you can selectively downgrade it for broadcast. 60+ Hz lets you do better pulldown. And 32-bit pixels can be 11-11-10 instead of 8-8-8-8.
Based on what you wrote I take it you really didn't read what I wrote. Just name one thing that will be faster with 1394b. As in the product developer would just needs to 'pull off' the old FW chip and replace it with the new one and bam 2x (or more times faster).
In short
FW Camera will be no faster
FW HD's will be no faster
FW CDRW's will be no faster
FW Scanners will be no faster
FW iPods will be no faster
It seemed to me (when I had started this thread) that for the most part FW2 would be like installing a 4" waterpipe in the 2nd story of a house (to provide more water then it has now) when you leave the city water line FEEDING the house with it's water at 1".
Some ideas given above about stuff that might be doable PCI over FW etc was the kinds of thing I was hoping this thread would spur talk about... Not just fluff answers to a real question.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Come on now.. do you seriously think that the features Apple works to put in their products and people drool over are anything they need or will actually use, much less notice? A prime example - who uses Gigabit ethernet? Apple might be about pushing the envelope and innovating the future, but they are a business that wants to be known as such in order to make money. It was hardly "fluff" as you put it, just because I didn't regurgitate or argue what you and everyone else were already saying.
i know this is off topic but apple messed up again. they listed the xserve having a 2GB limit. watch for "1024MB DDR 266MHz PC2100 ECC registered (128X72), 184 PINS. IN STOCK." only $300. thats less than what apple charges for a 512.
<strong>A prime example - who uses Gigabit ethernet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really bad example... We have gigabit hubs and CAN use them. Maybe you don't have a GigE switch but they are available and I happen to have 4 systems in my office that do use GigE.
[quote]<strong>It was hardly "fluff" as you put it, just because I didn't regurgitate or argue what you and everyone else were already saying.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It was a fluff answer (to me) because for you to say IT'S FASTER without even giving a single reason how you could use the speed made it seem as if you didn't read the first post in the thread **or** you did and just assumed it was really silly of me to be asking the question. Well thats the way I took it anyway.
The point of this thread was to try and get folks to think/discuss ways (any way) the extra speed of 1394b could be put to use... Many did just that... Where you came off sounding like the guy on Spinal Tap who said 'it goes to eleven'.
Sorry, too hard to explain you'd just have to have seen the movie.
Remember it can only be a feature if the person using it can be told WHY it's a feature.
Lets play a game:
We are in an Apple Store and you are a salesman...
Me: What can you tell me about this new version of FireWire I just read about.
You: It's really fast infact upto 8 TIMES faster.
Me: Wow! What can that do/use that my old FW can't?
Here's a nice quote from The Inquirer on VIA just realeasing a mobo with FW 2;
"THE MOTHERBOARD DIVISION of Via launched its P4PB Pro product today, a board which supports the Pentium 4 and includes the P4X 333 north bridge and the VT8235 south bridge.
Via said the board supports both 400MHz and 533MHz front side buses, DDR 333 memory, has integrated USB 2.0/1.1, Firewire II connectivity, 10/100 Ethernet, and a smart card connector.
The board also includes digital surround sound, while the Ethernet on board includes wake-on-LAN, remote boot, multiple VLAN and remote management software."
In 2010, there will be these ports on your computer:
Network
Desktop devices
Only two. You can have five FireWire 3 ports which Apple has decided to put speakers, keyboard, and mouse on. The bandwidth available for the entire set of devices for one computer will be enough to transmit native HDTV.
The network will be able to connect to other computers and intelligent network devices. It will possibly be the successor to Ethernet. Perhaps it will still be called Ethernet. 10 or 100 times as fast as 2002 network standard.
<strong>MOTU is revolutionizing the audio market with their new 896 firewire audio unit. I believe it will pull in 16 tracks of 24 bit 96 Khz audio concurrently. Oh, 16 tracks not enough, they daisychain. See them at <a href="http://www.motu.com"; target="_blank">MOTU</a>. they are featured on the front page. I'm waiting to see virtual patchbays using firewire. </strong><hr></blockquote>
the 896 does EIGHT channels at 96kHz - hence the name.
virtual patchbay coupled with audio i/o - check out the Metric Halo Mobile I/O for the ultimate in FireWire recording: <a href="http://www.mhlabs.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.mhlabs.com/</a>;
I've seen this unit in action; and I am absolutely convinced.
The only reason I'm hesitating is that I'm thinking of going Powerbook G4/PCMCIA interface - the PCMCIA has much higher bandwidth than FireWire, and will let me get more channels cheaper.
Comments
On the same lines, how about XServe2 with up to 16 GB memory/U and 10 Gb NIC, ECC, and - up to 8 G5s?
OK, OK, forget the second part, just kidding!
<strong>
I think the actual frame rate of HDTV is well below 60Hz, more like half of that. Also, while storing 24-bit pixels as doublewords (32 bits) is a good thing to do when storing them in VRAM, it's rather pointless when transmitting them across a serial line.
Bye,
RazzFazz</strong><hr></blockquote>
Build for the future, dude... source material wants to be in the highest possible quality so that you can selectively downgrade it for broadcast. 60+ Hz lets you do better pulldown. And 32-bit pixels can be 11-11-10 instead of 8-8-8-8.
<strong>
Based on what you wrote I take it you really didn't read what I wrote. Just name one thing that will be faster with 1394b. As in the product developer would just needs to 'pull off' the old FW chip and replace it with the new one and bam 2x (or more times faster).
In short
FW Camera will be no faster
FW HD's will be no faster
FW CDRW's will be no faster
FW Scanners will be no faster
FW iPods will be no faster
It seemed to me (when I had started this thread) that for the most part FW2 would be like installing a 4" waterpipe in the 2nd story of a house (to provide more water then it has now) when you leave the city water line FEEDING the house with it's water at 1".
Some ideas given above about stuff that might be doable PCI over FW etc was the kinds of thing I was hoping this thread would spur talk about... Not just fluff answers to a real question.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Come on now.. do you seriously think that the features Apple works to put in their products and people drool over are anything they need or will actually use, much less notice? A prime example - who uses Gigabit ethernet? Apple might be about pushing the envelope and innovating the future, but they are a business that wants to be known as such in order to make money. It was hardly "fluff" as you put it, just because I didn't regurgitate or argue what you and everyone else were already saying.
oh well.
<strong>A prime example - who uses Gigabit ethernet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really bad example... We have gigabit hubs and CAN use them. Maybe you don't have a GigE switch but they are available and I happen to have 4 systems in my office that do use GigE.
[quote]<strong>It was hardly "fluff" as you put it, just because I didn't regurgitate or argue what you and everyone else were already saying.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It was a fluff answer (to me) because for you to say IT'S FASTER without even giving a single reason how you could use the speed made it seem as if you didn't read the first post in the thread **or** you did and just assumed it was really silly of me to be asking the question. Well thats the way I took it anyway.
The point of this thread was to try and get folks to think/discuss ways (any way) the extra speed of 1394b could be put to use... Many did just that... Where you came off sounding like the guy on Spinal Tap who said 'it goes to eleven'.
Sorry, too hard to explain you'd just have to have seen the movie.
Remember it can only be a feature if the person using it can be told WHY it's a feature.
Lets play a game:
We are in an Apple Store and you are a salesman...
Me: What can you tell me about this new version of FireWire I just read about.
You: It's really fast infact upto 8 TIMES faster.
Me: Wow! What can that do/use that my old FW can't?
You: _______________
Dave
[ 05-31-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]
[ 05-31-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
"THE MOTHERBOARD DIVISION of Via launched its P4PB Pro product today, a board which supports the Pentium 4 and includes the P4X 333 north bridge and the VT8235 south bridge.
Via said the board supports both 400MHz and 533MHz front side buses, DDR 333 memory, has integrated USB 2.0/1.1, Firewire II connectivity, 10/100 Ethernet, and a smart card connector.
The board also includes digital surround sound, while the Ethernet on board includes wake-on-LAN, remote boot, multiple VLAN and remote management software."
Read it <a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/31050201.htm"; target="_blank">here</a>
In 2010, there will be these ports on your computer:
Network
Desktop devices
Only two. You can have five FireWire 3 ports which Apple has decided to put speakers, keyboard, and mouse on. The bandwidth available for the entire set of devices for one computer will be enough to transmit native HDTV.
The network will be able to connect to other computers and intelligent network devices. It will possibly be the successor to Ethernet. Perhaps it will still be called Ethernet. 10 or 100 times as fast as 2002 network standard.
The Trade Association has developed a prototype automobile FireWire backbone, but it's next generation."
<hr></blockquote>
I take that to mean that it is Firewire II Based. Read my rant from earlier in the week.
<strong>MOTU is revolutionizing the audio market with their new 896 firewire audio unit. I believe it will pull in 16 tracks of 24 bit 96 Khz audio concurrently. Oh, 16 tracks not enough, they daisychain. See them at <a href="http://www.motu.com"; target="_blank">MOTU</a>. they are featured on the front page. I'm waiting to see virtual patchbays using firewire. </strong><hr></blockquote>
the 896 does EIGHT channels at 96kHz - hence the name.
virtual patchbay coupled with audio i/o - check out the Metric Halo Mobile I/O for the ultimate in FireWire recording: <a href="http://www.mhlabs.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.mhlabs.com/</a>;
I've seen this unit in action; and I am absolutely convinced.
The only reason I'm hesitating is that I'm thinking of going Powerbook G4/PCMCIA interface - the PCMCIA has much higher bandwidth than FireWire, and will let me get more channels cheaper.
-spheric*