I think my high school and undergraduate math teachers taught wrong, especially regarding decimals. Can someone explain how 10.10 is a different version number than 10.1? I am really missing something.
I think my high school and undergraduate math teachers taught wrong, especially regarding decimals. Can someone explain how 10.10 is a different version number than 10.1? I am really missing something.
Just wait until 10.10.1 or 10.10.2 and your issue will be gone and your math teachers will still be right.
Just wait until 10.10.1 or 10.10.2 and your issue will be gone and your math teachers will still be right.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
I don't mind if OS X gets a flat look, the original Mac OS was flat. It's the transparency I don't like, they think it puts content first, but it just makes things hard to read and cluttered looking.
The following concept from last year has been posted in a few places:
The system font in OS X can be switched for either Helvetica Neue or Avenir. I'd hope for a 2D Dock again. The whole UI style can't translate over such as zooming in and out of icons because apps aren't all fullscreen but a lot of the same style can come over. I don't really like OS X's unevenly shaped app icons, the rounded rectangle icons are much more evenly spaced and cleaner looking. Dock icons get the same width anyway and it looks messy when icons with vastly different image widths are next to each other.
They already use the iOS 7 style transparency in the stacks panel. It blurs the content behind it. iOS 7 really took it from OS X.
"Greg Christie, a longtime Apple engineer who spearheaded the design of the iPhone’s slide-to-unlock feature, is apparently leaving Apple after repeated clashes with Apple senior vice president of design Jony Ive. 9to5Mac’s sources say that Christie’s departure as Apple’s human interface vice president means that Ive has now taken complete control over the design of iOS and that this represents a major shakeup to the iOS design team.
So what does this mean for the future of iOS design? Well, 9to5Mac’s sources say that Ive actually circumvented Christie during the iOS 7 design process, which means the changes that Apple made to its mobile operating system last year are definitely here to stay. 9to5Mac also says that this portends big changes for OS X, which “will be revamped with a flatter look that loses the textures that Christie utilized to make the iPhone the most popular gadget on the planet.”
So it looks like skeuomorphism is completely out at Apple and the flatness favored by Ive is in for the foreseeable future. It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming months."
Losing the slide to unlock was a large change. I quite liked the original slide to unlock and could have been made flatter but the new implementation has its benefits too.
In some ways, I think the whole desktop functionality needs a modern redesign, not just style. I wish there was a way to get rid of overlapping windows and menus without sacrificing the efficiency. Column view in the Finder is great but cluttered and wastes a lot of space. It would be nice to have a single window where columns are new views and everything just goes vertically but then there's the issue of having active contexts for commands and space for list views.
I don't think it can be done overnight. I suspect we'll see gradual changes with each iteration so that people become accustomed to any functional changes. One thing that would be nice is a control panel like in iOS to be able to play music without opening iTunes. It can read the iTunes library and playlists separately from iTunes and iTunes wouldn't need a minimized UI any more and the control panel would take over.
I wonder if the App Stores will converge too so that it's possible to buy an app for all 3 devices at once and sync them easily.
[quote name="wizard69" url="/t/178677/traffic-from-apples-unannounced-ios-8-os-x-10-10-remains-steady-ahead-of-wwdc-2014#post_[/quote] I couldn't agree more with everything you posted. Spot on.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
Numbers with 2 decimal points can be quite confusing.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
Since when are you allowed to delete trailing digits in a whole number? I'd think it was clear that a system that can use two or more periods (as well as letters) are not using them as decimal points like in math but as simple separators; so I honestly don't understand why people have such a hard time with using a period as separator the way it's commonly used with phone numbers (800.555.1212) or dates (2014.04.18) but can't wrap their head around for it a version number. It boggles my mind even more that no one ever removes the trailing zero from the first ten but they want to remove it from the second ten.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
OK I'll take the bait. They aren't decimals, the dots are place separators. Always have been, always will be. OS number <dot> major version number <dot> minor update number.
We have spent some time here drilling this very obvious truth into people. So let's not revive this again. Please.
Edit : {Oops I see I was beaten to the annoyed response by Soli.)
They might be doing a tick/tock method where one year they concentrate more on the sub-system and the next on the UI. That gives each a couple years to be ironed out before the next set of big changes.
There's absolutely no indication of apple doing any sort of tick/tock cycle in OS X whatsoever, besides you are clearly misapplying the term here.
What are you talking about here? Mavericks was a massive update and a great step forward for users. Beyond that what do you really expect from an operating system?
Apps are not the operating system. The operating system was enhanced significantly, spend sometime with the developer tools and actually develop an understanding of what has happened with Mac OS over the years.
For the most part the could is a joke and anti user. I don't see excessive could integration as being a big help for most users. ICloud especially gets far to many things wrong, as such I don't see it ever being a huge success unless Apple can significantly overhaul the facility to make it more useful. In a more general sense there might be a few could based features worth adding but Mac OS needs a different approach than what is seen in some of the iOS solutions. The perfect example here is Siri which could be useful on the Mac if the IA was actually running on the Mac so that traffic to the web is minimized. However such a Mac Siri would not be seen as a could services so much as a Mac service that can intelligently talk to the cloud.
I'm not saying it would not hurt but come on it isn't that confusing. I've never had trouble finding Safari, Mail, Contacts or anything else on both systems. I would expect some interface tweaking as honestly software is never done, however I don't expect a MS like abortion of an update.
I appreciate that you may be talking from a developer's perspective, but I don't share your denigration of iCloud. My experience of it for the past year has been excellent. It certainly had its share of bugs in the early days, but I find it very reliable now.
I appreciate that you may be talking from a developer's perspective, but I don't share your denigration of iCloud. My experience of it for the past year has been excellent. It certainly had its share of bugs in the early days, but I find it very reliable now.
I agree. I don't think [@]wizard69[/@] knows just how much Mac OS X and iOS use iCloud for syncing and storage these days. I think it's quite impressive yet I still wish it did more.
Yes a very significant update of what an OS is all about. The surprising thing to me is that they pulled all this off with little breakage.
Book marks and Keychain works well but I really have a significant hate for the way document sharing or handling works with iCloud. In fact considering Apples uniquely skilled engineers I have to wonder how they managed to screw up documents so much, especially on the iOS side of things.
In my mind it is completely broken. There is no file browser app, no common store for sharing data across apps, no standard file navigator for apps to call upon and I have no idea which files are significant storage users. It is in effect so incomplete that at times I just avoid using iOS apps. Hell I can't even save an MP3 file from Safari.
Exactly! It truly sucks the way iOS works with what are common file types. Some things really boggle the mind, like the inability to save a spreadsheet from Safari.
No it won't because that is about the only thing that works well in IOS and Mac OS. Beyond syncing though iOS is extremely frustrating to work with.
I'm the exact opposite to you. If I see that an app has iCloud, then that is a selling point. In fact, I often will choose an app over similar ones because it has iCloud.
I have a finance app that uses iCloud, and it works flawlessly and quickly. No problem with core data sync there.
You seem to have a fundamental problem with the way iOS works. I get the feeling that you want to force the pc traditional layout onto it. Let it go.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
You're quite correct; it's just a quirk of version numbering used in software. And I agree that it's silly and confusing.
I wonder whether 10.10 is definite, or whether there's a possibility it might be 11 or 13.
The system font in OS X can be switched for either Helvetica Neue or Avenir. I'd hope for a 2D Dock again. The whole UI style can't translate over such as zooming in and out of icons because apps aren't all fullscreen but a lot of the same style can come over. I don't really like OS X's unevenly shaped app icons, the rounded rectangle icons are much more evenly spaced and cleaner looking. Dock icons get the same width anyway and it looks messy when icons with vastly different image widths are next to each other.
They already use the iOS 7 style transparency in the stacks panel. It blurs the content behind it. iOS 7 really took it from OS X.
"Greg Christie, a longtime Apple engineer who spearheaded the design of the iPhone’s slide-to-unlock feature, is apparently leaving Apple after repeated clashes with Apple senior vice president of design Jony Ive. 9to5Mac’s sources say that Christie’s departure as Apple’s human interface vice president means that Ive has now taken complete control over the design of iOS and that this represents a major shakeup to the iOS design team.
So what does this mean for the future of iOS design? Well, 9to5Mac’s sources say that Ive actually circumvented Christie during the iOS 7 design process, which means the changes that Apple made to its mobile operating system last year are definitely here to stay. 9to5Mac also says that this portends big changes for OS X, which “will be revamped with a flatter look that loses the textures that Christie utilized to make the iPhone the most popular gadget on the planet.”
So it looks like skeuomorphism is completely out at Apple and the flatness favored by Ive is in for the foreseeable future. It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming months."
Losing the slide to unlock was a large change. I quite liked the original slide to unlock and could have been made flatter but the new implementation has its benefits too.
In some ways, I think the whole desktop functionality needs a modern redesign, not just style. I wish there was a way to get rid of overlapping windows and menus without sacrificing the efficiency. Column view in the Finder is great but cluttered and wastes a lot of space. It would be nice to have a single window where columns are new views and everything just goes vertically but then there's the issue of having active contexts for commands and space for list views.
I don't think it can be done overnight. I suspect we'll see gradual changes with each iteration so that people become accustomed to any functional changes. One thing that would be nice is a control panel like in iOS to be able to play music without opening iTunes. It can read the iTunes library and playlists separately from iTunes and iTunes wouldn't need a minimized UI any more and the control panel would take over.
I wonder if the App Stores will converge too so that it's possible to buy an app for all 3 devices at once and sync them easily.
Pretty good post. I share your views on overhauling the whole design. I would like to see things gliding much more. The use of the Dissolve transition in iPhoto could be transferred to many things with pleasing effect. Smoother transitions everywhere, like reading. When jumping pages in Safari, for instance, I would much prefer a gentle dissolve rather than a scroll.
Since when are you allowed to delete trailing digits in a whole number? I'd think it was clear that a system that can use two or more periods (as well as letters) are not using them as decimal points like in math but as simple separators; so I honestly don't understand why people have such a hard time with using a period as separator the way it's commonly used with phone numbers (800.555.1212) or dates (2014.04.18) but can't wrap their head around for it a version number. It boggles my mind even more that no one ever removes the trailing zero from the first ten but they want to remove it from the second ten.
I think both the examples you cite are unclear. Using full stops in phone numbers and dates is confusing. We don't use them in England.
And the thrust of digital guy's complaint is sound. In maths, 10.1 is the same as 10.10 or 10.1000000, so it's not intuitive to go from 10.9 to 10.10, as you would always round it to 10.1.
Edit: to use a more accurate maths example, to go from 10.09 to 10.1. Or 10.9 to 11. No need for 11.0!
I agree. I don't think [@]wizard69[/@] knows just how much Mac OS X and iOS use iCloud for syncing and storage these days. I think it's quite impressive yet I still wish it did more.
Looks as though they're finally bringing Preview to iOS. It's currently annoying that PDFs in iBooks don't sync via iCloud. Presumably, Preview will become the way to do it.
I think both the examples you cite are unclear. Using full stops in phone numbers and dates is confusing. We don't use them in England.
And the thrust of digital guy's complaint is sound. In maths, 10.1 is the same as 10.10 or 10.1000000, so it's not intuitive to go from 10.9 to 10.10, as you would always round it to 10.1.
1) How are they unclear? If you saw those would you not recognize the one as a US phone number and the other as a date?
2) It's not sound because this is not math. There are always an infinite number of .0's at the end as noted by 10.9.2 having a .2 after 10.9. If this was math it would be impossible as there is a single period (or comma, depending on your country/culture) used to separate whole from fractional integers. Again, if this was math you couldn't have multiple periods — unless you reverse the period and comma usage which would then mean they are thousands separators — or use letters as oft seen in version numbers.
3) Can you honestly not tell why Adobe Flash's current version of 13.0.0.201 is not a legal value used in math or why the letters b for Beta or f for Final or simpy any incremental letter can't be used for software versioning.
Comments
Just wait until 10.10.1 or 10.10.2 and your issue will be gone and your math teachers will still be right.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
The following concept from last year has been posted in a few places:
http://www.ajambrosino.com/os-x-11-concept/
That guy currently works at Bertrand Serlet's company Up There as a design intern.
The concept shown there is far too squared off, not enough roundness but it gives an idea of the possible style. Microsoft does everything squared.
This is how Microsoft does flat:
and this is how Apple does flat:
You can see the sharp edges in the Microsoft one are much less friendly and approachable than the Apple one. The same extends to their hardware:
You can see right through the UI, Microsoft squares off keyboard keys, input boxes, panels:
[VIDEO]
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt
The system font in OS X can be switched for either Helvetica Neue or Avenir. I'd hope for a 2D Dock again. The whole UI style can't translate over such as zooming in and out of icons because apps aren't all fullscreen but a lot of the same style can come over. I don't really like OS X's unevenly shaped app icons, the rounded rectangle icons are much more evenly spaced and cleaner looking. Dock icons get the same width anyway and it looks messy when icons with vastly different image widths are next to each other.
They already use the iOS 7 style transparency in the stacks panel. It blurs the content behind it. iOS 7 really took it from OS X.
More of a style unification should be expected:
http://bgr.com/2014/04/09/apple-ios-design-jony-ive/
"Greg Christie, a longtime Apple engineer who spearheaded the design of the iPhone’s slide-to-unlock feature, is apparently leaving Apple after repeated clashes with Apple senior vice president of design Jony Ive. 9to5Mac’s sources say that Christie’s departure as Apple’s human interface vice president means that Ive has now taken complete control over the design of iOS and that this represents a major shakeup to the iOS design team.
So what does this mean for the future of iOS design? Well, 9to5Mac’s sources say that Ive actually circumvented Christie during the iOS 7 design process, which means the changes that Apple made to its mobile operating system last year are definitely here to stay. 9to5Mac also says that this portends big changes for OS X, which “will be revamped with a flatter look that loses the textures that Christie utilized to make the iPhone the most popular gadget on the planet.”
So it looks like skeuomorphism is completely out at Apple and the flatness favored by Ive is in for the foreseeable future. It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming months."
Losing the slide to unlock was a large change. I quite liked the original slide to unlock and could have been made flatter but the new implementation has its benefits too.
In some ways, I think the whole desktop functionality needs a modern redesign, not just style. I wish there was a way to get rid of overlapping windows and menus without sacrificing the efficiency. Column view in the Finder is great but cluttered and wastes a lot of space. It would be nice to have a single window where columns are new views and everything just goes vertically but then there's the issue of having active contexts for commands and space for list views.
I don't think it can be done overnight. I suspect we'll see gradual changes with each iteration so that people become accustomed to any functional changes. One thing that would be nice is a control panel like in iOS to be able to play music without opening iTunes. It can read the iTunes library and playlists separately from iTunes and iTunes wouldn't need a minimized UI any more and the control panel would take over.
I wonder if the App Stores will converge too so that it's possible to buy an app for all 3 devices at once and sync them easily.
I couldn't agree more with everything you posted. Spot on.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
Numbers with 2 decimal points can be quite confusing.
Since when are you allowed to delete trailing digits in a whole number? I'd think it was clear that a system that can use two or more periods (as well as letters) are not using them as decimal points like in math but as simple separators; so I honestly don't understand why people have such a hard time with using a period as separator the way it's commonly used with phone numbers (800.555.1212) or dates (2014.04.18) but can't wrap their head around for it a version number. It boggles my mind even more that no one ever removes the trailing zero from the first ten but they want to remove it from the second ten.
I'm still confused. Isn't 10.10.1 fundamentally the same as 10.1.1, and 10.10.2 the same as 10.1.2? Either I am really missing something, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Would someone please explain how the numbers are different?
OK I'll take the bait. They aren't decimals, the dots are place separators. Always have been, always will be. OS number <dot> major version number <dot> minor update number.
We have spent some time here drilling this very obvious truth into people. So let's not revive this again. Please.
Edit : {Oops I see I was beaten to the annoyed response by Soli.)
I am expecting to hear that OS X is running on ARM in the redesigned MacBook using the A8 processor.
If that is true, I don't see that product coming out until the Fall.
There's absolutely no indication of apple doing any sort of tick/tock cycle in OS X whatsoever, besides you are clearly misapplying the term here.
I appreciate that you may be talking from a developer's perspective, but I don't share your denigration of iCloud. My experience of it for the past year has been excellent. It certainly had its share of bugs in the early days, but I find it very reliable now.
I agree. I don't think [@]wizard69[/@] knows just how much Mac OS X and iOS use iCloud for syncing and storage these days. I think it's quite impressive yet I still wish it did more.
I'm the exact opposite to you. If I see that an app has iCloud, then that is a selling point. In fact, I often will choose an app over similar ones because it has iCloud.
I have a finance app that uses iCloud, and it works flawlessly and quickly. No problem with core data sync there.
You seem to have a fundamental problem with the way iOS works. I get the feeling that you want to force the pc traditional layout onto it. Let it go.
You're quite correct; it's just a quirk of version numbering used in software. And I agree that it's silly and confusing.
I wonder whether 10.10 is definite, or whether there's a possibility it might be 11 or 13.
Pretty good post. I share your views on overhauling the whole design. I would like to see things gliding much more. The use of the Dissolve transition in iPhoto could be transferred to many things with pleasing effect. Smoother transitions everywhere, like reading. When jumping pages in Safari, for instance, I would much prefer a gentle dissolve rather than a scroll.
I think both the examples you cite are unclear. Using full stops in phone numbers and dates is confusing. We don't use them in England.
And the thrust of digital guy's complaint is sound. In maths, 10.1 is the same as 10.10 or 10.1000000, so it's not intuitive to go from 10.9 to 10.10, as you would always round it to 10.1.
Edit: to use a more accurate maths example, to go from 10.09 to 10.1. Or 10.9 to 11. No need for 11.0!
Looks as though they're finally bringing Preview to iOS. It's currently annoying that PDFs in iBooks don't sync via iCloud. Presumably, Preview will become the way to do it.
1) How are they unclear? If you saw those would you not recognize the one as a US phone number and the other as a date?
2) It's not sound because this is not math. There are always an infinite number of .0's at the end as noted by 10.9.2 having a .2 after 10.9. If this was math it would be impossible as there is a single period (or comma, depending on your country/culture) used to separate whole from fractional integers. Again, if this was math you couldn't have multiple periods — unless you reverse the period and comma usage which would then mean they are thousands separators — or use letters as oft seen in version numbers.
3) Can you honestly not tell why Adobe Flash's current version of 13.0.0.201 is not a legal value used in math or why the letters b for Beta or f for Final or simpy any incremental letter can't be used for software versioning.