[quote]As for whether Apple have any intention of providing a 17" iMac, I've seen no indications that they do. <hr></blockquote>
How about the fact that the eMac is really a 17" iMac? C'mon. The trend is obviously towards larger monitors. (with your name, I'm surprised you missed that. )
Yeah, I *do* know how to let loose - but don't think you've see me do it. All I've done is plainly state a few basic concepts of intelligent discourse, since the conversation(s) displayed ignorance of them. If that's playing too rough for you, I have bad news about the rest of your life....
I've been around & posting since the "old days" here @ AI, and while there've been plenty of pipe dreams and silly conjecture, I never saw that as the point of the discussion here: I've generally chalked it up to mental laziness, intellectual dishonesty, and/or the failure of parents & schools to teach kids how to think, and why. But I'm not here because I'm bored or lazy, 'cause I have nothing else to do, or to make **** up & then act like I did something: I'm here to actually talk about stuff that requires real thinking, and to hear from others who actually know some things & who try to apply what they know to what they think about. It's called knowledge & experience, and practical intelligence. Amorph, Programmer, Razz Fazz, and others whose names I can't recall right this minute are good examples of what I'm here for. You want to show up & talk on a serious level, fine: let's talk; you wanna practice your stance, your attitude, I have no time for you.
As far as "rational reasons given as to why many believed a 19" iMac was unlikely", every one of them applies equally well to the 17"; but because people want the 17" iMac to 'come true', the pull a Scarlett O'Hara & just refuse to think about what might really be going on.
I mean it's all so, like, ninth grade...
And lastly: logic is often useless and/or inappropriate, particularly where emotions are concerned; reason, on the other hand, is always useful and appropriate, 'cause it helps you stay clear about what you're doing. If you have an emotional reaction to all things Apple, and you want to let them out here to share, fine; but that's not thinking, and you're not gaining anything by pretending it is.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You don't get it ,do you.
You can spout out all your so called "intelligent discource" until the cows come home. Call it what you will, educated guess, knowledge, intelligence, etc. It doesn't change the fact that it's still conjecture. Understand this. No one has the right answer. Not you, not me.
And, if you really take it that seriously, and are so easily offended by everyone's desire to have pipe dreams, then you really don't know how to let loose.
[SNIP] Satchmo, you are aptly named. I have been around these fora here for quite a while, and do remember when things were not simply "wild speculation and pipe dreams," but there was time for well-considered sparring amongst speculators and rumor-mongers. Most everyone who has been around for a while will agree with me. With the arrival of a pile of trolls some time after the WorkerBee situation, the level of discussion dropped to the point where a decent thread is now an extreme rarity around here.[SNAP]
I would hope this thread gets back on topic.
I personally do not see a 19 inch mac in the works, but do see the 17 (though a wide-19 might be plausible as someone stated above). If that support-arm already has problems holding up the 15, we are in for a ride with a larger one. The card that drives that display is also going to get a little hot under the collar in its weensy housing.
I'm not sure if I should take that as a compliment or an insult.
Regardless, all I'm trying to get across is that we're free to voice our thoughts and beliefs. Free from higher academic or elitist attitudes who feel they can only converse with their own kind.
I still believe a 17" iMac is in the works, but probably a year down the road. But I don't have any facts to back that up.
Obviously, the new iMac lends itself to periodic updating of components better than the previous iMac.
A 17" LCD glass isn't too much heavier. We're taking minor modification here, not complete redesign (as per the original imac).
The base and the arm are sturdy, but if they needed a little redesign, what would it take? They make two different sizes of iBook out of essentially the same parts.
Base too light? Screw a heavier bottom cover on the machine. Arm to weak? Dial in a little more resistance.
We WILL see a 17" LCD iMac. When? That's the real question. And the real answer is, probably, not for a while yet.
Will anybody ever get the "Apple's gonna release an iMac with a bigger screen..." rumors out of their system? They've been around for at lease 2-3 years! At every show, people would say "Oh, Apple's just GOTTA release iMacs with larger screens!", and they never did.
Aside from that, I think an iMac in it's current form factor with a 17-inch(and even more the 19-inch) would look very top-heavy.
I didn't check the date of the article, but it's a definite possibility that 17" info was describing the eMac and not a future iMac.
However, I think a 17" LCD iMac is much more likely than a 19" CRT eMac. That'd be a big eMac, but that's not why I'd bet against it. The design will have to last 3-4 years (just look at the original iMac) So, while 19" CRT's will probably be dirt cheap by then (heck, they already are!), so will small and mid size LCD's. By 2005, LCD's cost about half (or less) what they currently cost. It's much easier to add a bigger LCD than a CRT.
Redesigning eMac won't be worth the bother, having bigger LCD's will.
Uhhh, you wrote so much and said so little.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Pot. Kettle. Black.
[quote]<strong>I have yet to see any logical argument from you that proves that the current iMac's base cannot accomodate a larger LCD display.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nor will you, because THAT'S NOT MY POINT.
My point is two-fold: engineers would have to okay the iMac for a big screen - both the arm as is & the overall weight & proportions as is - or re-engineer it for a bigger screen; there is to myknowledge no proof and no indication that Apple has any intention of even investigating, much less planning, a larger-screen iMac.
I'm perfectly willing to be convinced, even persuaded, so how about it?
[quote]<strong>I want to see calculations, not conjecture.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Learn to live with disappointment.
[quote]<strong>If you're going to accuse Apple of such gross stupidity, then the burden of proof is on you.
I think you're problem is that no matter what Apple does, it's not good enough for you. You must complain about everything, whine and bitch constantly. I never can understand why people like you even bother to use Macs, much less visit Mac forums. If you hate Apple so much, then don't use a Mac! </strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>How about the fact that the eMac is really a 17" iMac? C'mon. The trend is obviously towards larger monitors. (with your name, I'm surprised you missed that. )</strong><hr></blockquote>
What I did not miss is that we've been discussing the G4 iMac - you know, w/ the LCD screen? I also did not miss Apple's (so far) steadfast refusal to bring out a 17" consumer machine, despite the calls for them to do so (eMac doesn't count, btw).
Yes, the long trend is toward larger displays, and I'll happily use the biggest, brightest, clearest screen I can afford . However, the iMac trend to date is 'one screen size fits all'.
<strong>You don't get it ,do you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Truly, you know far more about not getting it than I.
[quote]<strong>You can spout out all your so called "intelligent discource" until the cows come home. Call it what you will, educated guess, knowledge, intelligence, etc. It doesn't change the fact that it's still conjecture. Understand this. No one has the right answer. Not you, not me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're absolutely right: I am NOT the boss of you. What was it that set you off, the grown-up tone, or all the big words?
[quote]<strong>And, if you really take it that seriously, and are so easily offended by everyone's desire to have pipe dreams, then you really don't know how to let loose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Offended? Yeah, I suppose so, in the same way I'm offended by my neighbor's trashy, overgrown, sawdust-heaped & dogpile-strewn backyard.
And, yeah, I'd have to say that I take little things like reality & using my brain pretty seriously. However, I spoke to you plainly and honestly, as an adult, without offense or defense; since that clearly offends you, I'll clear out & leave you to it.
Oh, and you could help me not bother you in the future; just put "Crack House" or "Circle Jerk" or something in the subject line & I'll steer clear.
Yes, the long trend is toward larger displays, and I'll happily use the biggest, brightest, clearest screen I can afford . However, the iMac trend to date is 'one screen size fits all'.</strong><hr></blockquote>
that was also the iBook trend and now look at it. 2 models
[quote] I personally do not see a 19 inch mac in the works, but do see the 17 (though a wide-19 might be plausible as someone stated above). If that support-arm already has problems holding up the 15, we are in for a ride with a larger one. The card that drives that display is also going to get a little hot under the collar in its weensy housing.
<hr></blockquote>
The iMac's arm supports the current 15" LCD fine, I don't know where you got the idea that it doesn't.
Also, it doesn't use resistance to support the display, rather, a spring is used to counterweight the display. A heavier display would simply need a different spring.
It's not a question of engineering, it's a question of intent. That's what's so obnoxious about some of the posts here....people saying that the iMac cannot get a larger LCD display because of engineering constraints. IF the management at Apple decides they want to offer a 17" LCD iMac, it can and will be done, end of story. The upshot is that it can be done with the current iMac design using very minor modifications, because the current iMac was designed with display upgrades in mind.
[quote] What I did not miss is that we've been discussing the G4 iMac - you know, w/ the LCD screen? <hr></blockquote>
Yeah, you know, the one with the screen which would be simple to upgrade, compared with the previous iMac?
[quote] I also did not miss Apple's (so far) steadfast refusal to bring out a 17" consumer machine, despite the calls for them to do so (eMac doesn't count, btw). <hr></blockquote>
"How about the fact that the eMac is really a 17" iMac? C'mon. The trend is obviously towards larger monitors. (with your name, I'm surprised you missed that. )"
Yeah. That's why Apple stuck with the 15 inch imac for years... (just teasing...)
I'm with JD and Co on this one.
Not sure about whether we'll the 19 inch any time soon but then, you only have to look at any piece of apple kit in the last few years to see that anything's possible. I don't think weight will be the issue. Having played with the 15inch lcd then...17inch? No bother. 19 inch? They'll just stick a stronger spring in the arm!
(Gee, I'm an engineer already... )
Think the 17 inch imac is equally likely in the light of the ibook getting a 14 inch screen less than a year within its release.
I think Apple are learning to listen to what its customers want.
I also think if they start offering the 'emac' to generally consumer-land then maybe further differentiation with screen size and bumped spec maybe necessary.
I think we'll see a top end iMac with better graphics card eg Geforce 4 mx and 17 inch lcd screen. Bump in processor to 1 gig g4.
I think you've got a perfectly respectable prosumer machine at that.
I'm there's a few people who wanna bite but the limiatations of the 15 inch screen for palette hungry apps and the lack of a more recent graphics card ala Geforce 4mx are holding them off.
If they bump the screen, card and processor...I'll give the imac a long, hard look. Specially while I'm waiting for the G5...
The 'bigger' screen? It's obviously a matter of time...
Offended? Yeah, I suppose so, in the same way I'm offended by my neighbor's trashy, overgrown, sawdust-heaped & dogpile-strewn backyard.
And, yeah, I'd have to say that I take little things like reality & using my brain pretty seriously. However, I spoke to you plainly and honestly, as an adult, without offense or defense; since that clearly offends you, I'll clear out & leave you to it.
Oh, and you could help me not bother you in the future; just put "Crack House" or "Circle Jerk" or something in the subject line & I'll steer clear.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As I mentioned, I don't have the time for your attitude... you and everyone else can simply check the beginning of this thread and see how easily you were offended by people simply disagreeing with you...grow up.
Comments
How about the fact that the eMac is really a 17" iMac? C'mon. The trend is obviously towards larger monitors. (with your name, I'm surprised you missed that.
<strong>
A couple of points:
Yeah, I *do* know how to let loose - but don't think you've see me do it. All I've done is plainly state a few basic concepts of intelligent discourse, since the conversation(s) displayed ignorance of them. If that's playing too rough for you, I have bad news about the rest of your life....
I've been around & posting since the "old days" here @ AI, and while there've been plenty of pipe dreams and silly conjecture, I never saw that as the point of the discussion here: I've generally chalked it up to mental laziness, intellectual dishonesty, and/or the failure of parents & schools to teach kids how to think, and why. But I'm not here because I'm bored or lazy, 'cause I have nothing else to do, or to make **** up & then act like I did something: I'm here to actually talk about stuff that requires real thinking, and to hear from others who actually know some things & who try to apply what they know to what they think about. It's called knowledge & experience, and practical intelligence. Amorph, Programmer, Razz Fazz, and others whose names I can't recall right this minute are good examples of what I'm here for. You want to show up & talk on a serious level, fine: let's talk; you wanna practice your stance, your attitude, I have no time for you.
As far as "rational reasons given as to why many believed a 19" iMac was unlikely", every one of them applies equally well to the 17"; but because people want the 17" iMac to 'come true', the pull a Scarlett O'Hara & just refuse to think about what might really be going on.
I mean it's all so, like, ninth grade...
And lastly: logic is often useless and/or inappropriate, particularly where emotions are concerned; reason, on the other hand, is always useful and appropriate, 'cause it helps you stay clear about what you're doing. If you have an emotional reaction to all things Apple, and you want to let them out here to share, fine; but that's not thinking, and you're not gaining anything by pretending it is.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You don't get it ,do you.
You can spout out all your so called "intelligent discource" until the cows come home. Call it what you will, educated guess, knowledge, intelligence, etc. It doesn't change the fact that it's still conjecture. Understand this. No one has the right answer. Not you, not me.
And, if you really take it that seriously, and are so easily offended by everyone's desire to have pipe dreams, then you really don't know how to let loose.
And surely I don't have time for you.
<strong>Understand this. No one has the right answer. Not you, not me. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The truth is out there! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>
The truth is out there! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. That's the kind of levity we need.
I would hope this thread gets back on topic.
I personally do not see a 19 inch mac in the works, but do see the 17 (though a wide-19 might be plausible as someone stated above). If that support-arm already has problems holding up the 15, we are in for a ride with a larger one. The card that drives that display is also going to get a little hot under the collar in its weensy housing.
Hope, however, springs eternal.
Mandricard,
AppleOutsider
<strong>[SNIP] Satchmo, you are aptly named.
Mandricard,
AppleOutsider</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not sure if I should take that as a compliment or an insult.
Regardless, all I'm trying to get across is that we're free to voice our thoughts and beliefs. Free from higher academic or elitist attitudes who feel they can only converse with their own kind.
I still believe a 17" iMac is in the works, but probably a year down the road. But I don't have any facts to back that up.
A 17" LCD glass isn't too much heavier. We're taking minor modification here, not complete redesign (as per the original imac).
The base and the arm are sturdy, but if they needed a little redesign, what would it take? They make two different sizes of iBook out of essentially the same parts.
Base too light? Screw a heavier bottom cover on the machine. Arm to weak? Dial in a little more resistance.
We WILL see a 17" LCD iMac. When? That's the real question. And the real answer is, probably, not for a while yet.
Isn't it likely that the origiginal article includes a mistake?
The authors have changed an i for an e?
This means: The article is about production of 17" eMacs (CRT, allready in work) and 19" eMacs (CRT too, future product)?
Sound not very hopefull but more realistic... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Aside from that, I think an iMac in it's current form factor with a 17-inch(and even more the 19-inch) would look very top-heavy.
/ ducks in expectation of Flaming Crow® /
Edit: spelling
[ 06-03-2002: Message edited by: Steve's Job ]</p>
However, I think a 17" LCD iMac is much more likely than a 19" CRT eMac. That'd be a big eMac, but that's not why I'd bet against it. The design will have to last 3-4 years (just look at the original iMac) So, while 19" CRT's will probably be dirt cheap by then (heck, they already are!), so will small and mid size LCD's. By 2005, LCD's cost about half (or less) what they currently cost. It's much easier to add a bigger LCD than a CRT.
Redesigning eMac won't be worth the bother, having bigger LCD's will.
<strong>
Uhhh, you wrote so much and said so little.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Pot. Kettle. Black.
[quote]<strong>I have yet to see any logical argument from you that proves that the current iMac's base cannot accomodate a larger LCD display.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nor will you, because THAT'S NOT MY POINT.
My point is two-fold: engineers would have to okay the iMac for a big screen - both the arm as is & the overall weight & proportions as is - or re-engineer it for a bigger screen; there is to myknowledge no proof and no indication that Apple has any intention of even investigating, much less planning, a larger-screen iMac.
I'm perfectly willing to be convinced, even persuaded, so how about it?
[quote]<strong>I want to see calculations, not conjecture.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Learn to live with disappointment.
[quote]<strong>If you're going to accuse Apple of such gross stupidity, then the burden of proof is on you.
I think you're problem is that no matter what Apple does, it's not good enough for you. You must complain about everything, whine and bitch constantly. I never can understand why people like you even bother to use Macs, much less visit Mac forums. If you hate Apple so much, then don't use a Mac!
Oh, puleez! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I'm as much an Apple basher as you are the Pope: you won't find a single post from me that supports this nonsense.
Good luck finding whoever it is you're thinking of, 'cause it ain't me.
<strong>How about the fact that the eMac is really a 17" iMac? C'mon. The trend is obviously towards larger monitors. (with your name, I'm surprised you missed that.
What I did not miss is that we've been discussing the G4 iMac - you know, w/ the LCD screen?
Yes, the long trend is toward larger displays, and I'll happily use the biggest, brightest, clearest screen I can afford
<strong>You don't get it ,do you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Truly, you know far more about not getting it than I.
[quote]<strong>You can spout out all your so called "intelligent discource" until the cows come home. Call it what you will, educated guess, knowledge, intelligence, etc. It doesn't change the fact that it's still conjecture. Understand this. No one has the right answer. Not you, not me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're absolutely right: I am NOT the boss of you. What was it that set you off, the grown-up tone, or all the big words?
[quote]<strong>And, if you really take it that seriously, and are so easily offended by everyone's desire to have pipe dreams, then you really don't know how to let loose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Offended? Yeah, I suppose so, in the same way I'm offended by my neighbor's trashy, overgrown, sawdust-heaped & dogpile-strewn backyard.
And, yeah, I'd have to say that I take little things like reality & using my brain pretty seriously. However, I spoke to you plainly and honestly, as an adult, without offense or defense; since that clearly offends you, I'll clear out & leave you to it.
Oh, and you could help me not bother you in the future; just put "Crack House" or "Circle Jerk" or something in the subject line & I'll steer clear.
<strong>
Yes, the long trend is toward larger displays, and I'll happily use the biggest, brightest, clearest screen I can afford
that was also the iBook trend and now look at it. 2 models
<hr></blockquote>
The iMac's arm supports the current 15" LCD fine, I don't know where you got the idea that it doesn't.
Also, it doesn't use resistance to support the display, rather, a spring is used to counterweight the display. A heavier display would simply need a different spring.
It's not a question of engineering, it's a question of intent. That's what's so obnoxious about some of the posts here....people saying that the iMac cannot get a larger LCD display because of engineering constraints. IF the management at Apple decides they want to offer a 17" LCD iMac, it can and will be done, end of story. The upshot is that it can be done with the current iMac design using very minor modifications, because the current iMac was designed with display upgrades in mind.
Think about it.
Yeah, you know, the one with the screen which would be simple to upgrade, compared with the previous iMac?
[quote] I also did not miss Apple's (so far) steadfast refusal to bring out a 17" consumer machine, despite the calls for them to do so (eMac doesn't count, btw). <hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.thinksecret.com/features/emacretail.html"; target="_blank">You might want to revise that.</a>
[quote] However, the iMac trend to date is 'one screen size fits all'. <hr></blockquote>
And Apple's trend is towards giving the market what it wants. We probably won't see a 17" New iMac this year, but it's a shoe-in upgrade next year.
[quote] Do a lot of engineering design do ya? <hr></blockquote>
<Jimmy Conway>Nice one, Spider. (Looks at JYD) You gonna take that **** from him? </Jimmy Conway>
Yeah. That's why Apple stuck with the 15 inch imac for years... (just teasing...)
I'm with JD and Co on this one.
Not sure about whether we'll the 19 inch any time soon but then, you only have to look at any piece of apple kit in the last few years to see that anything's possible. I don't think weight will be the issue. Having played with the 15inch lcd then...17inch? No bother. 19 inch? They'll just stick a stronger spring in the arm!
(Gee, I'm an engineer already...
Think the 17 inch imac is equally likely in the light of the ibook getting a 14 inch screen less than a year within its release.
I think Apple are learning to listen to what its customers want.
I also think if they start offering the 'emac' to generally consumer-land then maybe further differentiation with screen size and bumped spec maybe necessary.
I think we'll see a top end iMac with better graphics card eg Geforce 4 mx and 17 inch lcd screen. Bump in processor to 1 gig g4.
I think you've got a perfectly respectable prosumer machine at that.
I'm there's a few people who wanna bite but the limiatations of the 15 inch screen for palette hungry apps and the lack of a more recent graphics card ala Geforce 4mx are holding them off.
If they bump the screen, card and processor...I'll give the imac a long, hard look. Specially while I'm waiting for the G5...
The 'bigger' screen? It's obviously a matter of time...
Lemon Bon Bon
Here's my guess:
- new iMacs at MWNY with speed bump
- *perhaps* a high-end iMac with 17" display (but only if LCD prices continue to fall from their recent price spike)
And,
- a new 19" display added to Apple LCD Display line
A 19" screen on the iMac isn't unthinkable -- just too expensive right now for a consumer model.
[ 06-04-2002: Message edited by: Hobbes ]</p>
<strong>
Offended? Yeah, I suppose so, in the same way I'm offended by my neighbor's trashy, overgrown, sawdust-heaped & dogpile-strewn backyard.
And, yeah, I'd have to say that I take little things like reality & using my brain pretty seriously. However, I spoke to you plainly and honestly, as an adult, without offense or defense; since that clearly offends you, I'll clear out & leave you to it.
Oh, and you could help me not bother you in the future; just put "Crack House" or "Circle Jerk" or something in the subject line & I'll steer clear.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As I mentioned, I don't have the time for your attitude... you and everyone else can simply check the beginning of this thread and see how easily you were offended by people simply disagreeing with you...grow up.