Fine, use that in the MacBook Air. It's impossible to build anything cheaper than that if you have to pay Intel's piratical prices. This would be a new, lower price category.
Airmont will cost anywhere from $30~$40.
The current Haswell Core i5 in the MBA costs $315.
Is that Apple's price or the half-price deal they had to give the "Ultrabook" manufacturers so they could compete with the MacBook Air?
Doesn't matter. If Intel is selling anything for $30-$40 (just to be clear, I don't believe that for a second), its capabilities are going to be enormously less than that Haswell processor. I'm sure an A8 (whatever it may turn out to be) could run rings around it, and cost <$20.
And before you said "why bother with an iOS/ARM device anyway?" I'm not proposing an iOS device. I'm sure Apple has desktop versions of Safari, iLife, and iWork running on ARM chips right now, and that's all a lot of people really need. Some people buy Chromebooks, don't they?
Microsoft tried the same thing with the Surface RT, but they didn't have real usable applications that could run on it. Apple, I'm willing to bet, does.
Is that Apple's price or the half-price deal they had to give the "Ultrabook" manufacturers so they could compete with the MacBook Air?
Doesn't matter. If Intel is selling anything for $30-$40 (just to be clear, I don't believe that for a second), its capabilities are going to be enormously less than that Haswell processor. I'm sure an A8 (whatever it may turn out to be) could run rings around it, and cost <$20.
And before you said "why bother with an iOS/ARM device anyway?" I'm not proposing an iOS device. I'm sure Apple has desktop versions of Safari, iLife, and iWork running on ARM chips right now, and that's all a lot of people really need. Some people buy Chromebooks, don't they?
Microsoft tried the same thing with the Surface RT, but they didn't have real usable applications that could run on it. Apple, I'm willing to bet, does.
$315 is the price listed on ARK.
A $37 Z3770 (Silvermont) already outperforms Apple's A7, the Z3795 even more-so.
14nm Airmont is the replacement to 22nm Silvermont. Airmont is expected to offer 3x~4x the performance of Silvermont. Airmont is coming around the time an A8 would release, and Airmont's successor (14nm Goldmont) will be out before Apple's A9.
Some morons on the internet like to say that iPhones and iPads are just toys.
The fact of the matter is that these morons have always been clueless. Apple is so far ahead of the game. iOS devices are being used more and more as desktop replacements all of the time. Sure, they do make wonderful toys, if that's somebody's intention, but iOS devices are also increasingly being used to replace various tasks traditionally done on desktops and laptops. For some people, an iOS device is all they'll ever need.
And now we find out that the A7 chip is closer to a desktop CPU than a regular mobile chip? Well, I for one am not surprised at all.
Best mobile OS? iOS by far. It's far more efficient than anything else, it's more powerful and has the best design and most apps.
Best mobile CPU? Apple's A series by far. I can't wait to pick up my next iPad, which will have an A8 chip inside of it. That thing is going to be sweet. If I meet an ignorant Fandroid and they start blabbering about meaningless specs, I'm going to have no choice but to smack them upside the head with my new iPad Air. I have no patience for rude and ignorant fools.
Best Apps, Appstore and eco system? Apple of course, duh. Anything of importance is made for iOS, often exclusively. And need I even mention the gigantic business of third party iOS accessories?
Best users? Apple users of course. Most are not ignorant when it comes to tech purchases, they aren't fooled by meaningless specs, they aren't fooled by pathetic, lying astroturf campaigns and they appreciate the best that money can buy.
A $37 Z3770 (Silvermont) already outperforms Apple's A7, the Z3795 even more-so.
14nm Airmont is the replacement to 22nm Silvermont. Airmont is expected to offer 3x~4x the performance of Silvermont. Airmont is coming around the time an A8 would release, and Airmont's successor (14nm Goldmont) will be out before Apple's A9.
Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device. Hey, for the price of that Haswell processor, they could build a laptop with a 32-core (16 A8s) CPU, with money to spare!
Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device.
No, Silvermont is nothing like any previous Atom processor. You don't need to "believe" Intel, products with Silvermont already exist.
The A7 is limited to 31 bits of address space (2GB) by iOS 7 currently. While it is technically a 64 bit operating system, Apple found it to be more efficient to limit address space. Many developers, including myself, are hoping to see at least 42 bits of address space in iOS 8. Then we will see real competition with desktop computers.
Some morons on the internet like to say that iPhones and iPads are just toys.
The fact of the matter is that these morons have always been clueless. Apple is so far ahead of the game. iOS devices are being used more and more as desktop replacements all of the time. Sure, they do make wonderful toys, if that's somebody's intention, but iOS devices are also increasingly being used to replace various tasks traditionally done on desktops and laptops. For some people, an iOS device is all they'll ever need.
And now we find out that the A7 chip is closer to a desktop CPU than a regular mobile chip? Well, I for one am not surprised at all.
Best mobile OS? iOS by far. It's far more efficient than anything else, it's more powerful and has the best design and most apps.
Best mobile CPU? Apple's A series by far. I can't wait to pick up my next iPad, which will have an A8 chip inside of it. That thing is going to be sweet. If I meet an ignorant Fandroid and they start blabbering about meaningless specs, I'm going to have no choice but to smack them upside the head with my new iPad Air. I have no patience for rude and ignorant fools.
Best Apps, Appstore and eco system? Apple of course, duh. Anything of importance is made for iOS, often exclusively. And need I even mention the gigantic business of third party iOS accessories?
Best users? Apple users of course. Most are not ignorant when it comes to tech purchases, they aren't fooled by meaningless specs, they aren't fooled by pathetic, lying astroturf campaigns and they appreciate the best that money can buy.
What did I just read?!
You really need to tone down the rhetoric, smacking someone in the head with what could be considered a weapon is not how civilized people deal with problems.
Battery life and weight on the Air is already terrific, and performance has been improving. Why harm performance by going to ARM, around the same timeframe as MB Airs NEED more performance due to going retina (whenever that happens)?
And your Intel software would no longer run. And workarounds would involve major work for developers, and fat binaries what waste expensive SSD space.
So it would mean MASSIVE fragmentation for developers, and massive headache for users. The kind of thing you only do if the benefit is HUGE, or if you HAVE to (like the PPC->Intel transition). And you do it for ALL the Macs in the lineup. ARM-based MacBook Pros, iMacs and Mac Pros? Makes no sense any time soon.
Apple already has an ARM-based portable that IS a good idea. They don't need to add one that isn't.
Arm right now can't meet intels chips, it is true. They do meet some levels and at this point run windows(May not be full form). No they could never take the Mac pros Xeon chips place, A device similar to MBA seperate to it may come (like retina Mac book pro) and slow into its spot threw time.
According to the article the A7 is hampered by the amount of RAM available to it... which, in turn is limited by the drain on the battery more RAM would add. That's my take-away..
Of course 64 bit allowed from the current 1 gb(2 on some android) to 4>, The current proccesor could make a Intel level at A8 but is avoided.
You really need to tone down the rhetoric, smacking someone in the head with what could be considered a weapon is not how civilized people deal with problems.
They are welcome to use their plastic coated devices to deflect the hit. We'll see which device survives.
And secondly, you should probably get a sense of humor, it's called a joke.
Don't get me wrong, I have a iPad Mini Retina and it is great improvement of my iPhone 5 and iPad 2. But I have to laugh when people compare ARM based cpus to Intel CPU's. Do you know the difference between ARM ( RISC ) and Intel ( CISC ) - Basically depending on instruction a single Intel instruction requires multiple ARM based instruction to do the same execution step. So it actually depends on what you trying to do and how well the compiler is written that makes the difference,
Yes ARM is good for low power situations - but I also have an Lenovo Miix 2 8 which has a very low power cpu - with 8 plus hours of batter that is similar processing to my 2010 MacBook AIR that I typing this one and both are significantly faster than my iPad Mini Retina in my opinion.
One big difference with both MacBook Air and Lenovo, they can also run Windows applications - MacBook AIR can also run existing OS X application. ARM based cpu are very far away from running desktop applications - Like Autocad 3d, Photoshop CS, Lightwave 3d., Solidworks and other high applications.
Now I read one of comments on MacPro using ARM based processor. Have any you ever research the difference between Xeon and non Xeon cpus - the level processing power is significantly different between the two architecture.. I have 8 year old dual Xeon 5160 machine that until Intel came out with with i5 and i7 machines - it will run circles around any desktiop or notebook. It actually faster than my Surface Pro
Another factor that comes into play, if Apple was going to replace the Mac line, they would loose software compatibility with all software running on Mac OS X.
This is not to say one day, Apple could come up with MacBook Air like machine running a version of OS X. I would like to see Apple come up with tablet running a touch version of Mac OS X with Intel CPU. This would allow to run VMWare on such an device - as a developer of Windows Applications this one thing that would be nice - porting applications to OS X is currently out of question because of nature of software.
Overclocking would not help much. The A7 is not quite at par with even a Intel Core 2 Duo (and definitely nowhere near an i3). The ARM Cortex-A53 which Apple's A7 is based upon is not meant for desktop level performance. The ARM Cortex-A57 is supposed to be more comparable in which AMD is releasing a server chip (Opteron A1100) later this year based upon. Rumors are the Opteron A1100 will be priced around $100 which would be ridiculously inexpensive for a server chip. It would be interesting if Apple developed their own in-house chip based upon the Cortex-A57 for consumer-level Macs.
My work pc is an intel core 2 duo and runs several demanding program's at the same time: all of the MS office suite, web browser and several GIS systems. Are you suggesting this is not powerful enough for the average home user?
Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device. Hey, for the price of that Haswell processor, they could build a laptop with a 32-core (16 A8s) CPU, with money to spare!
I have a Lenovo Miix 2 8 which has a Z3740 which is same cpu power as 2010 MacBook Air that I am typing this on. The newer are significantly faster than old atoms - I should just for one installed Lightwave 3d on the device - I would say it would be many years before ARM ( even multi cpu ) machine could handle that kind of software.
The big difference in ARM and INTEL is RISC vs CISC. Yes the article states that A7 has same number instruction per cycle. But by definition of RISC - Reduce Instruction Set - it takes more instructions to compute the same as some of single instruction in CISC architexture. Haswell CPU have AVX 2.0 instruction which with some video software are known to increase video rendering software significantly.
[QUOTE]Another factor that comes into play, if Apple was going to replace the Mac line, they would loose software compatibility with all software running on Mac OS X.[/QUOTE]
Yep. And ARM is nowhere near powerful enough to provide an emulation layer for X86 at a reasonable performance at this time either.
Keep in mind the main reason why Intel went to these cpus - it make the technology go mobile.
Also as we know - the more multitasking a cpu does the more it used power, this is why Apple limits in multitasking in iOS - otherwise it would hamper Battery life and performance of applications.
Intel is not sleeping now - they completely understand the threat of ARM cpus - and working their tales off.
Just for information, I am not Intel employee - but have professional work on Intel based applications for 20+ years including some low level operating system work. It totally amazing that Intel has the power of Core 2 Duo in a 8in tablet with Z3740 cpu in my Lenovo Miix 2 8
My work pc is an intel core 2 duo and runs several demanding program's at the same time: all of the MS office suite, web browser and several GIS systems. Are you suggesting this is not powerful enough for the average home user?
Is this meant to be a bizarre straw man argument? I never implied anything of the sort.
If Apple would to dump the A7 (or A8 if it's coming later this year) into a new device that had the battery capacity of the MBA, and then added more RAM to the mix, and maybe upped the GPU capacity and went retina (or 4K) with the display, Apple could come out with a new product with touch screen or touch pad, or mouse/keyboard control that could go places and do things no current device or computer has gone before.
I'm not bright enough to say what this might look like or do, but if matched with the right new software, it could define a new market as fresh as the iPad was...
You're right. It'll be the iPad Pro. Not Luke the MBA or iPad Air. It'll be different platform. Remember the patents of smart enclosure that has concealed led's for keyboard and other features? That all spells iPad pro. Not just a bigger screen.
The obvious to me is the appla tv for gaming. Basicly power supplied to the chipset is what's holding it back. A apple tv won't have those constrains. To bad android consoles fail it would have given apple a push to make apple tv a gaming console to.
Comments
Is that Apple's price or the half-price deal they had to give the "Ultrabook" manufacturers so they could compete with the MacBook Air?
Doesn't matter. If Intel is selling anything for $30-$40 (just to be clear, I don't believe that for a second), its capabilities are going to be enormously less than that Haswell processor. I'm sure an A8 (whatever it may turn out to be) could run rings around it, and cost <$20.
And before you said "why bother with an iOS/ARM device anyway?" I'm not proposing an iOS device. I'm sure Apple has desktop versions of Safari, iLife, and iWork running on ARM chips right now, and that's all a lot of people really need. Some people buy Chromebooks, don't they?
Microsoft tried the same thing with the Surface RT, but they didn't have real usable applications that could run on it. Apple, I'm willing to bet, does.
The minivan of computers. Loved by soccer* moms everywhere.
* Do other countries have a similar term?
Is that Apple's price or the half-price deal they had to give the "Ultrabook" manufacturers so they could compete with the MacBook Air?
Doesn't matter. If Intel is selling anything for $30-$40 (just to be clear, I don't believe that for a second), its capabilities are going to be enormously less than that Haswell processor. I'm sure an A8 (whatever it may turn out to be) could run rings around it, and cost <$20.
And before you said "why bother with an iOS/ARM device anyway?" I'm not proposing an iOS device. I'm sure Apple has desktop versions of Safari, iLife, and iWork running on ARM chips right now, and that's all a lot of people really need. Some people buy Chromebooks, don't they?
Microsoft tried the same thing with the Surface RT, but they didn't have real usable applications that could run on it. Apple, I'm willing to bet, does.
$315 is the price listed on ARK.
A $37 Z3770 (Silvermont) already outperforms Apple's A7, the Z3795 even more-so.
14nm Airmont is the replacement to 22nm Silvermont. Airmont is expected to offer 3x~4x the performance of Silvermont. Airmont is coming around the time an A8 would release, and Airmont's successor (14nm Goldmont) will be out before Apple's A9.
How can this be true?
Some morons on the internet like to say that iPhones and iPads are just toys.
The fact of the matter is that these morons have always been clueless. Apple is so far ahead of the game. iOS devices are being used more and more as desktop replacements all of the time. Sure, they do make wonderful toys, if that's somebody's intention, but iOS devices are also increasingly being used to replace various tasks traditionally done on desktops and laptops. For some people, an iOS device is all they'll ever need.
And now we find out that the A7 chip is closer to a desktop CPU than a regular mobile chip? Well, I for one am not surprised at all.
Best mobile OS? iOS by far. It's far more efficient than anything else, it's more powerful and has the best design and most apps.
Best mobile CPU? Apple's A series by far. I can't wait to pick up my next iPad, which will have an A8 chip inside of it. That thing is going to be sweet. If I meet an ignorant Fandroid and they start blabbering about meaningless specs, I'm going to have no choice but to smack them upside the head with my new iPad Air. I have no patience for rude and ignorant fools.
Best Apps, Appstore and eco system? Apple of course, duh. Anything of importance is made for iOS, often exclusively. And need I even mention the gigantic business of third party iOS accessories?
Best users? Apple users of course. Most are not ignorant when it comes to tech purchases, they aren't fooled by meaningless specs, they aren't fooled by pathetic, lying astroturf campaigns and they appreciate the best that money can buy.
Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device. Hey, for the price of that Haswell processor, they could build a laptop with a 32-core (16 A8s) CPU, with money to spare!
Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device.
No, Silvermont is nothing like any previous Atom processor. You don't need to "believe" Intel, products with Silvermont already exist.
How can this be true?
Some morons on the internet like to say that iPhones and iPads are just toys.
The fact of the matter is that these morons have always been clueless. Apple is so far ahead of the game. iOS devices are being used more and more as desktop replacements all of the time. Sure, they do make wonderful toys, if that's somebody's intention, but iOS devices are also increasingly being used to replace various tasks traditionally done on desktops and laptops. For some people, an iOS device is all they'll ever need.
And now we find out that the A7 chip is closer to a desktop CPU than a regular mobile chip? Well, I for one am not surprised at all.
Best mobile OS? iOS by far. It's far more efficient than anything else, it's more powerful and has the best design and most apps.
Best mobile CPU? Apple's A series by far. I can't wait to pick up my next iPad, which will have an A8 chip inside of it. That thing is going to be sweet. If I meet an ignorant Fandroid and they start blabbering about meaningless specs, I'm going to have no choice but to smack them upside the head with my new iPad Air. I have no patience for rude and ignorant fools.
Best Apps, Appstore and eco system? Apple of course, duh. Anything of importance is made for iOS, often exclusively. And need I even mention the gigantic business of third party iOS accessories?
Best users? Apple users of course. Most are not ignorant when it comes to tech purchases, they aren't fooled by meaningless specs, they aren't fooled by pathetic, lying astroturf campaigns and they appreciate the best that money can buy.
What did I just read?!
You really need to tone down the rhetoric, smacking someone in the head with what could be considered a weapon is not how civilized people deal with problems.
Arm right now can't meet intels chips, it is true. They do meet some levels and at this point run windows(May not be full form). No they could never take the Mac pros Xeon chips place, A device similar to MBA seperate to it may come (like retina Mac book pro) and slow into its spot threw time.
Of course 64 bit allowed from the current 1 gb(2 on some android) to 4>, The current proccesor could make a Intel level at A8 but is avoided.
What did I just read?!
You really need to tone down the rhetoric, smacking someone in the head with what could be considered a weapon is not how civilized people deal with problems.
They are welcome to use their plastic coated devices to deflect the hit. We'll see which device survives.
And secondly, you should probably get a sense of humor, it's called a joke.
futbol mamas
We haven't seen an update to the Mac Mini for awhile... nor have we seen an update to the Apple TV for awhile...
I wonder if Apple is developing an ARM based Mac Mini/ATV combo.
Time will tell.
Don't get me wrong, I have a iPad Mini Retina and it is great improvement of my iPhone 5 and iPad 2. But I have to laugh when people compare ARM based cpus to Intel CPU's. Do you know the difference between ARM ( RISC ) and Intel ( CISC ) - Basically depending on instruction a single Intel instruction requires multiple ARM based instruction to do the same execution step. So it actually depends on what you trying to do and how well the compiler is written that makes the difference,
Yes ARM is good for low power situations - but I also have an Lenovo Miix 2 8 which has a very low power cpu - with 8 plus hours of batter that is similar processing to my 2010 MacBook AIR that I typing this one and both are significantly faster than my iPad Mini Retina in my opinion.
One big difference with both MacBook Air and Lenovo, they can also run Windows applications - MacBook AIR can also run existing OS X application. ARM based cpu are very far away from running desktop applications - Like Autocad 3d, Photoshop CS, Lightwave 3d., Solidworks and other high applications.
Now I read one of comments on MacPro using ARM based processor. Have any you ever research the difference between Xeon and non Xeon cpus - the level processing power is significantly different between the two architecture.. I have 8 year old dual Xeon 5160 machine that until Intel came out with with i5 and i7 machines - it will run circles around any desktiop or notebook. It actually faster than my Surface Pro
Another factor that comes into play, if Apple was going to replace the Mac line, they would loose software compatibility with all software running on Mac OS X.
This is not to say one day, Apple could come up with MacBook Air like machine running a version of OS X. I would like to see Apple come up with tablet running a touch version of Mac OS X with Intel CPU. This would allow to run VMWare on such an device - as a developer of Windows Applications this one thing that would be nice - porting applications to OS X is currently out of question because of nature of software.
My work pc is an intel core 2 duo and runs several demanding program's at the same time: all of the MS office suite, web browser and several GIS systems. Are you suggesting this is not powerful enough for the average home user?
Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device. Hey, for the price of that Haswell processor, they could build a laptop with a 32-core (16 A8s) CPU, with money to spare!
I have a Lenovo Miix 2 8 which has a Z3740 which is same cpu power as 2010 MacBook Air that I am typing this on. The newer are significantly faster than old atoms - I should just for one installed Lightwave 3d on the device - I would say it would be many years before ARM ( even multi cpu ) machine could handle that kind of software.
The big difference in ARM and INTEL is RISC vs CISC. Yes the article states that A7 has same number instruction per cycle. But by definition of RISC - Reduce Instruction Set - it takes more instructions to compute the same as some of single instruction in CISC architexture. Haswell CPU have AVX 2.0 instruction which with some video software are known to increase video rendering software significantly.
Yep. And ARM is nowhere near powerful enough to provide an emulation layer for X86 at a reasonable performance at this time either.
Keep in mind the main reason why Intel went to these cpus - it make the technology go mobile.
Also as we know - the more multitasking a cpu does the more it used power, this is why Apple limits in multitasking in iOS - otherwise it would hamper Battery life and performance of applications.
Intel is not sleeping now - they completely understand the threat of ARM cpus - and working their tales off.
Just for information, I am not Intel employee - but have professional work on Intel based applications for 20+ years including some low level operating system work. It totally amazing that Intel has the power of Core 2 Duo in a 8in tablet with Z3740 cpu in my Lenovo Miix 2 8
My work pc is an intel core 2 duo and runs several demanding program's at the same time: all of the MS office suite, web browser and several GIS systems. Are you suggesting this is not powerful enough for the average home user?
Is this meant to be a bizarre straw man argument? I never implied anything of the sort.
You're right. It'll be the iPad Pro. Not Luke the MBA or iPad Air. It'll be different platform. Remember the patents of smart enclosure that has concealed led's for keyboard and other features? That all spells iPad pro. Not just a bigger screen.