JP Morgan sees us riding robot dinosaurs to work, too. It all makes sense if you're as smart as they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
I'd buy a 12-13" ARM based rMBA. For extreme horsepower needs I'll use my rMBP 15". Don't need to lower price of the MBA to get my attention. Happy to trade x86 for ARM and Retina at the current price and battery levels.
What apps would you run on it? If iPad apps, then choose your favorite iPad keyboard and go! If OS X apps... you'll need a tidal wave of Mac developers saying they're willing to not merely make another CPU transition (remember how long PPC->Intel took?) but support TWO architectures indefinitely! (On top of ARM iOS if they already have those apps as well.) All that just for this "in-between" unloved hybrid option that few will choose. Not happening any time in the foreseeable future. iOS will keep gaining pro power, but ARM Macs? No.
I'll stick with a nice Intel retina MBA! And sometimes an iPad keyboard cover.
Which air model do you have? I didnt know they had one like that?! And having a stardard keyboard is like defining the use of it. Having different kinds of keyboards is a really BAD thing from UI perpectives. Why do you think apple only has one model of keyboard layouts (well 99% the same atleast) for the last 15 years. Why does VNC use suck on an ipad? bacause of the UIs and keyboard layouts. If you could nail that resolution to native resolution on an ipad I could have used the ipad for some work on my macs but it REALLY sucks now. I never use it now bacause of the lack of finess. I even sold my ipad and bought an 11" air instead. If apple doesnt bring it out someone else will deliver on this. Well microsofts RDC works like it should but to buy +100$ of software to power a RDC server on the mac really pisses off.
Nice for those ipad users that use windows computers
You can't manage bulk storage with an iPad, format drives, connect to USB peripherals, run all the productive software of OS X like Adobe Illustrator or XCode. These don't need huge amounts of performance and until an iPad can do that, a laptop will still be preferred.
That doesn't seem so bad. Using terms like Hitler and Nazi are stilly and I can see how that could affect you in Hollywood as a whole, but if I were Micheal Bay I personally wouldn't take offense to it. In fact, I now have more respect for Bay because Fox stated how much of being so driven in his work. I certainly don't see that side of him with his movies, although I did think Pain & Gain was hilarious for being based on a true story.
I'm a die hard Mac user and former professional since the 90s. I have got an iPhone, iPad and a MBA.
I don't think most of you are getting it and are reacting emotionally as you guys all love your Macs and the Mac is what you fought for for many years.
Yes the Mac is gaining over the PC but not to the unbelievable pace iOS is.
The point in question here my friends - and please don't burn me at the stake - is that Apple created an entire new platform that, contrary to Mac OS, has the chance at becoming the platform of choice as the people love it with a passion. We are not talking of Mac aficionados or geeks, we are talking regular folks. They just love the iOS platform.
There is a paradigm shift going on here, put simply - the world is transitioning to full on mobile, handheld.
You guys don't see that MacBooks are the compromise, not iPads.
You guys don't see that the PC/Mac paradigm is dead, it's a cancer patient with a deadline.
You guys don't see that the Mac platform is hardly pushing anyone to buy iOS devices, that it's the other way around.
It's a matter of time! And the software developers like Adobe and Microsoft already realized this - and they KNOW this is coming for a fact - so even today Lightroom and a few weeks back the entire Office suite are being presented as iOS Apps as independent as possible from PC. And they'll be full on self-sufficient soon.
The Mac/PC platform is living tied to a respiratory machine, it's in a coma guys, no matter how much you're attached to it. Sure there'll be Prosumers and Professionals still needing Macs for a transitional period and Apple built the Mac Pro for that.
No, what's coming up as a huge news very soon is Apple once again canibalizing itself because the iOS platform is growing between 10-100 times more than the Mac OS, because it has virtually limitless growth ahead.
iOS is the chance for Apple to becoming the dominant player, it is obvious in iPad dominance. Bluetooth keyboards work wonderfully with the iPad, add a touchpad to it and you've got a full fledged computer if you add a few bits to the iOS that make it a bit more powerful like the possibility of adding Wi-Fi external HD from within iOS. There are already solutions for it but they suck since they're hardly integrated into the OS.
This is the operating system that will be powering your car, opening your garage door, operating your wall screen TV set, your fridge, a multitude of home automation gadgets. You can be in the crapper with this computer and work with it still. I mean, I have slept with the iPhone on airplane mode as it monitors my sleep and wakes me up on the best possible moment to make for my best possible day! I don't sleep with Macs, I don't take the Mac to the crapper. I only use the Mac rarely now as most functions are covered by the iPhone and the iPad.
Guys it's a matter of time and Apple is famous for canibalizing itself not waiting for others to do it. Frankly I bought the MacBook Air cos I had to simply because the ecosystem is still much centered in the Mac and I got tons of movies and music I cannot put inside the iPad.
Why else do you think Apple spent so much R&D with desktop class A7 on the iPhone?
Look at the huge adoption rate of the AppStore versus the negligible adoption rate of the Mac AppStore!
Don't you see that the biggest software publishing houses would jump on the iOS bandwagon with excitment if it turned from a Mac peripheral to a full blown independent platform?
Don't you see that the iOS is Jobs' vision and dream come true of stopping being the better niche market company and finally becoming the dominant player?!
The smartphone market is really a distraction that Apple is letting Samsung play in and this is the reason why it's majorly investing in the lawsuits - so that as a magician it makes people not put their full attention on the next big thing which is the Apple iOS world.
With Mac OS you buy one machine that lasts 10 years. With iOS you buy all kinds of gadgets that all complement themselves effortlessly and elegantly and you buy them every couple of years.
The next step is making big time software houses transition their heavy weight Apps to iOS by giving them a platform that can perform well and do what the client wants with fun.
The Mac OS is a bunch of functionalities put together that still require a lot of struggle. iOS is an easy peasy thing. A beautifully achieved NEW APPLE PLATFORM that Apple knows is its future and its chance at dominating the market place while profiting from an almost infinite market potential.
People buy an iPhone and then they buy an iPad while trying to avoid going to obsolete grandpa Mac OS platform. The MacBook market is growing because if that but look at the iPad market and its potential.
It's the entire PC industry that's dying, folks, but not because of the iPad - the iPad was just brilliant Jobsy vision of the incoming future and he got there first in such a way that others are still scratching their heads - but it was inevitable!!!
It's obvious where this is going and trying to cling on to a dying platform for emotional attachment reasons is not the Apple way. It will kill its own products if it takes it to become the de facto number one computational platform supplier.
This is a multi-decade vision playing before your eyes. Jobs saw it and he set the plan that will in 30 years time still be valid.
Stop crying over the Mac OS, it's in comatose in an elder nursery home. Forget about it entirely! It's a platform trying to be what the iOS touch platform already is.
It is just a matter of time til the iOS platform becomes the powerhouse with which you'll do anything, Jobs has invested in the A# line of SoC chips buying more and more into that field that they may even shove Intel aside entirely for that purpose. Otherwise, why would *conservative* Apple invest so much and put too much power computing in the iPhone in their line of chips if not for what's coming up?!
And guys, Apple is the revolutionary, they won't wait - not this time - for others to try do it first, not this time as it would mean their chance at harming Apple from being the dominating platform. I mean, MS tried before with their tablets it but they didn't have 800 million enthusiastic highly invested users behind their effort, they had half a dozen geeks, not the regular folk.
Apple will announce it soon and put the entire industry in a tidal wave of ecstatic excitement making AAPL go through the roof when people realize what it really means.
It's not getting a dying PC platform another chance with a new life support machine. No.
It's the iOS coming of age, ceasing to be a fun however limited gadget people adore and becoming the de facto computing platform.
Look at Facebook, Adobe, astounding Microsoft move with Office. They know it's coming and most probably in June. Microsoft knows that Office on iOS after such iOS deluge announcement will be its survival air breathing pipe. They'll say "we are here from the start riding this tidal wave the same way we were with Apple with 150 million back in the day (we are not such bad dudes and Bill/monkey are gone, please love us Apple lovers)".
And Tim Cook will have had his day with a vengeance from all the crap they say of him.
This is also why Apple is quietly but firmly investing big time in Cloud server farms while they know they can subcontract to respond to explosive demand.
Compare the two platforms and their potential and it's really a no brainer.
Jobs was an unconditional visionary and creators KNOW they need to destroy in order to create. Look at Germany and Japan, almost totally destroyed and because of it where they are today, comparing to those that escaped harmlessly to war time destruction and where they are today. Think of Shiva, you know Jobs were in India studying spirituality, he knew.
Look at the PowerPC-Intel transition where Apple destroyed its former platform and with it gained such badly needed life force and momentum!
And the beauty of it all is that they don't need to kill the Intel based OS X platform at all, not even divesting from it, they just need to unleash the iOS platform's full potential, that's it. They'll probably have two Apple companies internally if they haven't got them already.
Guys, this is not about MacBook versus iPad + keyboard form function.
Key word is Platform.
And it is evident that with the numbers everyone sees, the Core of the platform is changing from Intel to Ax SoC, from PC to handheld and wearables and ubiquitous.
This is not even guess work, it's in your face given Apple's investment in chip making. And knowing this, rumor has it they may integrate baseband processing into their SoC making for an always on anywhere paradigm. Yes, even in the crapper ;-)
This Jobs knew 10 years ago and he built it quietly and deeply, structuredly.
Steer your boat to where the future is, it's really not about creating, it's about envisioning. Jobs did NOT create the smartphone, he implemented a vision, a vision of what the future would unfold. He just helped the future come to the present. And this vision is easy to see and it's still got 30 years ahead of successful implementations.
That's why Cook and people haven't been too worried about the bad media SameThing bought off and the attacks on AAPL, they are building it and people will come. They are coming!
Think of China and all those 100s of millions buying the iPhone first and then the iPad Pro. Think about it for a minute. 10-30x the number of machines with a solid future ahead, not a dealine.
The Apple versus SameSing trial was badly needed to inform the masses that SS is not the real deal but a cheap substitute that doesn't give people the full experience they can have, that they are copiers and not the creators. This conveys the message that "you'll want to be with the creators that others try to copy" for what the ecosystem can give you that others cannot. And the iPad Pro will be the nail in the wall to hang that painting.
The iPad Pro and the coming of a more powerful iOS is a matter of time. And I believe, given MS Office move etc, that the time is now. June is the time. A tidal wave will start, ALL Mac OS X and Windows developers jumping on board porting their Apps to iOS as it will not be a gadget OS any more!
Full-featured iOS?! That's called OS X. iOS is only useful on a low-powered device with a touch-screen... no one wants the silly restrictions (like NO MOUSE support!) on a netbook. How about a stripped down OS X on a $400-$600 netbook from Apple rather than a beefed up iOS?
In any case I agree Apple needs a more affordable netbook, considering $1000 for the Macbook Air is way too expensive for some people / use-cases, and it's faster than some people need. A netbook could be slower than the MBA if necessary to reduce cost; but the most important points would be low price and fully featured (the latter of which iOS is NOT).
Converging a desktop OS with a touch screen OS is a Bad Idea; just ask WIndows 8. Different hardware, different use-cases, different requirements.
It could run on ARM but none of the iOS software is designed to be used with a mouse. It works ok with a mouse as the iOS simulator demonstrates but if they can get a cheap enough Intel chip, the ARM chip doesn't offer much advantage.
The only reasons to go with ARM are if they offer significantly better performance per dollar or performance per watt. This has been the case in the past but as time goes on, Intel's low power CPUs are becoming really good options and it saves the compatibility headache with software already design for a mouse.
Maybe not those examples but the point is that people looking for a basic notebook can't always switch to an iPad. The fact that 100 million people are buying cheap laptops shows that. It's not that they are choosing between a laptop or a tablet either, they often have both but Apple's missing out on the laptop sale because they are too expensive.
You guys don't see that MacBooks are the compromise, not iPads.
You guys don't see that the PC/Mac paradigm is dead, it's a cancer patient with a deadline.
You guys don't see that the Mac platform is hardly pushing anyone to buy iOS devices, that it's the other way around.
You can't develop software for iOS using iOS. This is partly down to Apple's restriction of not allowing dynamic code to run except for their Javascript engine. Until this changes, iOS can never replace OS X.
Software needs to run dynamic code, especially higher end software. It needs to be able to generate executables and launch subprocesses.
Apple has stated they see both systems in their future as they serve different purposes. They said they didn't plan to merge them. I like the idea of being able to use touch with OS X but their preference here is via things like the trackpad and if it's expanded then it opens a lot of possibilities.
It seems clear that a lot of people who have bought PCs in the past have done so because there wasn't a more appropriate device for them so I reckon that a significant portion of the 300m+ PC buyers there still are every year will move to post-pc devices. I don't ever see that market going away until post-pc devices lift the restrictions. That goes for hardware too. There's no way a photographer will be able to use an iPad exclusively with 1GB RAM.
I'm a die hard Mac user and former professional since the 90s. I have got an iPhone, iPad and a MBA.
I don't think most of you are getting it and are reacting emotionally as you guys all love your Macs and the Mac is what you fought for for many years.
Yes the Mac is gaining over the PC but not to the unbelievable pace iOS is.
The point in question here my friends - and please don't burn me at the stake - is that Apple created an entire new platform that, contrary to Mac OS, has the chance at becoming the platform of choice as the people love it with a passion. We are not talking of Mac aficionados or geeks, we are talking regular folks. They just love the iOS platform.
There is a paradigm shift going on here, put simply - the world is transitioning to full on mobile, handheld.
You guys don't see that MacBooks are the compromise, not iPads.
You guys don't see that the PC/Mac paradigm is dead, it's a cancer patient with a deadline.
You guys don't see that the Mac platform is hardly pushing anyone to buy iOS devices, that it's the other way around.
Think about your last statement -- why are iOS platform users buying OSX devices? Could be that they want/need more capability than they can get from their current iOS platform/devices?
It's a matter of time! And the software developers like Adobe and Microsoft already realized this - and they KNOW this is coming for a fact - so even today Lightroom and a few weeks back the entire Office suite are being presented as iOS Apps as independent as possible from PC. And they'll be full on self-sufficient soon.
The Mac/PC platform is living tied to a respiratory machine, it's in a coma guys, no matter how much you're attached to it. Sure there'll be Prosumers and Professionals still needing Macs for a transitional period and Apple built the Mac Pro for that.
No, what's coming up as a huge news very soon is Apple once again canibalizing itself because the iOS platform is growing between 10-100 times more than the Mac OS, because it has virtually limitless growth ahead.
iOS is the chance for Apple to becoming the dominant player, it is obvious in iPad dominance. Bluetooth keyboards work wonderfully with the iPad, add a touchpad to it and you've got a full fledged computer if you add a few bits to the iOS that make it a bit more powerful like the possibility of adding Wi-Fi external HD from within iOS. There are already solutions for it but they suck since they're hardly integrated into the OS.
This is the operating system that will be powering your car, opening your garage door, operating your wall screen TV set, your fridge, a multitude of home automation gadgets. You can be in the crapper with this computer and work with it still. I mean, I have slept with the iPhone on airplane mode as it monitors my sleep and wakes me up on the best possible moment to make for my best possible day! I don't sleep with Macs, I don't take the Mac to the crapper. I only use the Mac rarely now as most functions are covered by the iPhone and the iPad.
Guys it's a matter of time and Apple is famous for canibalizing itself not waiting for others to do it. Frankly I bought the MacBook Air cos I had to simply because the ecosystem is still much centered in the Mac and I got tons of movies and music I cannot put inside the iPad.
Why else do you think Apple spent so much R&D with desktop class A7 on the iPhone?
Look at the huge adoption rate of the AppStore versus the negligible adoption rate of the Mac AppStore!
Don't you see that the biggest software publishing houses would jump on the iOS bandwagon with excitment if it turned from a Mac peripheral to a full blown independent platform?
Don't you see that the iOS is Jobs' vision and dream come true of stopping being the better niche market company and finally becoming the dominant player?!
The smartphone market is really a distraction that Apple is letting Samsung play in and this is the reason why it's majorly investing in the lawsuits - so that as a magician it makes people not put their full attention on the next big thing which is the Apple iOS world.
With Mac OS you buy one machine that lasts 10 years. With iOS you buy all kinds of gadgets that all complement themselves effortlessly and elegantly and you buy them every couple of years.
The next step is making big time software houses transition their heavy weight Apps to iOS by giving them a platform that can perform well and do what the client wants with fun.
The Mac OS is a bunch of functionalities put together that still require a lot of struggle. iOS is an easy peasy thing. A beautifully achieved NEW APPLE PLATFORM that Apple knows is its future and its chance at dominating the market place while profiting from an almost infinite market potential.
You do realize that Mac OSX and iDevice OSX (iOS) are 80%-90% the same under the hood. Basically, iOS removes unneeded components, substitutes a touch UI, adds stronger sandboxing and hides complexity from the user. Mac OSX could easily be presented to the user in a similar fashion to iOS.
People buy an iPhone and then they buy an iPad while trying to avoid going to obsolete grandpa Mac OS platform. The MacBook market is growing because if that but look at the iPad market and its potential.
It's the entire PC industry that's dying, folks, but not because of the iPad - the iPad was just brilliant Jobsy vision of the incoming future and he got there first in such a way that others are still scratching their heads - but it was inevitable!!!
It's obvious where this is going and trying to cling on to a dying platform for emotional attachment reasons is not the Apple way. It will kill its own products if it takes it to become the de facto number one computational platform supplier.
I agree, that at some point, the iDevice and iOS (OSX) will be the platform for all but the most specialty users. But we are not there yet! I can see the laptop under discussion as a transitional product (hardware, OS, Aps) that will provide developers and users an orderly migration to a brave new world.
In the past, Apple used Rosetta to facilitate migration. Today, Apple has a much more powerful toolset: Xcode and a common OSX in its various flavors (Mac Desktop, Mac Mobile, iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPod,AppleTV, and wearables).
This is a multi-decade vision playing before your eyes. Jobs saw it and he set the plan that will in 30 years time still be valid.
Stop crying over the Mac OS, it's in comatose in an elder nursery home. Forget about it entirely! It's a platform trying to be what the iOS touch platform already is.
It is just a matter of time til the iOS platform becomes the powerhouse with which you'll do anything, Jobs has invested in the A# line of SoC chips buying more and more into that field that they may even shove Intel aside entirely for that purpose. Otherwise, why would *conservative* Apple invest so much and put too much power computing in the iPhone in their line of chips if not for what's coming up?!
And guys, Apple is the revolutionary, they won't wait - not this time - for others to try do it first, not this time as it would mean their chance at harming Apple from being the dominating platform. I mean, MS tried before with their tablets it but they didn't have 800 million enthusiastic highly invested users behind their effort, they had half a dozen geeks, not the regular folk.
Apple will announce it soon and put the entire industry in a tidal wave of ecstatic excitement making AAPL go through the roof when people realize what it really means.
It's not getting a dying PC platform another chance with a new life support machine. No.
It's the iOS coming of age, ceasing to be a fun however limited gadget people adore and becoming the de facto computing platform.
Look at Facebook, Adobe, astounding Microsoft move with Office. They know it's coming and most probably in June. Microsoft knows that Office on iOS after such iOS deluge announcement will be its survival air breathing pipe. They'll say "we are here from the start riding this tidal wave the same way we were with Apple with 150 million back in the day (we are not such bad dudes and Bill/monkey are gone, please love us Apple lovers)".
And Tim Cook will have had his day with a vengeance from all the crap they say of him.
This is also why Apple is quietly but firmly investing big time in Cloud server farms while they know they can subcontract to respond to explosive demand.
Compare the two platforms and their potential and it's really a no brainer.
Except, as far as the OS is concerned -- it really is a single platform. The new/reworked development for iOS has been ported back to OSX ...
Apple is a lot of things, but they aren't technically stupid!
Jobs was an unconditional visionary and creators KNOW they need to destroy in order to create. Look at Germany and Japan, almost totally destroyed and because of it where they are today, comparing to those that escaped harmlessly to war time destruction and where they are today. Think of Shiva, you know Jobs were in India studying spirituality, he knew.
Look at the PowerPC-Intel transition where Apple destroyed its former platform and with it gained such badly needed life force and momentum!
And the beauty of it all is that they don't need to kill the Intel based OS X platform at all, not even divesting from it, they just need to unleash the iOS platform's full potential, that's it. They'll probably have two Apple companies internally if they haven't got them already.
Guys, this is not about MacBook versus iPad + keyboard form function.
Key word is Platform.
And it is evident that with the numbers everyone sees, the Core of the platform is changing from Intel to Ax SoC, from PC to handheld and wearables and ubiquitous.
And we are at the point where the Ax hardware is robust enough to run Mac OSX -- no need for an Intel chip to run native Mac OSX and iOS software.
This is not even guess work, it's in your face given Apple's investment in chip making. And knowing this, rumor has it they may integrate baseband processing into their SoC making for an always on anywhere paradigm. Yes, even in the crapper ;-)
This Jobs knew 10 years ago and he built it quietly and deeply, structuredly.
Steer your boat to where the future is, it's really not about creating, it's about envisioning. Jobs did NOT create the smartphone, he implemented a vision, a vision of what the future would unfold. He just helped the future come to the present. And this vision is easy to see and it's still got 30 years ahead of successful implementations.
That's why Cook and people haven't been too worried about the bad media SameThing bought off and the attacks on AAPL, they are building it and people will come. They are coming!
Think of China and all those 100s of millions buying the iPhone first and then the iPad Pro. Think about it for a minute. 10-30x the number of machines with a solid future ahead, not a dealine.
The Apple versus SameSing trial was badly needed to inform the masses that SS is not the real deal but a cheap substitute that doesn't give people the full experience they can have, that they are copiers and not the creators. This conveys the message that "you'll want to be with the creators that others try to copy" for what the ecosystem can give you that others cannot. And the iPad Pro will be the nail in the wall to hang that painting.
The iPad Pro and the coming of a more powerful iOS is a matter of time. And I believe, given MS Office move etc, that the time is now. June is the time. A tidal wave will start, ALL Mac OS X and Windows developers jumping on board porting their Apps to iOS as it will not be a gadget OS any more!
Maybe not those examples but the point is that people looking for a basic notebook can't always switch to an iPad. The fact that 100 million people are buying cheap laptops shows that. It's not that they are choosing between a laptop or a tablet either, they often have both but Apple's missing out on the laptop sale because they are too expensive.
100 million users? Damn, how much profit are those guys making? Meanwhile Apple has 43% of the PC profits just by selling what they have.
100 million users? Damn, how much profit are those guys making? Meanwhile Apple has 43% of the PC profits just by selling what they have.
Apple's competitors don't have the same unique status so they have to hand over margins to retailers and rely on them to push the machines and they don't differentiate themselves enough from each other (only one manufacturer runs OS X). Apple making a more affordable laptop using a cheaper CPU simply hits a more accessible price point with no extra effort on their part and the same healthy margins they have now.
It might not increase their profits much but I don't see why having a $799 entry price for a laptop is such a bad thing.
Knowing Apple... it's one of the factors in their vision for the Mac App Store. Have everything running in sandboxes with key APIs which can be moved to ARM/iOS.
A 12" Retina Laptop thinner than a MacBook Air with iOS, Mac App Store & ridiculous battery life would not surprise me in the slightest!
100 million users? Damn, how much profit are those guys making? Meanwhile Apple has 43% of the PC profits just by selling what they have.
Apple's competitors don't have the same unique status so they have to hand over margins to retailers and rely on them to push the machines and they don't differentiate themselves enough from each other (only one manufacturer runs OS X). Apple making a more affordable laptop using a cheaper CPU simply hits a more accessible price point with no extra effort on their part and the same healthy margins they have now.
It might not increase their profits much but I don't see why having a $799 entry price for a laptop is such a bad thing.
I can't find a BOM breakdown of the current low-end MacBook Air -- especially the 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 chip
Intel says the recommended customer price is $315:
I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?
Knowing Apple... it's one of the factors in their vision for the Mac App Store. Have everything running in sandboxes with key APIs which can be moved to ARM/iOS.
A 12" Retina Laptop thinner than a MacBook Air with iOS, Mac App Store & ridiculous battery life would not surprise me in the slightest!
That's how envision it, too. They'd likely make it very easy for developers and for customers if it shows up on MAS it'll work on your machine.
My questions are: If they go this route…
… will they still allow app installations that are downloaded outside MAS? (I would hope so)
… will they still call it Mac OS X or create a new name to help differentiate it? (MS has shown that using Windows for everything can be harmful).
I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?
I wholeheartedly disagree. If it affects anything I'd think it would affect iPad sales, but people that want to buy a 15" MBP aren't going to be happy with a 12" iBook running on ARM. It would certainly lower the ARP of Macs as a result of selling a much cheaper Apple "PC" in higher volume, but their total unit sales, revenue, and profits would be much higher. Also, since they are saving a great deal on the CPU/GPU but still offering a performance level those customers would want it could end up having a high profit margin that could bring in more profit per unit than the base model 11" MBA at $999.
I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?
Apple has traditionally lowered prices (usually with a new model) and/or offered increased capability at the same price.
Periodically, this is necessary to remain competitive and avoid a price umbrella.
If Apple can make a quality, profitable [in Apple's terms] product at competitive costs -- more power to them.
If somebody is going to disrupt Apple's higher price points -- it better be Apple!
Knowing Apple... it's one of the factors in their vision for the Mac App Store. Have everything running in sandboxes with key APIs which can be moved to ARM/iOS.
A 12" Retina Laptop thinner than a MacBook Air with iOS, Mac App Store & ridiculous battery life would not surprise me in the slightest!
That's how envision it, too. They'd likely make it very easy for developers and for customers if it shows up on MAS it'll work on your machine.
My questions are: If they go this route…
… will they still allow app installations that are downloaded outside MAS? (I would hope so)
… will they still call it Mac OS X or create a new name to help differentiate it? (MS has shown that using Windows for everything can be harmful).
Interesting questions ...
I suspect they will allow app installs outside of MAS.
The OS name depends on whether Apple wants to differentiate or consolidate -- I suspect the latter, to appeal to developers and users.
I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?
I wholeheartedly disagree. If it affects anything I'd think it would affect iPad sales, but people that want to buy a 15" MBP aren't going to be happy with a 12" iBook running on ARM. It would certainly lower the ARP of Macs as a result of selling a much cheaper Apple "PC" in higher volume, but their total unit sales, revenue, and profits would be much higher. Also, since they are saving a great deal on the CPU/GPU but still offering a performance level those customers would want it could end up having a high profit margin that could bring in more profit per unit than the base model 11" MBA at $999.
Bingette
This could be one of the most savvy moves Apple has ever made -- NetBooks done right (the Apple way) -- superior hardware, superior OS, superior apps (OSX and iOS) -- all in an inexpensive and usable package!
Comments
JP Morgan sees us riding robot dinosaurs to work, too. It all makes sense if you're as smart as they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
I'd buy a 12-13" ARM based rMBA. For extreme horsepower needs I'll use my rMBP 15". Don't need to lower price of the MBA to get my attention. Happy to trade x86 for ARM and Retina at the current price and battery levels.
What apps would you run on it? If iPad apps, then choose your favorite iPad keyboard and go! If OS X apps... you'll need a tidal wave of Mac developers saying they're willing to not merely make another CPU transition (remember how long PPC->Intel took?) but support TWO architectures indefinitely! (On top of ARM iOS if they already have those apps as well.) All that just for this "in-between" unloved hybrid option that few will choose. Not happening any time in the foreseeable future. iOS will keep gaining pro power, but ARM Macs? No.
I'll stick with a nice Intel retina MBA! And sometimes an iPad keyboard cover.
Which air model do you have? I didnt know they had one like that?! And having a stardard keyboard is like defining the use of it. Having different kinds of keyboards is a really BAD thing from UI perpectives. Why do you think apple only has one model of keyboard layouts (well 99% the same atleast) for the last 15 years. Why does VNC use suck on an ipad? bacause of the UIs and keyboard layouts. If you could nail that resolution to native resolution on an ipad I could have used the ipad for some work on my macs but it REALLY sucks now. I never use it now bacause of the lack of finess. I even sold my ipad and bought an 11" air instead. If apple doesnt bring it out someone else will deliver on this. Well microsofts RDC works like it should but to buy +100$ of software to power a RDC server on the mac really pisses off.
Nice for those ipad users that use windows computers
They must have patched things up then. Money can do that.
http://gawker.com/5358318/team-michael-bays-megan-fox-diss-letter-censored
The avg consumer doesn't care about that.
That doesn't seem so bad. Using terms like Hitler and Nazi are stilly and I can see how that could affect you in Hollywood as a whole, but if I were Micheal Bay I personally wouldn't take offense to it. In fact, I now have more respect for Bay because Fox stated how much of being so driven in his work. I certainly don't see that side of him with his movies, although I did think Pain & Gain was hilarious for being based on a true story.
I'm a die hard Mac user and former professional since the 90s. I have got an iPhone, iPad and a MBA.
I don't think most of you are getting it and are reacting emotionally as you guys all love your Macs and the Mac is what you fought for for many years.
Yes the Mac is gaining over the PC but not to the unbelievable pace iOS is.
The point in question here my friends - and please don't burn me at the stake - is that Apple created an entire new platform that, contrary to Mac OS, has the chance at becoming the platform of choice as the people love it with a passion. We are not talking of Mac aficionados or geeks, we are talking regular folks. They just love the iOS platform.
There is a paradigm shift going on here, put simply - the world is transitioning to full on mobile, handheld.
You guys don't see that MacBooks are the compromise, not iPads.
You guys don't see that the PC/Mac paradigm is dead, it's a cancer patient with a deadline.
You guys don't see that the Mac platform is hardly pushing anyone to buy iOS devices, that it's the other way around.
It's a matter of time! And the software developers like Adobe and Microsoft already realized this - and they KNOW this is coming for a fact - so even today Lightroom and a few weeks back the entire Office suite are being presented as iOS Apps as independent as possible from PC. And they'll be full on self-sufficient soon.
The Mac/PC platform is living tied to a respiratory machine, it's in a coma guys, no matter how much you're attached to it. Sure there'll be Prosumers and Professionals still needing Macs for a transitional period and Apple built the Mac Pro for that.
No, what's coming up as a huge news very soon is Apple once again canibalizing itself because the iOS platform is growing between 10-100 times more than the Mac OS, because it has virtually limitless growth ahead.
iOS is the chance for Apple to becoming the dominant player, it is obvious in iPad dominance. Bluetooth keyboards work wonderfully with the iPad, add a touchpad to it and you've got a full fledged computer if you add a few bits to the iOS that make it a bit more powerful like the possibility of adding Wi-Fi external HD from within iOS. There are already solutions for it but they suck since they're hardly integrated into the OS.
This is the operating system that will be powering your car, opening your garage door, operating your wall screen TV set, your fridge, a multitude of home automation gadgets. You can be in the crapper with this computer and work with it still. I mean, I have slept with the iPhone on airplane mode as it monitors my sleep and wakes me up on the best possible moment to make for my best possible day! I don't sleep with Macs, I don't take the Mac to the crapper. I only use the Mac rarely now as most functions are covered by the iPhone and the iPad.
Guys it's a matter of time and Apple is famous for canibalizing itself not waiting for others to do it. Frankly I bought the MacBook Air cos I had to simply because the ecosystem is still much centered in the Mac and I got tons of movies and music I cannot put inside the iPad.
Why else do you think Apple spent so much R&D with desktop class A7 on the iPhone?
Look at the huge adoption rate of the AppStore versus the negligible adoption rate of the Mac AppStore!
Don't you see that the biggest software publishing houses would jump on the iOS bandwagon with excitment if it turned from a Mac peripheral to a full blown independent platform?
Don't you see that the iOS is Jobs' vision and dream come true of stopping being the better niche market company and finally becoming the dominant player?!
The smartphone market is really a distraction that Apple is letting Samsung play in and this is the reason why it's majorly investing in the lawsuits - so that as a magician it makes people not put their full attention on the next big thing which is the Apple iOS world.
With Mac OS you buy one machine that lasts 10 years. With iOS you buy all kinds of gadgets that all complement themselves effortlessly and elegantly and you buy them every couple of years.
The next step is making big time software houses transition their heavy weight Apps to iOS by giving them a platform that can perform well and do what the client wants with fun.
The Mac OS is a bunch of functionalities put together that still require a lot of struggle. iOS is an easy peasy thing. A beautifully achieved NEW APPLE PLATFORM that Apple knows is its future and its chance at dominating the market place while profiting from an almost infinite market potential.
People buy an iPhone and then they buy an iPad while trying to avoid going to obsolete grandpa Mac OS platform. The MacBook market is growing because if that but look at the iPad market and its potential.
It's the entire PC industry that's dying, folks, but not because of the iPad - the iPad was just brilliant Jobsy vision of the incoming future and he got there first in such a way that others are still scratching their heads - but it was inevitable!!!
It's obvious where this is going and trying to cling on to a dying platform for emotional attachment reasons is not the Apple way. It will kill its own products if it takes it to become the de facto number one computational platform supplier.
This is a multi-decade vision playing before your eyes. Jobs saw it and he set the plan that will in 30 years time still be valid.
Stop crying over the Mac OS, it's in comatose in an elder nursery home. Forget about it entirely! It's a platform trying to be what the iOS touch platform already is.
It is just a matter of time til the iOS platform becomes the powerhouse with which you'll do anything, Jobs has invested in the A# line of SoC chips buying more and more into that field that they may even shove Intel aside entirely for that purpose. Otherwise, why would *conservative* Apple invest so much and put too much power computing in the iPhone in their line of chips if not for what's coming up?!
And guys, Apple is the revolutionary, they won't wait - not this time - for others to try do it first, not this time as it would mean their chance at harming Apple from being the dominating platform. I mean, MS tried before with their tablets it but they didn't have 800 million enthusiastic highly invested users behind their effort, they had half a dozen geeks, not the regular folk.
Apple will announce it soon and put the entire industry in a tidal wave of ecstatic excitement making AAPL go through the roof when people realize what it really means.
It's not getting a dying PC platform another chance with a new life support machine. No.
It's the iOS coming of age, ceasing to be a fun however limited gadget people adore and becoming the de facto computing platform.
Look at Facebook, Adobe, astounding Microsoft move with Office. They know it's coming and most probably in June. Microsoft knows that Office on iOS after such iOS deluge announcement will be its survival air breathing pipe. They'll say "we are here from the start riding this tidal wave the same way we were with Apple with 150 million back in the day (we are not such bad dudes and Bill/monkey are gone, please love us Apple lovers)".
And Tim Cook will have had his day with a vengeance from all the crap they say of him.
This is also why Apple is quietly but firmly investing big time in Cloud server farms while they know they can subcontract to respond to explosive demand.
Compare the two platforms and their potential and it's really a no brainer.
Jobs was an unconditional visionary and creators KNOW they need to destroy in order to create. Look at Germany and Japan, almost totally destroyed and because of it where they are today, comparing to those that escaped harmlessly to war time destruction and where they are today. Think of Shiva, you know Jobs were in India studying spirituality, he knew.
Look at the PowerPC-Intel transition where Apple destroyed its former platform and with it gained such badly needed life force and momentum!
And the beauty of it all is that they don't need to kill the Intel based OS X platform at all, not even divesting from it, they just need to unleash the iOS platform's full potential, that's it. They'll probably have two Apple companies internally if they haven't got them already.
Guys, this is not about MacBook versus iPad + keyboard form function.
Key word is Platform.
And it is evident that with the numbers everyone sees, the Core of the platform is changing from Intel to Ax SoC, from PC to handheld and wearables and ubiquitous.
This is not even guess work, it's in your face given Apple's investment in chip making. And knowing this, rumor has it they may integrate baseband processing into their SoC making for an always on anywhere paradigm. Yes, even in the crapper ;-)
This Jobs knew 10 years ago and he built it quietly and deeply, structuredly.
Steer your boat to where the future is, it's really not about creating, it's about envisioning. Jobs did NOT create the smartphone, he implemented a vision, a vision of what the future would unfold. He just helped the future come to the present. And this vision is easy to see and it's still got 30 years ahead of successful implementations.
That's why Cook and people haven't been too worried about the bad media SameThing bought off and the attacks on AAPL, they are building it and people will come. They are coming!
Think of China and all those 100s of millions buying the iPhone first and then the iPad Pro. Think about it for a minute. 10-30x the number of machines with a solid future ahead, not a dealine.
The Apple versus SameSing trial was badly needed to inform the masses that SS is not the real deal but a cheap substitute that doesn't give people the full experience they can have, that they are copiers and not the creators. This conveys the message that "you'll want to be with the creators that others try to copy" for what the ecosystem can give you that others cannot. And the iPad Pro will be the nail in the wall to hang that painting.
The iPad Pro and the coming of a more powerful iOS is a matter of time. And I believe, given MS Office move etc, that the time is now. June is the time. A tidal wave will start, ALL Mac OS X and Windows developers jumping on board porting their Apps to iOS as it will not be a gadget OS any more!
I rest my case.
Written on an iPhone 5S 64!
In any case I agree Apple needs a more affordable netbook, considering $1000 for the Macbook Air is way too expensive for some people / use-cases, and it's faster than some people need. A netbook could be slower than the MBA if necessary to reduce cost; but the most important points would be low price and fully featured (the latter of which iOS is NOT).
Converging a desktop OS with a touch screen OS is a Bad Idea; just ask WIndows 8. Different hardware, different use-cases, different requirements.
It could run on ARM but none of the iOS software is designed to be used with a mouse. It works ok with a mouse as the iOS simulator demonstrates but if they can get a cheap enough Intel chip, the ARM chip doesn't offer much advantage.
The only reasons to go with ARM are if they offer significantly better performance per dollar or performance per watt. This has been the case in the past but as time goes on, Intel's low power CPUs are becoming really good options and it saves the compatibility headache with software already design for a mouse.
Maybe not those examples but the point is that people looking for a basic notebook can't always switch to an iPad. The fact that 100 million people are buying cheap laptops shows that. It's not that they are choosing between a laptop or a tablet either, they often have both but Apple's missing out on the laptop sale because they are too expensive.
You can't develop software for iOS using iOS. This is partly down to Apple's restriction of not allowing dynamic code to run except for their Javascript engine. Until this changes, iOS can never replace OS X.
Software needs to run dynamic code, especially higher end software. It needs to be able to generate executables and launch subprocesses.
Apple has stated they see both systems in their future as they serve different purposes. They said they didn't plan to merge them. I like the idea of being able to use touch with OS X but their preference here is via things like the trackpad and if it's expanded then it opens a lot of possibilities.
It seems clear that a lot of people who have bought PCs in the past have done so because there wasn't a more appropriate device for them so I reckon that a significant portion of the 300m+ PC buyers there still are every year will move to post-pc devices. I don't ever see that market going away until post-pc devices lift the restrictions. That goes for hardware too. There's no way a photographer will be able to use an iPad exclusively with 1GB RAM.
Think about your last statement -- why are iOS platform users buying OSX devices? Could be that they want/need more capability than they can get from their current iOS platform/devices?
You do realize that Mac OSX and iDevice OSX (iOS) are 80%-90% the same under the hood. Basically, iOS removes unneeded components, substitutes a touch UI, adds stronger sandboxing and hides complexity from the user. Mac OSX could easily be presented to the user in a similar fashion to iOS.
I agree, that at some point, the iDevice and iOS (OSX) will be the platform for all but the most specialty users. But we are not there yet! I can see the laptop under discussion as a transitional product (hardware, OS, Aps) that will provide developers and users an orderly migration to a brave new world.
In the past, Apple used Rosetta to facilitate migration. Today, Apple has a much more powerful toolset: Xcode and a common OSX in its various flavors (Mac Desktop, Mac Mobile, iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPod,AppleTV, and wearables).
Except, as far as the OS is concerned -- it really is a single platform. The new/reworked development for iOS has been ported back to OSX ...
Apple is a lot of things, but they aren't technically stupid!
And we are at the point where the Ax hardware is robust enough to run Mac OSX -- no need for an Intel chip to run native Mac OSX and iOS software.
100 million users? Damn, how much profit are those guys making? Meanwhile Apple has 43% of the PC profits just by selling what they have.
Apple's competitors don't have the same unique status so they have to hand over margins to retailers and rely on them to push the machines and they don't differentiate themselves enough from each other (only one manufacturer runs OS X). Apple making a more affordable laptop using a cheaper CPU simply hits a more accessible price point with no extra effort on their part and the same healthy margins they have now.
It might not increase their profits much but I don't see why having a $799 entry price for a laptop is such a bad thing.
Knowing Apple... it's one of the factors in their vision for the Mac App Store. Have everything running in sandboxes with key APIs which can be moved to ARM/iOS.
A 12" Retina Laptop thinner than a MacBook Air with iOS, Mac App Store & ridiculous battery life would not surprise me in the slightest!
I can't find a BOM breakdown of the current low-end MacBook Air -- especially the 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 chip
Intel says the recommended customer price is $315:
http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/
I suspect that Apple's cost is $150-$200 ???
The A7 in the iPad Air cost $18.
Let's assume that Apple could make an A8 for a cost of $35-$50.
All else equal, the BOM savings on a ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir would be $100-$150 less that the current BOM of $600 ???
If so, this would make a $700-$800 ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir a viable, profitable product.
Sounds doable to me.
That's how envision it, too. They'd likely make it very easy for developers and for customers if it shows up on MAS it'll work on your machine.
My questions are: If they go this route…
I wholeheartedly disagree. If it affects anything I'd think it would affect iPad sales, but people that want to buy a 15" MBP aren't going to be happy with a 12" iBook running on ARM. It would certainly lower the ARP of Macs as a result of selling a much cheaper Apple "PC" in higher volume, but their total unit sales, revenue, and profits would be much higher. Also, since they are saving a great deal on the CPU/GPU but still offering a performance level those customers would want it could end up having a high profit margin that could bring in more profit per unit than the base model 11" MBA at $999.
Apple has traditionally lowered prices (usually with a new model) and/or offered increased capability at the same price.
Periodically, this is necessary to remain competitive and avoid a price umbrella.
If Apple can make a quality, profitable [in Apple's terms] product at competitive costs -- more power to them.
If somebody is going to disrupt Apple's higher price points -- it better be Apple!
Interesting questions ...
I suspect they will allow app installs outside of MAS.
The OS name depends on whether Apple wants to differentiate or consolidate -- I suspect the latter, to appeal to developers and users.
Bingette
This could be one of the most savvy moves Apple has ever made -- NetBooks done right (the Apple way) -- superior hardware, superior OS, superior apps (OSX and iOS) -- all in an inexpensive and usable package!