Apple 'considered' buying mobile payment firm Square, but Google deal seen as more likely

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  • Reply 81 of 128
    moreckmoreck Posts: 187member
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    I'm not sure I like the sound of this. OS X is already a solid Unix system with a polished GUI. What needs to change?
    OSX features some really dated visual leftovers, like the menu bar font and those stoplight-esque window buttons. All the brushed metal needs an update as well.
  • Reply 82 of 128
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,131member

    Personally, I hope either A) no one buys Square or B) Apple buys Square, because if Google snags them up, I'm closing my account that same day! Sick and tired of Google putting their slimy paws on tech just to get at their user bases and data.

     

    Google, GO F YOURSELF!

  • Reply 83 of 128
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    I'd like to buy physical goods with my phone and my fingerprint, and maybe a password. In other words, just like how I buy digital goods.

    I just got some coffee beans at Starbucks doing exactly that.

  • Reply 84 of 128
    danoxdanox Posts: 386member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    What would really make me dance is to see Google buy Square for >$8 billion and then have Apple unveil a killer system of its own.


     

    That is probably closer to the truth, 8 billion dollars is more than what Apple has spent in 10 years of acquisitions. If Google wants them they can have them. Please....

  • Reply 85 of 128
    macslutmacslut Posts: 514member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    They've already implemented a working, elegant solution. It's easy to think a company like Apple could do the same but it all comes down to the staff they have to cover a particular area. Before they had MobileMe, it would be easy to suggest that they could do it themselves rather than buy the DropBox team but look how it turned out doing it in-house.



    Look at the features of Square's POS system, how long would it take Apple to build, test and deploy all that:



    https://squareup.com/features



    The supplementary hardware is all designed for iPad.



    They currently process $15b of transactions per year (excluding Starbucks for some reason):



    https://squareup.com/news/releases/2013/square-reinvents-the-register-with-square-stand



    "While Square usage continues to grow on smartphones, it is growing at a faster rate on iPads: iPad customers now represent nearly 50% of total payments processed by Square. The average payment volume processed by these customers is more than double the average volume processed by Square customers using smartphones."



    $8b is a lot to spend because they'd only make 2.5% of the transactions as gross profit, although they could make some on the hardware too but Tim Cook blew $12b in a share buyback in 2 weeks. This certainly seems like a better way to be spending their cash as it has some growth potential. US retail alone topped $100b:



    http://www.pwc.com/us/en/press-releases/2014/pwc-retail-consumer-ma-deal-press-release.jhtml



    That's a good recurring revenue stream as they make money even when customers buy other products.



    Touch id is just one part of the payment system and they can add support in themselves. Everywhere you see a Square stand, they'll support touch id payments.

     

    This comment is excellent!  I agree, Apple should buy Square right now.

     

    It's worth noting that Square had a $5 Billion valuation back in January when it received Series D funding from Citi and Starbucks.  That $15 Billion of processing excluding Starbucks is significant because Starbucks is now using Square throughout it's chains (also Whole Foods just made the switch).  Even excluding this, and assuming no growth moving forward (just to be as extreme as possible), if you apply the current Apple P/E ratio (which is ridiculously low right now), you'd get a valuation of just over $5 Billion.

     

    However, Square is growing like crazy.  Throw in Starbucks, Whole Foods, and other customers, and that number could go to $8 Billion by the end of the year.

     

    If Apple decides to go it alone, they'd then be competing with Square, as well as competing with likely entrants from Google and Microsoft (likely others as well...Amazon? eBay?).  It's worth noting that competing with Square wouldn't be as easy as it seems.  Square has some serious angel and venture investment.  As I mentioned, Starbucks invested in them, so they're likely to remain customers.

     

    Competing against Square means becoming the enemy of Square.  That's not too cool when their service depends on iOS devices or devices from your competitors.  Buying Square on the other hand could help sell additional iOS devices as the product ends up being directed by Apple.

     

    And while Apple could bring additional tech and integration into their iOS products for payment systems (Touch ID), this $8 Billion investment is a great way to start with an entrenched customer base.

  • Reply 86 of 128
    danoxdanox Posts: 386member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

     

    Or Apple just does it's own payment system, or buys a company that does something similar for a fraction of the cost.  Why buy a company at their highest point?  8 Billion is quite a bit.

     

    That said- it's way more valuable than WhatsApp.  Especially at 40% the price.  And def. twice as good as Nest.


     

    It's not, Apple should let Google waste more money.

  • Reply 87 of 128
    danoxdanox Posts: 386member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    They've already implemented a working, elegant solution. It's easy to think a company like Apple could do the same but it all comes down to the staff they have to cover a particular area. Before they had MobileMe, it would be easy to suggest that they could do it themselves rather than buy the DropBox team but look how it turned out doing it in-house.



    Look at the features of Square's POS system, how long would it take Apple to build, test and deploy all that:



    https://squareup.com/features



    The supplementary hardware is all designed for iPad.



    They currently process $15b of transactions per year (excluding Starbucks for some reason):



    https://squareup.com/news/releases/2013/square-reinvents-the-register-with-square-stand



    "While Square usage continues to grow on smartphones, it is growing at a faster rate on iPads: iPad customers now represent nearly 50% of total payments processed by Square. The average payment volume processed by these customers is more than double the average volume processed by Square customers using smartphones."



    $8b is a lot to spend because they'd only make 2.5% of the transactions as gross profit, although they could make some on the hardware too but Tim Cook blew $12b in a share buyback in 2 weeks. This certainly seems like a better way to be spending their cash as it has some growth potential. US retail alone topped $100b:



    http://www.pwc.com/us/en/press-releases/2014/pwc-retail-consumer-ma-deal-press-release.jhtml



    That's a good recurring revenue stream as they make money even when customers buy other products.



    Touch id is just one part of the payment system and they can add support in themselves. Everywhere you see a Square stand, they'll support touch id payments.

     

     

    Still a utter waste of money Apple doesn't need them, Apple isn't going to spend more money on one company than what they have spent in ten years of acquisitions  it's not going to happen.

  • Reply 88 of 128
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,697member
    ... and, to tell you the truth, my initial reaction to the sale of Square would be for Apple to buy it. Maybe Cook is too concerned about the purchase price, which is hard for me to believe because, from everything I have read, he is a long range planner.

    I guess that's the question to ask...   Why would Cook/Apple grow soft on the idea of buying Square?

    Does Apple already have a system nearing completion and Square doesn't fit in with that vision? That would be my first guess.

    Is Tim Cook just making a bad decision? Honestly, I've never felt comfortable with Cook as a long term planner/innovator.

    Is it the price? Is Cook tripping over dollars to pick up dimes (see what I did there)?

    I can't just look at Cook here. After all, Jobs was the same. Neither bought a large company. But I've been reading that instigated by Carl Icahn, Apple did make a bid for Nuance for about $8 billion. I don't remember if Google did too. But reporting on that said that Nuance adopted poison pill rules to thwart a bid, which I thought was illegal in the EU.

    But according to the article here, Apple was interested. So what happened?
  • Reply 89 of 128
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,697member
    danox wrote: »

    Still a utter waste of money Apple doesn't need them, Apple isn't going to spend more money on one company than what they have spent in ten years of acquisitions  it's not going to happen.

    Other than constantly stating that Apple shouldn't do so, you've given no real reason for them not to. I disagree totally. I think this is a mistake.
  • Reply 90 of 128
    dmarcootdmarcoot Posts: 191member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Timbit View Post



    If Apple wants a payment system, they should buy an already established one. I feel like Apple is trying to expand too far out. Instead, buy Square or something similar and just integrate it. Trying to build their own may not work out or take a while to gain traction

    Not for $8 Bil they shouldn't. Apple could build one for a less than a hundred million and outspend all the competitors combined on advertising for another $100 million.

  • Reply 91 of 128
    danoxdanox Posts: 386member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post





    Other than constantly stating that Apple shouldn't do so, you've given no real reason for them not to. I disagree totally. I think this is a mistake.

     

    What in the last 17 years of acquisitions by Apple, indicates that Apple will waste so much money? On a company whose tech Apple already has in house, there is nothing Square does that Apple can't do in house in 1 year, it's like HP buying Compaq or Apple buying Netflix a utter waste of resources.

  • Reply 92 of 128
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    I'm not sure I like the sound of this. OS X is already a solid Unix system with a polished GUI. What needs to change?

    More cowbell. OSX needs more Cowbell.
  • Reply 93 of 128
    macslut wrote: »
    And while Apple could bring additional tech and integration into their iOS products for payment systems (Touch ID), this $8 Billion investment is a great way to start with an entrenched customer base.

    If you mean the small businesses who use Square as an "entrenched customer base," I don't think they're worth $8B. Especially if they would switch in an instant if something better or less costly per transaction came along. It's not too unlikely that Apple has just that "something better" waiting in the wings and not costing $8B to roll out. Google may sense that about to happen, and that's why they aren't jumping on Square like they normally would. (Although it must drive Google nuts to not just overspend to ingest a highly visible company for which they have no use)
  • Reply 94 of 128
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    melgross wrote: »
    Not for me. Square is a very successful company. It exclusively uses iPads for cash registers. This is opening up a lot of areas for Apple. For Apple to have to do it all from scratch is mind boggling! And there's no need. Why give Google another advantage? This is almost petty cash for Apple. They shouldn't miss another opportunity.

    I still don't see what Apple would have to do from scratch? What does Square offer Apple? The CC reader that plugs into the 3.5mm stereo jack? Apple has plenty of experience with moving data over that with their iPod Shuffle. The knowledge of processing a card or dealing with accounts? Apple's iTS accounts surely exceed Square's by excessive numbers.

    Even if the purchase was for something that was completely out of Apple's range of expertise or depth they have yet to pay $8 billion for a company. I think NeXT, from 1997, is still their largest about $450 million.
  • Reply 95 of 128
    ericblrericblr Posts: 172member
    If Apple buys square, you can kiss android support goodbye. That would affect quite a bit of people.
  • Reply 96 of 128
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    melgross wrote: »
    … Apple did make a bid for Nuance for about $8 billion.

    Which is decades upon decades of IP that Apple doesn't have nor can recreate in any reasonable time frame.
  • Reply 97 of 128
    danoxdanox Posts: 386member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Which is decades upon decades of IP that Apple doesn't have nor can recreate in any reasonable time frame.

     

    What is Novauris Technologies?, Apple bought them early last year, they were outed recently as a acquisition. (certainly for less than 8 billion).

  • Reply 98 of 128
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    danox wrote: »
    What is Novauris Technologies?, Apple bought them early last year, they were outed recently as a acquisition. (certainly for less than 8 billion).

    Looking at the meager results from looking at their cache website it looks like it'll be used to improve Siri .
  • Reply 99 of 128
    Lol why vomit?
  • Reply 100 of 128
    ericblr wrote: »
    If Apple buys square, you can kiss android support goodbye. That would affect quite a bit of people.

    Muwah! Goodbye Android. :)
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