Google's issuance of Class C stock did not create any new votes, nor did it remove any votes from the owners of the Class A stock (who received the newly issued Class C shares on a one for one basis). The voice of the shareholders is just as diluted or concentrated as it was before the issuance. If someone sells their Class A shares and keeps their Class C shares, their voice will disappear, obviously (but then it will be owned by another person, so no real change in the "voice of shareholders").
I am still not bought into this whole Stock split, it just dilutes the value. I know the big guys are buying in now to get the dividend as well as getting in on the split and they will dump shares after the split. But look at google after the split, it just been coming down, in spite of all the positive news, (burying the bad news) it can not fight the decline due to the dilution. Also, with the stock price being so low after the split and the fact the market is still looking for new ways to create negative spin it just make shorting the stock a lot easier.
The only way I see apple pricing going above $100 post split in the next 12 months is if the have killer new products to offer. beyond that, it is looking like a slow grow stock to me.
Facebook had a good quarter yet their stock is still taking a beating. I find it slightly amusing that all these tech stocks are getting hammered today but both Apple and Microsoft are way up.
It's odd about Facebook. I know why Apple is up, and why Microsoft is up but I don't know why Facebook is down, though I know why Twitter is down.
I'll never understand why Blackberry is up.
And Amazon should continue going down. It's only worth about $50.
I am still not bought into this whole Stock split, it just dilutes the value. I know the big guys are buying in now to get the dividend as well as getting in on the split and they will dump shares after the split. But look at google after the split, it just been coming down, in spite of all the positive news, (burying the bad news) it can not fight the decline due to the dilution. Also, with the stock price being so low after the split and the fact the market is still looking for new ways to create negative spin it just make shorting the stock a lot easier.
The only way I see apple pricing going above $100 post split in the next 12 months is if the have killer new products to offer. beyond that, it is looking like a slow grow stock to me.
I think it's worth while to consider Apple as not just a typical company splitting its stock. Apple has an army of rabid fans who would buy the stock if they could afford to do so. My son just asked me if he could buy a share of Apple after the stock split news came out. I told him the transaction costs would put a real dent in any profits he might get from buying 1 share. $9.99 at Etrade fee to buy and another $9.99 to sell means his Apple stock needs to rise to $120 from $100 (for example) just to break even. He wants to do it anyways.. just so he can say he owns the stock. I've never heard of someone saying that about Caterpillar's stock. My son is the extreme case... but I'm sure there are quite a large number of casual investors who have been put off by Apple's current stock price. These potential investors are also less likely to abandon the stock when the news starts becoming negative (whether it's based on reality or not).
It's also worth noting that this will actually hurt more intermediate investors. I for one will be paying more fees for buying and selling Apple options. There's a per contract cost in addition to a base fee and now I'll have to buy 7x the number of contracts to get the same amount of capital working as I do now.
Facebook's stock price was at $70 a few weeks ago.
Then they reported earnings of 9 cents a share. NINE CENTS A SHARE.
If I invest $70 in something I certainly want more than NINE CENTS PROFIT!!!
IMO these ridiculously valued stocks are finally getting their valuation corrected.
The market is moving from Growth stocks to Value stocks. Which is great for Apple investors.
You can't go by earnings per share without having other information. How many shares are there? How big is the company? What are sales, etc. Facebook had a very good quarter. Above expectations.
I am curious why would think big boys care about the split, it makes zero difference mathematically. Same with the 'dilute argument, it makes no difference to anything. As many have said it only makes a psychological and affordability per share issue and they are real benefits to many small scale buyers. Anecdotally, I already know of a several folks about to but a share each for grandchildren since it is now 'affordable' to this when you have a few grandkids.
As to you not seeing it go over $100 post split in the next 12 months ... care to wager on that?
Right. One of the main reasons for this split is so small traders can be into the 100 share buy/sell number. That's a standard order size. There are reasons why one would prefer to work with that size, or even multiples thereof.
A lessor reason is that it makes it possible for Apple to get included in the DOW, though I'm not a fan of the useless Dow.
Well Apple's stock was vastly under-valued and beat-down for the past 24 months, most of it by mere speculation and rumor intelligence by the bloggers. During this crape-hanging period, Apple produced huge revenue and profits despite the naysayers. It seems that the Street finally took notice of both the good margins and earnings and the stock is now taking on a value that more correctly reflects its value. I believe that the Street is also aware of the positive potential for new Apple products, revenue streams, an increasing China consumption market and a new VP of retail.
It's odd about Facebook. I know why Apple is up, and why Microsoft is up but I don't know why Facebook is down, though I know why Twitter is down.
I'll never understand why Blackberry is up.
And Amazon should continue going down. It's only worth about $50.
Yes I am amazed at how much leeway Jeff Bezos is given, Amazon is a 17-year-old company yet the Wall Street "analysts" keep excusing away no profits saying profits will come when Amazon is done investing. But how many years have they even saying this now? 10 years from now they'll probably be saying the same thing.
1) I don't know what defines "killer" in your eyes but I bought a new iPhone, iPad mini and 15" MBP in 2013 because they were "killer" products to me. I suspect I'll be buying a "killer" new iPhone this year and quite possibly be buying a "killer" new MBP in 12 months (although perhaps a little longer depending on when 2nd cycle of updates occur, or if they change the casing design). This is all without even considering a new product category which they likely won't even announce unless it's "killer" which I think is coming to a head with their push for more and more R&D.
2) Without the split that would be $700 per share. You don't really think that with Apple's amazing revenue, profits (which are higher than Google's revenue), buybacks, and all all their annual product releases that it would be impossible to go up $100 per share? I think it's easily possible considering it was below $500 (down $100) back in January/February of this year. That's not too long ago.
Agreed. Coming up later this year will be three new 4.7" (assuming that's what the size will be) 64GB iPhones for us, as well as two full size 128GB, cell and GPS enabled iPads.
Next year will be two more iPads, a Mac Pro, and possibly something else.
I'm not alone in this.
Oh, I almost forgot...I know a lot of people buying iPhones. More than a few have, as a result, and the continued use of my iPad, bought their own iPads, and some are now buying new computers, from guess which company? I've got several of my friends saying that they went with Apple and; "I'm loving it!".
Yes I am amazed at how much leeway Jeff Bezos is given, Amazon is a 17-year-old company yet the Wall Street "analysts" keep excusing away no profits saying profits will come when Amazon is done investing. But how many years have they even saying this now? 10 years from now they'll probably be saying the same thing.
If you don't learn history, you are doomed to repeat other's mistakes. You aren't the first to make this incorrect comment. Jobs ok'd a stock split in 2005. I was the happy recipient of that.
More people are slowly starting to question their vaporware, the the lack of hardware profit.
While I've argued about this on other sites, I believe very strongly that a lot of what Google does is for the publicity. Other things are just weird mistakes. As with Microsoft, hardware ain't their thing.
Agreed. Coming up later this year will be three new 4.7" (assuming that's what the size will be) 64GB iPhones for us, as well as two full size 128GB, cell and GPS enabled iPads.
Next year will be two more iPads, a Mac Pro, and possibly something else.
I'm not alone in this.
Oh, I almost forgot...I know a lot of people buying iPhones. More than a few have, as a result, and the continued use of my iPad, bought their own iPads, and some are now buying new computers, from guess which company? I've got several of my friends saying that they went with Apple and; "I'm loving it!".
1) Speaking of 128GB iPhones I hope this is the year we get a doubling of the capacities at the current price points but I wonder if that will happen when they are re-releasing an 8GB iPhone in some markets.
2) Unlike some people I don't think the Mac is going anywhere. I agree with Jobs "trucks v cars" analogy and expect that the Mac will slowly grow in a yeay basis (and quickly grow if they can get around $800 for a notebook).
I think it's worth while to consider Apple as not just a typical company splitting its stock. Apple has an army of rabid fans who would buy the stock if they could afford to do so. My son just asked me if he could buy a share of Apple after the stock split news came out. I told him the transaction costs would put a real dent in any profits he might get from buying 1 share. $9.99 at Etrade fee to buy and another $9.99 to sell means his Apple stock needs to rise to $120 from $100 (for example) just to break even. He wants to do it anyways.. just so he can say he owns the stock. I've never heard of someone saying that about Caterpillar's stock. My son is the extreme case... but I'm sure there are quite a large number of casual investors who have been put off by Apple's current stock price. These potential investors are also less likely to abandon the stock when the news starts becoming negative (whether it's based on reality or not).
It's also worth noting that this will actually hurt more intermediate investors. I for one will be paying more fees for buying and selling Apple options. There's a per contract cost in addition to a base fee and now I'll have to buy 7x the number of contracts to get the same amount of capital working as I do now.
Use a service such as Scotttrade. They charge $10 or less per trade. I use them for most of my trading these days, and have my big investment accounts elsewhere.
Yes I am amazed at how much leeway Jeff Bezos is given, Amazon is a 17-year-old company yet the Wall Street "analysts" keep excusing away no profits saying profits will come when Amazon is done investing. But how many years have they even saying this now? 10 years from now they'll probably be saying the same thing.
Lord, it's maddening. I'm on a number of financial and investment sites, and I constantly bring this up when we're discussing them. I just do t get it. I admit that Bezos is a very smart guy, to deny that would be stupid.
But even very smart guys make mistakes. Heck, Jobs made more than a few. But Bezos's concept for the company was incorrect almost from the beginning. From the first holiday sales season after they began to get known, when they failed to ship enought product, in fact. After that, his plan for the company fell apart when they realized they needed to open warehouses and shipment centers. That was never the plan.
But Bezos promises Wall Street that big profits are just around the corner. But they aren't, and it's very unlikely they will ever be. The business model for the company that they must now follow won't allow it, and he just keeps digging the hole deeper every time his Apple envy has him coming out with another hardware product.
I buy a lot of stuff from them, but investing, even though it's been good up till now, if you got in fairly early, is a big risk. At some point, which we could be entering now, it's going to fall apart. Just one really bad quarter, and bam!
USA a service such as Scotttrade. They charge $10 or less per trade. I use them for most of my trading these days, and have my big investment accounts elsewhere.
That's for just stocks.
Scott trade costs $4.95 per trade plus $0.65 per options contract. So lets say I buy 500 call options... that means I need to pay $4.95+$325 now. After the split I'll be buying 3500 call options and will pay $4.95+$2275. Ouch....
1) Speaking of 128GB iPhones I hope this is the year we get a doubling of the capacities at the current price points but I wonder if that will happen when they are re-releasing an 8GB iPhone in some markets.
2) Unlike some people I don't think the Mac is going anywhere. I agree with Jobs "trucks v cars" analogy and expect that the Mac will slowly grow in a yeay basis (and quickly grow if they can get around $800 for a notebook).
One reason why Apple went up $43 the other day was because of surprising strength in Mac sales. I should say, continuing strength, pushing against falling Windows PC sales.and with that strength was a rise in MSRP of $20, while everyone else's is falling.
Scott trade costs $4.95 per trade plus $0.65 per options contract. So lets say I buy 500 call options... that means I need to pay $4.95+$325 now. After the split I'll be buying 3500 call options and will pay $4.95+$2275. Ouch....
We were taking about Apple stock, weren't we? Straight buys?
Comments
Google's issuance of Class C stock did not create any new votes, nor did it remove any votes from the owners of the Class A stock (who received the newly issued Class C shares on a one for one basis). The voice of the shareholders is just as diluted or concentrated as it was before the issuance. If someone sells their Class A shares and keeps their Class C shares, their voice will disappear, obviously (but then it will be owned by another person, so no real change in the "voice of shareholders").
In time GOOG (non voting) will decrease in value.
It doesn't dilute the value.
It's odd about Facebook. I know why Apple is up, and why Microsoft is up but I don't know why Facebook is down, though I know why Twitter is down.
I'll never understand why Blackberry is up.
And Amazon should continue going down. It's only worth about $50.
I am still not bought into this whole Stock split, it just dilutes the value. I know the big guys are buying in now to get the dividend as well as getting in on the split and they will dump shares after the split. But look at google after the split, it just been coming down, in spite of all the positive news, (burying the bad news) it can not fight the decline due to the dilution. Also, with the stock price being so low after the split and the fact the market is still looking for new ways to create negative spin it just make shorting the stock a lot easier.
The only way I see apple pricing going above $100 post split in the next 12 months is if the have killer new products to offer. beyond that, it is looking like a slow grow stock to me.
I think it's worth while to consider Apple as not just a typical company splitting its stock. Apple has an army of rabid fans who would buy the stock if they could afford to do so. My son just asked me if he could buy a share of Apple after the stock split news came out. I told him the transaction costs would put a real dent in any profits he might get from buying 1 share. $9.99 at Etrade fee to buy and another $9.99 to sell means his Apple stock needs to rise to $120 from $100 (for example) just to break even. He wants to do it anyways.. just so he can say he owns the stock. I've never heard of someone saying that about Caterpillar's stock. My son is the extreme case... but I'm sure there are quite a large number of casual investors who have been put off by Apple's current stock price. These potential investors are also less likely to abandon the stock when the news starts becoming negative (whether it's based on reality or not).
It's also worth noting that this will actually hurt more intermediate investors. I for one will be paying more fees for buying and selling Apple options. There's a per contract cost in addition to a base fee and now I'll have to buy 7x the number of contracts to get the same amount of capital working as I do now.
You can't go by earnings per share without having other information. How many shares are there? How big is the company? What are sales, etc. Facebook had a very good quarter. Above expectations.
Right. One of the main reasons for this split is so small traders can be into the 100 share buy/sell number. That's a standard order size. There are reasons why one would prefer to work with that size, or even multiples thereof.
A lessor reason is that it makes it possible for Apple to get included in the DOW, though I'm not a fan of the useless Dow.
Agreed. Coming up later this year will be three new 4.7" (assuming that's what the size will be) 64GB iPhones for us, as well as two full size 128GB, cell and GPS enabled iPads.
Next year will be two more iPads, a Mac Pro, and possibly something else.
I'm not alone in this.
Oh, I almost forgot...I know a lot of people buying iPhones. More than a few have, as a result, and the continued use of my iPad, bought their own iPads, and some are now buying new computers, from guess which company? I've got several of my friends saying that they went with Apple and; "I'm loving it!".
I agree but leave Amazon alone, I'm an addict
If you don't learn history, you are doomed to repeat other's mistakes. You aren't the first to make this incorrect comment. Jobs ok'd a stock split in 2005. I was the happy recipient of that.
While I've argued about this on other sites, I believe very strongly that a lot of what Google does is for the publicity. Other things are just weird mistakes. As with Microsoft, hardware ain't their thing.
1) Speaking of 128GB iPhones I hope this is the year we get a doubling of the capacities at the current price points but I wonder if that will happen when they are re-releasing an 8GB iPhone in some markets.
2) Unlike some people I don't think the Mac is going anywhere. I agree with Jobs "trucks v cars" analogy and expect that the Mac will slowly grow in a yeay basis (and quickly grow if they can get around $800 for a notebook).
Use a service such as Scotttrade. They charge $10 or less per trade. I use them for most of my trading these days, and have my big investment accounts elsewhere.
Lord, it's maddening. I'm on a number of financial and investment sites, and I constantly bring this up when we're discussing them. I just do t get it. I admit that Bezos is a very smart guy, to deny that would be stupid.
But even very smart guys make mistakes. Heck, Jobs made more than a few. But Bezos's concept for the company was incorrect almost from the beginning. From the first holiday sales season after they began to get known, when they failed to ship enought product, in fact. After that, his plan for the company fell apart when they realized they needed to open warehouses and shipment centers. That was never the plan.
But Bezos promises Wall Street that big profits are just around the corner. But they aren't, and it's very unlikely they will ever be. The business model for the company that they must now follow won't allow it, and he just keeps digging the hole deeper every time his Apple envy has him coming out with another hardware product.
I buy a lot of stuff from them, but investing, even though it's been good up till now, if you got in fairly early, is a big risk. At some point, which we could be entering now, it's going to fall apart. Just one really bad quarter, and bam!
USA a service such as Scotttrade. They charge $10 or less per trade. I use them for most of my trading these days, and have my big investment accounts elsewhere.
That's for just stocks.
Scott trade costs $4.95 per trade plus $0.65 per options contract. So lets say I buy 500 call options... that means I need to pay $4.95+$325 now. After the split I'll be buying 3500 call options and will pay $4.95+$2275. Ouch....
One reason why Apple went up $43 the other day was because of surprising strength in Mac sales. I should say, continuing strength, pushing against falling Windows PC sales.and with that strength was a rise in MSRP of $20, while everyone else's is falling.
We were taking about Apple stock, weren't we? Straight buys?