Apple announces 7-for-1 stock split, buybacks bumped to $90 billion

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  • Reply 61 of 188
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    Does this mean we'll see less fluctuation in the stock as the mix of investors will change (away from institution and hedge fund)? I'm trying to understand Apple's rational behind this.

    It's a way to improve the stock value as TYPICALLY, when a company announces a stock split, it gets the investment community excited.

     

    Here's a little example on the upside of stock split.

     

    Pre stock split, if you owned 100 shares and the stock went up $1 a share, you would make $100.

    Post Stock Split, if you now owned 700 shares, and the stock went up $1 a share, you would make $700.  Hmmmm.  Obviously the downside would be equally as bad, but the psychological aspects of a stock split is usually for the positive and RARELY for the negative and the market is responding positively as the stock is up $49 a share in after hours trading, but the stock split hasn't taken effect. 

     

    They just ANNOUNCED the stock split, but if you look up the actual date it takes place, I think it might be in a month or so.  you'll have to look up the actual date it becomes effective.  I didn't listen to the conference call, but this is just how it is TYPICALLY done from EVERY stock split on any stock that I've own in the past.

     

    Now, when a stock is trading at $71 vs $500 a share, it's a LOT easier to go up $1 per share at this lower price.  Plus it pays a certain amount PER SHARE in dividends, so you'll make more in dividends if they continue to pay the same amount PER SHARE since you own more shares.    Since $500 is a LOT of money, only the institutions can afford it, at $71 a lot more individuals can now afford to buy some, so they kind of want to attract more working class people rather than just institutional buyers.

     

    Trust me, it's a VERY positive thing when a company does a stock split.  IBM used to do it CONSTANTLY during the 60's when mainframes were the big technology play and if you invested back in the beginning before and just hung onto the stock, you would end up VERY rich.  IBM was doing things like 10 for 1 stocks splits all of the time when I was first looking at the stock market.



    Now, Apple MIGHT move from Nasdaq to the DOW Jones, which for whatever reason some companies want to do, personally I could give a rip which board they trade on and that's something I still don't always think is better or worse, but they could be included in the DOW Jones average.  Some people look at stocks on different boards differently.  But I personally couldn't give a rip.  :-)

     

    I currently don't own any Apple stocks directly, however some of the mutual funds I own probably do.  I wish I had some extra cash to invest, especially if they are going to go after NEW markets.  That usually means they have identified new growing markets that will be additional revenue/profits, which SHOULD increase the stock value.

  • Reply 62 of 188
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member

    Never get in a argument with a pig, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw 

  • Reply 63 of 188
    bugsnwbugsnw Posts: 717member

    In theory, stock splits eventually settle and unless there are new growth prospects, the stock can languish at 1/7th the price before the split.

     

    However, there is psychology at work here. It's why penny stocks attract so many people. They figure, stocks go up $s every day, imagine buying a stock for pennies! People who loosely follow Apple will think that $75/share is a bargain. They've seen $700 before and are probably thinking they will make 10X their money soon, perhaps after the iWatch and iTV are introduced.

     

    People watch Apple and lament not getting in sooner. People feel richer after stock splits. It's hard to undo this psychology with statistics and charts. I think Apple is in an excellent position to ride this unexpectedly aggressive 7/1 split into stock market heaven. At the least, it will get a lot of media attention and the people who don't understand finance will try to jump in.

     

    People in the know say it makes no difference but this thread is awash with excitement. That is going to drive Apple up. The growth in earnings to follow will goose it further.

  • Reply 64 of 188
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member

    It has to do with option trading, With options the number of share per contract is 100.

     

    At the old price pr share you would have to  buy 100 * 525= 52'500 to buy or sell just one contract ( a PUT or a CALL)

     

    Now that he shares have split,  price has dropped to about $80 

    So we can sell puts ie  1 contract for $8000.00

    and then possibly own the share by expiration. This may cause the stock to trade up if many people start selling put options  and then stock will settle into the usual option trading patterns as the year progresses

    People who already own the stock can sell calls (covered calls) against the shares they already own and collect premium up front

     

    The whole shebang will make Apple stock much more efficient for income and trading purposes.

  • Reply 65 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

     

    In theory, stock splits eventually settle and unless there are new growth prospects, the stock can languish at 1/7th the price before the split.

     

    However, there is psychology at work here. It's why penny stocks attract so many people. They figure, stocks go up $s every day, imagine buying a stock for pennies! People who loosely follow Apple will think that $75/share is a bargain. They've seen $700 before and are probably thinking they will make 10X their money soon, perhaps after the iWatch and iTV are introduced.

     

    People watch Apple and lament not getting in sooner. People feel richer after stock splits. It's hard to undo this psychology with statistics and charts. I think Apple is in an excellent position to ride this unexpectedly aggressive 7/1 split into stock market heaven. At the least, it will get a lot of media attention and the people who don't understand finance will try to jump in.

     

    People in the know say it makes no difference but this thread is awash with excitement. That is going to drive Apple up. The growth in earnings to follow will goose it further.


     

    I love watching penny stocks reverse split. The stock leaps 5 to 10 times, depending on the reverse split. People jump in. The stock goes back to its pre-split price. Priceless... and pathetic.

  • Reply 66 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

     

    It has to do with option trading, With options the number of share per contract is 100.

     

    At the old price pr share you would have to  buy 100 * 525= 52'500 to buy or sell just one contract ( a PUT or a CALL)

     

    Now that he shares have split,  price has dropped to about $80 

    So we can sell puts ie  1 contract for $8000.00

    and then possibly own the share by expiration. This may cause the stock to trade up if many people start selling put options  and then stock will settle into the usual option trading patterns as the year progresses

    People who already own the stock can sell calls (covered calls) against the shares they already own and collect premium up front

     

    The whole shebang will make Apple stock much more efficient for income and trading purposes.


     

    I'd still like to hear Cook's reason for the split.

  • Reply 67 of 188
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,053member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    First of all, you have to actually read my comment. Then proceed from there.

     

    The headline says:  "Apple announces 7-for-1 stock split..."

     

    The article says: "granting each AAPL stock owner six shares for each share owned..."

     

    That is neither clear nor correct.

     

    It should say:  "granting each AAPL stock owner an additional six shares for each share owned..."

     

    There. Clear and correct.


     

     

    That's clear and correct from a shareholder perspective. But from Apple Inc. perspective, after issuing its shareholders 6 addition shares for each share they own, the total amount of AAPL stocks out there now 7X what it was before the split. So it's refer to as a 7 to 1 split. The "split" is as if the shareholder taking his share and splitting it into 7 pieces. With each piece only being 1/7 of it's valve before the split. And each piece is now considered a share. But rather than a shareholder tearing up his stock certificate into 7 pieces, Apple issues him 6 additional certificates. 

  • Reply 68 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

     

     

     

    That's clear and correct from a shareholder perspective. But from Apple Inc. perspective, after issuing its shareholders 6 addition shares for each share they own, the total amount of AAPL stocks out there now 7X what it was before the split. So it's refer to as a 7 to 1 split. The "split" is as if the shareholder taking his share and splitting it into 7 pieces. With each piece only being 1/7 of it's valve before the split. And each piece is now considered a share. But rather than a shareholder tearing up his stock certificate into 7 pieces, Apple issues him 6 additional certificates. 


     

    For fu*ks sake.

     

    Could some of you please read the damn comments before replying.

     

    Do you think for one minute that I don't know everything you are saying? Really?

     

    The headline said one thing and the article said another.

     

    Headline 7 for 1... Article 6 for 1.

     

    I was adding the necessary words to make the article correct... well, more correct.

     

    That is all I was saying.

     

    Oh boy.

  • Reply 69 of 188
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,040member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

    I'd still like to hear Cook's reason for the split.


    My guess is that he would paraphrase what is written on the Investor Relations FAQ:

     

    http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=2

     

    Quote:

    "We want Apple stock to be more accessible to a larger number of investors."


     

    Note that this phrase would indeed cover option trading as described by Paul94544. Of course, the phrase also includes bringing the price more accessible to retail traders, as well as making the stock a more likely candidate to be included in Dow Jones Industrial Average.

     

    The current high tech companies on the Dow 30 are: Cisco, IBM, Intel, Microsoft. Apple's market capitalization of $468 billion is about twenty billion more than the first three companies combined and larger than any other on the Dow 30. If Apple were elected to the Dow 30, it would be a required investment by some mutual funds, again making it more accessible to a larger number of investors.

  • Reply 70 of 188
    I thought that every time Tim Cook opened his mouth, the stock was supposed to plummet.

    I guess I need to think different.
  • Reply 71 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

     

    My guess is that he would paraphrase what is written on the Investor Relations FAQ.

     

    http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=2

     

     

    Note that this phrase would indeed cover option trading as described by Paul94544.


     

    I guess I could have been clearer... this time.

     

    I meant, why would Cook want the stock to be more accessible this year than last.

     

    One of the other members posted a reply from Apple Investor Relations saying that a stock split wasn't in the cards because it wasn't in Apple's best interest at the time. What changed?

  • Reply 72 of 188
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,040member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

    I guess I could have been clearer... this time.

     

    I meant, why would Cook want the stock to be more accessible this year than last.

     

    One of the other members posted a reply from Apple Investor Relations saying that a stock split wasn't in the cards because it wasn't in Apple's best interest at the time. What changed?


    The overall investment market changes. Things like interest rates, volatility of equity markets, price of precious metals, etc.

     

    The investment landscape in 2014 is vastly different than in 2010 or even 2012.

     

    Note that Apple itself has changed over the years. As mentioned elsewhere, Apple's value has increased twentyfold in the ten years of Oppenheimer as Apple's CFO. If you look at the company beyond the product line, it has changed vastly in many ways, not just its bank account, but how the company stands relative to the rest of the business world.

     

    Remember that Berkshire-Hathaway split its Class B shares 50-to-1 a number of years ago. The official line at the time was the the acquisition of Burlington Northern prompted the move.

     

    A well-managed thoughtful company's management team (and board of directors) will keep options open, for a confluence of events or a unique set of circumstances that present an opportunity for change.

     

    Maybe as a 22-year-old, you might say, "I do not anticipate purchasing a minivan in the foreseeable future" but then you get married and have three kids. Or maybe you decide that you'll start your own house call dog grooming service. Then, maybe the minivan isn't such a bad idea.

     

    The world isn't static, people and companies aren't static.

  • Reply 73 of 188
    A couple of us both wanted, and predicted these specific moves on Apple's part -- larger repurchase, increased dividend, stock split - - a few months ago! :D

    RIP, [B]jragosta[/B]! :\

    And, nice coda, Mr. Oppenheimer.
  • Reply 74 of 188
    It's a 7 for 1 split - one share becomes seven. In other words, if you had one share, you get six more.
  • Reply 75 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

     

    The overall investment market changes. Things like interest rates, volatility of equity markets, price of precious metals, etc.

     

    The investment landscape in 2014 is vastly different than in 2010 or even 2012.

     

    Note that Apple itself has changed over the years. As mentioned elsewhere, Apple's value has increased twentyfold in the ten years of Oppenheimer as Apple's CFO. If you look at the company beyond the product line, it has changed vastly in many ways, not just its bank account, but how the company stands relative to the rest of the business world.


     

    If I actually believed that a stock split would make a big difference then I too would mention everything that you have listed.

     

    I don't.

     

    ... and the year the member received the reply was 2012. That and this year are the only two years of concern to me, re: my comment.

     

    Plus... and not meaning to be rude or disrespectful, I do value the fact you replied in a civil manner... I would like to hear Mr. Cook's reason.

  • Reply 76 of 188
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,040member

    Again, the investment market landscape between 2012 and 2014 are vastly different.

     

    Anyhow, if you care about investing and corporate financials, I suggest you find the appropriate sources to learn more about the matter. Anonymous Q&A forums like AppleInsider is not the place to be doling out investment advice or the place to educate the masses on fundamentals.

     

    Especially when the forum participants don't even understand what a 7-to-1 stock split is and start bickering about how six shares given to one owned is not a 7-to-1 split.

     

    Again, I'm pretty certain that Tim Cook would just parrot what was posted to the Apple Investor Relations website. It's a pretty typical corporate statement about a stock split and it is accurate. Feel free to send Tim or Apple Investor Relations an e-mail though.

     

    Good luck.

  • Reply 77 of 188
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

     

     

    Nothing happens particularly interesting. You get 7 times your shares at 1/7th of the price... so back to where you started.

     

    Arguably pointless. Some people think it makes the shares more affordable, but in reality the number of people who buy single shares is a small fraction of the market.


     

    Right, but it makes it MUCH easier to do manage your investment and schedule incremental buys when the share price isn't sky high.  Have $1000 invest and the share price is $560?  Guess you buy one share and stash the rest somewhere else.  With shares around $100 it's just easier to right-size your purchases and sales.  In the bad old days commissions were higher and it made sense to let the price go outrageously high; now that justification is basically gone.  And as others have pointed out, now it'll be easier to reinvest dividends.  Currently you have to own hundreds of thousands of dollars of AAPL stock to buy one lousy share with the quarterly dividend.

  • Reply 78 of 188
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    drblank wrote: »
    What are you talking about?


    I don't think you understand how this works.

    Apple issues a stock split, so all EXISTING share holders get 7 shares for each 1 share they own, but the stock price per share goes down accordingly so shareholders STILL have the same dollar amount.  What stocks splits do is that it spurts more buy order than sell orders, which effectively pushes up the price per share.   More buyers than sellers means increase in stock price. More sellers than buyers means lower stock price.  After the stock split takes place, then more people should be attracted to buying the stock because it's more affordable and since it pays decent dividends, it doesn't take that long to make some money off the stock even if the stock doesn't go up in share value, because Apple hands you some cash or increases the amount of shares you own every month.  Many people opt for dividend reinvestment.

    Now, what Apple also announced is the ability to buy back up to $90 BILLION shares.  Is Apple going to do that today?  NO. They will do that if the stock goes down and creates a buying opportunity.  It's actually contradictory, but it's how they can help keep the value of the stock in a range that makes sense.

    You might want to take a course in investments or at least get a good, easy to read book on stock investments, they explain a lot of the fundamentals of this sort of concept of stock splits, dividends, dividend reinvestment, stock buybacks, etc.  

    So how long until Apple reaches it's peak of $700 per current share, again?

    That is the "magic" number.

    As Samsung slumps further out of the high end Apple will be there, still at the top, raking off the cream.

    43.7 million is a hell of a lot of "tiny screened" smartphones.
  • Reply 79 of 188
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

     

    The dividend payout is mid-May. The stock split is in early June. The $3.29 share dividend will have already been dispersed to shareholders. If you don't have shares of AAPL at the end of day on May 12th, you don't get the upcoming dividend payout.

     

    The next time Apple announces quarterly results, they'll say what the dividend will be. Assuming they stick with the same rate (2.5%), the new quarterly dividend would be about one-seventh of the upcoming payout. Let's say post-split AAPL is trading at $80 in mid-June; the new quarterly dividend payout would likely be around $0.50 per share.


    Well its hard to say , it really depends on if we now get $1 strike pricing and what price the options will cost. I for one will be checking the option prices tomorrow when the market open to see if there is any premium to be had, because now I have 6 times as many shares as I did before. So I hope to make some "rent" on the position I own which I could not do before.

  • Reply 80 of 188
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member

    which means sell on May 13th

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