Let me rephrase that. Does anyone who has or had daughters think this song is okay for kids?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
I think it's okay for 12 and above. I certainly have less of a problem with that song, which is meant to be a joke and isn't hurtful to anyone than with a rapper who talks about "bitches and hoes". But let's say it isn't okay for a 12-year-old. Why does it need to be censored? Why can't parents raise their kids so either
a) they'd have no interest in that song -or-
b) they'd tell their kid that they didn't want them listening to it (and the kid would actually obey).
Your first question made me think you don't have kids. Since you say otherwise, I can only imagine that you don't understand them. Your kids' interest in music is going to be 10% to do with your household and 90% due to school and friends. There's just no way around that.
Your second question is far more interesting. That is exactly the case in our household, but our kids are in the minority, and so are we, as parents. Most parents haven't a clue what their kids listen to, and the kids do whatever they want because the parents aren't diligent enough to keep up and follow through. Then they share with their friends, who share with their friends; eventually it lands in your family, and parents either notice or not. It sucks, but it's reality.
Quote:
Certainly, even 10-year-old girls know that boys are sexually attracted to them, even if they don't understand every aspect of what that physical attraction means.
If you really believe this, then I feel very sad. Neither of my kids had a clue even about what "sexual attraction" meant at age 10, and I'm quite happy about that. I don't know where you live, but in our city that kind of young-age attitude happens mostly in the lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. In the more affluent schools you see almost nothing even around the edges until 12 or 13, and if you're lucky as we are, not until 14 or 15. And yeah, I mean just having a clue about what "sexual attraction" even is. Kids should be free to be kids, not worried about this stuff so early.
Let me rephrase that. Does anyone who has or had daughters think this song is okay for kids?
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/176800/explicit-content-slipping-through-apples-itunes-radio-profanity-filters#post_2507597" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span><div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>zoetmb</strong> <a href="/t/176800/explicit-content-slipping-through-apples-itunes-radio-profanity-filters#post_2507597"><img src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" class="inlineimg" alt="View Post"/></a><br/><br/><p>I think it's okay for 12 and above. I certainly have less of a problem with that song, which is meant to be a joke and isn't hurtful to anyone than with a rapper who talks about "bitches and hoes". But let's say it isn't okay for a 12-year-old. Why does it need to be censored? Why can't parents raise their kids so either </p><p>a) they'd have no interest in that song -or-</p><p>b) they'd tell their kid that they didn't want them listening to it (and the kid would actually obey).</p><p> </p></div></div>
Your first question made me think you don't have kids. Since you say otherwise, I can only imagine that you don't understand them. Your kids' <i>interest</i> in music is going to be 10% to do with your household and 90% due to school and friends. There's just no way around that.
Your second question is far more interesting. That is exactly the case in our household, but our kids are in the minority, and so are we, as parents. Most parents haven't a clue what their kids listen to, and the kids do whatever they want because the parents aren't diligent enough to keep up and follow through. Then they share with their friends, who share with their friends; eventually it lands in your family, and parents either notice or not. It sucks, but it's reality.
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/176800/explicit-content-slipping-through-apples-itunes-radio-profanity-filters#post_2507597" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span><div class="quote-block"><p>Certainly, even 10-year-old girls know that boys are sexually attracted to them, even if they don't understand every aspect of what that physical attraction means. </p></div></div>
If you really believe this, then I feel very sad. Neither of my kids had a clue even about what "sexual attraction" meant at age 10, and I'm quite happy about that. I don't know where you live, but in our city that kind of young-age attitude happens mostly in the lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. In the more affluent schools you see almost nothing even around the edges until 12 or 13, and if you're lucky as we are, not until 14 or 15. And yeah, I mean just having a clue about what "sexual attraction" even is. Kids should be free to be kids, not worried about this stuff so early.
I certainly have less of a problem with that song, which is meant to be a joke and isn't hurtful to anyone than with a rapper who talks about "bitches and hoes".
I should also mention: we can disagree on the meaning of this particular song, but if you think Macklemore doesn't have songs about "bitches and hoes", you need to go read some of his lyric sheets.
When kids have free run of music, they will gravitate toward popular musicians and bands. He is VERY popular right now, and trust me, if they're listening to one of his songs, they're listening to many (or all) of his songs.
I'm not big on censorship, because I feel like adults are adults, and they should for the most part have the freedom to listen to, watch, read or say, what they want. But kids are different. They need guidance, and way too much of their "guidance" is coming from assholes that write and perform music like this, which is ostensibly aimed at an older audience, but in reality is not.
Let me rephrase that. Does anyone who has or had daughters think this song is okay for kids?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
I think it's okay for 12 and above. I certainly have less of a problem with that song, which is meant to be a joke and isn't hurtful to anyone than with a rapper who talks about "bitches and hoes". But let's say it isn't okay for a 12-year-old. Why does it need to be censored? Why can't parents raise their kids so either
a) they'd have no interest in that song -or-
b) they'd tell their kid that they didn't want them listening to it (and the kid would actually obey).
Your first question made me think you don't have kids. Since you say otherwise, I can only imagine that you don't understand them. Your kids' interest in music is going to be 10% to do with your household and 90% due to school and friends. There's just no way around that.
Your second question is far more interesting. That is exactly the case in our household, but our kids are in the minority, and so are we, as parents. Most parents haven't a clue what their kids listen to, and the kids do whatever they want because the parents aren't diligent enough to keep up and follow through. Then they share with their friends, who share with their friends; eventually it lands in your family, and parents either notice or not. It sucks, but it's reality.
Quote:
Certainly, even 10-year-old girls know that boys are sexually attracted to them, even if they don't understand every aspect of what that physical attraction means.
If you really believe this, then I feel very sad. Neither of my kids had a clue even about what "sexual attraction" meant at age 10, and I'm quite happy about that. I don't know where you live, but in our city that kind of young-age attitude happens mostly in the lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. In the more affluent schools you see almost nothing even around the edges until 12 or 13, and if you're lucky as we are, not until 14 or 15. And yeah, I mean just having a clue about what "sexual attraction" even is. Kids should be free to be kids, not worried about this stuff so early.
Now I think you're the one who's naive. On the one hand, you say that kids' interest in music comes from peers. But you don't think their peers talk about sex? It's all around them. Even on TV shows before the safe-harbor time of 10pm and even on shows that are considered family comedies, there is constant talk about sex. And if they don't get it from those shows, they get it from watching Mylie Cyrus videos or whatever. But that isn't what I said anyway. What I said is that kids are aware of attraction. Don't little girls act silly in front of little boys and vice-versa in ways that they don't do when they're just with members of their own sex? That's awareness of gender differences.
Everyone thinks their own kids aren't like the "other" kids and are sexually unaware. That's absurd. You think because you're white and middle- or upper-class that your kids aren't aware? Ha ha ha.
Haven't you ever heard about the two seven-year-olds sitting on the swings in the back yard?
Country kid: I found a condom under the porch.
City kid: What's a porch?
I would say in the case of my daughter, 50% of her musical influences came from me, 20% from listening to AOR and Public radio, 20% from her school (once they put on a play, she got very into Broadway show music) and 10% from her peers. Once she got into high school it would be 0% from her school and 30% from her peers, who happened to have very diverse tastes in music. They all listened to everything from 1920s jazz and blues to various genres of latin music, folk, pop, some classical, the rock canon, new age...just about everything. She never listened to rap or hip hop, although I'm sure some of the other high school kids did (she attended a very small private high school) and she was never all that into punk. She was more into bands like 10,000 Maniacs and Edie Brickell.
In the case of my 11-year-old granddaughter, it's 50% from her parents, mostly her mother, and 50% from her participation in music lessons, chorus, etc. And what she listened to was very well controlled because she wasn't permitted to purchase her own music online and she only had an iPod, not a smartphone and she didn't have her own computer until recently. There's monitoring software installed so that her parents get to see every site she visits and every email she gets or writes. I'm sure when she gets older she'll insist on privacy, but for now, that's the deal.
In the case of my about to be 5-year-old grandson, it's a subset on what he's heard in the house and the car. He's still at the age where he listens to children's music, but he also loves the Beatles and he's (surprisingly for the age), very attracted to the heavier guitar solos. His favorite Beatle songs are "I Saw Her Standing There", "Helter Skelter" and "Day Tripper", but also "Magical Mystery Tour", even though there's no guitar solo. I keep threatening to teach him all the words to a long Dylan song (like "Just Like A Woman"), but he's not interested as yet.
I was going to skip the response, because I don't believe personal stuff belongs on a public blog, but I'm going to try to be short and hope it doesn't come out as curt or rude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
Now I think you're the one who's naive. On the one hand, you say that kids' interest in music comes from peers. But you don't think their peers talk about sex?
No.
In fact I know they didn't. Not at 12/13, let alone age 10.
It's all around them.
No it's not. You're projecting. Maybe for your kids, but not mine, nor most of their friends. Some of that is parenting, much of it is their nature.
Even on TV shows before the safe-harbor time of 10pm and even on shows that are considered family comedies, there is constant talk about sex. And if they don't get it from those shows, they get it from watching Mylie Cyrus videos or whatever.
Again, you're projecting based on your own family life. My kids don't watch any of that stuff, before or after 10pm. They're uninterested in TV - they don't watch it at all unless there's something special that we record for them. As parents we almost never watch it either; certainly not when they're around. Kids learn what they see around them. Fortunately, most of their friends are not interested in mass-media crap either. We are in an unusual school/crowd though, in that regard. I actually like some of Mylie Cyrus' stuff, my kids both think she's stupid.
But that isn't what I said anyway. What I said is that kids are aware of attraction. Don't little girls act silly in front of little boys and vice-versa in ways that they don't do when they're just with members of their own sex? That's awareness of gender differences.
No, what you said was: "Certainly, even 10-year-old girls know that boys are sexually attracted to them, even if they don't understand every aspect of what that physical attraction means."
I call bullshit on that. NONE of the 10-year old girls I knew (at that age) acted silly in the ways you're thinking in front of the boys (though I have seen it kick in with a few at maybe 13). For the most part they ignored the boys and did their own thing. If there was any discussion at all it was about how stupid the boys were. The boys certainly weren't sexually attracted to the girls at that age either, they were playing sports and doing their own thing. There was very little in the way of engagement between genders at that age, except when forced by teacher groupings, and yes, I spent many, many hours at school, so I saw firsthand until high school. By 13 that's another story for a few of the kids, but mine and their friends at that age still had absolutely no interest and not a lot in the way of even understanding any of what you're insinuating.
Look, so many parents are proud of their kids "growing up", and it comes out in their praise, language, body language, everything. I see young kids elsewhere around town dressed up pretending they're 5 years older than they really are. It's stupid. We've never encouraged that kind of premature growing up at all. In our lives, growing up mostly means taking more responsibility for themselves, not mimicking stupid adults. Kids should be kids, and not under pressure to "grow up" based on the ridiculous crap portrayed by TV and magazine covers.
Everyone thinks their own kids aren't like the "other" kids and are sexually unaware. That's absurd.
I understand the point you're making here because it's common. Most people think their own shit doesn't stink, it's true. And many, if not most, parents are pretty clueless about their kids because they're too busy living their own lives. It appalls me, and I think it promotes some of what you're talking about. But, my kids never went to daycare, never even had a babysitter, had both parents totally involved in their daily lives and schools, are still engaged to this day and know virtually all their friends. What you're talking about does eventually happen, but you are grossly wrong about the age range among our kids' schools and our kids' peers, and frankly, I think you're off by quite a bit even in the general case.
Comments
I think it's okay for 12 and above. I certainly have less of a problem with that song, which is meant to be a joke and isn't hurtful to anyone than with a rapper who talks about "bitches and hoes". But let's say it isn't okay for a 12-year-old. Why does it need to be censored? Why can't parents raise their kids so either
a) they'd have no interest in that song -or-
b) they'd tell their kid that they didn't want them listening to it (and the kid would actually obey).
Your first question made me think you don't have kids. Since you say otherwise, I can only imagine that you don't understand them. Your kids' interest in music is going to be 10% to do with your household and 90% due to school and friends. There's just no way around that.
Your second question is far more interesting. That is exactly the case in our household, but our kids are in the minority, and so are we, as parents. Most parents haven't a clue what their kids listen to, and the kids do whatever they want because the parents aren't diligent enough to keep up and follow through. Then they share with their friends, who share with their friends; eventually it lands in your family, and parents either notice or not. It sucks, but it's reality.
Certainly, even 10-year-old girls know that boys are sexually attracted to them, even if they don't understand every aspect of what that physical attraction means.
If you really believe this, then I feel very sad. Neither of my kids had a clue even about what "sexual attraction" meant at age 10, and I'm quite happy about that. I don't know where you live, but in our city that kind of young-age attitude happens mostly in the lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. In the more affluent schools you see almost nothing even around the edges until 12 or 13, and if you're lucky as we are, not until 14 or 15. And yeah, I mean just having a clue about what "sexual attraction" even is. Kids should be free to be kids, not worried about this stuff so early.
Good post.
I certainly have less of a problem with that song, which is meant to be a joke and isn't hurtful to anyone than with a rapper who talks about "bitches and hoes".
I should also mention: we can disagree on the meaning of this particular song, but if you think Macklemore doesn't have songs about "bitches and hoes", you need to go read some of his lyric sheets.
When kids have free run of music, they will gravitate toward popular musicians and bands. He is VERY popular right now, and trust me, if they're listening to one of his songs, they're listening to many (or all) of his songs.
I'm not big on censorship, because I feel like adults are adults, and they should for the most part have the freedom to listen to, watch, read or say, what they want. But kids are different. They need guidance, and way too much of their "guidance" is coming from assholes that write and perform music like this, which is ostensibly aimed at an older audience, but in reality is not.
Good post.
Thanks. Sometimes I wonder if anyone's listening. Good to know at least someone is! :-)
Let me rephrase that. Does anyone who has or had daughters think this song is okay for kids?
I think it's okay for 12 and above. I certainly have less of a problem with that song, which is meant to be a joke and isn't hurtful to anyone than with a rapper who talks about "bitches and hoes". But let's say it isn't okay for a 12-year-old. Why does it need to be censored? Why can't parents raise their kids so either
a) they'd have no interest in that song -or-
b) they'd tell their kid that they didn't want them listening to it (and the kid would actually obey).
Your first question made me think you don't have kids. Since you say otherwise, I can only imagine that you don't understand them. Your kids' interest in music is going to be 10% to do with your household and 90% due to school and friends. There's just no way around that.
Your second question is far more interesting. That is exactly the case in our household, but our kids are in the minority, and so are we, as parents. Most parents haven't a clue what their kids listen to, and the kids do whatever they want because the parents aren't diligent enough to keep up and follow through. Then they share with their friends, who share with their friends; eventually it lands in your family, and parents either notice or not. It sucks, but it's reality.
Certainly, even 10-year-old girls know that boys are sexually attracted to them, even if they don't understand every aspect of what that physical attraction means.
If you really believe this, then I feel very sad. Neither of my kids had a clue even about what "sexual attraction" meant at age 10, and I'm quite happy about that. I don't know where you live, but in our city that kind of young-age attitude happens mostly in the lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. In the more affluent schools you see almost nothing even around the edges until 12 or 13, and if you're lucky as we are, not until 14 or 15. And yeah, I mean just having a clue about what "sexual attraction" even is. Kids should be free to be kids, not worried about this stuff so early.
Now I think you're the one who's naive. On the one hand, you say that kids' interest in music comes from peers. But you don't think their peers talk about sex? It's all around them. Even on TV shows before the safe-harbor time of 10pm and even on shows that are considered family comedies, there is constant talk about sex. And if they don't get it from those shows, they get it from watching Mylie Cyrus videos or whatever. But that isn't what I said anyway. What I said is that kids are aware of attraction. Don't little girls act silly in front of little boys and vice-versa in ways that they don't do when they're just with members of their own sex? That's awareness of gender differences.
Everyone thinks their own kids aren't like the "other" kids and are sexually unaware. That's absurd. You think because you're white and middle- or upper-class that your kids aren't aware? Ha ha ha.
Haven't you ever heard about the two seven-year-olds sitting on the swings in the back yard?
Country kid: I found a condom under the porch.
City kid: What's a porch?
I would say in the case of my daughter, 50% of her musical influences came from me, 20% from listening to AOR and Public radio, 20% from her school (once they put on a play, she got very into Broadway show music) and 10% from her peers. Once she got into high school it would be 0% from her school and 30% from her peers, who happened to have very diverse tastes in music. They all listened to everything from 1920s jazz and blues to various genres of latin music, folk, pop, some classical, the rock canon, new age...just about everything. She never listened to rap or hip hop, although I'm sure some of the other high school kids did (she attended a very small private high school) and she was never all that into punk. She was more into bands like 10,000 Maniacs and Edie Brickell.
In the case of my 11-year-old granddaughter, it's 50% from her parents, mostly her mother, and 50% from her participation in music lessons, chorus, etc. And what she listened to was very well controlled because she wasn't permitted to purchase her own music online and she only had an iPod, not a smartphone and she didn't have her own computer until recently. There's monitoring software installed so that her parents get to see every site she visits and every email she gets or writes. I'm sure when she gets older she'll insist on privacy, but for now, that's the deal.
In the case of my about to be 5-year-old grandson, it's a subset on what he's heard in the house and the car. He's still at the age where he listens to children's music, but he also loves the Beatles and he's (surprisingly for the age), very attracted to the heavier guitar solos. His favorite Beatle songs are "I Saw Her Standing There", "Helter Skelter" and "Day Tripper", but also "Magical Mystery Tour", even though there's no guitar solo. I keep threatening to teach him all the words to a long Dylan song (like "Just Like A Woman"), but he's not interested as yet.
Now I think you're the one who's naive. On the one hand, you say that kids' interest in music comes from peers. But you don't think their peers talk about sex?
No.
In fact I know they didn't. Not at 12/13, let alone age 10.
No it's not. You're projecting. Maybe for your kids, but not mine, nor most of their friends. Some of that is parenting, much of it is their nature.
Again, you're projecting based on your own family life. My kids don't watch any of that stuff, before or after 10pm. They're uninterested in TV - they don't watch it at all unless there's something special that we record for them. As parents we almost never watch it either; certainly not when they're around. Kids learn what they see around them. Fortunately, most of their friends are not interested in mass-media crap either. We are in an unusual school/crowd though, in that regard. I actually like some of Mylie Cyrus' stuff, my kids both think she's stupid.
No, what you said was: "Certainly, even 10-year-old girls know that boys are sexually attracted to them, even if they don't understand every aspect of what that physical attraction means."
I call bullshit on that. NONE of the 10-year old girls I knew (at that age) acted silly in the ways you're thinking in front of the boys (though I have seen it kick in with a few at maybe 13). For the most part they ignored the boys and did their own thing. If there was any discussion at all it was about how stupid the boys were. The boys certainly weren't sexually attracted to the girls at that age either, they were playing sports and doing their own thing. There was very little in the way of engagement between genders at that age, except when forced by teacher groupings, and yes, I spent many, many hours at school, so I saw firsthand until high school. By 13 that's another story for a few of the kids, but mine and their friends at that age still had absolutely no interest and not a lot in the way of even understanding any of what you're insinuating.
Look, so many parents are proud of their kids "growing up", and it comes out in their praise, language, body language, everything. I see young kids elsewhere around town dressed up pretending they're 5 years older than they really are. It's stupid. We've never encouraged that kind of premature growing up at all. In our lives, growing up mostly means taking more responsibility for themselves, not mimicking stupid adults. Kids should be kids, and not under pressure to "grow up" based on the ridiculous crap portrayed by TV and magazine covers.
I understand the point you're making here because it's common. Most people think their own shit doesn't stink, it's true. And many, if not most, parents are pretty clueless about their kids because they're too busy living their own lives. It appalls me, and I think it promotes some of what you're talking about. But, my kids never went to daycare, never even had a babysitter, had both parents totally involved in their daily lives and schools, are still engaged to this day and know virtually all their friends. What you're talking about does eventually happen, but you are grossly wrong about the age range among our kids' schools and our kids' peers, and frankly, I think you're off by quite a bit even in the general case.